(Topic ID: 290212)

Price gouging

By Crumbalimb

3 years ago


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    There are 204 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 5.
    #101 3 years ago
    Quoted from metallik:

    This is basically it. Stern knows there's enough high-end collectors with OCD who simply can't stand having a gap in the topper lineup, so they'll pay a thousand bucks for $50 worth of plastic and LEDs.
    Adding a gameplay mode was even more genius. Writing the mode is a one-time cost, and the mode can be tweaked and recycled for the next game at minimal additional cost. Y'all keep watering Stern's money tree buying these toppers LOL fine by me if it helps keep the pro game prices lower...

    Yes and don't forget Stern's #1 topper shill - you know the buy, buy, buy guy that all the lemmings follow

    #102 3 years ago
    Quoted from whthrs166:

    If human kind completely abandons pinball, the cats would take over.

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    #103 3 years ago
    Quoted from Zablon:

    I'm buying beanie babies. They WILL make a come back!!! :p

    Psst... Hey bro, whatchu need, I gotchu. First one's free bro...

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    #104 3 years ago

    Skimming this thread, I see some themes.

    If someone sells an item for more than you feel is fair, they are somehow morally suspect.

    No one agrees on who gets to make the determination of what is and is not morally suspect behavior. Mostly, it appears to be if the item is one you desire and someone else possesses.

    JJP has done a great job of screwing their distributors by selling direct to customers with no deference to the distributors. This pits an uninformed public against the distributors. They have an issue with lack of communication. Note that Spooky has both direct sales and distributors and we don't see people bitching about it.

    Some people here really like cats.

    #105 3 years ago
    Quoted from Nevus:

    Skimming this thread, I see some themes.
    If someone sells an item for more than you feel is fair, they are somehow morally suspect.
    No one agrees on who gets to make the determination of what is and is not morally suspect behavior. Mostly, it appears to be if the item is one you desire and someone else possesses.
    JJP has done a great job of screwing their distributors by selling direct to customers with no deference to the distributors. This pits an uninformed public against the distributors. They have an issue with lack of communication. Note that Spooky has both direct sales and distributors and we don't see people bitching about it.
    Some people here really like cats.

    You forgot "if you buy pinball machines to use as anything other than food, you are rich and shouldn't be concerned about saving money anywhere, pig."

    #106 3 years ago

    The biggest problem with the "New Popularity" of pinball is the massive influx of noobs who have money and no time... so NIB and HUO is as popular as ever, and these noobs tend to drive prices into the stratosphere... So now the old phucks like myself sit back and watch the bubble get bigger and bigger, wondering what is going to be the event that triggers the " massive sell offs" that I expect will eventually come. Whether that is a time based trigger, or a economic based one, or a "its broke and nobody knows how to fix it" scenario, pinball popularity will eventually crash again. Either way, who on this next big wave of price diving sell offs is going to snatch up all these machines and sit on them until pinball once agian finds its luster? You used to be able to find barn fulls of old pinball machines, rusted, rotted, and roached into oblivion... will the trend this next time around be cobweb filled game rooms of toppered machines? Time will tell.

    #107 3 years ago
    Quoted from Crumbalimb:

    ... On Ebay a vender is selling Elvira toppers for $1500.00!!! ...

    Too funny. Several Ebay 'last-chance' items were sent to me this weekend. Looking at what was offered, I find Orange County Pinballs is selling the Black Knight Topper for $3,499.00 - Buy It Now. My mind spun for a bit and may continue for the remainder of the day.

    #108 3 years ago
    Quoted from RockfordReplay:

    Too funny. Several Ebay 'last-chance' items were sent to me this weekend. Looking at what was offered, I find Orange County Pinballs is selling the Black Knight Topper for $3,499.00 - Buy It Now. My mind spun for a bit and may continue for the remainder of the day.

    I really want to meet the guy who pays $3500 for a BKSoR topper. I want to reassure him, make him feel comfortable, get him to trust me, and just when he thinks its ok to turn his back on me, I'll have him in a straight jacket so fast and on his way to the looney bin, because, that there is a man in need of a pinball intervention.

    10
    #109 3 years ago

    Oh, for heaven's sake.

    Language is all we have. Without it, we'd all still be living in caves and grunting.

    As such, words have meaning, and when those meanings get blurred, it is a loss.

    Thus, I repeat at the risk of getting modded for being a broken record: one cannot "price gouge" on a luxury item. No one was ever forced to overpay on a topper in order to survive.

    And the sad truth is, some people have money to burn, and those who struggle cannot imagine how badly the former NEED that topper.

    It's like all that Supreme crap. Supreme used to mean "the best." Now it just means a fad on white things with a red logo, with artificial scarcity.

    #110 3 years ago
    Quoted from Bublehead:

    The biggest problem with the "New Popularity" of pinball is the massive influx of noobs who have money and no time... so NIB and HUO is as popular as ever, and these noobs tend to drive prices into the stratosphere... So now the old phucks like myself sit back and watch the bubble get bigger and bigger, wondering what is going to be the event that triggers the " massive sell offs" that I expect will eventually come. Whether that is a time based trigger, or a economic based one, or a "its broke and nobody knows how to fix it" scenario, pinball popularity will eventually crash again. Either way, who on this next big wave of price diving sell offs is going to snatch up all these machines and sit on them until pinball once agian finds its luster? You used to be able to find barn fulls of old pinball machines, rusted, rotted, and roached into oblivion... will the trend this next time around be cobweb filled game rooms of toppered machines? Time will tell.

    I've only been on pinside for under a year but have read a LOT of posts, some going back years and the "pinball price bubble" was a recurring theme even back when the machines were going for 1/2 the current prices.

    #111 3 years ago

    If this so-called bubble is ever going to pop, the post-Covid return of doing things outside one's place of residence might do it.

    #112 3 years ago
    Quoted from The_Pump_House:

    I've only been on pinside for under a year but have read a LOT of posts, some going back years and the "pinball price bubble" was a recurring theme even back when the machines were going for 1/2 the current prices.

    Pinball prices started to rise around 2003 and never stopped. There was indeed a bubble burst around the mid 90's to 2000 when you couldn't give them away to but a very few. I stopped buying pins at that point because of other priorities and noting the increase in prices. Unfortunately(?) I was sucked back in when TBL was announced and haven't been able to stay away!

    #113 3 years ago
    Quoted from Zablon:

    haven't been able to stay away!

    Tell me about it...

    #114 3 years ago
    Quoted from zpinman370:

    Yes and don't forget Stern's #1 topper shill - you know the buy, buy, buy guy that all the lemmings follow

    But does he sell toppers or NIBs for more than MSRP?......

    #115 3 years ago

    I have enjoyed reading all the comments here, but I still feel a tad guilty that I made a profit on the JJPPOTCSE I sold. I am used to just losing 500 bucks or so anytime I am done with a game.

    But even when I sell a game for a loss, it was still a win-win, I had fun without leaving home, and the beer here is cheaper than the bars, and I don't drink and drive anyway.

    I have 3 games with toppers, and they all came with the games. I would never pay extra for a topper, although maybe I need to look into that, because it seems toppers may go up in value.

    #116 3 years ago
    Quoted from ZMeny:

    But does he sell toppers or NIBs for more than MSRP?......

    Zach, your a dealer and you know what games and toppers are worth, What’s a dealers perspective on you selling a topper or le knowing you could get more if you order a bunch and hold out or wait for the right time to get more money.Is that business as normal, or is that a cash grab squeezing the most out of customers. My outside looking in viewpoint is that’s a bad long term business strategy because you would probably loose repeat customers. Or because your buying and putting out a lot of cash for games and toppers you should get the extra cash and not random people flipping.

    #117 3 years ago

    Price gouging:

    Some people like giving things up the arse

    Some people like taking things up the arse

    Economics 101 or just batshit crazy? Plastic flippin toppers are not worth over $500 no matter how many shiny lights it has or how limited it is. The only toppers I own came with the games I purchased, toppers are over-rated and things have gotten so out of control with pricing-all I can do is shake my head in disgust. I literally cannot fathom why someone would spend thousands of dollars on a piece of plastic instead of another pinball machine or something worthy?

    It blows my mind how people are getting swept up in this artificial collectability scheme.

    Is the BKSOR topper cool-yes it is. It has flickering flames and it is shiny. Is it worth $2500+-hell no-that's pinball machine $,Supply and demand? or mainly newbies purchasing six-figure collections in one year and having to have matching toppers(must have-will pay anything)? Newbies setting absurdly high prices on second hand market hoping they stick or is it the evil distributors? Seems to be only one or two distributors selling above msrp-so not really the problem imo. If I owned a BKSOR topper and wanted to sell it, sorry but I wound not sell for what market will take but would sell for what I think is fair. Yes someone will probably buy at price gouging sales price because of hyped up demand but is it really worth it? To me a plastic topper does not justify price gouging(pathetic) but an actual playing pinball machine-umm I guess so(I have overpaid for a few)? I guess I can handle pinball price gouging(20K GNR?)-nothing new here, but I have yet to get used to the plastic topper gouging fiasco(BKSOR 2500+?-wtf)

    One good thing about price gouging is it takes the monies out of the deep pockets that may have otherwise bought another machine instead of a plastic topper and thus making the market get even more crazy. For those of you selling and buying $2500+ plastic toppers-way to go and kudos to you. For those of you who know better-keep looking for decent deals(don't get caught up in the hype)-they do still exist. I feel fortunate that my collection is nearly complete and I feel I have been there done that and purchased the majority of my games when prices were somewhat normal.
    (Also want to say that some of the distributors mentioned here are really stand up guys and have nothing to do with bs price gouging)

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    #118 3 years ago
    Quoted from pinmister:Price gouging:
    Some people like giving things up the arse
    Some people like taking things up the arse
    Economics 101 or just batshit crazy? Plastic flippin toppers are not worth over $500 no matter how many shiny lights it has or how limited it is. The only toppers I own came with the games I purchased, toppers are over-rated and things have gotten so out of control with pricing-all I can do is shake my head in disgust. I literally cannot fathom why someone would spend thousands of dollars on a piece of plastic instead of another pinball machine or something worthy?
    It blows my mind how people are getting swept up in this artificial collectability scheme.
    Is the BKSOR topper cool-yes it is. It has flickering flames and it is shiny. Is it worth $2500+-hell no-that's pinball machine $,Supply and demand? or mainly newbies purchasing six-figure collections in one year and having to have matching toppers(must have-will pay anything)? Newbies setting absurdly high prices on second hand market hoping they stick or is it the evil distributors? Seems to be only one or two distributors selling above msrp-so not really the problem imo. If I owned a BKSOR topper and wanted to sell it, sorry but I wound not sell for what market will take but would sell for what I think is fair. Yes someone will probably buy at price gouging sales price because of hyped up demand but is it really worth it? To me a plastic topper does not justify price gouging(pathetic) but an actual playing pinball machine-umm I guess so(I have overpaid for a few)? I guess I can handle pinball price gouging(20K GNR?)-nothing new here, but I have yet to get used to the plastic topper gouging fiasco(BKSOR 2500+?-wtf)
    One good thing about price gouging is it takes the monies out of the deep pockets that may have otherwise bought another machine instead of a plastic topper and thus making the market get even more crazy. For those of you selling and buying $2500+ plastic toppers-way to go and kudos to you. For those of you who know better-keep looking for decent deals(don't get caught up in the hype)-they do still exist. I feel fortunate that my collection is nearly complete and I feel I have been there done that and purchased the majority of my games when prices were somewhat normal.
    (Also want to say that some of the distributors mentioned here are really stand up guys and have nothing to do with bs price gouging) [quoted image]

    All well and good, but their is no such thing as price gouging on a luxury item. This whole thread should be deleted really.

    Notice OP had not come on and said he would sell his house or other items below market value. Only matters on something he/r wants...

    #119 3 years ago

    price gouging (noun);
    -an act or instance of charging customers too high a price for goods or services, especially when demand is high and supplies are limited.

    The OP is fine as price gouging may be considered exploitative and unethical. It's good to experience discussions of this nature; it helps define and re-define life's boundaries of ethics and integrity.

    #120 3 years ago
    Quoted from RockfordReplay:

    price gouging (noun);
    -an act or instance of charging customers too high a price for goods or services, especially when demand is high and supplies are limited.
    The OP is fine as price gouging may be considered exploitative and unethical. It's good to experience discussions of this nature; it helps define and re-define life's boundaries of ethics and integrity.

    Unethical only for those not willing to pay what they consider absurd pricing.

    Marketing 101 for sellers who value money more than limited item they own.

    Price gouging to masses who want but cannot afford.

    #121 3 years ago
    Quoted from Bublehead:

    The biggest problem with the "New Popularity" of pinball is the massive influx of noobs who have money and no time... so NIB and HUO is as popular as ever, and these noobs tend to drive prices into the stratosphere... So now the old phucks like myself sit back and watch the bubble get bigger and bigger, wondering what is going to be the event that triggers the " massive sell offs" that I expect will eventually come. Whether that is a time based trigger, or a economic based one, or a "its broke and nobody knows how to fix it" scenario, pinball popularity will eventually crash again. Either way, who on this next big wave of price diving sell offs is going to snatch up all these machines and sit on them until pinball once agian finds its luster? You used to be able to find barn fulls of old pinball machines, rusted, rotted, and roached into oblivion... will the trend this next time around be cobweb filled game rooms of toppered machines? Time will tell.

    This is super true. More reason to buy new games as opposed to older games. I really think the market will keep shifting where you will see DMD games (that aren't considered GOAT's) go cheaper and cheaper.

    #122 3 years ago

    Price Gouging??? On a luxury item? What a joke!!! Charging $10 for a needed roll of toilet paper? THAT is price gouging.

    Seriously, what function of a pinball machine is the topper making better? OOH, it flashes some light! I thought the $499 price point was ridiculous for a piece of plastic. That Ghostbusters topper looked like a Fisher Price made toy. I am probably one of the biggest KISS fans on this board, but do I own the KISS topper on my KISS LE? Nope, looks stupid to me.

    Pinball seems to be trending much like automobiles. Am I ok with a base model Ford Escape SE(Stern Pro)? or do I have to have every bell and whistle as the Lincoln Corsair ( Stern LE or JJP CE)? Doesn't matter which one you have, they both serve the purpose of getting from point A to point B.

    Then I equate the toppers to these aftermarket wheels that people put on their vehicle. Yep, those wheels bring the bling, can be expensive, and serve no more than cosmetic purpose. Those wheels make ZERO difference in getting from point A to point B, they just add style.

    These topper prices are no different that say $18K for a Big Lebowski. This isn't price gouging, it's more like stupid money.

    Nobody has to have a pinball, nobody has to have a topper. However, we all need to wipe our asses.

    Now please excuse me while I go pick up a project EM today.

    #123 3 years ago

    Remember, at some point utility crosses over to art. The $25 of materials is worth $100 when it's solving a utility function since competition will make a competitive market. However it's worth WHATEVER a buyer is willing to pay if it becomes a limited availability item or a piece of ART. I remember last fall people selling the Jurassic Park lit amber shooters for $400 because they were impossible to get. Today they are back to $139 MSRP. Availability and Creative can drive prices to whatever the market is willing to pay.

    #124 3 years ago
    Quoted from underlord:

    Unethical only for those not willing to pay what they consider absurd pricing.
    Marketing 101 for sellers who value money more than limited item they own.
    Price gouging to masses who want but cannot afford.

    Understood. I'm with ya'; it's an opinionated situation - to each their own. However; I suspect a community as a whole will not nominate and provide a price gouger with an award for honesty and integrity.

    Quoted from vdojaq:

    ...However, we all need to wipe our asses.

    Depending on perspective; we may not realize how much of a luxury item toilet paper is. It's funny; most of humanity has existed without toilet paper. Many populations on the globe currently survive without it.

    #125 3 years ago

    Price Gouging or Parental Guidance?

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    #126 3 years ago
    Quoted from RockfordReplay:

    It's funny; most of humanity has existed without toilet paper. Many populations on the globe currently survive without it.

    This and Covid is why I don't shake hands anymore.

    15
    #127 3 years ago

    I agree the term price gouging is not intended to be applied to non-essential items being sold to an audience that is not captive. Regardless, I will use the term here since it seems to be the only term that is resignating.

    I paid $1700 for a TAF in 2002.
    I sold it for $3000 in 2006.
    If I hadn't sold it and was selling it now I would be asking around $8000 for it. Was $3000 price gouging in 2006? Would $8000 be price gouging now?

    I would call either sale price *fair market value* for its time, which is simply a nicer way of saying *what the market would/will bare*.

    If new toppers stop selling for $1000 the price will come down or perhaps toppers will stop being offered by OEM's. If they sell out when priced at $1000 they will generally sell for even more in the aftermarket. Dealers left with a couple in stock will raise their price to meet this increased market value (see PBL's *outrageously* priced NIB KISS topper selling for $900 a couple years ago).
    Further, if the previous machine's topper sold out at $1000, you can expect the next machine's topper to sell for $1250 from the git-go.

    It's all stuff no one needs, so expect the price of toppers and machines to fluctuate between $0.00 and the-sky-is-the-limit.

    No new news here, but still fun to discuss every now and then.

    #128 3 years ago
    Quoted from pinballlife:

    I agree the term price gouging is not intended to be applied to non-essential items being sold to an audience that is not captive. Regardless, I will use the term here since it seems to be the only term that is resignating.
    I paid $1700 for a TAF in 2002.
    I sold it for $3000 in 2006.
    If I hadn't sold it and was selling it now I would be asking around $8000 for it. Was $3000 price gouging in 2006? Would $8000 be price gouging now?
    I would call either sale price *fair market value* for its time, which is simply a nicer way of saying *what the market would/will bare*.
    If new toppers stop selling for $1000 the price will come down or perhaps toppers will stop being offered by OEM's. If they sell out when priced at $1000 they will generally sell for even more in the aftermarket. Dealers left with a couple in stock will raise their price to meet this increased market value (see PBL's *outrageously* priced NIB KISS topper selling for $900 a couple years ago).
    Further, if the previous machine's topper sold out at $1000, you can expect the next machine's topper to sell for $1250 from the git-go.
    It's all stuff no one needs, so expect the price of toppers and machines to fluctuate between $0.00 and the-sky-is-the-limit.
    No new news here, but still fun to discuss every now and then.

    Amazing how so many people dont get it. Nice post.

    #129 3 years ago
    Quoted from Roostking:

    Amazing how so many people dont get it. Nice post.

    I’m sure they get it. Just don’t want it. Heck, I’m torn every now and then on selling my stuff for all the money or keeping it remembering that I may need to pay all the money if I want it back.

    Oh what a tangled luxury item web we weave!

    My other hobbies include high end ship modeling and hot rods. Wife says they’re too expensive until I buy her what she likes or upgrade the house. Lol.

    And let’s not talk about my six day work weeks for last 20 years so I can afford this stoopid shit.

    -1
    #130 3 years ago
    Quoted from vdojaq:

    Price Gouging??? On a luxury item? What a joke!!! Charging $10 for a needed roll of toilet paper? THAT is price gouging.
    Seriously, what function of a pinball machine is the topper making better? OOH, it flashes some light! I thought the $499 price point was ridiculous for a piece of plastic. That Ghostbusters topper looked like a Fisher Price made toy. I am probably one of the biggest KISS fans on this board, but do I own the KISS topper on my KISS LE? Nope, looks stupid to me.
    Pinball seems to be trending much like automobiles. Am I ok with a base model Ford Escape SE(Stern Pro)? or do I have to have every bell and whistle as the Lincoln Corsair ( Stern LE or JJP CE)? Doesn't matter which one you have, they both serve the purpose of getting from point A to point B.
    Then I equate the toppers to these aftermarket wheels that people put on their vehicle. Yep, those wheels bring the bling, can be expensive, and serve no more than cosmetic purpose. Those wheels make ZERO difference in getting from point A to point B, they just add style.
    These topper prices are no different that say $18K for a Big Lebowski. This isn't price gouging, it's more like stupid money.
    Nobody has to have a pinball, nobody has to have a topper. However, we all need to wipe our asses.
    Now please excuse me while I go pick up a project EM today.

    You must live in a priviledged part of the world if you think toilet paper is a necessity! Toilet paper is a luxury!

    #131 3 years ago
    Quoted from Zablon:

    You must live in a priviledged part of the world if you think toilet paper is a necessity! Toilet paper is a luxury!

    Did you not notice what happened to toilet paper when this whole covid thing started? I live in the United States of America. In our culture, YES, toilet paper is a necessity.

    #132 3 years ago

    Enough of one to get price gouged, anyway.

    I'm going to have to drain this thread before I gouge my eyes out!

    #133 3 years ago

    Brothers and sisters, for a luxury item, you be you and spend what you want.

    If it brings you happiness, you can afford it and your life/family doesn't suffer - go for it.

    If you think of it as an investment I offer this reminder from the art world. It is good to have first world problems .

    http://www.vggallery.com/painting/p_0753.htm

    -5
    #134 3 years ago
    Quoted from vdojaq:

    Did you not notice what happened to toilet paper when this whole covid thing started? I live in the United States of America. In our culture, YES, toilet paper is a necessity.

    In cultured parts of the world they use natural resources. Hands.

    #135 3 years ago
    Quoted from Zablon:

    In cultured parts of the world they use natural resources. Hands.

    You are very welcome to partake in those cultured parts of the world. You and I must have a very different view of what is or isn't accepted culture. If you believe wiping one's ass with the bare hand is an acceptable or cultured practice here in the United States, you may need a little more domestic culturing. I am also pretty sure that pinball toppers are pretty much the lowest of the lows on any list that is in one of these cultures you speak of.

    So I stand by my original thought, here in the United States culture, toilet paper IS a necessity and a Pinball Topper is not. May I suggest some Lysol Wipes for your machines.

    #137 3 years ago

    Price gouging refers to anything of necessity during times of need. TP during the start of the pandemic for example.....
    Nothing pinball related is ever of necessity and therefore cannot be price gouged.

    #139 3 years ago

    man you peoples sarcasm meters are way out of whack.

    #140 3 years ago
    Quoted from Zablon:

    man you peoples sarcasm meters are way out of whack.

    #141 3 years ago
    Quoted from Zablon:

    man you peoples sarcasm meters are way out of whack.

    Ya gotta hand it to them!

    #142 3 years ago

    Key fobs will be next. Mark this post. $1000 key fobs by next christmas.

    #143 3 years ago

    I am still waiting for the guy who has something everyone wants but sells it under market price “because it’s the right thing to do”

    #144 3 years ago
    Quoted from EricHadley:I am still waiting for the guy who has something everyone wants but sells it under market price “because it’s the right thing to do”

    LOL, me too. People clearly have lost touch with reality.

    #145 3 years ago
    Quoted from EricHadley:

    I am still waiting for the guy who has something everyone wants but sells it under market price “because it’s the right thing to do”

    Its not something everybody wants but I'm giving away a free, fully working game tomorrow. True story.

    #146 3 years ago
    Quoted from Mr68:

    Its not something everybody wants but I'm giving away a free, fully working game tomorrow. True story.

    Nice! What is it? Story? Do Tell!

    #147 3 years ago
    Quoted from pinballlife:

    Dealers left with a couple in stock will raise their price to meet this increased market value (see PBL's *outrageously* priced NIB KISS topper selling for $900 a couple years ago).

    You probably had that kiss topper for a while before you raised pricing, the topper was out of production at least a month if not years. Fair market value on something like that makes sense. Some dealers do it within days (or they know its selling out so they raise pricing on the final batch they receive). OR Like with my previous post the game was still in production (but being new I didn't realize this).

    I think its more on a case by case basis. That window for having supply isn't what it used to be. Especially now since manufactures are having a tough time keeping up.

    #148 3 years ago
    Quoted from Zablon:

    man you peoples sarcasm meters are way out of whack.

    You realized your point was ridiculous and no one was buying it so trying to save face by saying it was sarcasm is doing you any better?

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    #149 3 years ago

    I got a steal on my topper for my Gottlieb Central Park.... $65 bucks delivered

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    #150 3 years ago

    I wasn't kidding...

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