Vergennes, VT
Does anyone have an accurate list of pin make/model/and production numbers? I realize its hard to get accurate numbers on machines that are still in production.
Thanks
Blake
(Topic ID: 214001)
Quoted from TheLaw:Do a search for "Stern production numbers."
There are a few threads on it already
Old games are easily doing here and on ipdb
yea ive used a few past thread leads but am looking for something all encompassing. ill browse again though as i may have missed something more recent. agreed older models are easy to come by.
thanks
blake
Quoted from Blake:Does anyone have an accurate list of pin make/model/and production numbers?
Gottlieb was about the only company I can think of that kept good track and released these numbers publicly. You can find them on ipdb.org.
With all the other companies, it's kind of hit and miss.
Quoted from o-din:Gottlieb was about the only company I can think of that kept good track and released these numbers publicly. You can find them on ipdb.org.
With all the other companies, it's kind of hit and miss.
that would make sense from a lot of what ive seen. they seem to be the most consistent sets.
thanks
blake
I think Data East and Sega also released numbers for most of their games, but I kind of consider them part of Stern as a whole.
Quoted from Blake:Does anyone have an accurate list of pin make/model/and production numbers? I realize its hard to get accurate numbers on machines that are still in production.
Other than the LE's, Stern doesn't release that information to the public, so any guess about the production numbers on a modern game would be mostly speculation.
If you look under your your playfield along the left side (stern) there is a white sticker with a number on it. That is what number game you have. Kinda gives an idea.
Quoted from chad:If you look under your your playfield along the left side (stern) there is a white sticker with a number on it.
I can't find that sticker anywhere on my Stars.
Do you think maybe it fell off?
Quoted from chad:If you look under your your playfield along the left side (stern) there is a white sticker with a number on it. That is what number game you have. Kinda gives an idea.
I've read that there number system has been shown to jump from segment to segment so I'm not sure that is all that accurate in the end result unless piecing each set together.
Thanks
blake
This is one of the better arguments as to why Stern will not release numbers. Given by cottonM4.
"If Stern sold a boat load and talked about it then competitors would spring from the wood work wanting a piece of the action. Misery loves company so if sales were weak suppliers might back away or anyone who was thinking of buying would start having 2nd thoughts and sales could fall off of a cliff.
And Stern is a private company. That is the "none of your business" model someone spoke about. "
thanks
blake
I wouldn't release production numbers either. The less info the government has available to them, the better off you are come tax time.
Quoted from o-din:I wouldn't release production numbers either. The less info the government has available to them, the better off you are come tax time.
this too. One thing is for sure you can have a very successful business that looks very average on paper.
Thanks
Blake
Is the general communal consensus that the industry as a whole is growing, in a 15, 10, 5 year analysis? I think its tough when you have to look at a bunch of newer companies that may have produced less then 5 pin models total. But I'm thinking that in that case its more about how many additional manufacturers you have coming to the table than machines being produced? Again I may be wrong. As for stern I would think there is a very strong title output that you could collaborate with a timeline and get a good idea.
thanks
Blake
I would look at the pinball serial number database. It estimates production runs based on serial numbers.
Quoted from Blake:This is one of the better arguments as to why Stern will not release numbers. Given by cottonM4.
"If Stern sold a boat load and talked about it then competitors would spring from the wood work wanting a piece of the action. Misery loves company so if sales were weak suppliers might back away or anyone who was thinking of buying would start having 2nd thoughts and sales could fall off of a cliff.
And Stern is a private company. That is the "none of your business" model someone spoke about. "
thanks
blake
Quoted from Blake:Is the general communal consensus that the industry as a whole is growing, in a 15, 10, 5 year analysis? I think its tough when you have to look at a bunch of newer companies that may have produced less then 5 pin models total. But I'm thinking that in that case its more about how many additional manufacturers you have coming to the table than machines being produced? Again I may be wrong. As for stern I would think there is a very strong title output that you could collaborate with a timeline and get a good idea.
thanks
Blake
A number of competitors have tried exactly that over the last ten years of this so called pinball revival and most (with the exception of those who have deep pockets or realistic sales targets) have either failed miserably or resigned themselves to production runs of a few hundred for a title in total.
FWIW as I have no definitive proof, but I don't believe the sales figures and buyer pool for Stern (or the market for NIB in general) are quite as impressive as some like to think (hope?).
Stern does a lot of small sporadic production runs of repeat title multiples quite regularly which are advertised extensively prior to the wider pinball community. That can lead to the perception that they are churning out thousands of units at a time when in reality it is based off an order for 50-100 units from an 800 pound gorilla customer and Stern then puts the word out to boost the numbers and make it worth their while putting the title back on the line.
What they are doing well is making a very healthy profit on a per unit basis through cost cutting on lower end Pro units and the overinflated perception of added value LE marketing strategy.
As long as Hagerty Peterson keep getting a yearly return increase on their investment there really is no reason for them to deviate from that.
Quoted from pinsanity:A number of competitors have tried exactly that over the last ten years of this so called pinball revival and most (with the exception of those who have deep pockets or realistic sales targets) have either failed miserably or resigned themselves to production runs of a few hundred for a title in total.
FWIW as I have no definitive proof, but I don't believe the sales figures and buyer pool for Stern (or the market for NIB in general) are quite as impressive as some like to think (hope?).
Stern does a lot of small sporadic production runs of repeat title multiples quite regularly which are advertised extensively prior to the wider pinball community. That can lead to the perception that they are churning out thousands of units at a time when in reality it is based off an order for 50-100 units from an 800 pound gorilla customer and Stern then puts the word out to boost the numbers and make it worth their while putting the title back on the line.
What they are doing well is making a very healthy profit on a per unit basis through cost cutting on lower end Pro units and the overinflated perception of added value LE marketing strategy.
As long as Hagerty Peterson keep getting a yearly return increase on their investment there really is no reason for them to deviate from that.
there are some very good thoughts here and some that i think don't necessarily spell doom to the hobby or business of producing these machines but simply means that the largest and, most would say most successful pin producer has just adapted its business strategies to the newer times.
thanks for sharing
blake
Quoted from o-din:I can't find that sticker anywhere on my Stars.
Do you think maybe it fell off?
Only the newer games have them. Forgot to mention that.
Quoted from Blake:As for stern I would think there is a very strong title output that you could collaborate [collate?] with a timeline and get a good idea.
Bear in mind that Stern Pinball has built up their business in accessories and collateral products greatly over the past 3 years. The count of machines produced is just one component of their growth. Also, they do contract manufacturing of games for other "manufacturers" of coin-op machines, though I suspect that part of the business has shrunk.
.................David Marston
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