Well, you'd have to say well less than 8k...

6?

Popped and ready to go

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Yep another post about how the original aint worth jack compared to the new superior mmr. Back to case in point if it is beat use mmr to your advantage when shopping for a route beater. Start at 5k you can always go up.

A brand new copy will be worth more than a 20 year routed beater to almost everyone. That's just obvious.

Ask him what he wants for it first. Let him make the first move.

If the MMR is at 8 k new then we shouldn't see originals over 8 k. Any original MM over 7 k should be cherry.

this.

4 to 5k

Yeah, does he know the going rates for route beat pins? He might be happy with less than you think!

i can't imagine there's many original cherry machines out there. most have been "refaked" with new playfields, cabs, or other alterations making them not original.

i would pay 3000-3100 for an original refake. if it is truly original i wouldn't want it because i can buy a nib very soon.

I would buy a cherry original MM for $9-10k right now and I'm not even looking for this title. A beat one on the other hand not so much. The beat ones took the hit.

The cherry originals will always be worth much more than a refake.

I wouldn't even be interested in a beat one unless you could get it well under $6k… go for a nicer original or restored one even if you have to pay $8-10k plus.

In my opinion, his game is worth 8k minus whatever cost/labor it would take to put it in NIB condition, minus an additional grand for being the "old" version, and not a cherry one.

Without seeing the game is tough, but 5k seems like a fair offer for a routed beater.

Teekee beat a dead horse much? Or just love saying refaced over and over? Yes we know you lost your golden goose. Getting so old man, broken record ect. Let it go the remake will have improved audio, it will end up being a better sounding machine.

Back on topic, 6 k should be max for this.otherwise get a new one.

5000-6000k

LOL.

Too bad there are not too many of them....

I dont know much about pinball, but I know a little about negotiating. He who drops a # first....loses. Let him start.

Sure you would ...sellers lining up i think

I agree a new one will be worth more than a beater. What I meant was the guys who say a new remake is worth more than a used MM period.

Medieval Madness 1997 Williams
Class 1 - $8,550-Best
Class 2 - $5,650-Good
Class 3 - $3,000-OK
http://pinballeric.com/
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zero interest in sellers old machines i'm getting a nib.

Are these prices from 1998?

I wouldn't want to be into more than 6k total (after all the costs of getting back to "really nice players condition").

I'd love to find an "ok" Medieval Madness at that price. I'm not holding my breath.

No just post MMr prices..

Call HEP or similar. Ask how much, ball parkish, it would take to make a routed MM cherry perfect.
Subtract that amount from what you could purchase a cherry perfect MM for.
Offer that amount.

Yeah, the guys that quote these kind of prices know better. They are just trying to get a rise out of current MM owners.

Anyone thinking that MMR being announced will make an "OK" MM worth 3k is delusional.

So, you work for the guy.

How much to you value your job?

OH NO! Pinball Eric is back! AHHHHHHHHHHHH!

i can't imagine an "ok" machine selling for less but you might be correct...

I'll take as many 3K MMs as I can get, all day, every day.

proof that there's one born every second

And you wouldn't? I guess time will tell.

i wouldn't drop 3k on a beater mm, guaranteed. to get it up to a nib mmr level of quality would cost more than the nib mm. that's my logic anyway.

Well I bet just about everyone else would drop 3k in a heartbeat.

Putting 5k into an original will get you a pretty decent example. A new cab with decals and a playfield will put you back only about 2k so you have 3 to put into the rest of the game and could have one in your lineup befor MMR lands. That beig said you have to find the 3k base game. Someone sell
me a 3k MM in "OK" condition and Ill run the experiment.

"The beat ones took the hit. I wouldn't even be interested in a beat one unless you could get it well under $6k… go for a nicer original or restored one even if you have to pay $8-10k plus."

Yes.

"The cherry originals will always be worth much more than a refake."

Very cherry originals (9 and 10's) yes, but what'll happen to sort-of cherry originals ( 6 - 8 ) will depend on what PPS does with this remake. PPS can put out an excellent MMr (and follow that up with other desirable titles such as CCr), or, alternatively, put out a toy-like MMr and kill the goose that laid the golden egg.

Yep, everyone knows this, it's just wishful thinking.

Soooo, roughly $0.?

I would say there is roughly zero chance (given what we already know) that PPS will put out a "toy-like MMr".

I sure hope your right, but this market will pass the judgment when the time comes.

There has been a lot of discussion about this issue, but has anyone actually seen one change hands since the big announcement?

This.

The MMr is far enough along to affect MM prices, certainly. How much? Hard to say until they change hands.

All the hand-wringing about how much MMr affects prices AFTER it's released is idle speculation in need of a LOT more info. MMr *could* be enough better than MM to really hurt it. Or it could be mediocre enough to not affect it much at all. Hard to say on this one.

As for "call HEP", that's not a good answer, either. I feel VERY confident that while an MMr might be VERY nice, I still very much doubt the playfield clearcoat will be quite as good as hand done work by Chris. I also very much doubt a pin right off any assembly line will play as good, nor for as long, as a pin done by Chris. They simply don't and won't have THAT much attention to detail on an assembly line. And I wouldn't expect them to.

That said, at last check Chris says MM's are running $5-6k for him to restore for an average condition machine. But I just don't see beater MM's EVER dropping to sub-$3k to compensate for what it would take for Chris to restore one. Sub-$5k? Maybe, but MMr will definitely have to be amazing. Oh, and far more available than just the ones that get preordered...continued production will be required for a while.

But then the question starts to become "how big is this hobby?" As in "how many $8k+ machines can this hobby support being sold at one time?" Or better yet, *all* the time? I still feel like it could devalue nearly *all* high end machines...

--Donnie

Yep. When the music stops, somebody is gonna be looking for a seat.

One of two things will happen. Either the boutique guys all come through with good machines, creating a massive influx of machines and producing the "bubble" that so many have predicted for so many years. More $8000 and $9000 machines are produced, and people start having to make hard decisions and sacrifices to make room. If that happens any more than it already has, the value of everything has to start decreasing to equilibrium, and then when the buzz is over, everything crashes.

-or-

New machines end up being failures, or just not fun, or problematic, etc.... If nothing lives up to the B/W greats of the 90's, the market for the new stuff plummets and send the MB, AFM, MM prices back into orbit.

Best case scenario for MMR buyers is that the quality and feel are truly equal to the original. If that happens, original MM takes a hit and MMR retains and gains value. They end up with similar value, as some will want the new tech, some will want the "real deal". Worst case scenario for MMR buyers is that there is some discernible difference in the make and feel of the new machines from the original. If that happens, everyone wants the "real deal" again, and new buzz puts the value of MM into the stratosphere.

But either way, the declarations of a bottomed-out, or even heavily affected market, for MM right now seem to be premature. Yes, it is easy to say that MMR has forced the market for MM to "less than $8000". But we haven't actually seen that market correction take place. MM market was cyclical as it was - a new high sell price would be seen, and 5-10 would hit the market and sell. But then they would go dark for 6-9 months. I saw it happen when I searched for months for mine. I would consider selling my MM, and would accept that the market uncertainty right now means that I missed out on the high water mark for now. But I would not even begin to entertain taking something in the $8K range for a nice original MM right now. Uncertainty works both ways. It might end up at $8K next year. But, then again, it might go to $20K.

I think ~6K~ would seem pretty fair for the buyer, but not knowing how long the seller has owned it is the X-factor, if he is into it for 8.5K I wouldnt imagine 6K'ish would put an agreeable look on his face.

Id just get a new playfield and swap it in, now the game will play like a champ but at that $ point you might as well just get a MMr unless you desire an original version of the MM

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I think the key word here is, "routed."

Don't fool yourself into thinking that you can buy an original for less than $8K unless it is "routed."

Agreed! Until these remakes hit the market, it's status quo.