(Topic ID: 115307)

Price check for minty EM's


By NicoVolta

4 years ago



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  • 99 posts
  • 34 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by bsnelson
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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    There are 99 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
    #51 4 years ago

    DB62,
    What a great pitch and bat restore! You have skills sir, it looks fabulous.

    Of course you should have restored it with your skills and you should get a fair recompense for the cost of doing it if you ever sell it, I hope. I am enjoying this thread as the people here contributing know what they like about the hobby and respect what others think.

    I personally like the restoring part of the hobby and don't want a ceiling put on the value of out of the ordinary restore project just because it is a EM. My point is I may be in the minority but would pay more for a restored game that I really wanted.

    ( I hope that I did not make that too obvious I would love to own that pitch and bat someday).

    Steve J.

    #52 4 years ago

    I always enjoy it when someone decides they know how EMs were meant to be played.

    #53 4 years ago

    Post edited by SteveinTexas: double post

    #54 4 years ago
    Quoted from EMsInKC:

    I always enjoy it when someone decides they know how EMs were meant to be played.

    EMs were designed with original coil strengths and a suggestion of a 3.5% pitch. They were lightly coated at the factory. With fresh balls, 3 coats of wax, original strength of coils, fresh rubbers, low tap...your game should last another 37-60+ years and play the way your Dad or Grandfather played them back in the day. If you wish to change that then that is your prerogative. It is your money and your machine. If you want to paint the thing with pink flamingos and add a disco light show then it is your machine to do so.

    #55 4 years ago
    Quoted from Rat_Tomago:

    If you want to paint the thing with pink flamingos and add a disco light show then it is your machine to do so.

    Actually I was thinking of coming over your house this weekend and doing just that to Slick Chick.

    Make it look real purty...........

    #56 4 years ago
    Quoted from Rat_Tomago:

    EMs were designed with original coil strengths and a suggestion of a 3.5% pitch. They were lightly coated at the factory. With fresh balls, 3 coats of wax, original strength of coils, fresh rubbers, low tap...your game should last another 37-60+ years and play the way your Dad or Grandfather played them back in the day. If you wish to change that then that is your prerogative. It is your money and your machine. If you want to paint the thing with pink flamingos and add a disco light show then it is your machine to do so.

    My father or grandfather? Hell, I was playing them back in the day.

    Of course, as they were played on location back in the day, they very seldom got fresh balls, or rubbers, or the correct pitch, or three coats of wax, which is really just waxing wax anyway.

    Operators left them out there as long as they were making money. They weren't inclined to do the stuff people do today to keep the games in operation, because they were on location for a few years then pulled and replaced by other games. Any money spent on that type of upkeep was money out of their pockets. They cleaned the glass and replaced burned out bulbs and rubbers if they broke. Other than that, they just left them to be played.

    The games were never designed to be in operation more than a few years anyway.

    #57 4 years ago
    Quoted from Rat_Tomago:

    your game should last another 37-60+ years and play the way your Dad or Grandfather played them back in the day.

    He does have a point there, now doesn't he Ollie.
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    #58 4 years ago

    EMsInKC...You have your opinion and I have mine and we can just split the difference and shake hands.

    #59 4 years ago

    When I was young most EM games were taken off route before they showed any significant wear to make room for the new games. Probably because they had stopped making money. Wherever they were kept between then and now, that is how I hope to find them now.

    #60 4 years ago

    As a former owner of a supremely restored Bally Fireball, I have to agree with the sentiment that having a minty EM is so choice. If you have the means, I highly recommend playing one some day.

    With that said, I am not a purist. I prefer games that play properly "for me". I like strong flippers that can make any shot. I like pop bumpers that snap a ball all over the place. I prefer buttery smooth drop targets. And I prefer inserts that do not act as a rest stop for the pinball.

    I enjoy EMs that give me lots of sound. I like the bells to ring and the chimes to sing.

    While Rat definitely defends the 3.5-3.9 degree rule, I personally enjoy the optimal pitch as defined "by me" for each game. Some games are optimal at 3.5 degrees. Others at 5 degrees. I do not care how an op in 1960 set his game. I was not alive and I did not play them then.

    I'm playing them in 2015. And every game I own has a pitch that is different.

    Just my 0.02.

    Marcus

    #61 4 years ago
    Quoted from Rat_Tomago:

    EMsInKC...You have your opinion and I have mine and we can just split the difference and shake hands.

    Well, I think the difference is, you weren't even old enough to play EMs on location when they started being replaced by SS games. I grew up on playing them on location. Your association with EMs comes well after their era had ended, as far as location playing goes.

    There was no intention by the manufacturers on how they would be played, other than they would be played in a manner that brought return to the operators. So they were set up to make money for the operators and the players were only in the equation insofar as, how many quarters will they drop in the game?

    Sure, they set parameters on high scores and things like that, but the operators did whatever they wanted to do to make money, regardless of the suggestions that the manufacturers might make.

    Because of that saying that they were meant to be played a certain way isn't really right, because they were played all sorts of ways.

    #62 4 years ago
    Quoted from Xerico:

    As a former owner of a supremely restored Bally Fireball, I have to agree with the sentiment that having a minty EM is so choice.

    As a current owner of a choice, well maintained, un-restored Fireball, I would have to agree.

    #63 4 years ago

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    #64 4 years ago

    I take it Rat enjoyed that breakfast we had.

    #65 4 years ago

    Nope not crazy at all. In fact I think $2k is too cheap for all the work that goes into to these to make them look and play like new again. I get well north of $2k for my Restored EM games. Often close to twice that figure. I like to get paid for my time, parts and expertise.

    Dave (Doc)

    Quoted from NicoVolta:

    We Pinsiders commonly expect the average EM to be priced in the mid-$$$ triple digit range... with all of the "average" problems: Average flaky backglass, average cupped inserts, average playfield wear, average chipped/scratched/faded cabinet, average condition of playfield parts, average mechanical issues, yada yada. But a full restoration is a different story.
    Let's start with an average $500 EM and add $350 shipping. Then, let's do the following...
    NOS/repro backglass: $250
    full playfield resto and clear coat: $750
    new playfield parts/rubbers: $100
    plastic set: $150
    refurbish mechs/new lamp sockets/sleeves/etc: $100

    cabinet work (not always req'd): $200
    repaint: do it myself $75 in materials max
    legs: $50
    misc: $25
    Which is in the neighborhood of $2500 and many hours work. My my, that added up fast, didn't it?
    It would be possible to dramatically cut costs by doing my own PF restos/clear coat, backglasses, and buying local instead of paying for shipping. But until then... I don't see any shortcuts. It costs what it costs, eh?
    Does it really seem all that crazy to pay at least $2k for a pristine restored EM? Seems pretty much right on the money to me... and that's for any ol' game. The Slick Chicks and King of Diamonds of the scene would undoubtedly fetch more.

    #66 4 years ago

    We would all like to get paid for our time. But the truth is restoring a basket case is a labor of love and will never be able to equal a well maintained original.

    #67 4 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    We all would like to get paid for our time. But the truth is restoring a basket case is a labor of love and will never be able to equal a well maintained original.

    I agree with you about not getting back all your money for the time you have into them ... BUT ... my opinion is that a completely restored and well maintained EM is at least equal too, if not more valuable than a original EM ... and I do have both types of these EM's ... Just my 2 cents

    #68 4 years ago

    been lurking this a bit (because I love this discussion), but I think Dirt said it best - that it comes down to a judgement call, on a game-by-game basis.

    #69 4 years ago
    Quoted from Robotoes:

    been lurking this a bit (because I love this discussion), but I think Dirt said it best - that it comes down to a judgement call, on a game-by-game basis.

    I agree if it is a really, really nice original to leave it alone ... BUT ... I am a (AAB) guy being from Wisconsin and those titles are very hard to find at all and when I find that pin I have been looking forever for, it is usually beat up pretty good. The cabinet is real rough, the playfield has lots of wear and so on, so that's why I get mine restored all the way around. Plus, the restored ones look so puurrttyyy, that when one of those sits next to a original EM in average shape, it just begs me out loud. I need a paint job and a playfield restore and lots more!

    Post edited by DB62: wrong wording

    #70 4 years ago

    I'm an equal opportunity pinballist. I have had beaters barely alive that I brought back to life and I have bought repainted restored machines. They all deserve to be saved. One thing they all have in common is that they all get played. But those that are well preserved originals are the cream of the crop.

    #71 4 years ago
    Quoted from Quiddity:

    I don't know if you had it cleared or not, but Flipper Fair is still my favorite of your restorations.

    Not yet... but it will be getting the HSA treatment after Crossroads. I also swapped some filament bulbs back under the clear inserts. Not as bright, but more magical. Magic is good.

    #72 4 years ago
    Quoted from Rat_Tomago:

    Ask Pinhead52...I saw his insert leveling on a Atlantis and I was "wowed" by it.

    From what I know of it, the technique involves leveling the playfield perfectly flat on a rotisserie and squirting an eyedropper of auto clear onto the insert. One tiny drop at a time. Just enough to precisely fill to the edge. Then let dry and sand to flat (gently).

    #73 4 years ago
    Quoted from Xerico:

    As a former owner of a supremely restored Bally Fireball, I have to agree with the sentiment that having a minty EM is so choice. If you have the means, I highly recommend playing one some day.
    With that said, I am not a purist. I prefer games that play properly "for me". I like strong flippers that can make any shot. I like pop bumpers that snap a ball all over the place. I prefer buttery smooth drop targets. And I prefer inserts that do not act as a rest stop for the pinball.
    I enjoy EMs that give me lots of sound. I like the bells to ring and the chimes to sing.
    While Rat definitely defends the 3.5-3.9 degree rule, I personally enjoy the optimal pitch as defined "by me" for each game. Some games are optimal at 3.5 degrees. Others at 5 degrees. I do not care how an op in 1960 set his game. I was not alive and I did not play them then.
    I'm playing them in 2015. And every game I own has a pitch that is different.
    Just my 0.02.
    Marcus

    100% agreed... particularly the part about variable pitch. In the beginning I'd spend at least an hour obsessively futzing with leg levelers to get a pin-point-perfect-precise 3.5 degree slope on all my games. They all played OK, but some weren't as fun to flip as others.

    Once I stopped being a statistician and experimented with "what felt best" for each game... alakazam! Way more fun. Each game has a sweet spot. Tis worth finding it!

    #74 4 years ago
    Quoted from DRDAVE:

    Nope not crazy at all. In fact I think $2k is too cheap for all the work that goes into to these to make them look and play like new again. I get well north of $2k for my Restored EM games. Often close to twice that figure. I like to get paid for my time, parts and expertise.
    Dave (Doc)

    Oh definitely too cheap to sell. That minimum $2k figure is FOR ME. Haha... as a business that had better be 50%-100% more considering the enormous amount of time and effort involved!

    High-end restoration is true craftsmanship. It is something to be proud of. You can't buy machines like this anymore nor import them overnight from China. It takes time and effort and patience and dedication and attention and experience and a love of the game and isn't free. And, like any "well made thing", it elicits joy and wonder in all who partake of it.

    I think that's the Main Thing for me... the social aspect/sharing experience. Expending the effort to go all-out for that last ounce of "wow" is what it is all about. It is about creating and sharing magic.

    #75 4 years ago
    Quoted from Robotoes:

    been lurking this a bit (because I love this discussion), but I think Dirt said it best - that it comes down to a judgement call, on a game-by-game basis.

    Great thread. I agree with this.

    Personally for me an all original game untouched is the top of the tree but in the real world these games are exceptionally hard to find. My 'best' game is a 1954 Mystic Marvel with zero touch up's on cabinet and p/f, even original glass ( with a few touch up's ). I intend leaving it well alone as it can only be original once.

    Whilst that is my ideal, it just isn't possible to have a collection of games like this so for me every game is a judgement call.

    I have a Nick Raschilla restoration with a NOS p/f - it looks like 1961 NIB. Game is Flipper Fair. Would I prefer a beautiful original? Would I value that higher than mine? Sure I would. But finding one might never happen.

    And then I have a game 1960, where someone has already re-touched front of cabinet badly, so on that game I will touch it in to try and make a better job of it.

    And lastly some totally restored games are restored because they are basket cases. Great they are brought back from the dead but the wear on components is likely to be far higher than a low play original game.

    As for clear coating, I noticed a post by Clay saying he wished he had clear coated more of his 50's games which was interesting. I wouldn't want a 50's pf cleared but I can see his logic for choosing to.

    Boy, flexibility is needed in the em world

    #76 4 years ago
    Quoted from EMsInKC:

    Operators left them out there as long as they were making money. They weren't inclined to do the stuff people do today to keep the games in operation, because they were on location for a few years then pulled and replaced by other games. Any money spent on that type of upkeep was money out of their pockets. They cleaned the glass and replaced burned out bulbs and rubbers if they broke. Other than that, they just left them to be played.
    The games were never designed to be in operation more than a few years anyway.

    I have to disagree with this depiction that operators were minimalists back in the day (50's to 70's). Quite the contrary. The few I encountered were fastidious about keeping the playfields and games in general maintained so they would keep earning well.

    My evidence is in the games in my collection. Only one has a repainted cabinet (my choice) and only one has a repainted playfield (which was rough when I got it even though the rest of the game was exceptional).

    I can understand why many want their games restored only I haven't had to address this. Maybe I got all the nice original games.

    #77 4 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    When I was young most EM games were taken off route before they showed any significant wear to make room for the new games. Probably because they had stopped making money. Wherever they were kept between then and now, that is how I hope to find them now.

    they ended up in the places i played... the great majority of games i played as a yute were on at least their 2nd or 3rd (possibly 4th or 5th) location...

    #78 4 years ago

    fwiw, i feel both ways, as i think many do...

    preference would be to start with a "nice" original and leave it that way (with the possible exception of a few little things that i feel make the machine more reliable/easier to work on)...

    realistically, "we" don't come across those very often (some people do, and i'm eternally jealous of them)...

    that being said, even for beat up machines, i think that very few of them actually get the "full restore" treatment when the group is taken as a whole... most of us bring them home, shop them (to whatever level "we" consider shopped), get them working 100% and go ahead and play them... some of us cannot help ourselves, and will spend money on bg's that really don't need to be replaced... but i don't believe that the majority of pf's and cabs are getting "restored"...

    do i wish all my machines had laser flat pf's, with no cupping, etc.? sure... but they don't...

    as far as "set up", anyone who specifically says "this is what this game played like 40 years ago" is likely kidding themselves... set them up the way YOU like them... i have a couple games with the levelers cranked all the way up, and i have a couple with a much softer pitch...

    #79 4 years ago

    as far as clear coating goes...

    afaik, didn't games come with a clear coat over the paint?

    i think the issue is the "auto clear" method of clear coating... since i am incompetent in this area, and i would like poison myself if i tried, i wouldn't even try it...

    but i think that if a pf has been repainted/touched up/repaired, it should at least be varathane'd... again, not my specialty, i am NOT a painter/artist...

    #80 4 years ago
    Quoted from Frax:

    That's it man, I'm putting in phillips screws in all my Gottliebs!

    Im actually doing a restore on a SS Gottlieb and using 1/4" head screws from current era games where I can.. is this considered blasphemy?

    Below is a cab we just refinished for a drop a card

    FullSizeRender (33).jpg

    #81 4 years ago
    Quoted from ccotenj:

    but i think that if a pf has been repainted/touched up/repaired, it should at least be varathane'd... again, not my specialty, i am NOT a painter/artist...

    Yeah that's the catch. You can't touch up a playfield without putting some kind of protection over it. Even the quick and dirty "paint and wipe off" trick to fill white dot wear will come off pretty quickly. Sometimes you can spot clear a solitary problem area, but even then the shine wouldn't match the rest (and might look worse under reflected light).

    Not much middle ground with playfields. If you can't live with it as-is, I don't know of any other options with comparable quality to original than going full resto...

    #82 4 years ago

    EMs had a clear lacquer coat over the paint. It was not at all the equivalent of the clear coating going on now.

    As for Phillips screws, slot head screws are the spawn of the devil. They belong in one place. A trash can.

    #83 4 years ago
    Quoted from DirtFlipper:

    It's not that all games should be preserved as untouched, original. Average games, in average to below average condition make great candidates to go all out on. Better titles, in lesser condition especially; lesser titles, in lesser condition - probably not worth it.
    But it's the true survivor games, those time capsules that are in above to well above average condition that are better left alone (cleaned up, tuned up, rebuilt - yes, but left original where feasible, not counting consumables and other fine print). The tragedy is when these get the full treatment, and the opportunity to leave them as nice survivors is lost. Once restored, they can be restored a dozen times over. But there's no going back from the non-reversible stuff like repaints and clears.
    It boils down to a judgment call, but as the population of truly nice originals dwindles, the premiums tend to get placed there (at least among most collectibles and antiques, in the long run).
    [I'm OK with all the Bally/Williams/ChiCoin/United/Genco stuff getting restored though. Have at it.]

    As some of you may know from personal or email experience, my collection is biased toward machines that are heavily restored and most of my 1960's-70s games fall into that category. I do have a strong interest in the wood rails and have been fortunate to find many that are essentially untouched and as original as one gets. This is to say that there are new coils, or rubbers, fuses, etc. to make them functional, but leaving the playfield, art glass, plastics and cabinet original.

    Much love on the forum to the Gottlieb machines (most of my collection) and Williams (Official Baseball and Jig Saw), but I recently acquired two rare and original Gencos. The '57 Show Boat plays great, and has a 5 paint color cabinet - somewhat of a "wow" statement at that time. Yes, lots of wear, but original. My commentary is geared toward the 1952 Springtime, which just underwent some shopping and cleaning. A really cool game that plays 100%, has reverse flippers, and a ball elevator in the backglass to provide animation: a bagatelle which scores points similarly to the Genco skill games.

    To me, I like these antiques so much, I dedicated a little alcove in the basement just for the Gencos. True, you don't see much of the cabinets this way, but a 63 year old survivor has all the je nais se quoi, as is, and doesn't beg to be painted.

    Enclosing a little video of the play: http://vimeo.com/116675853

    J

    springtime 5.jpg springtime 2.jpg springtime 3.jpg springtime 4.jpg
    #84 4 years ago

    Whoa. You just don't find 'em like that anymore. Great video! Can we do all pin videos like that w/appropriate music and editing? Thumbs up!

    #85 4 years ago
    Quoted from oldcarz:

    As some of you may know from personal or email experience, my collection is biased toward machines that are heavily restored and most of my 1960's-70s games fall into that category. I do have a strong interest in the wood rails and have been fortunate to find many that are essentially untouched and as original as one gets. This is to say that there are new coils, or rubbers, fuses, etc. to make them functional, but leaving the playfield, art glass, plastics and cabinet original.
    Much love on the forum to the Gottlieb machines (most of my collection) and Williams (Official Baseball and Jig Saw), but I recently acquired two rare and original Gencos. The '57 Show Boat plays great, and has a 5 paint color cabinet - somewhat of a "wow" statement at that time. Yes, lots of wear, but original. My commentary is geared toward the 1952 Springtime, which just underwent some shopping and cleaning. A really cool game that plays 100%, has reverse flippers, and a ball elevator in the backglass to provide animation: a bagatelle which scores points similarly to the Genco skill games.
    To me, I like these antiques so much, I dedicated a little alcove in the basement just for the Gencos. True, you don't see much of the cabinets this way, but a 63 year old survivor has all the je nais se quoi, as is, and doesn't beg to be painted.
    Enclosing a little video of the play: » Vimeo video
    J

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    Yes. I like that Genco painted their cabinets to match the theme of the game. The 1951 Hits and Runs that I repaired had some really nice cabinet art. I can see that Springtime is just as hard to keep a ball in play.

    #86 4 years ago

    I like the music selection. I request "Springtime For Hitler" as the music for the next video of your "Springtime" machine.

    #87 4 years ago
    Quoted from Rat_Tomago:

    I like the music selection. I request "Springtime For Hitler" as the music for the next video of your "Springtime" machine.
    » YouTube video

    Well, Springtime was made by Genco. Genco was founded by three Gensburg brothers...who were Jewish.

    #88 4 years ago
    Quoted from Rat_Tomago:

    I like the music selection. I request "Springtime For Hitler" as the music for the next video of your "Springtime" machine.
    » YouTube video

    Very funny. I'll keep that in mind. Mel Brooks is the man!

    J

    #89 4 years ago

    Funny I have never measured the angle on my EMs. I jack the back legs up and the front all the way down, make sure I have all new coil sleeves and a well waxed playfield.

    I hate to sell a normal (non-minty) EM because it doesn't bring enough money to change my lifestyle any. For instance, I sold my AFM a while back and it brought me a big pile of cash that I could do a lot with. If I sell my player's Flip a Card, it might get $400-500. I can spend that in a weekend or to take a date to a basketball game and nice dinner. The loss in fun is not worth the gain in cash. At some point I will get too overloaded and have to sell a few EMs. Even still I will sell the ones that can bring closer to $1000+.

    #90 4 years ago
    Quoted from swampfire:

    Just curious, are you going to put that under a blacklight? I had the same thought, but for a custom pin I want to do some day.

    20150114_225817.jpg
    We started on crescendo tonight. We're probably about halfway done, so ignore the squiggly line. I think a black light will be amazing..

    #91 4 years ago

    I wouldn't pay that much for an EM, but that's because I'm in this hobby because I like to restore them. If I had $2500 burning away in my pocket, I'd much rather buy 12-25 project machines and get them up and running again.

    #92 4 years ago

    Pay what you can afford. If you want it now, grab it. Time is money, and for me...it actually stresses me to wait. The last thing I'll ever say on my deathbed is..."you know, I shouldn't have paid 2k for that antique pinball with all those moving parts and art work that looks amazing and is so fun that I may be underwater on that is a damn cool thing to own". If my estate gets .50 on the dollar...that's their problem.

    #93 4 years ago
    Quoted from DaveH:

    I might be in the minority of this thread, but I wouldn't pay 2500 for any EM games. Part of the charm of an EM game is how much value it provides. Crazy good value, and so much fun that can be bought inexpensively. I will grant you that it may be because so few people desire them, but when they are in the 2500 range, I want something more.
    There is nothing like a well sorted EM. But gives it to me in original shape with 40 years of history. Get it playing well, and set me lose on it. It's going to be a fun night!

    + 1 The charm of EM's is in the wear spots, the fading paint on the cabinet, the tarnished chrome. I too like my EM's in their natural state. Clean waxed and playing 100% is just how I like them. To me doing a ground up resto on any EM takes away from it's story, it's charm.

    My 2c
    Brian

    #94 4 years ago

    "Minty" Isn't that a word the DMD'rs use? I want to see tar on my cigarette holders. I want burns on my woodrails! Oh, it came from a non-smoking home? Well, that's OK too I guess.

    #95 4 years ago
    Quoted from John_I:

    Funny I have never measured the angle on my EMs. I jack the back legs up and the front all the way down, make sure I have all new coil sleeves and a well waxed playfield.

    ....

    I hate to sell a normal (non-minty) EM because it doesn't bring enough money to change my lifestyle any. For instance, I sold my AFM a while back and it brought me a big pile of cash that I could do a lot with. If I sell my player's Flip a Card, it might get $400-500. I can spend that in a weekend or to take a date to a basketball game and nice dinner. The loss in fun is not worth the gain in cash. At some point I will get too overloaded and have to sell a few EMs. Even still I will sell the ones that can bring closer to $1000+.

    part 1: works for me... i use 3" ones in the back, start with them a bit past halfway, level it and go from there... that spot usually works good enough for me, at least until my buddy comes over to play a machine for the first couple times... he always wants to screw around with them, so i let him...

    part 2: excellent point... it's hard to sell a machine at that price, because it just isn't "worth it"... i keep trying to decide which one i want to sell to make room for something new, and i can't... i want the machines more than i want the money...

    #96 4 years ago
    Quoted from ccotenj:

    part 2: excellent point... it's hard to sell a machine at that price, because it just isn't "worth it"... i keep trying to decide which one i want to sell to make room for something new, and i can't... i want the machines more than i want the money...

    I solved that problem by not selling a game until one comes along that I want more than one of the machines I already have.

    #97 4 years ago
    Quoted from DaveH:

    I might be in the minority of this thread, but I wouldn't pay 2500 for any EM games. Part of the charm of an EM game is how much value it provides. Crazy good value, and so much fun that can be bought inexpensively. I will grant you that it may be because so few people desire them, but when they are in the 2500 range, I want something more.
    There is nothing like a well sorted EM. But gives it to me in original shape with 40 years of history. Get it playing well, and set me lose on it. It's going to be a fun night!

    I'm with you. Good play for good value.

    And to me the nicks, dents, scars, and writing on an EM cabinet tells a great story of its 40+ years of life. "No matter how you treat me I keep going on"

    I like making the PF nice and the art on the BG is the whole reason to have it. But small imperfections are ok.

    Don't get me wrong a minty survivor is great. I'd love them.

    I just am not the guy to drop a grand into a machine I wouldn't pay 700 for.

    Who knows. Maybe I'm this way because I just don't have the money or the patience to make them perfect.

    Bert

    #98 4 years ago
    Quoted from fflint_18:

    I'm with you. Good play for good value.
    And to me the nicks, dents, scars, and writing on an EM cabinet tells a great story of its 40+ years of life. "No matter how you treat me I keep going on"
    I like making the PF nice and the art on the BG is the whole reason to have it. But small imperfections are ok.

    Same here. My games may not all be beauty queens but they are all loads of fun to play. I try to find nice examples but I`m OK with there scars. I am really a fan of the art on these machines. I do agree that I would and have paid a premium for nice unmolested survivors.

    1 week later
    #99 4 years ago

    I'm surprised there haven't been some comparisons to the vintage car market here; a lot of the same refrains are heard. "Don't restore that car, it's a survivor, sell it or drive it as is!" "It's patina!"

    I agree with not doing a restoration if a machine is in a playable condition, and further play won't degrade the machine further (i.e. if it's got an actively flaking playfield, something needs to be done before playing it a lot), a case can be made for leaving it as a "survivor".

    But if it's completely shot from a mechanical, playfield or cabinet perspective, it's not worth much in that state (in my opinion). Doing a restoration would result in a playable machine that someone who doesn't care about owning a survivor (like ME, for example ) could enjoy probably for the rest of his/her life. So, in that case, do it!

    Going back to the car analogy: One thing that could be done in a pin resto where things like backglasses and/or playfields are replaced, is to include the original parts in the sale (or keep them if you're keeping the machine itself). That's what the car guys do when they replace wheels or other parts on a car.

    Myself, if someone made reproduction parts to build an entire machine from nothing except those parts (such that it contained no original parts), but the result looked authentic, played authentic, sounded authentic etc., I'd totally be on board with that. Many of you would probably disagree with me in the strongest possible terms.

    Brad

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