(Topic ID: 75171)

Prices & Demand Falling? 2013 seems like "price drop" has become the norm?


By too-many-pins

5 years ago



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    Topic poll

    “Prices trending down & why?”

    • I see no real change in prices 42 votes
      13%
    • Prices are down because there are less people coming into the hobby these days 4 votes
      1%
    • Prices are down because of all the great new machines coming out. 127 votes
      40%
    • Prices are just coming down to a more realistic range for used arcade equipment and were crazy before. 94 votes
      30%
    • OTHER 12 votes
      4%
    • I disagree and actually think prices are still trending upward. 39 votes
      12%

    (318 votes by 0 Pinsiders)

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    #51 5 years ago
    Quoted from Stack15:

    Is there going to be a $3,500 LOTR near me soon??

    Only games I don't own are allowed to drop in price

    Sorry

    #52 5 years ago

    Prices have dropped some. However, they will not "freefall" as long as new titles continue to go for $7,000 and more. They can't. People will still rather own an older SS and TZ rather then one NIB pin (in most cases) so that will keep a floor on the good older games in my opinion. Could a SS drop to $3.5K-$4K.....yes as can a TZ but the days of a $2.5K SS or TZ are gone forever as long as NIB pins continue to sell for $7K plus in my opinion.

    People forget you used to be able to buy a nice NIB TSPP and IM for around $4K or less................so it made sense for a lot of the popular older games (TZ, SS, FH, etc) to be $2.5k-$3K but now with prices at $6K-$7K for newer games that has to put a floor of around $3.5K-$4K on a lot of these titles. So can they fall some more....yes, but not much more in my opinion. Where I believe and always have believed the risk has really been is the really expensive older titles....AFM, MB, MM and CC to name a few. Especially now with the remakes.

    The remakes have put a price cap on a lot of the older games and that is what you are seeing in my opinion. I doubt prices totally collapse but you will start to see a "cost associated with owning games" and truly what is wrong with that. It is a hobby as others have pointed out (the guy who bought his drum set for $4K and sold it for $1.5K....that is the way most hobbies work). Pinball will always be a cheap hobby. If you buy popular games SM, TSPP, LOTR, etc my feeling is they will probably not go down that much in value. The risk is with the newer games that are not hits (Avengers and Rolling Stones to name a couple that come to mind). If you pay NIB prices and them game is a "dud" you will get hurt a lot more then if the game becomes a "classic"....so from that standpoint it depends on the popularity of your collection.

    #53 5 years ago

    HOP.........you are back, what do you think?

    #54 5 years ago

    Well this is the thing that has been discussed before. You take a game like TSPP. Great theme and loaded, I mean it is a loaded pin. I was just looking at it yesterday thinking okay, what would not be on a pro?- what would they chop out? For the pro, The homer head would probably stay. The upper playfield would be gone, as well as the garage door. That would probably just be a shot. No crossover monorail ramp obviously, the spinner would probably be there, captive ball bart that moves on his skateboard would be replaced with a plastic over the captive ball with a Bart image. Maybe a character figure or two chopped out, and your itchy and scratchy drop targets would be replaced with standup targets. It seems like a bargain even if it's in the 4k range!

    However, the current premiums are fancy looking birds, that is for sure, but I have not yet been convinced that the premiums are worth the extra ''bread'' needed to feed the birds...with the exception of AC/DC premium.

    Now there is one game that is loaded, and it's just got it all going on in its premium version vs the pro. However, after spending a ton of time on a premium I owned, I would be happy going the pro route if I was to revisit it, since I had my fun with the premium.

    We're talking 2, 3 even $5,000 over the cost of a pro for some extra features (TRON)
    Is it really worth it? At the end of the day, I just want to play a bad ass pinball game. I just haven't been convinced I guess.

    #55 5 years ago

    It just seems like these days a lot of people are selling off a few $1000 to $5000 machines to buy a new JJP or Stern and now the market is a little flooded with nice used pins so prices have dropped some this Fall. I expect we will see a rebound by sometime the end of next year but this Spring & Summer will be interesting for sure!

    Crazy thing is a good many pins under $1200 to $1500 are worth double their asking price in parts and people are still not buying them. When I buy a pin I figure if it is worth double what I pay for it in parts it is pretty much impossible to not make out OK on it.

    Don't get me wrong - I don't part out many machines - but I always figure I can't go wrong if I pay 1/2 of the parts value for a machine regardless of condition. And I love having parts in my bins to bring nicer old machines back to life. Some parts you just can't buy at any price so it is always nice to have stuff on hand when you need it.

    #56 5 years ago

    I have voted :
    " Prices are down because of all the great new machines coming out "
    and it seems to be into the majority trend , WOZ come into the market ,some title in UK will show up , the Stern titles from 2000 to 2006 are more affordable as price range,,, high end buyer will buy Metallica at 10K
    Bottom line : people with money will go to new machines ,middle buyer has almost disappeared , so sellers have to lower prices to the low cost buyers from entry level .

    #57 5 years ago

    Price trends are all over the board depending on what the game, location, and condition are.

    In general terms:
    -very nice or restored older games are still selling for crazy amounts
    -crappy condition games are selling for less than they were 6 months ago and sitting much longer
    -HUO Sterns have dropped in price with a few exceptions for the hot games

    I have definitely seen an overall lack of confidence in buying from those that had a tie to value of games after the MMR announcement. It just seemed to suck some of the zest out of guys that liked pinball but were also building a 'portfolio of games'. They now are a little unsure about their portfolio.

    The current trend is also just classic supply/demand and if anything demand has shifted as the large bolus of people that came in the hobby in the past few years have diversified their tastes and are now buying a wider variety of games (both brand new and more oddball or 'less popular') which has relaxed some of the pressure on the top 20-30 list of hot titles. I still am seeing quite a few new people coming into the hobby (both online and local IRL).

    Seems to me like the hobby is growing every month but attitudes have shifted slightly (for the better) in the past 6 months and the high profile games have taken the biggest drop in value while many other have even gone up.

    #58 5 years ago

    Maybe for the A-list/expensive games the prices are dropping...I sure don't see it on the older solid states. If they come up for sale at all - which seems less and less, and the prices are very high when they do.

    #59 5 years ago

    I think they have stopped climbing, dunno about significant drop. it would be nice to get a used trek (stern pro) for under 3k in a few years. it's a bit discouraging when you see used tron pros going for over 5k.. where's the leftovers for us small time collectors?

    #60 5 years ago
    Quoted from maddog14:

    The down tick we are experiencing was 100% triggered by the official announcement of the MMR.
    Everything was fine and selling right up to that moment in time.
    Why it is continuing during the traditional upswing in pin prices? Hindsight will tell for sure. But it was 100% triggered by the MMR.

    There have been many excellent comments in this thread about the various observations and theories for the recent pinball machine price decreases, or pins sitting on the market for longer periods of time; even though it's my belief that the reason is multifactorial, I would like to revisit the MMR theory:

    A remake of a pin should in theory, only affect the specific pin, but in the case of MMR it may have affected the psyche of the entire pin community that nothing is sacred. People in this hobby as an investment may no longer bank on the appreciation of their machines. The MMR announcement, for example, came on the heels of a Texas pinball site listing a "highly shopped" MM for $24,000 on eBay. Could it be that people like the Texas site were responsible for the speculation of pinball machines and over-inflation of prices, and now they have to rethink their strategy?

    #61 5 years ago

    Overall prices on most games are gradually going upward (minus a few).
    Games are typically getting harder to find (less for sale and less picks from operators).
    Also, some games are still in cherry picking range: DM, JD, SST

    #62 5 years ago

    To me there are some "deals" in games like Mousi'n Around, Roller Games & Big Guns

    #63 5 years ago

    I believe many of the the top Bally/Williams games will get remade. So on the high end we can expect prices for those pins to top out at $8000 for NIB then less for lower conditions. The top of the market has been reset for all but HEP like restorations. Folks are more interested in the NIB and most buyers have limited space and funds to buy their collections. So something has to go to fund the NIB. Since the market has reset at the top it has trickled down to the b,c and d titles. Flipping pins is much harder since most folks are going to highly selective for a title they desire to add and some will limit to titles that hold there value better than others. The beater market is really going to suck. System 11 and older is going to crater. New people entering the hobby generally started playing on 90's and later machines so they will lean to the newer models.

    #64 5 years ago

    I tried to sell a routed Medieval Madness for $7,800 and could'nt find a buyer a lot of e-mails saying that new ones are $8,000 so why would someone pay $7,800 for a used routed one?

    #65 5 years ago

    Generally IMO:

    Before MMR: Lemming buying frenzy.

    Post MMR: Deer in headlights.

    Longer sale times & lower sale prices seem to be the result for now.

    #66 5 years ago

    I think that most people in this thread are referring to DMD machines or maybe even system 11 era machines. I think EM or 1970's era machines are in a completely different market. At least in this neck of the woods, it seems that these machines can't move at any price. I do wonder if that dynamic could hit the DMD market at some point in the far future.

    #67 5 years ago

    I'll take a paragon and viking for bargain bin prices

    #68 5 years ago
    Quoted from nosro:

    I think that most people in this thread are referring to DMD machines or maybe even system 11 era machines. I think EM or 1970's era machines are in a completely different market. At least in this neck of the woods, it seems that these machines can't move at any price. I do wonder if that dynamic could hit the DMD market at some point in the far future.

    To me there are actually 4 different pinball markets:

    First is run of the mill EM's or common early SS Machines - that market seems flat and has been since we have been in the hobby. For several years now those machines have been in the $200 to $500 price range.

    Second is the better EM's & early SS machines - that market has been all over the place with some neat EM's and great early SS machine dropping in value and some climbing. (FLAVOR of the month titles)

    Third is the machines we tend to love - System 11 machines, Data East Machines & cheaper DMD titles. That market seemed like it kept climbing over the past 4 or 5 years at about 5% to 20% per year depending on title. That is one of the markets that has seemed to have dropped off some the past few months.

    And lastly is the higher end DMD machines as well as the new Sterns & JJ's WOZ. "The money people". That market seemed pretty stable and climbing up till there were too many new machines coming out and really got hit hard when the MM remake was announced.

    Since we are most interested in the second and third market that is the one I pay most attention to and that seems to be taking a hit over the past couple months.

    But regardless which market we talk about it seems like prices & demand has dropped off some since Sept or Oct and 90% of the machines I have seen for sale just are not selling quickly like they had been over the past couple years. There are exceptions - but for the most part prices seem down and sales of machines seems to have slowed lately.

    Again thanks for all the votes on the poll and comments. I am trying to look ahead to 2014 and decide what direction I want to go with our collection. Which reminds me HAPPY NEW YEAR!

    #69 5 years ago
    Quoted from too-many-pins:

    To me there are actually 4 different pinball markets:
    First is run of the mill EM's or common early SS Machines - that market seems flat and has been since we have been in the hobby. For several years now those machines have been in the $200 to $500 price range.
    Second is the better EM's & early SS machines - that market has been all over the place with some neat EM's and great early SS machine dropping in value and some climbing. (FLAVOR of the month titles)
    Third is the machines we tend to love - System 11 machines, Data East Machines & cheaper DMD titles. That market seemed like it kept climbing over the past 4 or 5 years at about 5% to 20% per year depending on title. That is one of the markets that has seemed to have dropped off some the past few months.
    And lastly is the higher end DMD machines as well as the new Sterns & JJ's WOZ. "The money people". That market seemed pretty stable and climbing up till there were too many new machines coming out and really got hit hard when the MM remake was announced.
    Since we are most interested in the second and third market that is the one I pay most attention to and that seems to be taking a hit over the past couple months.
    But regardless which market we talk about it seems like prices & demand has dropped off some since Sept or Oct and 90% of the machines I have seen for sale just are not selling quickly like they had been over the past couple years. There are exceptions - but for the most part prices seem down and sales of machines seems to have slowed lately.
    Again thanks for all the votes on the poll and comments. I am trying to look ahead to 2014 and decide what direction I want to go with our collection. Which reminds me HAPPY NEW YEAR!

    And with all categories, perfect examples can set their own price - well, priced quite a bit above the norm. Find a great title still in a box and boom! Never seen a Gottlieb 1960's or 1970's EM NIB for sale - curious how that would do.

    #70 5 years ago

    this topic was discussed on the jan.2014 spooky pinball podcast. it seems to be the case everywhere in the u.s. at least. the market is softening just a bit. that's good news for anyone buying a game. might not be so good for some selling.

    #71 5 years ago
    Quoted from Stack15:

    Is there going to be a $3,500 LOTR near me soon??

    I think I bought my LOTR in 2008 for $3400 - and even then I was probably paying a few hundred too much (HUO, but totally filthy and needed a lot of love)....

    Quoted from shacklersrevenge:

    It just became stupid for some games. I scratch my head over a game like WH20 for example. It's 20 years old, and up until the last few years was a $1500-2200 game all day long, which feels spot on for what it is. Almost over night, it becomes $3500-$4500.

    I bought my first WH2O in '07 for $750. Now, GREAT DEAL...but - operator type of game...worn playfield, shitty ramps, no topper, faded cab, etc. You have to dump a lot of money into WH2O to make it nice. Ramps, playfields, cab decals, etc...prob add another $2k to it, plus time and labor. That's why that game shot up in price...

    ...and I think that's why the whole market in general shot up in price. When I started collecting, there were still tons of games from operators, auctions, garage sales - PROJECT GAMES! ...hobbyists love project games cuz they're cheap and you get the satisfaction of bringing a game back to life and making it nicer. Even if prices soften (which they should, it was getting way too insane) - I don't see them ever dropping to '07-'08 levels because there will never be an inventory of project games like there used to be. Most games going up for sale are from hobbyists now, not from homeowners who never knew the glass could come off. So - nicer games are for sale, and prices will reflect that.

    As for personal experience - I recently had 2 games for sale. Took a little longer than it used to - but both sold within a month of listing & I got what I wanted.

    #72 5 years ago

    It bothers me that people make assumptions and predictions about how games that are not even out yet (like MMR or even Stren's Mustang pin) will affect the overall market. They could both be flops, they could both be great and industry changing revelation titles. Once the games are out and for sale to play, people will then know if those relases will affect the hobby. Until then, it's pure speculation. Nothing more.

    I would like to say that the biggest game changer in recent years that I took notice of was the prices TronLE was fetching. It was a smart move by Stern and showed them that a popular and fun playing pin can be transformed into a money making cash cow. If that LE release hadn't been a sellout, I don't think they would have broke out with 3 different pin models like they have now (Pro,Premium,LE).

    So, say what you want about what prices might do in the future (speculation). Stern definataly changed the hobby, for better or worse, with the 3 different levels of pinball experience that a consumer can purchase. Much like the recent retro classic car remakes with the Charger/Mustang/Camaro having many different models/options. They have those model choices for money making reasons.

    #73 5 years ago
    Quoted from snyper2099:

    It bothers me that people make assumptions and predictions about how games that are not even out yet (like MMR or even Stren's Mustang pin) will affect the overall market. They could both be flops, they could both be great and industry changing revelation titles. Once the games are out and for sale to play, people will then know if those relases will affect the hobby. Until then, it's pure speculation. Nothing more.
    I would like to say that the biggest game changer in recent years that I took notice of was the prices TronLE was fetching. It was a smart move by Stern and showed them that a popular and fun playing pin can be transformed into a money making cash cow. If that LE release hadn't been a sellout, I don't think they would have broke out with 3 different pin models like they have now (Pro,Premium,LE).
    So, say what you want about what prices might do in the future (speculation). Stern definataly changed the hobby, for better or worse, with the 3 different levels of pinball experience that a consumer can purchase. Much like the recent retro classic car remakes with the Charger/Mustang/Camaro having many different models/options. They have those model choices for money making reasons.

    The PPS reproduction plan is far from speculation, it's very real and has an influence on purchase decisions now. Are there some risks associated with MMR yes but probability is high for success. There is higher risk assuming that it won't happen.

    #74 5 years ago
    Quoted from Rarehero:

    there will never be an inventory of project games like there used to be. Most games going up for sale are from hobbyists now, not from homeowners who never knew the glass could come off.

    I'm in agreement with what Rarehero says here. Parents are not dumping machines as often "because the kids don't play this anymore" and everyone either knows about selling online or knows someone who does. Popular TV junk collecting programming, such as "American Pickers" or "Pawn Stars" means more folks know about trying to get more for their unwanted items - especially if they are old. Being an old item doesn't automatically make it valuable, but still puts it in peoples minds to try to negotiate more for their stuff.

    I think all this has much effect on the lower end market. Maybe not so much on EMs (as too-many-pins said that market appears flat as has been for a time) Solid states in the eighties and nineties are drying up over time and mostly because the are absorbed by collectors, or bought by flippers and eventually migrate into collector possession. Games are made nice or at least maintained and the prices as they change hands generally increases. I don't see this reversing now, and I don't speculate it will improve. I can't imagine droves of collectors dumping these games at deal prices that will push the market down, just because of some new games released.

    #75 5 years ago
    Quoted from snyper2099:

    It bothers me that people make assumptions and predictions about how games that are not even out yet (like MMR or even Stren's Mustang pin) will affect the overall market.

    See, but that ship has sailed already. There's no speculation, just look around. MMR's effects aren't some future thing.

    I don't think anyone really cares enough about the Mustang pin to think it will affect the market.

    #76 5 years ago
    Quoted from wayout440:

    Games are made nice or at least maintained and the prices as they change hands generally increases. I don't see this reversing now, and I don't speculate it will improve. I can't imagine droves of collectors dumping these games at deal prices that will push the market down, just because of some new games released.

    I am sure people made those same assumptions with em's and look at that market now. Times and tastes change as do prices that trend down after a bubble and/or consumer demographic and product evolution. Another thought is when older pin collectors downsize there homes thus room for pins reduces means more older pins on the market. It's the natural process that happens in most collector hobbies (paintings and other uber rich collections appear to be immune to this).

    #77 5 years ago
    Quoted from bmunn1:

    Another thought is when older pin collectors downsize there homes thus room for pins reduces means more older pins on the market.

    I don't see this impacting the price much. If a collector folds right now, let's say for example someone here on Pinside. There are a huge number of folks to fight for his pins. He could be a generous soul and give them all away cheap - first come first serve, or a little high priced, or something in between. I think it would take a lot of collectors to fold simultaneously to affect the average prices.

    Besides, some older pin collectors never downsize. They just build bigger houses, new storage facilites, buy a barn and put a gameroom in it or whatever, sometimes just to store games - not even to play them.

    #78 5 years ago

    Just seems to me:

    Games 6k + are dropping
    Games 3600-5900 dropping a little
    Games 2000-3500 mostly holding (some are up some are down a little)
    Games under 2k holding.

    #79 5 years ago
    Quoted from Astropin:

    Just seems to me:
    Games 6k + are dropping
    Games 3600-5900 dropping a little
    Games 2000-3500 mostly holding (some are up some are down a little)
    Games under 2k holding.

    You forgot this one:

    NIB games rising

    #80 5 years ago

    Although I agree that collector grade or HUO/NIB games may hold their value more than player grade or routed/re-import games, how sustainable is the collector's market? I have a couple of games that I would categorize as collector's grade, but I rather have my friends and family keep playing them and if I do decide to sell them in the future, they're going to be older, more beat up and worn. Just because I want more money for them shouldn't stop me from playing them, despite potential wear and additional decrease in it's collector grade value. A pinball machine should not like be like an original painting that just hangs on a wall. I know a few Pinsiders that have two identical Stern machines, one they play and the other still NIB, waiting for a time down the road to sell it for a large profit. Really??!!

    #81 5 years ago
    Quoted from frolic:

    You forgot this one
    NIB games rising

    I think the rising is temporary unless they change their production process. More specifically complete coding at or soon after production begins with Stern and Faster production from JJP.

    More people are playing a wait and see approach to NIB. Will the code match the layout and theme potential. JJP seems committed to complete code but Stern does not. Stern doesn't fully grasp that collectors are their main customers and they need to make them happy. Customers are waking up to the code issue since they are paying about 3-4 grand more now for NIB then when I purchased mine. You can predict when a pin will be code complete by if they offer a premium model. ACDC was the first, Mettallica and St the others I believe. You should be nervous buying an LE if no premium is announced.

    My NIB Stern purchases in order of purchase:

    Family Guy - Code Complete
    LOTR LE - Code Complete
    WOF - code needs a lot of work
    SM - Code complete
    BDK - Modes still need to be coded (my favorite - would pay to complete but should not have to)

    PINs I would consider if code completed:

    ACDC - nearly complete
    Mettallica - needs a lot of work

    #82 5 years ago
    Quoted from frolic:

    You forgot this one:
    NIB games rising

    Yeah how many months/years away will the 10k NIB be?

    #83 5 years ago
    Quoted from Astropin:

    Games under 2k holding.

    Holding at the residence they currently reside in.

    #84 5 years ago
    Quoted from HELLODEADCITY:

    Yeah how many months/years away will the 10k NIB be?

    Pinball 3K!

    #85 5 years ago
    Quoted from Rarehero:

    When I started collecting, there were still tons of games from operators, auctions, garage sales - PROJECT GAMES! ... Most games going up for sale are from hobbyists now, not from homeowners who never knew the glass could come off. So - nicer games are for sale, and prices will reflect that. ...

    This type of explanation also accounts for the difference between Mr. Pinball prices and Boston Pinball (Ebay) prices. It further suggests that "pinflation" is only partly as bad as everyone thinks it is, once prices are adjusted for condition.

    #86 5 years ago
    Quoted from HELLODEADCITY:

    Yeah how many months/years away will the 10k NIB be?

    Interesting you make that comment yet don't own a single DMD

    #87 5 years ago
    Quoted from HELLODEADCITY:

    Yeah how many months/years away will the 10k NIB be?

    iirc,
    Whoa Nelli, and Magic Girl went over

    #88 5 years ago
    Quoted from scott_freeman:

    iirc,
    Whoa Nelli, and Magic Girl went over

    Boutique products, low number, are niche and not comparable to the general market.

    #89 5 years ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    See, but that ship has sailed already. There's no speculation, just look around. MMR's effects aren't some future thing.
    I don't think anyone really cares enough about the Mustang pin to think it will affect the market.

    You are wrong on both counts to assume these things will be a success or a failure until they begin to sell. A preorder is not a sale; all deposits are fully refundable still. You have no way of knowing these things. Think about why Rolling Stones was a flop and AC/DC was a great success? I can tell you that it didn't have anything to do with preorders or the bands! Now how would you have known that 5 years ago?

    All companies have the possibility to make flops and bad products no matter how reliable or succesful previous items were made or how well they sold.

    #90 5 years ago
    Quoted from nosro:

    It further suggests that "pinflation" is only partly as bad as everyone thinks it is, once prices are adjusted for condition.

    I've LONG said the same thing.

    The market shift that happened was that the hobby had a ton of people come in who wanted perfect examples of machines and didn't know how to care for them themselves. Why buy a project [insert game title here] for $2,000 when you can get a perfect one that you shouldn't need to call a tech on for a year for $3k? That attitude definitely drove a lot of the market... I had NO problem finding multiple total project machines a year for the last few years for the same great prices I would have expected before the whole inflation thing.

    Try to sell a beat up B list machine, and you'll sit on it for a while unless it's cheap.

    There was most definitely a group of people who got into the hobby for the wrong reason over the past few years, and that was because they expected their machines to always make money and keep going up and up in price. That isn't realistic in any way, and what I think happened is that the MMR has caused some of them to rethink their purchases and it has held game prices down. I think it would be a good thing if people started treating it like the hobby that it is again and not a money-making venture that they are going to retire on.

    I think prices will become relatively stable again, and hold that way for a long time now.

    #91 5 years ago
    Quoted from nosro:

    This type of explanation also accounts for the difference between Mr. Pinball prices and Boston Pinball (Ebay) prices. It further suggests that "pinflation" is only partly as bad as everyone thinks it is, once prices are adjusted for condition.

    that's a good point - i bet the average 1990s pin is in better shape today than it was 10 years ago!

    #92 5 years ago
    Quoted from bmunn1:

    Interesting you make that comment yet don't own a single DMD

    Why do you find that interesting?
    Everyone can see the prices and trends in forum (s)

    #93 5 years ago
    Quoted from HELLODEADCITY:

    Why do you find that interesting?
    Everyone can see the prices and trends in forum (s)

    Valid point ( I apologize if I offended anyone) but from Pin Manufacturer perspective they only care about actual customer opinion. Or at least they should - but considering the lack of code from Stern you have to be wondering if they care at all.

    #94 5 years ago

    I think it has more to do with technology than we think...Pinflation coincided with the introduction of the Ipad. A lot of new people came into the hobby due to the pinball app, now the pad market is reached a plateau along with a glut of new games coming into the market demand has dampened a bit. I bet it there is a quite a bit more to go before it bottoms out and that the fall will accelerate after Hobbit and MMR hit the market, of course this all just speculations.

    #95 5 years ago
    Quoted from kvan99:

    A lot of new people came into the hobby due to the pinball app

    To me this is like saying a whole bunch of folks bought real guns because of shooting games. Anyway, that's my speculation/guess - I don't think there is enough evidence to support any increase in pinball sales because of some Ipad apps.

    #96 5 years ago
    Quoted from wayout440:

    To me this is like saying a whole bunch of folks bought real guns because of shooting games. Anyway, that's my speculation/guess - I don't think there is enough evidence to support any increase in pinball sales because of some Ipad apps.

    I'm not sure that analogy works the same, at least for me...I mean angry birds didn't make me go out and buy a parrot, but playing virtual pinball just led to seeking out real pinball, same as two other pinball aficionados in my pinball group.

    #97 5 years ago

    Take this with a grain of salt because it's eBay and we have no idea about the condition of the machines being sold, but the 2-3 year trend has been fewer and fewer machines being sold for higher dollar amounts. I don't see a supply and demand issue though I see higher asking prices and fewer buyers willing to plunk down the money. Good for the hobby? That's a matter of opinion I guess. We'll have to wait and see what 2014 offers

    pins.jpg
    #98 5 years ago
    Quoted from snyper2099:

    Once the games are out and for sale to play, people will then know if those relases will affect the hobby.

    I disagree. I think we'll know three to four years after release. Even if the MMR is a completely faithful reproduction gameplay-wise, we still need to see how the new electronics wear. Yes, the reliability of modern electronics has improved over the past 20 years, but that by itself doesn't guarantee a favorable outcome. The WOZ lighting boards are a prime example of this. Design flaws happen.. new designs have new issues. Time will tell. While the introduction of the MMR represents a paper loss to me financially, I'm stoked that it will be widely available. More people playing great pinball is a good thing.

    Quoted from HELLODEADCITY:

    Yeah how many months/years away will the 10k NIB be?

    It's already here. The WOZECLE from authorized distributors is going for 9,995.00 + tax. BTW, played the new code release yesterday on location and it's impressive. WOZ is really coming along, IMO.

    Quoted from kvan99:

    Pinflation coincided with the introduction of the Ipad. A lot of new people came into the hobby due to the pinball app

    I agree with this. Pinball arcade on the IPad with a free TOTAN table made pinball available/visible to a huge swath of people.

    To the people who are claiming that the MMR should not effect the market until it ships, I also disagree. The price of a pin today has as much to do with future expectations of changes in price as does the actual condition of the pin itself. The second the MMR was released, anticipation of unlimited NIB supply revoked MM's grail status. This is as it should be.

    Cheers,
    S

    #99 5 years ago
    Quoted from Underspin:

    Take this with a grain of salt because it's eBay and we have no idea about the condition of the machines being sold, but the 2-3 year trend has been fewer and fewer machines being sold for higher dollar amounts.

    I think at least part of this effect can be taken as the decline of eBay's popularity as a place to buy and sell pins.

    #100 5 years ago
    Quoted from wayout440:

    To me this is like saying a whole bunch of folks bought real guns because of shooting games. Anyway, that's my speculation/guess - I don't think there is enough evidence to support any increase in pinball sales because of some Ipad apps.

    my two games are directly due to The Pinball Arcade on iPad.

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