(Topic ID: 202534)

Pricing of Classic Bally & Stern Machines

By too-many-pins

6 years ago


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  • Latest reply 6 years ago by rufessor
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    #1 6 years ago

    Just curious where realistic prices stand on Classic Bally & Stern Machines. Are prices trending up or down - how well are these machines selling these days - do they sell better as projects (cheaper) or as fully working machines for more money - etc?

    I have several of these in very nice cosmetic condition I am considering selling at Allentown this Spring and I am trying to figure out how best to sell them and if it is the "right time" to be selling them. I can't do much with them before Spring due to the way I have stuff packed into storage & our basement so this isn't a post wanting to sell these right now. I am just trying to decide what goes next once we start selling off more machines in the Spring.

    THANKS!

    #2 6 years ago

    The earlier classic stern MPU-100 games are about even with comparable early classic Bally games. The MPU-200 games probably go for around 30-40% more on the open market than what classic bally games go for (either projects or working). But, it still depends upon the title--several are desirable (quicksilver, seawitch, etc), but a few are just average (meteor, galaxy).

    #3 6 years ago

    I’ve had the Bally “Class of ‘81” and sold them to pursue my lineup of Classic Sterns. ForceFlow’s right on the money. Meteor, Lightning, Stars, Galaxy, Wild Fyre, Drac, brings average ($1500 for a nice example), NB, SW, DF, Ali and Catacomb more (about $2500-$3500), QS and SG whatever one is willing to pay (top tier @ $5k+) and the rest (F2K, O1, BG, Viper, Cheetah), hard to say—I’ve seen them all over the place.

    #4 6 years ago

    It seems like the more expensive NIB games get, the more desirable the classic games get, in turn raising their cost. It's no secret anymore that classic Bally's and Stern's are some of the best playing pins ever made. They are gonna continue to go up. Collector examples already go for big money.

    #5 6 years ago

    A few of the titles I am considering selling will likely include: Silverball Mania, Six Million Dollar Man, Strikes & Spares, Globetrotters, Mr & Mrs Pac-Man, Dracula, and Magic. I think there are also a couple others I am forgetting - nothing high powered but most are better than average condition to super nice.

    Size of our collection and our interest have changed over the years and we are thinking of trying to get down to about a dozen machines from over 40 so a ton of stuff might need to go. I never worried about prices much but now that I am considering selling some of the machines I purchased with the intent to keep I need to worry a little more about what they are worth because I overpaid for some of them thinking it didn't matter because they we machines that wouldn't be getting sold. When buying machines for resale I try to be sure not to overpay for them but when buying for the collection I tend to overpay for titles I think are staying if they are in nice cosmetic condition.

    Thanks for any help!

    #6 6 years ago

    Bump for the Sunday night crowd

    #7 6 years ago
    Quoted from too-many-pins:

    A few of the titles I am considering selling will likely include: Silverball Mania, Six Million Dollar Man, Strikes & Spares, Globetrotters, Mr & Mrs Pac-Man, Dracula, and Magic. I think there are also a couple others I am forgetting - nothing high powered but most are better than average condition to super nice.

    I'd say SBM and HGT are trending up, the others are not.

    #8 6 years ago
    Quoted from too-many-pins:

    A few of the titles I am considering selling will likely include: Silverball Mania, Six Million Dollar Man, Strikes & Spares, Globetrotters, Mr & Mrs Pac-Man, Dracula, and Magic. I think there are also a couple others I am forgetting - nothing high powered but most are better than average condition to super nice.
    Size of our collection and our interest have changed over the years and we are thinking of trying to get down to about a dozen machines from over 40 so a ton of stuff might need to go. I never worried about prices much but now that I am considering selling some of the machines I purchased with the intent to keep I need to worry a little more about what they are worth because I overpaid for some of them thinking it didn't matter because they we machines that wouldn't be getting sold. When buying machines for resale I try to be sure not to overpay for them but when buying for the collection I tend to overpay for titles I think are staying if they are in nice cosmetic condition.
    Thanks for any help!

    Honestly, all the onesyou are looking to sell are less desirable. Harlem and magic a bit more than the others, but overall just not the popular ones. Prices will really depend on condition but if priced accordingly they will sell.

    #9 6 years ago

    Yeah I sold a Seawitch recently that was in good condition for $2,850.. I've got another that is nicer that I'll be listing soon for around the same if anyone is interested.

    #10 6 years ago

    Maybe I should sell my Seawitch

    #11 6 years ago
    Quoted from patrickvc:

    Maybe I should sell my Seawitch

    That is a title in big demand. Third most sought after classic Stern for sure.

    #12 6 years ago

    Who is paying those prices, though? I saw a Seawitch at a show 2 years ago for around $1500 and it didn't sell. It was in good shape--probably 8/10.

    #13 6 years ago
    Quoted from pinlawyer:

    I’ve had the Bally “Class of ‘81” and sold them to pursue my lineup of Classic Sterns. ForceFlow’s right on the money. Meteor, Lightning, Stars, Galaxy, Wild Fyre, Drac, brings average ($1500 for a nice example), NB, SW, DF, Ali and Catacomb more (about $2500-$3500), QS and SG whatever one is willing to pay (top tier @ $5k+) and the rest (F2K, O1, BG, Viper, Cheetah), hard to say—I’ve seen them all over the place.

    I think pinlawyer is spot on from what I've seen lately..

    #14 6 years ago

    Yeah I could NEVER get those prices out of the those titles.
    Meteor, Lightning, Stars, Wild Fyre, Silverball Mania are all $600 if I'm lucky. S+S, Ali, Harlem Globetrotters are only slightly more like $6-$700. Catacomb was like $1000 in nicely shopped out working 100% and all new lamps sockets and even then the guy spent 2-3 hours here debating weather to buy it or not and finally he did for like $850 just to make him go away with it.
    I think for the most part collectors don't pay those huge prices because they figure they can find it else where's cheaper so the real money has to be coming from first time purchasers that know nothing about buying and selling pinball machines and they see a Ali on Ebay that someone is ASKING $4000 for and then they see a local guy trying to sell one for $1500 and they think "that's a steal and if we don't like it we can sell it on Ebay for $4000 because that's what it's really worth".

    John

    #15 6 years ago
    Quoted from Dayhuff:

    Yeah I could NEVER get those prices out of the those titles.
    Meteor, Lightning, Stars, Wild Fyre, Silverball Mania are all $600 if I'm lucky. S+S, Ali, Harlem Globetrotters are only slightly more like $6-$700. Catacomb was like $1000 in nicely shopped out working 100% and all new lamps sockets and even then the guy spent 2-3 hours here debating weather to buy it or not and finally he did for like $850 just to make him go away with it.
    I think for the most part collectors don't pay those huge prices because they figure they can find it else where's cheaper so the real money has to be coming from first time purchasers that know nothing about buying and selling pinball machines and they see a Ali on Ebay that someone is ASKING $4000 for and then they see a local guy trying to sell one for $1500 and they think "that's a steal and if we don't like it we can sell it on Ebay for $4000 because that's what it's really worth".
    John

    John is still on planet earth. They're definitely trending up and we just sold a bunch of huo documented Bally's for a ton but if they are not exceptional condition they're not garnering near the dollar amounts.

    By exceptional I mean little to no playfield or cabinet wear, no cupped inserts, little to no planking, no backglass issues. Mechanical issues can be there because these are the easiest to fix games ever.

    #16 6 years ago
    Quoted from nikpinball:

    John is still on planet earth. They're definitely trending up and we just sold a bunch of huo documented Bally's for a ton but if they are not exceptional condition they're not garnering near the dollar amounts.
    By exceptional I mean little to no playfield or cabinet wear, no cupped inserts, little to no planking, no backglass issues. Mechanical issues can be there because these are the easiest to fix games ever.

    You can usually get top dollar for games in mint condition.

    Some of the high prices I'm seeing quoted for average examples seem a little out there. If Seawitch was really fetching $2800, I probably would have decided to sell it already.

    #17 6 years ago

    Pretty sure seawitch is sub 1500. Aside from super nic condition ones being more...

    #18 6 years ago
    Quoted from pinlawyer:

    I’ve had the Bally “Class of ‘81” and sold them to pursue my lineup of Classic Sterns. ForceFlow’s right on the money. Meteor, Lightning, Stars, Galaxy, Wild Fyre, Drac, brings average ($1500 for a nice example), NB, SW, DF, Ali and Catacomb more (about $2500-$3500), QS and SG whatever one is willing to pay (top tier @ $5k+) and the rest (F2K, O1, BG, Viper, Cheetah), hard to say—I’ve seen them all over the place.

    Maby at retail prices but on the open market these prices are way over what I've seen in the last year. Could be your location but around PA they won't move for those prices.

    #19 6 years ago

    Honestly the best way to price games is to search archived classified ads on pinside for the title you are seeking. Look at the unsold and amount of days. Look at the sold and the prices they sold for of it is unknown then the list price vs. Amount of days listed. We've had about 80-100 games or so rotated/sold out of the parlor this year and that's what we do, sometimes we take a loss sometimes we make some scratch. I really believe price checks are for newbies and games that can't be found in the archives within the last year. And other rarities.

    In your case we sold 2 Harlem globetrotters this year 1 for like 700 with alot of wear 1 for 1200 that was descent.

    #20 6 years ago

    What I find hard with the more common Classic Bally machines like Silverball Mania, Strikes & Spares, Six Million Dollar Man, etc is sales history and "recent prices" seem to be all over the place. Cosmetic condition seems to be the key with these machines yet exceptionally nice ones don't seem to sell as well as you would expect (even for just a couple hundred more than players grade machines) and I have a hard time wrapping my head around that.

    Using Strikes & Spares for example - players condition working it seems like a $600 machine (give or take $100) however one in near mint original condition typically will not sell for over about $900. Yet some people are willing to pay over $1000 for a backglass & playfield to make one nice? Logic would tell me an exceptionally nice original should be worth something in the $1200 to $1400 range (or more) yet it is rare to find someone wanting to pay $900 for a nice original?

    Some machines seem easy to understand pricing on but the more common Classic Bally & Stern machines seem harder to gauge prices on (in my eyes) than something like a High Speed, Pin-Bot, F-14 etc.

    I know something is only worth what someone is willing to pay but how do CPR & other vendors sell playfields & backglasses for these titles if a machine with a new backglass & playfield isn't worth much more than the cost of that backglass & playdfield?

    #21 6 years ago

    There's also the nostalgia factor and some people wanting the nicest example they can possibly get no matter the cost. That tends to throw off the usual market prices a bit.

    #22 6 years ago

    When putting in a CPR field and glass you can usually expect to lose some money on your purchase if you resell and probably all of your labor. Many of us pay more to have CPR fields reworked and it's usually because we love the game, enjoy the restoration journey, want a game nobody else has played.

    There's also alot of difference between a CPR field game and a really nice example.

    #23 6 years ago

    i cant get more than $600 Canadian for a decent wildfyre. i have had several.

    #24 6 years ago
    Quoted from too-many-pins:

    Logic would tell me an exceptionally nice original should be worth something in the $1200 to $1400 range (or more) yet it is rare to find someone wanting to pay $900 for a nice original?

    I think Strikes and Spares is a bad example of this "phenomena" . I've seen a lot of pristine original ones. They aren't that hard to come by. I think that is what causes this title to max out in the $1K range in excellent original condition. Moreover, it's one of those early solid states that plays a lot like an EM ... it has that going against it (to the younger collectors at least ... I love the "seems like an EM, but isn't" feel that those early Ballys have despite being 44).

    Also, people are told to think that everything has to be replaced with stuff like new boards, LED displays, etc. since Bally's are "unreliable" due to battery corrosion. The thing is that if the seller (assuming they're asking top buck) addresses the electronics (like they should), the original system is as reliable as any aftermarket system out there. That is not true, but people seem to think that way. Replacing all of the electrolytic caps, the rectifiers, and insuring battery acid never returns (if it had in the first place) will make an original Bally/Stern system fairly bulletproof.

    Finally, people get spoiled by looking at new pins as well as pins with CPR playfields installed. If you look at an S&S with a CPR playfield right next to a clean original, things like the natural yellowing of PF lacquer stand out ... many people dislike that.

    Now, having said all of that, an original Strikes and Spares, over the long haul, is going to be worth a heck of a lot more than a CPRed S&S with new electronics. The problem is that you'll have to hold onto it for a while . The hobby seems to be in a "don't care" mode when it comes to originality. Like anything else, that will more than likely change. I personally don't care much about original so long as the repro looks virtually identical. However, I do feel myself getting more and more fussy about that as the years march on .

    #25 6 years ago
    Quoted from megadeth2600:

    Finally, people get spoiled by looking at new pins as well as pins with CPR playfields installed. If you look at an S&S with a CPR playfield right next to a clean original, things like the natural yellowing of PF lacquer stand out ... many people dislike that.
    Now, having said all of that, an original Strikes and Spares, over the long haul, is going to be worth a heck of a lot more than a CPRed S&S with new electronics. The problem is that you'll have to hold onto it for a while . The hobby seems to be in a "don't care" mode when it comes to originality. Like anything else, that will more than likely change. I personally don't care much about original so long as the repro looks virtually identical. However, I do feel myself getting more and more fussy about that as the years march on .

    I think you hit the nail on the head with pinball people - for some reason (unlike car people) they don't seem to care about repro verses original and almost seem to prefer restored machines over a nice original survivor. Since I grew up heavily involved with the Lionel train & car hobbies I just can't understand why pinball machines are different. To me a nice original machine should be worth 25% more than a fully restored machine yet a lot of people will send a nice original to someone like HEP to get it restored?

    Anyway - keep the thoughts coming. As with a lot of my post I love to hear all sides of the story. When it comes to buying & selling machines I have a good idea what I am willing to pay and what I need to sell one for but I love to hear input from others just to hear what they think & why.

    #26 6 years ago
    Quoted from too-many-pins:

    I think you hit the nail on the head with pinball people - for some reason (unlike car people) they don't seem to care about repro verses original and almost seem to prefer restored machines over a nice original survivor. Since I grew up heavily involved with the Lionel train & car hobbies I just can't understand why pinball machines are different. To me a nice original machine should be worth 25% more than a fully restored machine yet a lot of people will send a nice original to someone like HEP to get it restored?
    Anyway - keep the thoughts coming. As with a lot of my post I love to hear all sides of the story. When it comes to buying & selling machines I have a good idea what I am willing to pay and what I need to sell one for but I love to hear input from others just to hear what they think & why.

    I agree. Early Bally SS games are my favorite and I've been buying, fixing and reselling a few for 17 years. I would much prefer a "survivor" with OE boards, PF & BG. If the boards are upgraded with new header pins, caps and a memory cap on the MPU plus all new connector pins, they are reliable. I would prefer a game with a nice original PF over a repro or a overlay. 25% more for a nice OE playfield, easily. In my experience the early Bally's SS fall into at least 3 category's in pricing. "A" list Fathom, Centaur & A - EBD. "B" list Medusa, Xenon, Kiss, Playboy, Flash Gordon, Evel, Viking, Fireball II. "C" list Silverball Mania, Eight Ball, Strikes and Spares, Lost World, Space Invaders, Paragon & Future SPA. Obviously I've left a lot of games off that list, but those are the games I've followed selling prices. I recently sold a Silverball Mania with a nice PF (arch and horse shoe wear) NOS BG, upgraded OE boards plus all new pop bumper parts, rebuilt flippers etc for $1400. I think that's the high end of the "C" list games. I did deliver 40 miles and set up for that price.

    #27 6 years ago

    Don't forget regional price differences - an $800 Meteor in the northeast may sit for weeks, and the same game in the southwest will sell in a couple days for $1100. I'd be happy to "overpay" for a Stars at this point, but I can't even find one for sale.

    #28 6 years ago
    Quoted from nikpinball:

    There's also alot of difference between a CPR field game and a really nice example.

    I assume you mean "a really nice [all original] example."

    #29 6 years ago
    Quoted from dothedoo:

    I assume you mean "a really nice [all original] example."

    Indeed

    #30 6 years ago
    Quoted from too-many-pins:

    how do CPR & other vendors sell playfields & backglasses for these titles if a machine with a new backglass & playfield isn't worth much more than the cost of that backglass & playdfield?

    Because people like me that love the game/title soooo...much that we just don't care and we'll over invest money into a game no matter what the cost. I have over $2000 wrapped up into my Fast Draw and the new playfield is not even installed yet. Same with Barracora, Mata Hari, Spectrum........the list goes on and on. I would never invest the crazy money into a game I new I was going to turn around and sell, that's just stupid. I'd only do it for a game that I knew I was going to keep until death do us part. But it's like these people that chop up a classic car and put $50K into making it a hot rod and then turn around and sell it for half that. Not only did they lose the money/time but worse yet they ruined the originality of the car.......but that's a whole other subject.

    John

    #31 6 years ago

    About a year ago I sold a very nice example Lectronamo for $1750. My buddy recently sold his beautiful Seawitch in restored condition, original playfield, repainted cabinet for $4000. Condition dictates price.

    #32 6 years ago

    i got $1000 for a nice galaxy about a year ago. and $1700 for a nice flash gordon.
    thanks
    blake

    #33 6 years ago
    Quoted from too-many-pins:

    I think you hit the nail on the head with pinball people - for some reason (unlike car people) they don't seem to care about repro verses original and almost seem to prefer restored machines over a nice original survivor. Since I grew up heavily involved with the Lionel train & car hobbies I just can't understand why pinball machines are different. To me a nice original machine should be worth 25% more than a fully restored machine yet a lot of people will send a nice original to someone like HEP to get it restored?
    Anyway - keep the thoughts coming. As with a lot of my post I love to hear all sides of the story. When it comes to buying & selling machines I have a good idea what I am willing to pay and what I need to sell one for but I love to hear input from others just to hear what they think & why.

    When it comes to this era game I think the biggest issue is that they are rough around the edges even in pristine original condition.
    I have many examples of that from NIB to HUO documented and I am working on a HUO Centaur now
    It is clean, the mechs are nice ,apron ,backglass all those key details but the stencils are off,the wood is rough it is fragile and honestly it was not even close to a acceptable piece or structure before it went into manufacturing
    The main problem really tends to be the cabinets and natural aging for most that I see want these types of examples redone.
    I grew up in the high End auto body business and realized a long time ago Pins and cars are just two different things.
    Pins can be easily improved because the manufacturing standards and purposes were much different . They only required 25 to 50 cents at a time from strangers for the item to be successful. Pins were built to be operated .
    Cars were built to sit on a showroom floor and attract buyers that wanted to take them home and use them daily.They needed to be worthy of longer term financing for the typical buyer.
    There just isn’t the same mentality there from the manufacturers or the collectors standpoint nor those of us that restore either and or both if that makes sense.
    Not saying there is a right or wrong way just that I have lots of experience with both and it is what I have gathered.

    #34 6 years ago

    Timing can be important as well. If you are interested in a specific title, you might go weeks or months or even longer without seeing one - then suddenly there are 3 or 4 all for sale at the same time.

    #35 6 years ago
    Quoted from High_End_Pins:

    When it comes to this era game I think the biggest issue is that they are rough around the edges even in pristine original condition.
    I have many examples of that from NIB to HUO documented and I am working on a HUO Centaur now
    It is clean, the mechs are nice ,apron ,backglass all those key details but the stencils are off,the wood is rough it is fragile and honestly it was not even close to a acceptable piece or structure before it went into manufacturing
    The main problem really tends to be the cabinets and natural aging for most that I see want these types of examples redone.
    I grew up in the high End auto body business and realized a long time ago Pins and cars are just two different things.
    Pins can be easily improved because the manufacturing standards and purposes were much different . They only required 25 to 50 cents at a time from strangers for the item to be successful. Pins were built to be operated .
    Cars were built to sit on a showroom floor and attract buyers that wanted to take them home and use them daily.They needed to be worthy of longer term financing for the typical buyer.
    There just isn’t the same mentality there from the manufacturers or the collectors standpoint nor those of us that restore either and or both if that makes sense.
    Not saying there is a right or wrong way just that I have lots of experience with both and it is what I have gathered.

    LOVE YOUR WORK!

    Most people don't realize what it takes to do what you do to these machines. As with any hobby I think it takes all types of people and levels or restoration to keep everyone happy. No right or wrong - just different ways of viewing things. Keep up with the great work! I only wish I had the place or money for machines done to the level you do them.

    Quoted from Dayhuff:

    Because people like me that love the game/title soooo...much that we just don't care and we'll over invest money into a game no matter what the cost. I have over $2000 wrapped up into my Fast Draw and the new playfield is not even installed yet. Same with Barracora, Mata Hari, Spectrum........the list goes on and on. I would never invest the crazy money into a game I new I was going to turn around and sell, that's just stupid. I'd only do it for a game that I knew I was going to keep until death do us part. But it's like these people that chop up a classic car and put $50K into making it a hot rod and then turn around and sell it for half that. Not only did they lose the money/time but worse yet they ruined the originality of the car.......but that's a whole other subject.
    John

    John,

    One of these days I am hoping to make it out to see your impressive collection. Maybe next year when you do the annual get together. I do "get it" when it comes to making something over the top you are keeping but it just isn't my thing. Our gameroom is basically part of our shop so machines tend to be more like workbenches or tables then a collection most of the time. I can only wish I had a nice space for nice machines! Maybe sometime down the road!

    #36 6 years ago
    Quoted from too-many-pins:

    John,
    One of these days I am hoping to make it out to see your impressive collection. Maybe next year when you do the annual get together. I do "get it" when it comes to making something over the top you are keeping but it just isn't my thing. Our gameroom is basically part of our shop so machines tend to be more like workbenches or tables then a collection most of the time. I can only wish I had a nice space for nice machines! Maybe sometime down the road!

    Thanks T-M-P,
    I try to keep the game room area always ready to go just incase someone comes over on the spur of the moment. I have a separate area/workshop that I do all the hard maintenance on the games in. It's a little small but cozy and I have everything in there that I need, workbench, computer, tools......and of course the TV.
    John

    1 week later
    #37 6 years ago

    Machine - For Sale
    Seawitch Archived
    Fully shopped/refurbished - “Super nice and clean Seawitch for sale. This one is hard to let go.. Recently shopped it and added new rubbers for the sale. One of the drop targets needs to be replaced on center ...”
    2017-11-21
    Elba, MI
    3,250 (OBO)
    Archived after: 37 days
    Viewed: 267 times
    Status: Sold (amount unknown)
    Contributed to Pinside

    Here’s mine up for sale..

    #38 6 years ago

    I'm new to posting on Pin side and I guess I should have read this first before posting (value of compleat machines vs their parts) I've gotten a lot of insight reading your post and the comments. Thanks

    #39 6 years ago

    My Seawitch will be going up for sale soon. Here's a few pics. New back glass from Greatwich, original plastics not broken. Touched up cabinet, painted texture legs and coindoor. New Altek mpu, new displays and rectifier, new drop targets and all new flipper assemblies $2500. Located at my cabin at the moment. May take a couple weeks to bring home

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    #40 6 years ago

    I had 2 Seawitches, one in about that condition, one rough. I think I got $1200 for the nice one and it was listed on Pinside. If you were really, really trying to find one I could see someone pulling the trigger at $2500 but around here that thing would sit forever at that price.

    I think the region combined with the relative scarceness of a title drives the price.

    #41 6 years ago
    Quoted from dcannan:

    I'm new to posting on Pin side and I guess I should have read this first before posting (value of compleat machines vs their parts) I've gotten a lot of insight reading your post and the comments. Thanks

    To me the idea of a forum is a place where people can learn something. I hate all the chatter about nothing and really like post that contain useful information people can use down the road for reference. Anyway - I just wanted to say thanks to all who posted and figured I would bump this to the top of the page one last time.

    #42 6 years ago

    Well your bump caught me- I can say that I purchased a decent survivor Harlem Globetrotters a year or a bit more ago for 850. It has a nice cabinet (faded a bit on the right lower) electronics are all original and mostly unrepaired (some work on powersupply) and the playfield is a solid 9/10 for art but 6/10 for inserts as they are rather severly cupped. Backglass is 10/10 perfection.

    I had to pay 850 to get the game- the seller had two others with offers- one at 900 but I was there with cash in hand and a truck to haul it away- I would pay that again for this game- I would say that top end for a better quality game out here would easily reach 1500. My game came with the usual- its been sitting in my father in laws basement for the last 20 yrs and rubber was rotted off etc etc... hardly attractive and not even fully working when I tested it.

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