(Topic ID: 115307)

Price check for minty EM's

By NicoVolta

9 years ago


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  • 99 posts
  • 34 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 years ago by bsnelson
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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    #1 9 years ago

    We Pinsiders commonly expect the average EM to be priced in the mid-$$$ triple digit range... with all of the "average" problems: Average flaky backglass, average cupped inserts, average playfield wear, average chipped/scratched/faded cabinet, average condition of playfield parts, average mechanical issues, yada yada. But a full restoration is a different story.

    Let's start with an average $500 EM and add $350 shipping. Then, let's do the following...

    NOS/repro backglass: $250
    full playfield resto and clear coat: $750
    new playfield parts/rubbers: $100
    plastic set: $150
    refurbish mechs/new lamp sockets/sleeves/etc: $100
    cabinet work (not always req'd): $200
    repaint: do it myself $75 in materials max
    legs: $50
    misc: $25

    Which is in the neighborhood of $2500 and many hours work. My my, that added up fast, didn't it?

    It would be possible to dramatically cut costs by doing my own PF restos/clear coat, backglasses, and buying local instead of paying for shipping. But until then... I don't see any shortcuts. It costs what it costs, eh?

    Does it really seem all that crazy to pay at least $2k for a pristine restored EM? Seems pretty much right on the money to me... and that's for any ol' game. The Slick Chicks and King of Diamonds of the scene would undoubtedly fetch more.

    #12 9 years ago
    Quoted from g43crazy:

    The aspect of it being a collector`s item is a little lost to me on a total full blown resto ........but I see both sides.

    Me too. Countless hours spent watching Pawn Stars taught me how "original patina" can be worth far more than shiny and new. Particularly with guns. Shined up, they lose almost all value.

    Pins aren't quite the same though, because there's just something special about flipping a huge glorious sparkling shiny machine standing in front of you. Cupped inserts bother the hell out of me. As do flaky backglasses, dim lamp sockets, damaged PF's, and weak/underpowered mechs.

    Once you begin to revive an old machine, where do you stop? If the plastics and bumper caps and other decorative elements get replaced, it makes the surrounding stuff look worn. So I do those. Then the trim. Then the cab. And then... well... might as well go all the way. Can't leave it half-done!

    And thus, how I got sucked into the gravitational pull of the Minty Pinball Singularity...

    #13 9 years ago
    Quoted from EM-PINMAN:

    My problem is not with truly restored pins commanding the high prices they deserve, just so called restorers charging high prices for crap work on what they say was restored machines that should be priced 1/3 of what they want. Just my 2 cents from a couple of personal experiences.
    Ken

    Right on. Fully restored is a labor of love, done right. Start to finish. Nothing less!

    #19 9 years ago
    Quoted from Frax:

    Oh, he has tried one...his Doozie was pretty awesome.

    Actually I didn't have that one cleared. Just a good cleaning, wax, and new inserts w/decals coated with clear. Agreed it plays nice and snappy after going through all the mechs.

    #21 9 years ago
    Quoted from Frax:

    That's it man, I'm putting in phillips screws in all my Gottliebs!

    LOL I have thought of doing the same many times.

    #25 9 years ago
    Quoted from DB62:

    NOT crazy to me at all, infact, I would add on at least $500 more for some titles, that are truly minty. You forgot to also add in new coin door, new coin entry plate, new plunger and other chrome stuff and a cabinet repaint done the CORRECT way.
    I used to think that way myself about NOT clearcoating a EM playfield ... but once I got my 1st playfield repainted and then clearcoated, it was BEAUTIFUL!!! No wear anywhere and no more worries with it ... EVER ... Plus, it plays a lot better. NO more balls changing direction because of cupped inserts and other playfield problems.
    I will post before and after pictures of my COW POKE and other EM's someday. Again, everybody has there own opinions and preferences, but don't knock a clearcoated EM playfield until you tried one ... of course that pin still has to be set up and working 100% correctly with rebuilt flippers, rebuilt pop bumpers and everything adjusted correctly, because if it is NOT, that is usually why people don't like EM's or won't ever give them a chance play wise, because they play so slow and sluggish. If they are tuned just right, there is NOTHING better than a classic EM.
    Dan

    Funny coincidence there... the first minty clearcoated EM I had ever seen was a Cow Poke at the 2013 Houston Arcade Expo. Won best in show, played beautifully, and every inch looked absolutely incredible.

    I think that's what set things in motion. Agreed that classic EM's have the magic.

    #30 9 years ago
    Quoted from DB62:

    So I guess I should have left my pitch & bat in its ORIGINAL condition, instead of RESTORING it??? I know its not a EM pinball, but I have these pics handy on my computer, so that's why I used them ... but same principle here.

    Wow very nice pics! Truly gorgeous work. But I think the numbers also support what Dave is saying... you can pick up a dozen working player machines which work reasonably well with a little tinkering for the cost of maybe two or three fully restored beauties.

    Same as it ever was: Quality vs. quantity. Both have their joys. But if you can afford to have quality AND quantity... everyone will secretly hate you. hahaha

    #31 9 years ago
    Quoted from DB62:

    Oooops, I used the unfinished bleacher picture ... here is the completely finshed pic.

    P1080032.JPG 247 KB

    Gee... I wonder how often that "super homer" target gets hit? Must be pretty satisfying when it does!

    #71 9 years ago
    Quoted from Quiddity:

    I don't know if you had it cleared or not, but Flipper Fair is still my favorite of your restorations.

    Not yet... but it will be getting the HSA treatment after Crossroads. I also swapped some filament bulbs back under the clear inserts. Not as bright, but more magical. Magic is good.

    #72 9 years ago
    Quoted from Rat_Tomago:

    Ask Pinhead52...I saw his insert leveling on a Atlantis and I was "wowed" by it.

    From what I know of it, the technique involves leveling the playfield perfectly flat on a rotisserie and squirting an eyedropper of auto clear onto the insert. One tiny drop at a time. Just enough to precisely fill to the edge. Then let dry and sand to flat (gently).

    #73 9 years ago
    Quoted from Xerico:

    As a former owner of a supremely restored Bally Fireball, I have to agree with the sentiment that having a minty EM is so choice. If you have the means, I highly recommend playing one some day.
    With that said, I am not a purist. I prefer games that play properly "for me". I like strong flippers that can make any shot. I like pop bumpers that snap a ball all over the place. I prefer buttery smooth drop targets. And I prefer inserts that do not act as a rest stop for the pinball.
    I enjoy EMs that give me lots of sound. I like the bells to ring and the chimes to sing.
    While Rat definitely defends the 3.5-3.9 degree rule, I personally enjoy the optimal pitch as defined "by me" for each game. Some games are optimal at 3.5 degrees. Others at 5 degrees. I do not care how an op in 1960 set his game. I was not alive and I did not play them then.
    I'm playing them in 2015. And every game I own has a pitch that is different.
    Just my 0.02.
    Marcus

    100% agreed... particularly the part about variable pitch. In the beginning I'd spend at least an hour obsessively futzing with leg levelers to get a pin-point-perfect-precise 3.5 degree slope on all my games. They all played OK, but some weren't as fun to flip as others.

    Once I stopped being a statistician and experimented with "what felt best" for each game... alakazam! Way more fun. Each game has a sweet spot. Tis worth finding it!

    #74 9 years ago
    Quoted from DRDAVE:

    Nope not crazy at all. In fact I think $2k is too cheap for all the work that goes into to these to make them look and play like new again. I get well north of $2k for my Restored EM games. Often close to twice that figure. I like to get paid for my time, parts and expertise.
    Dave (Doc)

    Oh definitely too cheap to sell. That minimum $2k figure is FOR ME. Haha... as a business that had better be 50%-100% more considering the enormous amount of time and effort involved!

    High-end restoration is true craftsmanship. It is something to be proud of. You can't buy machines like this anymore nor import them overnight from China. It takes time and effort and patience and dedication and attention and experience and a love of the game and isn't free. And, like any "well made thing", it elicits joy and wonder in all who partake of it.

    I think that's the Main Thing for me... the social aspect/sharing experience. Expending the effort to go all-out for that last ounce of "wow" is what it is all about. It is about creating and sharing magic.

    #81 9 years ago
    Quoted from ccotenj:

    but i think that if a pf has been repainted/touched up/repaired, it should at least be varathane'd... again, not my specialty, i am NOT a painter/artist...

    Yeah that's the catch. You can't touch up a playfield without putting some kind of protection over it. Even the quick and dirty "paint and wipe off" trick to fill white dot wear will come off pretty quickly. Sometimes you can spot clear a solitary problem area, but even then the shine wouldn't match the rest (and might look worse under reflected light).

    Not much middle ground with playfields. If you can't live with it as-is, I don't know of any other options with comparable quality to original than going full resto...

    #84 9 years ago

    Whoa. You just don't find 'em like that anymore. Great video! Can we do all pin videos like that w/appropriate music and editing? Thumbs up!

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