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(Topic ID: 92478)

Price Check & Opinions please- Black Rose BR & Bride BoP


By blondetall

6 years ago



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  • 49 posts
  • 24 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by abcdelmrs
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#1 6 years ago

I've never seen or played either BOP or BR in person, but have played both on the virtual Pinball Arcade tables. I've got possible leads on one of each, and am just trying to determine what a decent price would be for a player's condition pin. Also, any opinions on these would be appreciated. I haven't sold any pins yet and this would be my "bonus" pin where I'd plan to keep it for awhile and then possibly swap out for something else (since the rest of the pins have no plans to leave.) I want something that's going to be fun to play and yet still hold its value as far as being trade bait or desirable for a buyer in the future. I'm not talking about considering it an investment or anything, but mostly concerned because there aren't that many pinball people near me, so finding a buyer isn't going to be as easy in the heavily populated pinball people areas that I'm jealous some of you live in. Thanks in advance!

#2 6 years ago

expect to pay around 2k for BOP if in decent condition. lots of people say its a 1 shot game but, its just so much fun !
have one in my collection and will never part with it !

#3 6 years ago

I used to own a BOP.

Musically and visual, it's a work of art. Generally cabs are a bit beat and the pfs are always worn. Hard game to get far into, which I loved. It was indeed left ramp heavy.. and I got a bit tired of the short pf. I bought mine for $1500 I believe and sold it for $1600. That head made me nervous too.. as in if it broke, I'd be screwed.

BR i've never played but would love to.

#4 6 years ago

Both those titles are love it or hate it
Example
I love bop
I loath br

#5 6 years ago
Quoted from Pdxmonkey:

Both those titles are love it or hate it
Example
I love bop
I loath br

Could you elaborate a bit? It might be helpful if you could give her some details about why you feel the way you do about the two games.

The particular Black Rose in question is not my game, but I will be trying to sell it for a friend. He's supposed to bring it to my house tomorrow so I'll be able to give pics and details about the game after it arrives. It's been several years since I last saw the game, but I do remember that it does have cabinet fade. I don't remember how much. I also remember there being a good bit of wear in front of the cannon.

#6 6 years ago

Sure

BOP
Killer lights and sounds accompanied with a beautiful artwork are pluses.
I do love the humor in BOP too.
Playfield is tight and ball times are shorter until you really master the geometry which is nice if you're looking for a non marathon game. The other side of that is the software is pretty simple and the game is really all about the two ramp combo to get multiball and ultimately Billionaire club lit. Hopefully DP has solved this but even as it stands I like it quite a bit.

BlackRose
The wire form in the middle of the play field bothers me. This is probably the main reason I don't like this game.
Art is pretty good.

#7 6 years ago

BOP is a fun game. I've owned 3 in the past. I'd say values on it would be 1400 - 1600 for players quality and around 1800 - 2000 for a nice example (which can be a bit hard to find...playfields usually have wear.

Black Rose I don't have a lot of experience with. Only played it a couple of times and it wasn't for me, but some people like it. Pricing on it very similar to BOP mentioned above.

Good luck!

#8 6 years ago

Thanks. Good details on BoP.

I think both are good games and enjoy playing each one when I come across them.

#9 6 years ago

I currently own BOP. Here is my take on it. A popular pin. Often called a one shot wonder because the only way to accumulate big points is by hitting the left ramp over & over.
Excellent music, callouts and excellent light show. Occasionally, you'll get a long ball, but most of the time there are short ball times. I would say if you can get a fully working players condition unit for $1600 - $1800, you'll do ok. Many of these have been played hard & long. Be sure the head is functioning properly. Other issues are playfield wear, insert wear, worn out ramps.
Lets put it this way. I'd buy another BOP just to have for "trade bait" if another one popped up at a decent price.

#10 6 years ago

Locally in my area there's a BOP for $2500 and a very nice BR for $3,000. But prices often seem higher in and around Colorado then some other states where I see ads for the same pins.

To me BR is the better pin with way more variety in shots and some easy and harder video modes. Also like the theme better. I've never beaten BOP, but wonder if it's gets boring if you're good enough to beat it often.

#11 6 years ago

Bump for the Friday crowd.

#12 6 years ago
Quoted from Pdxmonkey:

BlackRose
The wire form in the middle of the play field bothers me. This is probably the main reason I don't like this game.
Art is pretty good.

Ya know, I wanted a Black Rose pretty bad a few months back and was so worried about the wire form down the middle. Since day 1 when I got it back in Feb, hasn't bothered me in the slightest, not once, nor has anyone else that's played it had a problem. Most people don't even mention it. DO NOT let this sway your decision on BR. It is a great game and just so unique. Love BOP too, but would take BR over it in a heartbeat.. just my .02

#13 6 years ago

I own a really nice example of BOP. It is a fun to play and look at. The multiball is a rush and joining the billionaires club is cool. The light show during metamorphosis makes it worth having for a while on its own.

I have only played BR at shows. It didnt do anything that would make me want to own one.

#14 6 years ago

Wow. It definitely sounds like they're both love 'em or hate 'em games. I guess it's going to come down to if the BoP owner messages me back, what the situation is with the BR, and whether or not something else comes along before/at the Atlanta expo. I think I'd be happy playing either of them though. Both are fun on the virtual games, but I know those play differently than real life just from the differences in the virtual and my real NGG. I am a sucker for a good light show though, and BoP's looks awesome on the game. I've tricked out the LEDs so much on my real NGG that playing the virtual one looks stupidly bland, so I know I could do awesome things with the BoP.

Thanks for the opinions and help, and keep them coming.

#15 6 years ago
Quoted from Bohdi:

It is a great game and just so unique. Love BOP too, but would take BR over it in a heartbeat.. just my .02

What makes it unique? I like unique pins.

#16 6 years ago

Both are fun for a few plays, but not worth buying when you already have so many better games.

#17 6 years ago

Had BOP and sold it for a WCS. Not regretted it.
Black Rose is pretty fun. Wouldn't mind owning one for the right price.

#18 6 years ago

I'm mostly looking because I need a project. All my current pins are fixed, modded, shopped, have LEDs, etc. I like playing them, but I also really like tinkering with them. I've got room for 2 more max, Predator is taking one slot as of now, and that gives me room for one more game that I can work on, play, and eventually sell/swap. The rest are basically anchored to the floor, so it would be nice to have one rotation spot where I don't expect to keep it. Since I'm in a pinball desert but going to the Atlanta expo where there will be games available for purchase, it's more of an opportunity thing that a 'seriously need another pin' thing. So it doesn't have to be a forever keeper pin, just fun and something to work on. And cheap would be good too.

#19 6 years ago
Quoted from Blackbeard:

What makes it unique? I like unique pins.

The cannon, the wire form down the middle.. Just a bit different from anything else I guess. Plus I just love the Pirate theme.

#20 6 years ago

Both are great games! Sold my BR recently for $2,500 but mine was very nice with no cannon wear or cabinet fade. I still own a BOP and probably will be keeping it for a while. BOPs go from $1,200 - $2,200 based on condition.

#21 6 years ago
Quoted from Blackbeard:

What makes it unique? I like unique pins.

I know it has 3 video modes, ramps go behind the playfield, the canon pops up from beneath the playfield, the left ramp raises (like on NGG) to make a hole, and it has the center habitrail where the other ship fires back at you. It is a Trudeau/Eddy design, so not the all-too-common fan layout.

My husband (after playing it on the virtual table) refers to it as the Hipster Pirate game. "It was pirate-themed before pirates were cool."

#22 6 years ago
Quoted from Choggard:

BOPs go from $1,200 - $2,200 based on whether I'm buying or selling.

#23 6 years ago

I'll cut you a deal on mine later if you want.

#24 6 years ago
Quoted from blondetall:

I know it has 3 video modes, ramps go behind the playfield, the canon pops up from beneath the playfield, the left ramp raises (like on NGG) to make a hole, and it has the center habitrail where the other ship fires back at you. It is a Trudeau/Eddy design, so not the all-too-common fan layout.
My husband (after playing it on the virtual table) refers to it as the Hipster Pirate game. "It was pirate-themed before pirates were cool."

It does play better on TPA than the real table. It's smoother. I also think BR has a pretty decent lightshow in it's own right. Mine is fully LED'd with some colored flashers here and there also, and it looks fabulous in a darker room.

#25 6 years ago

BOP is definitely going to be in my collection soon enough.

#26 6 years ago

I play in the pitch dark, and my NGG has 8-LED flashers in all 11+ flashers over/under the playfield. My husband has disabling migraines as it is, so I have to close off the room when I play it, because the lightshow for multiball makes it look like an alien invasion at a discotech.

Everything is smoother on TPA. Fun enough when you don't have the real thing, but I'll play it and go "Yeah right, that never happens in real life" way too many times.

#27 6 years ago

I never dumped much time into BOP, but I really enjoyed BR from the times I've played. I thought it was an excellent pin for the price. I would snatch one up if I stumbled across a well-priced and local example.

I have heard that the cannon on BR can be an absolute nightmare to balance, but I'll let owners/past owners speak more to that.

#28 6 years ago
Quoted from BeaglePuss:

I have heard that the cannon on BR can be an absolute nightmare to balance, but I'll let owners/past owners speak more to that.

My cannon was pretty level when I got it. But I did tweak it a bit. Very easy with the adjusting screws. Also recommend anyone that doesn't have it already to get the Cliffy for the cannon.

#29 6 years ago

never really had any trouble with leveling the cannon, and mine was completely disassembled when i bought the game.

To me both these games are kinda opposite ends of the spectrum Bop is like a test of endurance how many times can you make billionaires club in a game, and BR is more like just shooting around having fun. i'd rank these games equally in the short term ownership (like a year or less) but in long term I'd go with Bop. Ive had both several years although truth be told i wouldnt sell either.

#30 6 years ago

28 pics available of the Black Rose are available at

https://www.flickr.com/photos/94810492@N06/sets/72157644918327071/

Here are 10 of them

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#31 6 years ago

Thank you so much for posting those! Wow, red REALLY fades fast on cabinets. On the large man/woman, specifically above the N and H in SINK SHIP, are those scratches or is it planking? I am trying to zoom in but can't tell.

#32 6 years ago

These are what the game should look like[attachment=1684201,undefined]

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#33 6 years ago

Ooh, shiney. Very pretty.

#34 6 years ago

I bought a nice BR recently for $2100. I've put about $100-$150 in it in miscellaneous parts. Fade on one side. Small chip on the cannon.

Fun game. I love the wire form in the middle that imitates a cannon shot back towards the player. The cannon is difficult to level, though.

#35 6 years ago
Quoted from blondetall:

Thank you so much for posting those! Wow, red REALLY fades fast on cabinets. On the large man/woman, specifically above the N and H in SINK SHIP, are those scratches or is it planking? I am trying to zoom in but can't tell.

The game doesn't have what I call planking. I think of that as lots and lots of tiny vertical lines across large areas. What you are seeing appears to me to be wear at the inserts for the swords. As far as I can tell, the insert is rectangular under there and the edges have been worn down.

#36 6 years ago

Yeah, I agree with you on the definition of planking as lots of vertical lines. I am not familiar enough with the table to know there are sword inserts there and thought I was looking at stand-alone grooves, and wasn't sure if it was deep scratches or if there was more planking I just couldn't see. Inserts there and wear on them makes sense now that I know what I am looking at.

#37 6 years ago
Quoted from blondetall:

I'm mostly looking because I need a project. All my current pins are fixed, modded, shopped, have LEDs, etc. I like playing them, but I also really like tinkering with them. I've got room for 2 more max, Predator is taking one slot as of now, and that gives me room for one more game that I can work on, play, and eventually sell/swap. The rest are basically anchored to the floor, so it would be nice to have one rotation spot where I don't expect to keep it. Since I'm in a pinball desert but going to the Atlanta expo where there will be games available for purchase, it's more of an opportunity thing that a 'seriously need another pin' thing. So it doesn't have to be a forever keeper pin, just fun and something to work on. And cheap would be good too.

If your looking for a project look no further then BOP, you can get new decals, a new pf is being talked about, BOP 2.0 will be out (not sure when), PBR just did a run of the plastics and I think you can still find a new helmet and ramps. Now is a good time to start a BOP resto, several on PS are doing it so you would have a lot of help. I love my girl, all new helmet and ramps but now I wish the rest of her looked that good.

#38 6 years ago

I saw there was quite a bit going on with BoP as far as new plastics and available parts. Sadly it is 2.5 hours north (whereas everything else I am looking at is going to be at the expo in Atlanta) and the seller hasn't replied to my last PM a few days ago, so it may already be gone.

#39 6 years ago

I had a BR, sold it and bought it back 2 years later.

#40 6 years ago
Quoted from blondetall:

I saw there was quite a bit going on with BoP as far as new plastics and available parts. Sadly it is 2.5 hours north (whereas everything else I am looking at is going to be at the expo in Atlanta) and the seller hasn't replied to my last PM a few days ago, so it may already be gone.

Bummer.

#41 6 years ago

Black Rose is a very good looking attractive game. It plays AWFUL though. Ive played 3 different ones. Never seen a ball go down the drain lanes as much. My record is 4 balls in a row go down the right drain without ever using a flipper. I should have taken the hint when I went to look at it in a guys house. I shot 3 balls all 3 went down the right drain. I took the glass off to make sure everything worked.

#42 6 years ago

It can be a hard game for sure, but I wouldn't say it plays awful by any means. Here's a 3+ minute game I played this morning and right now I'm uploading a 7+ minute game I played while the first one was uploading.

#43 6 years ago

BR is a great game.....If the time is taken to dial it in properly

#44 6 years ago

Here's the 7+ minute game

#45 6 years ago

I had to read this thread because I knew opinions would vary & it makes for interesting conversation. It comes down to what you like in a game. Luckily we do have a game like Pinball Arcade where you can get a feel for what both these games are all about.
I've always preferred games with a variety of shots & maybe you don't need strategy as much when playing, just fire it up & play. BR is great for that. Actually, I like having differing styles in my 3 or 4 game line-up. Like right now I have a deep game with lots to shoot at (WPT), a flow game (JM), & then BR.

Honestly I've wanted a BR for years & finally got one & love it. It just speaks to me! But I will say that it is important to be anal about the setup & maintenance of the game. Get the pitch & level just right. Level the canon which actually isn't too hard. A well taken care of BR is just a blast, IMO. Cool art, great light show, fun theme, awesome canon toy, unique layout.
BOP just doesn't speak to me. In fact, I'm not a huge fan of any of the *bot* games. They are just OK to me. Btw I found my BR in excellent condition for $2100 & it had a full cointaker LED kit & pinball pro subwoofer. I thought this was a pretty solid deal for what I consider a great b/w DMD title. BOP doesn't have a DMD.

#46 6 years ago

Thanks so much for the videos. I have been LEDing my Revenge all day and not hanging out here, so just found them. From what little I know of the machine (since I have only played virtual) it looks like this one plays pretty well. I haven't seen one of those video modes before. I have Stargate and honestly suck at trying to make the pyramid shot, so I wonder how much different it is to hit the ship on BR since it is a very similar location.

#47 6 years ago

Blondetall, on Stargate do the 5 shot combo with the last being the Pyramid shot. Not easy.
Enjoy the hunt and hope to meet you at the Expo.

#48 6 years ago

The BR has a lot of issues, playfield is really rough at the front of the cannon, inserts worn down, full fade on cab, sink ship wear, can't see the art through the cannon below. If it works 100%, DMD isn't partially out. 1500-1700 would be my best guess. Its really a players condition on a game that's more geared towards family fun. Needs love.

#49 6 years ago
Quoted from nikpinball:

The BR has a lot of issues, playfield is really rough at the front of the cannon, inserts worn down, full fade on cab, sink ship wear, can't see the art through the cannon below. If it works 100%, DMD isn't partially out. 1500-1700 would be my best guess. Its really a players condition on a game that's more geared towards family fun. Needs love.

I'm not sure what you mean by "can't see the art through the cannon below" or "If it works 100%, DMD isn't partially out". Please explain what you mean and I'll see what I can do.

The rest of your comments are spot on.

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