Another price thread and it's only noon-ish in NYC. Why won't y'all let Levi rest?

get ready

I think they are just trying to surround Levi.

Wear him out by naptime so you can get some time to yourself in the afternoon. I'm a parent, I get it.

Stern is raising their prices because the costs of raw materials, labor and transportation are all up. Someone makes a part for Stern, and their raw material, labor and transportation costs have all increased so they pass that along to Stern. Stern's labor costs go up, and they have to raise their prices due to all of their costs (labor and supplier) have increased.

If Stern is firing on all cylinders while having a year long backlog then yes, they should raise prices. Significantly. Like $15k for a premium. Or more. Hot cakes!

If Stern is scrambling to get parts and “we” all are competing for 10 games production a month, then no. Because that means stick a fork in it.

IBTL (In before the Levi)

If the money is worth half as much, certainly prices on all things would naturally double.

$2 a play for pinball/$5 for 3 games...

I think pinball manufacturers have figured out a long time ago that price is no object to someone that wants a machine. This obviously sucks for people that don't have a big payroll or cash flow, (like me) but for collectors and enthusiasts that were already shelling out $10k, $12k, $15k, etc. no big deal for them.

People on here, facebook, and other places will always complain about price increases until they're blue in the face. But ultimately, for every person that complains, two people will be fine with paying the price increase if it's a machine they want.

Do I think it's a good thing prices increase? No, since it squeezes out the "poor" people more, and also that higher prices doesn't equal higher quality.

Might be the only common sense post I have read on here in a long time. Agree 100%. I can pay $10k + for a game, but just refuse to do it. Just not worth it for me as I can spend that money in better places. I also refuse to pay $4000 for a sorcerer, so I am kind of out of the game either forever or until prices go down which will probably never happen. I do feel sorry for low income people who would love a room full of NIB games, but there is always location play for them.

Hey, I've seen your comment before, did you just paste it in on one of the many price increase threads? True statement anyway!!

There's an easy way to find out the answer to your question. Stern has recently built machines like Batman 66 SLE and EHOH 40th anniversary. Is the build quality any higher than the other versions? Price was of no concern on those.

Whats this? A pinball pricing thread? I've never seen one of these before. Great idea!

FFS

The big question is how many units they actually produce and sell and what the price ceiling is for the number of pins they produce.
Right now it seems way too low, given the backlog and scalping.

How many $25k Elvira 40th were made and sold? These are definitely pins for the “money is no concern” customers.

But the bread and butter pro/premium machines, which should be built at much larger numbers than totally price insensitive enthusiasts exist, will have a price ceiling that will prevent sales.

I don’t think it’s $10k like now.

But it’s likely less than $20k. I for example would not buy a new Stern for more than $12k today. If next year’s profit sharing, bonus and pay raise from my employer suck, I may just bail on my GZ pre-order as I may not feel comfortable blowing that cash on a pin then.

But if Stern can sell them for $15k or more, they absolutely should.

To everybody posting: Please no demand curve diagrams.

Same for me. My limit is about one month's take home pay from my day job. 12 years ago I bought a WH20 and a NGG together for about one month's pay. Now one game alone is closer to 1.5 month's pay, and my pay has increased 60+% in 12 years. Small sample size, but on those particular games, they've increased about 7x faster than my income. So they are no longer worth the hours of time I spend working to make the money to pay for them. I have no bills, everything I own is paid for, but I get more fun per dollar in pretty much anything else I purchase.

I think I wore him out in the Deposit Flipper thread.

I scroll down and scroll down just hoping for Levi's response....nothing. I'm bummed. Please hurry Levi!!

It take him some time to copy and paste his default response.

Fair point. I wish he had nothing else to do but respond to these threads.

Yes, it’s called the Pro/Premium/LE model. But your implied question in your first post is “Will Stern finally stop cutting costs now that their profits are at an all-time high?” I kinda doubt it, but there are a few encouraging signs, like the playfield support pegs going away. Also I’m not sure how much more cool stuff you could pack into Godzilla Premium, the game is loaded.

You read and you read... and yet you STILL felt the need to make ANOTHER pricing thread. You should read more.

Chill out guys…The op has a point here…and to be honest this bubble is full to bursting…but I’ll be back on in a few hours…going to grab some lunch with Kendra

I think that was as far as I had to read and it was "case closed" for me.

The biggest scheme they pulled off was the Pro-Prem-LE tier. Make the "old base" game the "Premium", jack the price, cut out some toys and code features, call that the "Pro" but sell it at the "old baseline" price. Absolute genius.

Waiting for the new Pinside subthread: Economics of Pinball

I’m just hoping that things go back to normal for operators:
The average player PAYS a few bucks to enjoy the operators machine that costs nearly 10k.
The player gets a value because they otherwise would not have access. They are paying for a service, an amusement.

Pinball became affordable and trendy and people figured “I could buy one for 3k and save myself the few hundred bucks of coin drop I’d spend over the months at my local bar.”

Now the machines are quickly rising out of reach for the average person so it again becomes more economical to pay the operator for the amusement/entertainment value of their machine.
$10 for a handful of fun games on a brand new machine is more affordable than 10k for a machine delivered in 2 years.

SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL OPERATORS. ESPECIALLY IF THEY MAINTAIN THEIR MACHINES.

Price increase is a good thing if you’re a seller….bad if you’re a buyer

Haha so true! A few miles from where I live is a barcade that charges $10 entry with all games set to free play. They have all the latest Sterns and JJP games, so for $10 a visit, you can play GnR, Wonka, GZ LE, Rush LE, Mando, AIQ, DP, JP and older games (including the CGC remakes) for many hours.
That’s how I knew I wanted a GZ, because I could play it for a loooong time.
$10k would pay for three years of barcade free play on all these tier-A games so buying one is not a financially sound decision for me, just an indulgence.

That depends. If you have a decent collection, you can sell a game to buy a game. I now I'm doing it, and this is fun!

Now, if you want 20+ games, well, good luck with that.

CSI had 3 great toys: the skull lock ramp, the centrifuge and the microscope. Stern went on to sell more units than any game in history. Wait, that’s not right…

Yeah it sounds like nonsense when you say it that way because it is. There are so many flaws in this post and most pricing posts. One classic game after another has a single significant toy - Theater of Magic, Attack from Mars, Whitewater, on and on. I would argue Godzilla Premium is as packed as anything we’ve ever seen including Twilight Zone.

The machines have increased BOM over the last few years and it’s probably as much related to increased sales volume as increased prices. Businesses that teade higher margins for lower volume are often profitable but don’t grow because you can’t spend margin % and the actual $ aren’t available for continued investment.

Three things that people need to start acknowledging in these posts:

1. A modern pinball machine is an extremely complex machine using a significant amount of mechanical engineering and computer programming using hand assembly in the USA. In what world does anyone think that should cost $3,500? You don’t “deserve” to have a pinball machine in your house it’s an extreme luxury and the only period it wasn’t priced that way was a decade long period where the industry was almost dying and demand was low. The comment above about the value of playing on location vs at home is about the smartest analysis I’ve seen yet.

2. The price of older, limited supply used things is connected to the price of the new things. Simple concept no one seems to understand. If a new Stern Pro is $6,500 why would anyone continue to value a Demolition Man at $2,500? I see people complain about older games prices rising and it makes no sense.

3. Inflation is pervasive worldwide. That especially will effect luxury items with growing demand. Prices have gone up significantly in the last few years and wait times for new games have gone up by 5, 10 or 12x. Stop saying this is going to hurt the market or make claims they priced too high and will ruin everything. It makes zero sense. Demand is higher than ever and not slowing down. That’s for everything not just pinball.

1000x ack!!! When I lift the playfield of my WoZ, I’m blown away that machines like this aren’t more expensive. Comparing this with other complex products, pinball machines, from a engineering, complexity, assembly perspective are a really good deal. Their handicap is that they are toys for a niche market so there’s only so much this market can bear. The CE versions try to expand the price ceiling. Successfully.

What’s interesting is what non-pinball people think these games cost. About once a year I’ll ask a newbie what they think the games cost. The answer has almost always been right around $5000 for the last 20 years. They were too high in 2000, but they’re too low now.

Oh, and Rush Premium has 3 great toys: the drum clock, the Time Machine magnet mech, and the lock behind the drop targets.

My point about CSI was that lots of toys don’t guarantee a blockbuster game. But honestly I miss my CSI.

I agree, but would alter this to only operators that maintain their machines. Broke ass machine = no plays from me. Operators are suffering due to the increased cost of games and lack of increased price to play. But, we already have a thread discussing that further.

“We have so much money let’s add more cost to our product for the customer’s benefit,” said no company ever. Nice thought though.

Was nice the first 100 times too.

Anything that Elwin is designing seems to be worth the price increase.

Well someone pm’d me and said it was bad form to clone Levi for 1 joke post and that they thought I was him for a minute.

I mean I’m certainly crazy…but I’ll never be able to fill those shoes…and I learned a thing or 2 about horsepower

Now back to Jack Tripper and co.

Ok, I realize this is a pricing thread, and I realize how mediocre CSI is. However…

Remember the first time you saw the skull lock work in real life? That was freaking cool. The first time I played CSI was at a pizza shop in Maine while on vacation. As I walked away after 5 games that lock stood out in my mind as one of those things in pinball that makes me smile.

Yeah, I agree - one of the best mechs Stern ever designed, and Skull Multiball is really fun. I think the theme was the reason it didn’t do as well. I can still hear those evidence callouts: “Maggots.” “Flies.” lol!

There's just only so much excitement to be generated by "microscope multiball."

The dregs of the Stern bargain-bin license era.

The code was what really killed it for me, especially that 1-shot “wizard mode”. I bet it would still do great on location though, if the location mostly had players.

Dude. Your so full of $heet!.

Godzilla parts are few and far between other way cheaper games with more in them.
Lame post. Lame thread. Enough of the price gouge statements as it by now well known these spike turds only cost 3k or less any fkn model.
The extra is all Greed increased to follow the buy and flip scalpers part. Why leave money on table for them stern thinks

At some point the flippers will be holding thier stock NIB and not getting more than msrp.
Can not wait for that to happen to these fkn scalpers...
Some turd bought 2 nib Godle somehow and flipped both for 16k.. Hope he gets some bad universe karma for scalping pinball toys. Damn prick.

My go-to example in any discussion of good vs. bad callouts. AIQ definitely rocking those microscope vibes.

Wait I am confused. Are you saying that a pinball machine should cost $3,000? Or that the cost to manufacture is $3,000?

+1. My JP was supposed to ship this past Dec. I'm not even sure if I'll see it this year ?
What's worse ,is I see some Fuck Face Flipper selling a NIB here on Pinside.

I like this so much: FFF.