(Topic ID: 207486)

Problems with Stargate Upper Flipper

By BlakeBowden

6 years ago


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  • 58 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by zacaj
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#4 6 years ago

Can you post some pictures of the way it's wired in currently? And a picture of the lower right flipper for reference. They should be wired basically the same.

#6 6 years ago

Both of those coils seem to be wired up correctly per the schematics. The important thing to note is the band on the diode. It needs to go towards the 48VDC (black-purple-purple). The side without the band should go through the flipper switches (black-green-green) on the cabinet and then to ground. Your wire looks fine.

Quoted from BlakeBowden:- have continuity between the two wires attached to the switch leafs.

Do you still have continuity if you disconnect one of the two wires going between the EOS switch and the coil? Sometimes the new EOS switches come with a slight coating from the factory, or aren't adjusted quite right so that they close properly. If there isn't good continuity across them, then the flipper won't work well. Checking for continuity with the EOS switch still connected to the coil can give a false positive as there can be continuity through the coil as well as through the switch.

Also, check the resistance of your new coil, make sure there's a reading between each pair of lugs.

#8 6 years ago
Quoted from Benhurr:

On maintenance method you had to check 1st where the power comes...on the A3 driver board (attached pictures of my stargate burned last week)
Find the transistor who active the right upper flipper, test one you are sure it works for knowing values...for testing a soldered transistor you had to test continuity between each legs and on both side because it works like a diode inside...you might have all same value on all transistor. Also have burned transistor without any proof of it at first look. Many burns but not until I shunt all ground wires.

Flippers aren't controlled by transistors on system 3

#15 6 years ago
Quoted from BlakeBowden:

Kyle5574, what do you mean by the terminal on the “banded side of diode”. The diode on my coil seems to be in the middle. Which lug would this be on my coil? Thanks for your patience.

The diode connects to the outer lugs, it just happens to go over the middle one

#18 6 years ago
Quoted from BlakeBowden:

Kyle5574. So which side of my diode? Is the “band” the black thing in the middle or something else? Again, thanks for helping me understand this.

The band is the smaller white stripe on the left side of the diode. So the left lug needs to go to the 45V, and the right lug needs to go to ground/the cabinet button.

#20 6 years ago

Try running a wire from the black-green wire on the upper flipper to the black-orange wire on the lower flipper

#22 6 years ago

Running the wire would cut out any possible problems with the flipper button switch, the wiring, connectors, etc, between the flipper and ground. We know there's voltage coming in, so that side must be good, and I don't see anything wrong with the wiring of the coil itself, so I want to rule out the ground side. Since the lower flipper works we know its ground side is good, so just connect them together to test. If it still doesn't work, then there's still some problem with the coil/eos/wiring.

Quoted from BlakeBowden:I’ve seen this flipper working before I rebuilt it. I rebuilt it and replaced coil because it kept blowing fuse.

You also said it worked after you rebuilt it until you replaced the bat, so I'm not 100% sure we can narrow the problem down to the rebuild.

Quoted from BlakeBowden:To clarify my testing of continuity on switch leafs, I tested without the switch being connected to the coil

But the switch was installed?

I'm also a bit concerned about how the voltage+continuity readings for the coil keep changing. Are you doing anything differently?

#24 6 years ago
Quoted from BlakeBowden:

Regarding different continuity readings. When I was getting continuity on only 2 lugs, the coil was not wired in. I got continuity on all 3 lugs after wiring it up. Assume that’s why I got 2 different results.
Not sure about differences in voltage. I got a slightly higher reading when I was only getting voltage on the one “incoming power lug” but not on other 2. When I was getting the lower reading on all 3 lugs, none of them were soldered. Not sure if that matters. Could be MM operator on my part.
I had the whole rebuilt flipper soldered in when I first noticed the issue (guessing this is a rookie mistake). I am a self- proclaimed novice with soldering. Had to desolder to start diagnosing CURRENT issue.
Now I’m operating under the premise that the only stupid question is the one that you fail to ask. Is it critical to get ALL the solder off each lug? Feel free to look at last pic of my new coil.
Will let you know how wire test goes this evening.
Appreciate your efforts!

Old solder should be fine

#28 6 years ago

Looks like you're on AC not DC if I'm reading that ~ right

#31 6 years ago

Immediately when you flip, or when you start a game, or?

#34 6 years ago

Are you sure you've still got the power and ground wires connected to the right sides of the coils?

#36 6 years ago

What's the resistance between the two outer lugs while it's wired up?

#43 6 years ago
Quoted from BlakeBowden:

Zacaj, resistance between two outer lugs is .3

Is this with the red lead of the MM on the banded side of the diode or the non-banded? (test it on the banded side if not)

#48 6 years ago
Quoted from BlakeBowden:

zacaj,
with machine off. Resistance between the two lugs on the banded side of the diode is .2. What's the purpose of this particular test? I'm trying to understand the process of diagnosing these types of issues.

Sorry, typed that last post out in a hurry. To elaborate:

fuses blow because there's a short. Current is going straight from the 45V to ground with nothing in between (like a coil) to stop it. If the coil was bad and shorted internally, this would cause a short, and you could usually detect it by measuring the resistance of the coil. A reading of around 0.5 ohms or less is usually bad. Another problem could be if the diode was blown. Usually the diode's job is to keep voltage from going in the banded end and out the other. If the diode had failed and shorted internally, then the 45V attached to the banded end would just go straight through (bypassing the coil), and cause a short. Normally you can just use the diode test on your MM to verify if a diode is good, just like you can use the resistance reading to check if the coil is good, but in this case stuff gets weird because you've got a diode and a coil in parallel; they can affect each other's readings.

Now, your coil being shorted isn't too likely since it's new, but sometimes even new coils are bad. One thing that is common though is that, if you wire the coil in backwards, then the 45V will be connected to the non-banded side of the diode, and will be able to freely flow through it. So much current going through the diode will often blow the diode before it blows the fuse, so even if you realize your error and flip the wiring around, now your diode is shorted so you just keep blowing fuses.

Now, the way the resistance test works on your meter is that it sends some voltage out of the red lead, through whatever you've got it hooked to, and then it comes back in the black lead. So, if you try to measure the resistance of the coil, but you put your red lead on the non-banded side of the diode, then that test voltage will go straight through the diode (bypassing the coil), and you'll get a very low reading (like you did) even though everything could be fine. However, if you put the red lead on the banded side of the diode (and the black lead on the non-banded side), the voltage shouldn't be able to go through the diode, and you can usually get a better reading.

Even then, however, sometime you can get weird readings. The one 100% reliable way to test the coil is with the diode clipped off. At that point, if you measure the resistance across the outer lugs, you should get a reading of a few ohms (while the EOS switch is attached and closed) and 30+ ohms (if the EOS switch is detached or open).

While you've got the diode clipped off, it's a good opportunity to test the diode too. Usually, since I've already removed the diode, I just throw it away and attach a new one since it's sometime hard to clip them nicely and reattach them.

#50 6 years ago
Quoted from BlakeBowden:

2. In my case, there is a short because either my coil is bad or my diode is bad which blowing my fuse.

99% of the time yes. There could be some other issue in the wiring but it's rare

Quoted from BlakeBowden:

2. How hard is it to replace a diode? Do you solder it in?

Just clip the old one off and solder a new on in where it was. You'll want a 1n4004 or 1n4007.

#52 6 years ago
Quoted from BlakeBowden:

Zacaj, so can the capacitor figure into the capacitor on the switch be part of my issue? Or is this unrelated?

At worst, the capacitor could blow and short itself internally, but then it'd just be like the eos was always closed. Your flipper would still work, but your coil would melt after a while. It should be safe to disconnect it while testing.

1 week later
#54 6 years ago

Reading amperage isnt that useful here. Voltage and resistance are what you want. If you want confirmation of how you're reading, we'll need to see where you've got the leads as well

#56 6 years ago

The hold winding should be that high, that's normal. 0.7 actually seems a bit low by comparison. For that flipper it should be around 3-4 ohms. Unless the EOS was closed then, in which case you're measuring the EOS, not the coil. Need to hold open EOS to get a good reading.

#58 6 years ago
Quoted from BlakeBowden:

Removed eos wires. 3.7 ohms between lug 2 and 3. Assuming I’m measuring it right. Getting continuity.
Getting 200 ohms between other lugs. No continuity.
Does this suggest flipper is good? If so, what is likely the cause of flipper not working?
Thanks

That sounds good, coil seems fine

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