(Topic ID: 329849)

pro-football draining ball count on reset

By vipertblck

1 year ago


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#1 1 year ago

thought the game was fixed, but now on 2 different occasions when i fired it up and hit the game reset button, it resets and zero's out the reels, light up ball 1 and shoot the ball without me hitting the flipper button. then with the ball on the playfield it acts as if it's drained and fires the outhole coil and sinks to ball 2. will do this to ball 2 or ball 3 in play and then stop itself, all while the actual ball 1 is still rolling on the playfield. seems to get better and fix it self after it plays and warms up ??

#2 1 year ago

may have spoke too soon. upon inspection the outhole switch was vibrating when a ball was shot, thus enabling a contact acting as if the ball was drained. adjusted this and well see how it pans out

#3 1 year ago

We need to know what the Add Ball Count Unit (P) relay and the Ball Return Control (Q) relay are doing when this happens. Becasue this is an intermittent problem, hook up a light bulb tester to the coil on each one.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/reading-gottlieb-schematics#post-2634425
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/em-pinball-circuits-basics-to-not-so-basic/page/2#post-3184715
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/make-yourself-a-bulb-tester

#4 1 year ago
Quoted from HowardR:

We need to know what the Add Ball Count Unit (P) relay and the Ball Return Control (Q) relay are doing when this happens. Becasue this is an intermittent problem, hook up a light bulb tester to the coil on each one.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/reading-gottlieb-schematics#post-2634425
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/em-pinball-circuits-basics-to-not-so-basic/page/2#post-3184715
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/make-yourself-a-bulb-tester

thank you! if adjusting the outhole switch doesn't fix it, i'll try your suggestions. hooking up a light to those coils is basically just showing if the coils are firing or not......correct?

#5 1 year ago
Quoted from vipertblck:

hooking up a light to those coils is basically just showing if the coils are firing or not......correct?

Correct!!

#6 1 year ago

where can i find bulbs that will handle this voltage? all the bulbs for playfield or head that i have laying around at 6V

#7 1 year ago

looks like during a game reset, the P and Q coils cycle as needed and then once it resets and ready to shoot ball 1, P is let out (non-energized) and Q is held in (energized). once the ball is shot to the playfield, Q lets out (nonenergized). playing with things it seems that anytime the outhole switch is closed, the Q coil is energized. ill messs with it some more and watch these coils and hopefully it'll act up and i can see what those 2 coils are doing then. don't have the correct voltage light to make up a bulb tester.

#8 1 year ago

Auto part stores sell 12V bulbs. Folks put 2 of them together in series so they can handle 25V.

#9 1 year ago

ok; it acted up. seems it only does it after it sits and "cools down". once you play it a few times of shooting the ball; it's fine. anyway, the P & Q relays ARE moving when it's draining balls on balls in play, and shooting the eject coil(while the first shot ball is still rolling around on the playfield). i realize i could make the bulb tester to watch this as well; but all im going to see with that is the bulbs lighting up; which i can see the relays are energizing in and out during this occurance.

also notice that the when a ball is drained, the P & Q relay will pull in (energize) and P will release once the ball in play advances..

#10 1 year ago

P coil stays energized when this happens. turned game on, hit credit button to start a new game, went through it's reset sequence and never released P coil. it stayed energized and it shot out ball 1, advanced to ball 2 and fired eject coil, advanced ball 3 and fired eject coil, advanced ball 4 and fired eject coil and then finally stopped. all happening while the original ball 1 as out rolling on the playfield

#11 1 year ago
Quoted from vipertblck:

P coil stays energized when this happens

Good information so far. What about the Ball Return Control (Q) relay?

#12 1 year ago

it all happens so quick, but it looks like Q is released (non-energized) while it's happening and P, as well as O are held in (energized).

it's like a machine gun (but a bit slower), ball is shot and it just starts moving the "balls in play" on the head. every ball advance as shown on the head, every fire of the outhole coil. ball advance, outhole coil fire, so on so on.

#13 1 year ago

If the Add Ball Count Unit (P) relay sometimes stays locked on while the Ball Return Control (Q) relay isn't, check that this Motor 2B switch is opening when it should.

For a switch to work 3 things are necessary:
1) When open, there should be a small space between the contact points (duh)
2) When closing, the long blade's contact point should push the short blade's contact point enough to move the short blade
3) The contact points should be clean, which they usually will be if #2 is happening

pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png
#14 1 year ago
Quoted from HowardR:

If the Add Ball Count Unit (P) relay sometimes stays locked on while the Ball Return Control (Q) relay isn't, check that this Motor 2B switch is opening when it should.
For a switch to work 3 things are necessary:
1) When open, there should be a small space between the contact points (duh)
2) When closing, the long blade's contact point should push the short blade's contact point enough to move the short blade
3) The contact points should be clean, which they usually will be if #2 is happening
[quoted image]

checked things out and yes sir; switch 2B with the black/yellow wire is operating as it should. even put a meter on it and checked continuity. all is good and the switch opens when the post on the cam wheel comes around and raises them up for a second.

what about motor the Q switch? theres a white/green and white/blue switch, which i found and it's closed. it's open when the Q relay is energized...

#15 1 year ago
Quoted from vipertblck:

what about motor the Q switch? theres a white/green and white/blue switch, which i found and it's closed. it's open when the Q relay is energized

That's the opposite of how the switch on the Ball Return Control (Q) relay with a White-Green wire on one terminal and a White-Blue wire on the other terminal should act. It should be open (blocking electricity flow) when Q is relaxed and closed (conducting electricity flow) when Q is energized. As another check to verify you have the right switch, put a piece of paper in the switch and P should never activate.

#16 1 year ago
Quoted from HowardR:

That's the opposite of how the switch on the Ball Return Control (Q) relay with a White-Green wire on one terminal and a White-Blue wire on the other terminal should act. It should be open (blocking electricity flow) when Q is relaxed and closed (conducting electricity flow) when Q is energized. As another check to verify you have the right switch, put a piece of paper in the switch and P should never activate.

yup; had the wrong switch. the one we're referring to is working correctly and is opened when the relay is non energized. still have P being energized and holding, just advancing the ball in play and firing the outhole coil...

#17 1 year ago

the yellow/blue going to the P coil was touching the other terminal (black). although insulated with the cloth...maybe the current was somehow transfering to the other coils leg allowing the coil to stay energized? it's a shot in the dark but i moved it away from it anyway, i'm at a loss here!

#18 1 year ago

Noticing cam switch 2B is arcing when it’s opening. Meaning I can see the spark on that switch. Could that be enough that it’s holding current and tue switch needs to be cleaned a bit more?

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