911 made. There are only 3 Pinsiders with this game listed on Pinside. Backglass animation on the shuffle board. That playfield glass will need to be replaced, it has 2 broken corners.

It is going to be tough in estimating a value. How is the rest of the game, cabinet condition? Playfield and Backglass look really good.

900 is my estimate. Interesting and cool but quickly boring play.

Talk about quick ball time. Look at that flipper arrangement.

From the photos, the condition looks amazing, especially the backglass. It looks like the shooter gauge is missing though; but that's only a $35 part.
Not one you see often. I had a chance to buy one once, but the backglass was bad, and it looked uninspiring to play. I've never played one, so maybe I'm wrong. Woodrail prices in general are coming down with only the best titles in good condition retaining value. I'd say it's worth at least $700-800 if the cabinet is reasonably good.

The playfield looks so boring but the back glass makes up for it. What a contrast.

That would be FAR too high. With the exception of a handful of collectors who specialize in such games, there's virtually no market for the games of this era. I'd be surprised if it sold for $250 on the open market.

Would be interesting to play that game.

$900? That's not going to happen. More like $400 AT MOST.

If for nothing more than the condition, I'd plunk down $250 for that game in a second if the cabinet is reasonably good.

Quite a few years ago I had this title. The backglass was in poor condition. A very well known
(at the time) woodrail collector was lacking just a few woodrail titles to complete his collection.
Double Shuffle was one of them. He agreed that he would find me a nice Flipper Cowboy if
I found a nice backglass. I had a backglass made (came out nice), and I acquired my first Flipper
Cowboy. I know what he paid for the Flipper Cowboy. To him, at that time, this title was worth
quite a bit to have in his collection..

Rarity and condition count for something. These are historical pieces, not just amusement devices. You have to think outside the box a little when it comes to games almost seventy years old. The fact that this piece has survived in this condition for so long is pretty amazing.

Very true. After getting the backglass made, it was in just about the same condition as another
1949 machine that you're aware of..
I haven't givin' it a thought, but now that I think of it, I haven't seen that original backglass since
back then. Not sure what happened to it. It's on file. I just may have another made just to have..

I kind of miss the days when collectors seemed to focus on collecting a series. The "fairy tale" sales or all the Gottlieb AAB "Fipper" series. I know Rob Berk has or had the Williams "styling of the sixties" games. I was kind of thinking this game has to fill a slot in someone's collection but then I'm not sure many do that sort of thing anymore.

I'm still one of them that has that focus. I've had mutiple sets of the Flipper series and still have
all of a full set, just haven't had them set up yet, but they will be. I also focused on the true 2
Player Gottlieb AAB machines, which I'm proud to say that I recently accomplished..

Although I loved the series Gilligan's Island, the pinball machine didn't do much for me.

There are alot of folks like that Alex...they just aren't on Spinside. The forum world has been fractured into so many slices, and so many have just grown tired of posting that IMO it's hard to reach everyone anymore. I think maybe you're just harkening back to the late 90s/early aughts when collectors first started discovering the internet, and you had lots of old timers all posting. Most forum people are relative noobs today...

And as far as this title...lol - I love all the "experts" who've never played this title who say it looks boring. I agree!! Keep those woodrail prices low for me guys!! I'll keep buying them up cheap... ) Hmmm...Utah isn't really THAT for away when you think about it...

You never see that title and I think it looks like there's alot more than meets the eye...and that's because woodrail after woodrail surprises me again and again as you slowly discover new things about each title as you restore, then eventually start playing them.

Sean

When I said the playfield looked boring I was mostly referring to the art. And it's not terrible, just not as dynamic as a lot of the games from this era. I'm always drawn to the art first and foremost. Then the gameplay seems to make it or break it for me. I bet it is a good player. Gottlieb was pretty creative in this era with multiple ways to win and none of them easy. Like you say though this is the time to be a wood rail guy. Most of the new crowd see them as ancient artifacts and a lot of the old timers are full up or scaling back.

Yeah...I understood your comment. It is a remarkable contrast!

Once you get the hang of the weirdly positioned flippers on alot of these early flipper games that they weren't sure what to do with them yet, you start to see some of the cool shots, banks, and rebounds that are created. Of course you need to set the game to a low playfield angle so they will react the way the designers envisioned...which is probably another reason modern pin folks find these boring. The old "crank the back up, and the front down" approach that works OK(IMO!) in 60's and 70's pins makes these type of games seem impossible.

And the art of nudging, which was for the entire history of pins up to just before these pins were produced the primary way to affect ball path, is still a critical part of the strategy...it takes alot of playing(and patience!) to get good at this...nudging on these games takes many different intensities, not to mention knowing when not to. Sure, that's needed in modern pins too, but it's even more important in these older games.

Sean

Sigh. Sorry...

But what is like RGP here on the 'side is all the sensitivity...maybe lighten up? What you see as derogatory I see as accurate and clever...if I do say so myself. LOL This is a moderated forum, which is apparently necessary since people have proven they can't self censor, so therefore you have to "spin" your comments is a positive way.

AND the only time RGP is mentioned here it is derogatorily, so who's offending who again? I rarely see anyone suggest to noobs they search RGP for solutions, even though there's over 20 years of tech help, hints and techniques out there...many of which never made it over here.

And people wonder why so many folks have disappeared...I got a theory...

Sean

This is the EM Forum. I can never recall RGP ever being mentioned in a negative way. I do recall on many occasions it being referred to in a positive way as a reference point for tech help.
I do not need to lighten up but I will continue to be very protective of the tremendous commaderie which exists on this forum & the absence of cute references which seek to belittle or detract from this or other sites dedicated to EMs.

"Can't we all just get along?"

Ha, sometimes in the forums it feels like Mom and Dad are getting in a fight. We're not fighting we're having a "discussion." Sean and Wayne are both great guys.

Eh?

It is true I don't ever recall RGP being regarded negatively. At least not in the Pinside EM group. Well Frank gets mentioned on occasion but we have him here now too. He seems a little better over here though. I guess he has to be.

To change the subject... two weeks to Allentown!

No. We just pretty much disregard it.
It's just like with everything else; a**holes spoil the party for everyone else. Unfortunately, that's why some degree of moderation is required.

Man....EM guys sure are high strung...

Sounds great Wayne!! And I'm gonna keep calling it Spinside because I don't mean it derogatorily...but you certainly took it that way...to each their own! See, I believe there's room for all opinions...and I can't help people's perceptions. They can be wrong in the view of others...and that's OK too.

For example...I perceived many comments about RPG to be negative on this forum, but clearly many don't feel that way...they perceive it differently. Are they wrong? Well I think so, but who gives a rats ass what I think in the end...they sure don't, cause they think they're right too. It's all good man!! )

I agree with Alex...I'm a GREAT guy(lol), and I've watched Wayne's posts and he seems like a great guy too! Like I said, sorry I bent yer wicket with my silly moniker...

See ya at the show Ken!! I hear you'll be hanging around with that Peterson guy...what a crew! The Flipper Pool club... ;o)

Joe - check yer email about this weekend's soiree...unless you didn't get it for some reason? LMK...

Sean

I definitely don't disregard it JR. I really like the RGP archives as the knowledge is well written and also accessible. I also really like the EM group availability of knowledge and that it is so accessible. We need both.

You are so correct and the positive EM group way style works for me as I deal with crap at work all day. Its a relief.

Hope you stay around for a while Sean, I like your honesty and knowledge.

Also Wayne is right too and Cosmokramer is stirring.

maybe if everyone is perceiving a phrase differently then you intend.... then you're using the phrase wrong?

Every time I see this thread title it makes me wonder how much the neighbor is worth.

Some neighbors are worthless and some are priceless. I have some of both types.

It takes lots of alcohol and other various distractions to keep me at an even keel.

That's OK for sure, and I agree that it does have a lot of great information. It's just that a few imbeciles have turned it into a garden overrun with weeds.
I'm perfectly fine with both existing, but I choose not to go there very often anymore if at all. Why all the venom for Pinside over there? I don't see very much going the other way, if any. If I don't like something, I just stay away. No need to constantly bash us here and hope for our demise. And... we did survive Otaku!

I know Sean personally, and can attest that he's a great guy and loves the classic EM games. Wayne is a demi-god here. His restorations and ingenuity are truly outstanding, and his contributions here are always positive and helpful. Guys like him make Pinside enjoyable. The first rule of Pinside is "be nice". Yeah, we all get testy at times, but generally we do have a good group of guys here. The profanity and name calling on the EM sub-forum is minimal to non-existent. This should be fun. It isn't life and death.

Sure, but you're probably in that subset of specialty collectors I mentioned

Even on CL, where most reasonably priced games sell within hours, flipperless games seem to languish, no matter the price.

She do have flippers, but the wrong way! And... the reason flipperless game languish is because they're way overpriced like most other games on ePay.

Oops! You did say CL, not ePay.

I've never sold any of my neighbors so I don't know how much I would ask for one if I did.

That's not what you meant? Then how about this answer:
If I was selling a game I'd charge a neighbor the same as anyone else. No discount just because you live nearby.

Still not what you meant? Man, you sure are hard to please.

Wow............ I said something on this site that someone took offence to, and I was warned I'd be thrown off the site. I guess the PC police on this site pick and choose who can say what. Double standard!!

I don't even know what RPG stands for and is "spinside" a reference to this site?? Hard to get offended when you don't even know what everyone is talking about with all your 3 letter abbreviated codes.

I've seen these listed for $7,500 on Ebay, so...

And yes, Pinsiders do seem to love their acronyms, as if it were some type of insider code. As an airline pilot in a prior life, I was the king of acronyms (take a look: https://www.faa.gov/jobs/abbreviations/ ) That said, now I try to NEVER use acronyms in a post, or at least if I do, spell it out the first time, then put the acronym in parenthesis, so when I use it again later in the post, readers will understand.

RGP means rec.group.pinball, a wonderful Google forum chock full of information. I highly recommend it. Just google RGP pinball.

My thoughts exactly.

Many of you who know me personally have witnessed my transition in the hobby from solid state, to metal rail (wedgehead and reverse) to primarily woodrails. Since I'm in an area where there are several EM enthusiasts a short distance from me, it only makes sense that we each vary our collections so we don't all own the same El Dorados, Central Parks, Bank a Balls, etc.... By some of the definitions assumed on this forum, I would qualify as one of the "old timers" who not only recall playing woodrails in my youth, but having a strong sentimental intrigue in the games with multiple ways to win games and strategy.

A woody collector, like me, would jump at the opportunity to pick up a good Double Shuffle, if nothing else as a parts machine. Original legs, lockdown bars, coin box, tilts, plastics, beehive push rod and ball shooter covers, marbleized bumper caps, etc., are worthwhile if one needs those specific parts for another game. A nice glass, if used as a wall art, is worth some bucks.

Personally, with over 40 games at this time, I don't need another, but if seen in person at the Allentown show, as example, I would agree with others who put it in the $700 range.

I did audition this game several years ago, but passed. Reminds me of a combination of my Barnacle Bill and Twin Bill.

The Barnacle Bill, btw, is perhaps my favorite of that era and somewhat similar lower playfield as regards to a center kicker hole. When I have newbie guests over who are used to the "easier" games of the 60's and 70's+, they shake their head wondering about the 15 second ball times of some of my older games. But then it needs to be demonstrated the concept of a "skill shot" and how one can nudge and put out certain lights in order and light specials. With patience and practice, these old ladies can be tamed. Ditto for Rosebowl, or Frontiersman, etc.....

Barnacle Bill (resized).jpg
Rose Bowl (resized).jpg

tb (resized).jpg

Of the 3 pins you feature above,
I think Twin Bill is the best
having played it the most.

More like complaining, to which I reply, "And...... You're hitting the start button for the 10th time, why??" Only then do they realize there's as much challenge in a single-player EM as most DMD Games, if given the chance.

I can think of several who would gladly pay in the range of $700-$1000 for this title. It's a strange one, with a credit projector, (instead of a reel), and knockoff button.