(Topic ID: 218526)

Price Check: The Big Lebowski


By Mr68

2 years ago



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  • 82 posts
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  • Latest reply 1 year ago by jake35
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There are 82 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 2 years ago

With the recent lawsuit filed against Dutch Pinball, they have shut down production (again) and the consensus is they’re done after this third major setback. People can debate the company’s history but it looks like only the 50 existing machines will survive.

I had two offers to buy my TBL for $20K before the lawsuit. Both offers were declined because they involved trades. In the past few days since the announcement, I have gotten three unsolicited inquiries asking me to sell.

I am considering putting my TBL on Ebay and I still might out of curiosity. But it’s been years since I have sold there and I’m reluctant for all of the usual Ebay reasons. If I do I’ll let Pinside know as I think a lot of people like to follow this type of thing even when its out of their price range.

In anticipation that people might contact me privately with an offer, I have donated today, double the Pinside market fee.

Thanks

#2 2 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

With the recent lawsuit filed against Dutch Pinball, they have shut down production (again) and the consensus is they’re done after this third major setback. People can debate the company’s history but it looks like only the 50 existing machines will survive.
I had two offers to buy my TBL for $20K before the lawsuit. Both offers were declined because they involved trades. In the past few days since the announcement, I have gotten three unsolicited inquiries asking me to sell.
I am considering putting my TBL on Ebay and I still might out of curiosity. But it’s been years since I have sold there and I’m reluctant for all of the usual Ebay reasons. If I do I’ll let Pinside know as I think a lot of people like to follow this type of thing even when its out of their price range.
In anticipation that people might contact me privately, I have donated today, double the Pinside market fee.
Thanks

Just take a quick look at the increase in eBay fees first, not sure when the last increase happened, but it’s a whopper.

#3 2 years ago

Fees are currently at 10.15%, with a cap of $750.

I'd be wary of putting anything high value through ebay because of potential paypal/ebay disputes. Ebay & paypal usually side with buyers, rather than sellers.

#4 2 years ago

Skip ebay.

#5 2 years ago

I think you should hang on to that one a bit longer....

-1
#6 2 years ago

If you can get 20k for it, then take it and run!

I think 15k is more typical for a TBL from what I have seen.

What are there now, 100ish out there and 60 more built and sitting in a warehouse?

#7 2 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I think 15k is more typical for a TBL from what I have seen.
What are there now, 100ish out there and 60 more built and sitting in a warehouse?

Nope. 50ish out there and allegedly 40ish sitting in a warehouse.

When and where did you see the $15k sale?

#8 2 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

With the recent lawsuit filed against Dutch Pinball, they have shut down production (again) and the consensus is they’re done after this third major setback.

Man I really thought there were gonna make it this time

#9 2 years ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

Nope. 50ish out there and allegedly 40ish sitting in a warehouse.
When and where did you see the $15k sale?

check pinside. A few that were asking 20k plus (including Kims which did not sell for months) and the ones that are archived as sold are all 15k or less in many cases

https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/archive?s=1&radius_latitude=43.116930141923994&radius_longitude=-89.32459831237793&keywords=&ad_machine_key=2205&ad_condition=0&machine_type=&ad_machine_manuf=&year_from=&year_to=&radius_distancekm=322&sort_by=ad_end_date&sort_order=DESC#results

actually after reviewing those sales, I would say 14k is fair in current market. TBL has been effectively dead for years now and I dont think the most recent news really changed anyones opinion on value or rarity of the game.

Pinside puts a value of 12.5k on it so I would say somewhere between 12.5 and 15k is the range.

#10 2 years ago

20k offers (even trades) and you passed? what in the......

Do you think you'll get more than 20k for it?

#11 2 years ago

Anything in these games that would be near impossible to replace down the road? I'm thinking plastics, coils, boards, mechanics, etc.? Just for that reason I think it would be worthwhile to sell, take the $$$ and let the future owner worry about that. It's neat to own rare stuff, but when they break, the fun is over.

#12 2 years ago
Quoted from schudel5:

Anything in these games that would be near impossible to replace down the road? I'm thinking plastics, coils, boards, mechanics, etc.? Just for that reason I think it would be worthwhile to sell, take the $$$ and let the future owner worry about that. It's neat to own rare stuff, but when they break, the fun is over.

just game specific parts but board set is all P-roc as I understand it.

What number is this Kim? I know there are some differences in the earlier ones compared to later ones.

#13 2 years ago

The high stakes game of hot potato begins...NOW!

#14 2 years ago

Gotta hand it to 68, the man knows when to hold 'em and knows when to fold 'em!

#15 2 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

check pinside. A few that were asking 20k plus (including Kims which did not sell for months) and the ones that are archived as sold are all 15k or less in many cases

All of those ads including mine were during a time when Dutch Pinball was still a viable company and the promise of future games was something they were working towards. As of a week or so ago, that is no longer true according to DP's own statement.

Quoted from Whysnow:

I dont think the most recent news really changed anyones opinion on value or rarity of the game.

Disagree. DP shutting down changes the entire landscape and it pretty much confirms the rarity at 50 machines. And my guess is that most of the other 49 owners will hunker down now and start to play hardball based on this recent news.

Quoted from Whysnow:

What number is this Kim?

You already looked up my ad but here ya go. EA #20 and you can read my games full description.
https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/archive/61837

Quoted from delt31:

Do you think you'll get more than 20k for it?

I don't know Delt, that's one of the reasons I posted a price check. I hope so, wouldn't that be great, but we'll see.
Mostly behind the scenes, the high end collectors operate with a different mindset then us day to day guys.

#16 2 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I would say 14k is fair in current market. TBL has been effectively dead for years now and I dont think the most recent news really changed anyones opinion on value or rarity of the game. Pinside puts a value of 12.5k on it so I would say somewhere between 12.5 and 15k is the range.

Will be interesting to see how this and other TBL sales go, but I'd bet market price is above $15k now that DP has pounded the final nails into the coffin. If BBB was going for $17k+ with nearly 200 made before remake chatter took off, why would TBL be any cheaper with only ~50 made (~90 if you assume the 40 allegedly sitting in ADA's warehouse ever see the light of day) and such a killer theme?

#17 2 years ago

To be honest, you are in the driver's seat. There are a lot of collectors with deep pockets. If you don't like the game and want to cash out, it's simple; take offers, then with the best offer add a bump and you'll get what you want.

There comes a place and time when the price will level, or only go up incrementally. Sell at the Apex. With the funds, you can get 2-3 super awesome collectibles for the price of 1.

#18 2 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

the high end collectors operate

ummm... I think you are one of those high end collectors?

From what I have seen over the years your collection is amazaballs and all high end stuff.

You are right that there is a whole separate market for the rare and uber rare stuff. I do think the market has spoken pretty clearly based on past sales that 12.5-15k is what you should expect to get.

If you want to compare to other rare stuff you have Alien and MG from recent history. MG has fewer made. Alien has more made.
TBL has the benefit of being P-roc which is a detriment to the others for perceived conductibility/reliability long term.

MG is just a show piece for the collectors of the uber rare and the drama story. I would put it in a different category from TBL and Alien (i.e. it is a crap game but more collectible due to very limited numbers and original sale price pushed the secondary higher)

I think reality is that both Alien and TBL are similar reliability long term and any experienced tech will have no problem keeping them running ling term.
TBL has been frozen in time codewise but Alien got polish. In both cases there are examples of games that are lemons and games that play fine (like yours)

I do think the currently unknown status of both (and 40 already built TBL in storage) will prevent some huge price spike. Either game could be made in great numbers (and a better build iteration) in the future.

Time will tell but given the recency of TBL build, I dont see any major jump coming. It will creep over time, but I dont think the price just jumped 5k due to the recent news. If we are honest, most of us assume they were dead years ago and no more would make it out the door.

Quoted from fosaisu:

why would TBL be any cheaper with only ~50 made

It does not play very well and was just made recently. BBB only sells for 17k+ because of its age combined with rarity.

Give TBL 10 years and it could creep up.

TBL needs to change hands a few more times before more get locked down in hard core collector hands.

#19 2 years ago

If it were mine, I'd put it at 25k and consider up to 10% wiggle room in price for cash on the glass. I would avoid Ebay and go with Pinside,Facebook,Mr.Pinball and maybe CL.
Just my thoughts.
-Mike

#20 2 years ago
Quoted from jimjim66:

To be honest, you are in the driver's seat. There are a lot of collectors with deep pockets. If you don't like the game and want to cash out, it's simple; take offers, then with the best offer add a bump and you'll get what you want.
There comes a place and time when the price will level, or only go up incrementally. Sell at the Apex. With the funds, you can get 2-3 super awesome collectibles for the price of 1.

He had his add running for the past 3 months and no takers at 20k. That makes the top pretty clear I think. Nobody is paying 20k and he was not willing to sell for less. Others have been happy to sell for 12, 13, and 14k.

We have the outside edges defined at this point. 15k offers will for sure find you a TBL. 20k asking does not sell.

#21 2 years ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

If BBB was going for $17k+ with nearly 200 made before remake chatter took off, why would TBL be any cheaper with only ~50 made

It plays MUCH worse than BBB and breaks all the time, and there are legit questions over whether or not the new owner can expect to keep their game running with any kind of regularity.

Lebowski is much closer to Magic Girl than BBB. More of a collector's item than a pinball item.

#22 2 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

It plays MUCH worse than BBB and breaks all the time, and there are legit questions over whether or not the new owner can expect to keep their game running with any kind of regularity.
Lebowski is much closer to Magic Girl than BBB. More of a collector's item than a pinball item.

You've probably actually played a Magic Girl, and almost certainly have more time on TBL than I do. But from what I've seen on YouTube and read here Magic Girl is a total dumpster fire, with shots that were poorly conceived and never tested, half-assed mechs, and obvious at a glance that it was thrown together in a desperate attempt to stop a lawsuit. TBL may be far from perfect but from the handful of games I've played (on Mr68's machine) I found it to be a fun and engaging pinball experience with great theme integration. Doesn't mean it's as fun to play as BBB, but in the high-end collector's market I'm not sure that fun to play is the dominant concern.

I know zip about the reliability and serviceability of TBL, and those could well be a check on potential buyers. But assuming it's 100% working, as Mr68's was when I played it and evidently still is today, the game is fun enough to shoot.

-1
#23 2 years ago

Damit ...i knew i sld of bought one for 10k when i had a chance....

32
#24 2 years ago

I forgot to mention it only has 600 plays in the last 12 years and it is Imamaculate.

#25 2 years ago

Yeah I would have to agree - apparently TBL plays very well and even though I have NO hand on experience, I did see a broken one and it looked good. That brings me to my main point - I would be concerned about replacement parts and although it's not as extreme as alien, I would still factor that in.

That's why I can't believe anyone passes on 20k offers for a pinball. Say it goes to 25k - you still cashed out at 20k! How much more do you need? Why would you chance this? I would walk now and have peace of mind b/c 20k is an amazing profit off of this game. I just hope it doesn't get you in the end b/c when you pass on 20k for 1 pinball table, things are starting to get cloudy in the mind. Just my two cents.

#26 2 years ago

GREED.... - Raul Julia

#27 2 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

I forgot to mention it only has 600 plays in the last 12 years and it is Imamaculate.

But ya gotta photograph it sitting on cardboard, that’s how the money is made. And maybe put a bulldog in the pic next to it. I’d sell it for what I could personally, say 15k, the thought of a 20k brick scares the hell outta me. But then again I’m not in the high finance world of pins...

#28 2 years ago
Quoted from delt31:

That's why I can't believe anyone passes on 20k offers for a pinball.

It's because those deals involved trades and I didnt want the long distance back and forth of inspection and shipping. Plus the titles offered I've already owned. A clean deal or even a local deal with interesting trades would have worked for me. Plus I'm not in a hurry so I hope that answers the missing pieces to your puzzle. But I get your point.

#29 2 years ago

Up to you... but realize its a ticking time bomb.
If this is it for Dutch, you could have a 20-30k game (working). If something breaks that cant be fixed your prolly lookin at a value of 10k.
Sounds like youve had your fun and ready to move on. If thats the case take the money Lebowski.
If i were you though, i would turn it off, put a cover on it, and wait a few years when you could get 30k plus for a fully functional tbl w only 600 plays.

#30 2 years ago

There are NES cartridges that can fetch $20k and up and they are terrible games. With TBL you get to have your cake and eat it to... until it breaks

#31 2 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

It's because those deals involved trades and I didnt want the long distance back and forth of inspection and shipping. Plus the titles offered I've already owned. A clean deal or even a local deal with interesting trades would have worked for me. Plus I'm not in a hurry so I hope that answers the missing pieces to your puzzle. But I get your point.

My advice.... Next time a 20k trade offer pops up. Take it. That game stops working and this topic becomes a moot point.

#32 2 years ago
Quoted from FlippyD:

until it breaks

You don't play it! This game is a commodity now. You don't play it. The people that will pay top dollar Don't play it! If you don't play it then it don't get broke...

#33 2 years ago

I played one at GSPF. Played it a lot. It had issues, sure, but nothing major. I had a blast playing it. Loved the game. If I had the disposable cash to get one at like 15K, I'd probably do it.

#34 2 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

I forgot to mention it only has 600 plays in the last 12 years and it is Imamaculate.

But, are legs included ??

#35 2 years ago
Quoted from whthrs166:

You don't play it! This game is a commodity now. You don't play it. The people that will pay top dollar Don't play it! If you don't play it then it don't get broke...

You're probably right but that's crazy. Buy a machine and then don't use it....

#36 2 years ago

I know of a couple that went for 20...

#37 2 years ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

Fees are currently at 10.15%, with a cap of $750.
I'd be wary of putting anything high value through ebay because of potential paypal/ebay disputes. Ebay & paypal usually side with buyers, rather than sellers.

Agreed stay away from EBay. It is not buyer beware but has changed to seller beware!

#38 2 years ago
Quoted from delt31:

You're probably right but that's crazy. Buy a machine and then don't use it....

I hear ya and I agree but when they get like this they enter a new market and it's just all about "Hey Look What I Got" .

#39 2 years ago

eBay could drum up more potential buyers but i would stick to local cash sale only. Putting '600 hundred plays in 12 years and is imamaculate' in the description...priceless.

#41 2 years ago

I don't hold any ill will toward anybody who wants to spend $20K for something like Lebowski or Magic girl. Knock yourselves out.

#42 2 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

I don't hold any ill will toward anybody who wants to spend $20K for something like Lebowski or Magic girl. Knock yourselves out.

Why would you when its not your money Levi?

#43 2 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

I don't hold any ill will toward anybody who wants to spend $20K for something like Lebowski or Magic girl. Knock yourselves out.

Thanks kinda an odd comment...

#44 2 years ago

Ebay fees are crazy, now they want a share of shipping. I'm raising my product prices to cover this. Buy & sell privately!

#45 2 years ago

I think for TBL it’s a “trophy game” market as opposed to a market for someone looking for a fun player. Realistically you can probably get 2-3 pretty fun games for what this game will cost. Those kind of markets typically increase as time goes along unless the whole market sinks, in which case they can be disproportionately affected as people dump games/collections to salvage something. One additional thing, I think the unknown affecting pricing here is what will happen to the ARA games being held and how they will be sold once things are finalized by the court. Will they all be dumped at once and at what pricing? That could affect/depress the market until those games are out and the market stabilizes afterwards. Long term though, my guess is that it goes up from here....

Disclaimer: I have no stake in the game here, not looking to buy or sell, past returns are no guarantee of future profits etc etc lol.....

#46 2 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

It plays MUCH worse than BBB and breaks all the time, and there are legit questions over whether or not the new owner can expect to keep their game running with any kind of regularity.
Lebowski is much closer to Magic Girl than BBB. More of a collector's item than a pinball item.

Yep. It plays like crap and the code is complete crap. It appears Dutch basically gave up on code years ago when they realized their prospects of remaining a going concern were next to nil.

Does anyone know how many actual games there are in owners' hands plus the games held hostage? I'm guessing its significantly less than what has been stated by Dutch. Wouldn't surprise me if there are less than 40 total. It makes total sense that Dutch would inflate the numbers to look less incompetent.

#47 2 years ago

My TBL is not for sale. I've had BBB. In terms of gameplay, I'd say comparable quality. Build, though? TBL by a decent margin. Brick shithouse, that game. Trophy pin, to be sure. But what a fkn fun trophy!

#48 2 years ago
Quoted from turbo20lbs:

GREED.... - Raul Julia

Greed is good...Gordon Gecko.

#49 2 years ago

As a TBL "Early Achiever" that ended up only a few spots short of receiving my game before Dutch Pinball stopped shipping them, I can't help but feeling doubly screwed seeing these games go for so much. Not to mention that a formerly favorite movie and White Russians no longer are enjoyable as they remind me of this long, painful, and unfortunately, ongoing debacle.

Just sayin'. Sometimes life can be a big shit sandwich eh?

Ah well - I'm not bitter though.

Good luck with your sale Kim.

#50 2 years ago
Quoted from pinlawyer:

My TBL is not for sale. I've had BBB. In terms of gameplay, I'd say comparable quality. Build, though? TBL by a decent margin. Brick shithouse, that game. Trophy pin, to be sure. But what a fkn fun trophy!

So do you actually play TBL or do you just keep it to have it and not play it? Just curious.... Never knew such an audience exists and it fascinates me

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