For Sterns, it depends on what gameplay they cut out of the pro. Some people prefer the pro's simply due to whatever was cut out may not have actually added that much to the game, or made it clunky/slow.

For the other manufacturers, it is cosmetic - there may be an oddball exception to this though, but I'm not aware of any.

Depends on the machine, depends a bit on personal preference, but the thing most will agree on is almost all the pros are really good and play great. Usually you get your 2k worth I'm a premium, but the pros play very similar - sometimes even better, just missing some toys or a modified shot.

Rush for instance - great game, and plays almost identical either way. Mando I actually prefer pro (not a huge fan either way, YMMV). GZ premiums is awesome and the toys are worth the money by a mile, but I had a pro for 6m before upgrading and it was absolutely awesome.

I can’t speak for all Stern games within recent years, but I’ll use my Rush Premium as an example. Playfield operation only, not discussing cab art.

Pro: didn’t have a close enough experience to an LE, had things removed, that I enjoy with the game. VUK, integrated drum clock, moving ramp. To some, not major components to jump from Pro to Premium, in my opinion it does add to the overall experience.

LE: Top of the line, all the bells and whistles, full playfield, expression lights kit.

Premium: Great middle price range, you get the full playfield experience as an LE. Big differences vs LE is cosmetics. Different art package, no side armor, no expression lights kit(though LZ light kits work for it).

I love my Premium and feel no need to step up to an LE. I’ve installed the LZ lights into mine, and love the overall experience of the machine.

Regarding the machines you mentioned, that’ll have to be info from those owners.

GOTG Pro is a lot of game for the money. The move to the Premium is nearly 100% cosmetic as the game play is identical. Can’t say that about all games.

Stern LEs are waste of monies for me; but I'm not rich.
Buying games due to diff'rent art or backglass is like the weirdest thing in the world to me; so that doesn't matter.

Some premiums are worth it, some aren't (SR games for me are better as pros). I used to only buy pros but when I ran out of room I moved up to Premiums.

JJP models used to be basically the same, but they've changed recently and gone the Stern route. They're new at it though so you end up getting somehtin liek the base model GNR which is pretty pathetic.

I used by by all LE's 8/10 years ago.... But then agin they were around 6500/6800.

Here's how I see them:

Pro: cheapest, typically play the fastest due to fewest toys/mechs, and not as many thrills)upgrades. Fewer mechs typically means less time under the playfield, however.

Premium: Middle priced, includes all toys/mechs/upgrades
For me, this is the sweet spot.

Limited edition: most expensive, the most limited (so you typically have to be on a list to have any chance at getting one), very small upgrades over the premium (typically a special backglass, numbered, signed, etc). They do often go up the most in value as well.

Premiums are my choice. I would have to absolutely LOVE the art package to change and go with the LE, because it will be 2000-3000 more. Mechs are worth that jump, but not the art package, for me.

There are VERY few pros I would consider worth it. Metallica is the only one I can truly say I don't mind the pro instead of the premium.

For me Met, twd, sw, got, gotg, xmen, tf, bksor...off the top.
Most of those I rather have the pro.

Premiums give you all the features (ball locks) but typically slow play down as a result.
If you like faster games and want to save a few bucks go pro.
Modern Elwin and Borg games don’t compromise much on shots at all with their pros.

LEs used to make a kind of sense; you could almost always sell them at any point for what you paid if not more. Makes for low risk if you don't like it, or even had a financial need down the road. Lotta folks on distro lists move one LE they aren't in love with to fund the next.

With the Bond price jump, not sure that's viable going forward though. Bond is grail for me, so I sucked it up and ordered an LE...Hard sell at practically the price of two pros, even when you're crazy for the theme (and the LE does look sweet). The widening pro/premium price gap makes it harder to justify the premium on some games too. I had a Rush premium for a while and loved it, may have another - but if there's three grand dif I'll probably pick up a pro if I do.

If you like stuck balls and stuff breaking you GOTTA go premium!

Ive only bought NIB twice. Met and JP (stern).

Met - I didn't know enough at the time, bought a pro because it's literally how much money fell in my lap from an inheritance and I was interested anyways. After playing a premium, I'm glad I went pro. Ball lock - hammer obstructs view, snake mouth I honestly find annoying AF. I do wish the cross rose outta the PF on the pro..only feature I miss.

JP. Had to go premium because IMO the moving dino head made the game. Happy with that buy as well.

LE - I'd personally never waste the money for different art and a signature.

Far more to le than art and signature. Backglass instead of translight, shaker, art blades, invisiglass, foil cabinet on gz, expression lights on rush and zepp, and much better resale. I own all models, pro, prem and le, and as long as I can buy at msrp, I'll continue to buy le games

The Rush LE is the absolutely amazing with the expression lights and other incredible bells too. I’ve always gone premium prior to this as but like everyone says it’s personal preference.

I put some time in on a Rush today and I have to admit, I like it better each time I play it.

Rush sucks ass. Sold it faster than $10 ass in TJ

We have a saying around my place

“Pro is the way to go!”

That’s the case with 95% of Sterns. A lot of the “extras” they put on the pros to charge more money (and get a waaaay bigger profit margin) as Premiums/LEs make the game worse.

I’m looking at you,
- Walking Dead Lift up ramp
- tiny Aerosmith upper playfield
- huge GOT upper playfield
- silly forks on SW getaway hyperloop
- ball lamely going across the backboard on different models
- huge hands on GOTG blocking view of the shots
Etc etc etc

Hey! Just my opinion. YMMV.

rd

Nobody can tell you whether it's worth it for you except you.

I went Premium with my Rush game. Main reason is that I liked the extra mechanicals: ramp, VUK, and lane behind the drops. The other stuff in the LE didn't really appeal to me. In hindsight, maybe the premium sound would've been nice, but I wound up upgrading my Premium sound anyway, for a lot less than the Premium-LE price differential would be. The Expression Lighting? I've yet to see anyone explain why it's so great; when I'm playing the game, the last thing I'm looking at is any auxiliary lighting effects.

I think the LE also comes with a shaker motor. After upgrading to an external subwoofer, I am 100% sure that I don't need a shaker motor. The rumble of the bass gives me everthing I need in that department. And the cabinet art? Please. Some people love it, but frankly my favorite backglass is the Pro backglass, with the Premium a close second, and I prefer the cabinet art for the Premium. Not only is the LE art my least favorite, I actively dislike it. It barely says "Rush" to me at all, way too focused on a single moment in their storied history.

But most of that is subjective. Opinions are like, well...you know...everyone's got one. The only opinion that matters is yours. At the end of the day, any pinball machine is better than no pinball machine. You can't play a pinball machine you don't have. If your budget can accommodate the more expensive models and they have stuff you would enjoy, go ahead and get one. If you really want the machine but can't fit the higher end models in your budget? Don't sweat it. You'll have lots of fun with the Pro.

And if you find you've made a mistake and you don't enjoy it after all, just resell the machine. Over the long haul who knows what will happen with prices, but so far resales of relatively new machines seem to bring in about what the original buyer paid, if not more. It's a pretty risk-free affair as far as that goes.

Agreed

Wasted and inheritance says it all. Your experience is unique to most pinheads. Met premium is obviously a better machine.

If LEs were available for MSRP (and I liked the art), I would buy the LE. For machines that I keep (for decades), the extra cost is negligible.

I've never understood these arguments. So for $6k - $7k+ for a pro what are we paying for? $1k per orbit, $2k for a ramp? Ok maybe $1.5k for each plastic ramp. Sure a pro will play faster compared to premiums / LE's but that's only because there's barely anything in them...At these prices that's not a good thing.

Bring on the toys and mechs! Those are the items that add to immersion and fun factor IMO. Would TZ be as well regarded without it's upper playfield and gumball machine? How about MM without the castle? Same goes for LOTR without the ring shot and balrog. No, no, and no! Again bring on the toys and mechs!

Just to add, pro's are still a lot of fun to play.

Sth and GZ premium all day...

Sure when you make up stuff like that the argument sounds reasonable. When you factor in dumb Groot arms or TWD crossbow instead if the Powerfield & Castle....not so much. Game by game.

Exactly.

You gotta compare apples with apples ….

Godzilla pro still has a building. It just doesn’t go up and down. I’m happy with that. Rules and gameplay is almost identical.

Metallica pro still has a captive ball lock. Just that’s it’s virtual and the ball doesn’t go under the playfield. I have the LE (because they used to be pretty cheap back then!) but honestly I would totally be happy with the pro.

rd

Yeah those Groot arms on the premium do seem pretty worthless, really odd design choice.

If you look at a lot of pins over the last 6-7 years, and look at it from a design aspect, you can see a lot of stuff is just “how can we make this look like “more” so we can charge more”.

Add in $100-$200 of stuff (at their bulk buying cost) then charge $2000 more. “Look! It has huge Groot hands!!”

It’s really as simple as that. The hands are a perfect case. Take off those and it’s almost the same game as the pro. And the pro was thousands cheaper.

rd

And it doesn't always work; SR is the perfect example. Upper PF on BKSOR? Good lord how boring. Upper PF on GOT? Don't think the game needs it and I like the shots on pro better. etc

The whole tier approach is awful in my opinion. Its simply a way for pinball manufacturers to motivate higher prices.

I would love if they stopped this silliness and kept doing what manufacturers did before 2000, one title - one version, simple as that. I realize they won't change back (because money) but one can always dream.

Another silly thing is the tier naming. Calling the "basic/standard" version Pro is simply an attempt to make it sound better than it is. Premium should be named Pro. If they called them Standard, Pro and CE/LE that would at least make more sense.

If one have to choose in this tier hell, I would agree the premium is often the sweetspot between (high) price and features.

Standard, premium, and LE. Then maybe CE as a different animal. Not that I want 4 tiers. It just makes more sense to me this way.

Going back to 1 model now is so hard. The decision on which model to have as the 1 model, whichever one you pick you'll be alienating a portion of the market

RobF now has the Rising Cross Mod you desire for your Met Pro !

Yeah those are good points. The actual extra mechanical features Stern puts into premiums / LE’s are cool, I like them, but there’s always limitations in regards to how much they are used. This is due to Stern creating code that is nearly identical rules wise across all models. I remember owning AC/DC premium and for years people asked Stern for more code for the mini playfield. “Create a mini wizard mode that uses the main and mini playfield at the same time” people asked. It never came as Stern really limits the differences between pro and premium / rule sets.

The upper playfield in GOT and BKSOR could have been far more interesting if Stern had created more code to take advantage of those items. Instead premium features from Stern are usually just a more elaborate way of doing the same action on a pro.

Screw the tier system. The "Premium" was the baseline for games up to ACDC .... then Stern found a way to strip features out, charge the same as they used to and called it the "Pro"....

They then jacked the price up on the "baseline" that we had all known for decades so you get to pay more for the same game you've known and give it a fancy word like "Premium".

Then they catered to the crowd that needs "special snowflake" machines with the LE and charged even more for a back glass, a Xerox copied certificate and a signature.

Played this community like a jukebox at Waffle House.

What they really need to do is charge Pro prices for the Premium and get rid of the Pro. Or better yet, just do all LEs and charge the Pro price!

It's true the tiered approach isn't likely to be popular with consumers. It's not designed for them. It's a standard economic practice across pretty much all non-commodity consumer goods now, which manufacturers use to maximize profit. It's Business 101, and allows manufacturers to capture the most sales across all segments of the buying market. The practice is designed to benefit the manufacturers, not the consumers.

People need to stop worrying about the tiers. Recognize that there's only one tier designed for your economic segment, and decide whether you would like to stay in that segment, or (if you are not already in the lowest-cost segment) if you would like to take advantage of the lower prices that a lower-cost segment is enjoying and go with that version instead.

People definitely need to not waste effort railing against tiered goods. That's not going away, and there are easy ways to avoid worrying about it.

In most cases (i.e. for most manufactured goods), I go with the lowest-cost segment that is "good enough". In some cases, the very lowest-cost segment is missing a lot of features, and the next segment up doesn't cost very much, making it a good value. But in the majority of cases, the lowest-cost segment performs completely adequately, and the increase in price to the next segments costs a lot more than it should, making it a poor value.

For most manufactured goods, the cost/value proposition is clear. For pinball, it's more fuzzy because it's strictly an entertainment device and can't be judged on objective things like processing power, how much built-in RAM and storage it has, how many miles to the gallon it gets, how much weight it can support, etc. So you have to apply subjective criteria, and it really makes no sense to ask other people about their subjective criteria, because the criteria are subjective, which by definition means someone else's criteria may not be the same as your own. Just because I enjoy the extra mechanicals enough to justify an extra $2500 or so in cost, that doesn't mean that's the right choice for someone else. Just because I think the non-mechanical upgrades aren't worth another $2500 or so in cost, doesn't mean those upgrades aren't the right choice for someone else.

"Know thyself and to thine own self be true" (to mix a couple of famous bits of advice )

Pros are good for pinball for two reasons:

1. They are better for operators, hands down. Fun experience, faster ROI, much less maintenance. They keep more pinball in the wild, which is good for pinball. There's a reason you see tons of stern pros and older games for every Premium or JJP you run into.

2. They allow a lower entry point for home users. I mean, at today's prices the barrier may be too high as is, but if the only way to get your first new game was to pay 10k+ for a premium or JJP, that still cuts a lot more people out.

Stern is trying to make money, not sell to you as cheap as possible because they're good guys, but they aren't idiots - there's a limit, and if they push prices too high they'll ultimately make less. They raised pros $100 for next year - regardless of how absurd you think 7k is for a pro, 7k will absolutely not make as much PROFIT as 6.9k did last year. They're making it up by making more on the premiums and LEs, and as long as they keep making really good pros that push the hobby forward, I'm down with subsidizing Pros if I want the bells and whistles, and am fortunate enough to be able to afford them.

I have 4 Sterns in my collection and they consist of 2 Pros, a Premium and an LE and I love them all the same. I don't look at the Pros as lesser games and would be just as happy if they were all Pros vs all LE's. There may be games where I slightly prefer one version over another which usually comes down to a minor feature or art package but overall they are all a lot of fun to play. Going forward I'm only a Pro buyer because the prices of Premiums and LE's have gotten outrageous. The LE and Premium in my collection were bought for around what a Pro costs today.

There’s no answer. You have to do your homework on the difference in the models and use your judgement to decide what you want, what is worth to you. Every person’s calculation on that is unique. For me, I value features and gameplay, the more the better, so generally I stop at premium. Because I don’t value shiny extras that don’t affect the gameplay. And that’s what LEs offer beyond the premium.

Premium with all the features minus extra eye candy special armor, autographs etc.

I would add IMDN and JP I got a billion on location on these recently and could not remember which version I was playing . I think AC/DC is the only must have premium