Just read a thread on someone trying to sell a machine. Man............. the different opinions on what something is worth just amazes me.
I have a feeling what the poll will show, but what can be done about it??
(Topic ID: 210418)
Houston, TX
Quoted from timab2000:what something is worth just amazes me.
Subjective!
It's only worth what someone will pay for it.
What I would pay could be vastly different than what others will pay. Does that mean it's worth more, not necessarily it means who ever purchases it simply wanted it more!
Believe it or not there are people who pay sticker price for their cars 
!
People, that is only the starting point of negotiations, watch American Picker or Pawn Stars, WOW can there be huge deltas in market value vs perceived value.
Now off to get my popcorn for that other thread. 
Price is subjective: to the collector who makes $500,000 a year, a $5000 pin is not expensive. To a collector that makes $50,000 a year, a $5000 pin is very expensive. It depends on where you put your money and what brings you joy. Everyone has some form of addiction-pinball is just a very expensive addiction. If buying a pinball machine makes you happy- go for it!
Yes and No. When I got into pinball seriously $4200 was the price of NIB Stern and everyone thought it was getting out of hand then.
The guy in the Sorcerer thread is making his own bed there but hats off to him because he's holding his own. Even if its delusional 
Some topics on pricing...
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stern-prices-going-up
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/future-of-pinball-prices
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/will-prices-ever-go-back-down
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/retail-prices-are-they-crazy
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/new-to-pinball-collectingare-these-prices-for-real
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/how-are-house-prices-where-you-live-theyre-crazy-in-new-england
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stle-are-prices-going-up-or-are-sellers-just-dreaming
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/where-will-prices-stabilize-for-medieval-madness-after-remake-run
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/prices-about-to-come-down
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/do-nib-prices-fluctuate-over-time-is-it-better-to-wait
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/new-stern-prices
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/increasing-prices-good-for-pinball
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/increasing-prices-terrible-for-pinball
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/what-am-i-missing-about-some-of-these-prices
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/has-high-prices-influenced-your-pin-purchases
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/are-mr-pinball-2016-prices-too-low
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/if-you-want-to-cry-about-prices-look-at-this
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/my-game-is-worth-top-dollar-have-you-seen-the-prices-
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinball-machine-prices-1
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/used-pinball-prices-what-is-going-on
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/em-pinball-machines-prices-on-the-way-downon-the-way-up#post-4240585
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/is-jjp-pricing-itself-out-of-business
The great price bubble debate...
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stern-prices-going-up
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-bubble-in-pinball
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/why-pinball-will-battle-on-and-survive
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/this-is-not-a-rebirth-of-pinball-its-a-bubble
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinball-manufacturers-creating-price-bubble
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinball-price-bubble-will-pop
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinball-price-bubblenotice-some-strange-things-here-in-the-north-east
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinball-price-bubble-mm-as-an-example
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinball-price-bubble-think-it-cant-happen-think-again
Quoted from hAbO:Yes and No. When I got into pinball seriously $4200 was the price of NIB Stern and everyone thought it was getting out of hand then.
Oh man we never thought we'd be here
Quoted from ForceFlow:$100 is a drop in the bucket. That can easily enter the picture anywhere between production and the distribution as a simple fluctuation in the cost of doing business.
$1000 would be more newsworthy.
We're all noting it now. Thanks Stern/JJP!
My buddy just sold his shadow for like 8000. Is it worth 8000? No but someone paid it because they wanted it. The issue is that sets everyone's expectations that their shadow is now worth 8000. Truth is it's only worth what someone will pay
Quoted from PinballTilt:he issue is that sets everyone's expectations that their shadow is now worth 8000.
If anyone wants my Shadow for 8K, please PM me. Or call me. Or just show up with the cash. I'll help load the game. Hell, I'll deliver within 300 miles for 8K.
The takeaway from this ridiculous topic is that a shadow sold for 8k. Damn.
Back to the topic, before I entered this beautiful sickness I call pinball I would say prices were insane and made absolutely no sense. Now my brain is conditioned differently for better or for worse.
Quoted from mrossman5:You talking about the Sorcerer thread?
Yes, that was thread I had read that got me thinking about this.
It seems like everyone would like to see more people get into the hobby, however it also seems to that's not possible when everything out there is out of reach of most people.
I saw a craigslist post that asked if there were any $500 machines out there for sale, and if there were to contact him. I just had to laugh. But at the same time I thought that it's kind of sad that there aren't any at that price.
So come on stop asking so much for your games!! They see all these other games at high prices and they think that's the going rate.
I would have only offered about $400 for the sorcerer. Maybe 600 if I really wanted it. You guys are very kind at 1200
I think you have to look at it differently. Purchase price - (maintenance + cost of tied up money - resale price) = total cost of a pinball machine. If you buy at the right price, it isn't that expensive. It just ties up a large chunk of money while you have it. I am in the black with a lot of my machines just due to how the market has been but if you put on a 500-1,000 plays on a machine in a year it most likely was cheaper for you to own the machine for that year than to go someplace to play it on site. If you are buying for any reason other than entertainment, that is just speculation. But the cost of ownership isn't too bad if you just get in at the right price. Similarly, to how people who drive Corvette's sometimes talk about how the cost of driving their cars isn't that much due to how they don't depreciate with use like many other cars.
I think if the people who make the games would get away from all the movie, tv and rock band titles and go back to just coming up with their own names for game, like they used to do, they could probably sell them for less, sell more of them and not have to pay anything extra for using the name of some band to sell a machine.
Do they even make games anymore without some sort of stupid hollywood or band connection tied to it??
I bought my first game in 82 for 75.00, I have a friend who still finds them for that price, usually more. He fixes them and sells them around 400 to 600 after he has spent a great deal of time getting it to work and play well. Every time I mention a deal like this people tell me it is not a new game. I guess it is new or nothing for a lot of people. I spent 35 years in this hobby before I could afford my first new game. I love my new game, but I still go to my friend's to play when I can. It is all pinball and there is an entry point for everyone.
Quoted from timab2000:I think if the people who make the games would get away from all the movie, tv and rock band titles and go back to just coming up with their own names for game, like they used to do, they could probably sell them for less,
Or they could do what the remake clowns are doing. Sell them for a lot more, guarantee with words they will be better, and then vámonos when people start having problems with them.
Quoted from o-din:Or they could do what the remake clowns are doing. Sell them for a lot more, guarantee with words they will be better, and then vámonos when people start having problems with them.
Woah, CGC is going to need some aloe vera. o-din do you have a AFMr with PF issues?
Quoted from Waxx:o-din do you have a AFMr with PF issues?
Hell no! I wouldn't give a dime to those snake oil salesmen. But I do read a lot.
it is what it is
people ask silly prices because game sell at silly prices
glad i am not trying to build a collection these days
Any pin that sells is not overpriced.
Overpriced means that it has a price where no one will buy it in a reasonable time period.
Just because an individual thinks that something is priced too high when it sells just means they think it's worth less and nothing more - this presents no evidence at all that something is "overpriced".
There might be outliers like when someone buys something way over the average price but all this does is drive up the average and is still a valid part of the entire market stats that make up the "value" of that item.
Complacency mentality amongst some buyers enables price gouging amongst some sellers at both a retail and private sale level.
There are still plenty of bargains to be found out there hiding away in barns/garages or sitting onsite barely used whose operator is some octogenarian that can barely remember what machines he still has.
I didn't want to pay retail on barely shopped container pins so imported my own load and did my own labour on them to resell to new entrants where I had surplus stock. I didn't want to pay local retail on NIB Sterns so bypassed the local monopoly distributor and imported my own units with a bunch of other fellow collectors as a group buy. This goes on regularly down here in Australia largely on the quiet because of the hierarchical politics and market collusion.
The key is, it is going to take some legwork, initiative and going outside of the traditional collector group rather than some button clicking and playing pinball musical chairs with the existing userbase (where everyone ultimately always misses out bar one).
I see titles that are rated decent, frozen price wise for years. Then I see prices on machines that couldn't sell for under $1000 a year or so ago, with asking prices around $2500.
I've seen revenge from mars sell for 3600, then one or 2 others months later, in almost as good condition, sit at 2600.
I know for a fact that pinside archive has a whole lot of BS inflated sold prices or a ton of crap with no prices listed, which tells me that there's a bubble. Sure, some out there may pay retard price for a pin, but there's gonna be a ton of disappointment when time to resell.
Quoted from RCA1:If anyone wants my Shadow for 8K, please PM me. Or call me. Or just show up with the cash. I'll help load the game. Hell, I'll deliver within 300 miles for 8K.
Heck I'll even sell mine at the bargain price of $7500. 
John
Quoted from timab2000:I think if the people who make the games would get away from all the movie, tv and rock band titles and go back to just coming up with their own names for game, like they used to do, they could probably sell them for less, sell more of them and not have to pay anything extra for using the name of some band to sell a machine.
Do they even make games anymore without some sort of stupid hollywood or band connection tied to it??
Original themes are hit and miss now a days. Something with a recognizable brand to make people walk over is the safer bet. Also working twice as hard to make essentially the same amount of money is not a good business plan...
Quoted from leonml:People will get bored with pinball, trust me. When they do, I'll be buying. There's a bunch of young pinball people buying and selling titles rapidly, add they get bored eventually this will wear thin. On to the next gimmick.
16 years later here I am and prices are still going up just some more than others lol
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