(Topic ID: 225496)

Stern Electronics Club (1977-1984).

By Mitch

5 years ago


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Topic index (key posts)

11 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 10 items.

Display key post list sorted by: Post date | Keypost summary | User name

Post #227 Various gate tips. Posted by cottonm4 (5 years ago)

Post #269 Hi quality thoughts from Cotton about inlanes. Posted by cottonm4 (5 years ago)

Post #279 Playfield touch up tips. Posted by klr650 (5 years ago)

Post #309 Stern inserts suggestions. Posted by cottonm4 (5 years ago)

Post #310 Seawitch gate flap solution. Posted by frunch (5 years ago)

Post #1033 Bally drop targets on the classic stern, even mix and match. Posted by cottonm4 (5 years ago)

Post #1958 Star Gazer podcast episode link. Posted by DRDAVE (4 years ago)

Post #2587 Link to 3D printed parts available from HHaase. Posted by HHaase (4 years ago)

Post #2590 Link to 3D printed parts by Swinks, available at Shapeways. Posted by swinks (4 years ago)


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#363 5 years ago
4 weeks later
#592 5 years ago
Quoted from TomT:

What are you guys using as a replacement speaker in the early Sterns?

You could try one of these:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/new-6-inch-speakers-found

1 week later
#647 5 years ago
Quoted from SteveF-Detroit:

Help needed! Looking for the pictured chip. This is from my Stars, game plays fully but some of the chimes coils are not firing. Was told to replace the chip, anyone know where I can order one?

Was the 74L154 chip actually diagnosed as faulty? They rarely fail.

#650 5 years ago
Quoted from SteveF-Detroit:

I don’t know anything about board work but I tried the board in a HG and the pops were dead but when hit the saucer kickers would fire.

If all pop bumpers didn't work on the Harlem Globetrotters then the drop target resets wouldn't be working in your Stars.
Your solenoid driver board has double sided tracks making it more difficult to remove that chip without the right equipment/skills.
I'd suggest you open a tech support thread in the "Tech: Early solid state" subforum where we can help you diagnose the actual fault.

#652 5 years ago
Quoted from SteveF-Detroit:

Put the board back in Stars and confirmed the drop resets are not working, no chimes either but pop, slings and flippers work fine

With the limited info, it looks like there's a breakdown in the signal on the solenoid driver board from pin 4 of connector J4 to leg 21 of the 74L154 chip. That signal is used when selecting chimes and the drop target reset solenoids.
It could be corrosion on that pin causing poor connectivity, a cracked solder joint on the back of the board where that pin is, damage to that trace signal running to the 74L154 or the 74L154 chip itself. If you have a multi-meter or logic probe we can further diagnose it but it's better done in the tech subforum if you want to follow up.

3 months later
#1129 5 years ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

Where can I get them?

vpforums.org

1 month later
#1438 5 years ago
Quoted from Mitch:

What's the factory playfield flipper coils and what's the factory backbox flipper coil?

Flipper coils are listed in the manual:
Playfield: J-25-475/34-4500
Backbox: J-25-600/34-4500

Quoted from Mitch:

Also need some pics of the piece in the backbox that holds the ball on the flipper when you remove the backglass

See here:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/catacomb-club/page/2#post-2484855
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/catacomb-club/page/9#post-4494769

Quoted from Mitch:

and a pic of the gate in the backbox as mine is missing.

You'll find pictures in the Catacomb club thread including measurements for making one up.
[Edit] found some links:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/catacomb-club/page/3#post-2593644
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/catacomb-club/page/3#post-2612565
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/catacomb-club/page/3#post-2612568

1 month later
#1557 4 years ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

From Hot Hand to Dragonfist, they will all fit.

Trident came out before Hot Hand.
The Trident I had as a teen had the earlier screw studs mounting lockdown bar.
I think the lockdown bar changed during Hot Hand production?? My Hot Hand also has the screw stud lockdown bar (I seem to remember adjusting the screws about a year ago to get the lockdown bar to fit more snuggly).

[Edit] Trident lockdown bar receiver shows it needs the earlier screw stud mounting lockdown bar.
https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=6443&picno=70571&zoom=1

Hot Hand showing it has the later lockdown bar receiver for the metal slot latch mounting lockdown bar.
https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=1244&picno=6106&zoom=1

1 month later
#1830 4 years ago
Quoted from Flynnyfalcon:

So I’m in discussion with my tech guy trying to solve my issue, but thought I’d also ask the considerable brains trust on here, hoping it’ll speed things up.

I suggest you open a tech support thread in the Early Solid State Tech sub-forum:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/forum/tech-early-80s-solid-state

Post pictures of how your transformer is wired and the three connectors that are plugged onto the rectifier board clearly showing the wire colors/positions.

Quoted from Flynnyfalcon:

Some basic research has me thinking the in-line filter may be stuffed

The inline EMI filter is before fuse F6 so that fuse doesn't protect against a filter fault. A problem with that filter will hopefully trip a fuse in your house fuse box.

#1841 4 years ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

The only difference that I can find is that the F-4 fuse on the rectifier board is rated at 5 amps for the 16B-3 and F-4 fuse is rated at 7 amps on the 16B-6. I don't know why Stern bumped the 16B-6 to 7 amp fuse.

Yeah, transformer upgraded for higher solenoid current. You might notice most if not all MPU200 games have stronger flippers compared to the MPU100 games.
Most MPU100 games had 25-500/34-5050 flipper coils while the MPU200 games used 25-475/34-4500. Galaxy even lists 25-450/34-4500
Plus a number of MPU200 games had 4 flippers.

Quoted from Redketchup:

I want to put a Catacomb in a dracula cab?

Is this a scratch build from a Catacomb playfield only? If yes, what are you doing for the head lightboard with the bagatelle artwork?

1 month later
2 weeks later
#2194 4 years ago
Quoted from Whridlsoncestood:

On ali all greatest letters on left shot flicker still. On dragon fist it’s a few around the blue bonus inserts.

The "greatest" inserts on Ali are the very first lamps to be refreshed during the zero crossing routine. If on Dragon Fist you're talking about the 1000-8000 blue bonus inserts then same story. The SCRs driving those LEDs will find it most difficult to latch since the DC voltage is at the lowest point in the lamp refresh cycle and the current isn't yet at the right level for the SCR to latch in certain conditions. The types of LEDs used will probably be a factor but lower value resistors may likely be needed on those first lamp outputs in order to draw more current to help the SCRs latch.

#2197 4 years ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

I currently have some other problems going on with my Dragonfist at the moment, but when it was working, there were no flickering LEDs. I am using a Bally LDA and a set of Hans's adaptor sets are mounted. For the blue and green bonus inserts, I am using 4-SMD units/bulbs from Comet. I am 100% LED in this pin with the exception of 18 yellow feature lights which are still incandescent.

I have done nothing special. How/why did I get lucky and miss this flickering issue?

As mentioned in my previous post, the blue bonus lamps are the first lamps to be refreshed during the zero crossing service routine - they are the ones most likely to suffer from flickering. Your using 4-SMD LEDs which draw more current than the single/twin SMD LEDs others are using. This results in more current through the SCRs allowing them to better reach latch current hold threshold.
Once you get the game working again it might be interesting to swap some of those blue 4-SMD LEDs particularly at 1k - 4k bonus to low cost non SMDs or single SMD and see what happens.

Your feature lamp voltage maybe a bit higher than others possibly due to the way your transformer is tapped resulting in slightly increased current draw.

You might be lucky that the batch/manufacturer of SCRs on your lamp driver board have lower than normal hold latch current characteristics. Spec for the 2N5060 and MCR106 SCRS state that holding current is 5ma "Max" meaning the worst case SCRs need to see at least 5ma before latching. In other words you might have SCRs capable of latching at lower currents. This is why when some people swap SCRs it fixes their issue.

#2214 4 years ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

Ok, not expecting many answers on this but here goes!

My Catacomb will 100% of the time award an extra 20000 points each time a drop target set completes.

I just looked up your MPU board picture you previously posted and notice you have RA28G ROMs meanwhile RA32 are the version in the wild and what I've twice recently seen.

We need you to get your ROMs dumped! They might be special with other differences!

FYI, Alltek is running Catacomb code matching the RA32 code.

#2217 4 years ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

Thanks - so it's basically early code?

Potentially yes. Looks like the German Stern ROM list for Catacomb may have started at version 25 - see page 3 of the below pdf.

It would be great if they could be dumped and the code preserved for the community.

Stern_ROM_list.pdfStern_ROM_list.pdf

#2218 4 years ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

It was a blown fuse on the rectifier baord. A 4amp fuse on F3. It is working fine now. But my big question is why did the fuse blow in the first place?

Did the old fuse blow violently or was it just open circuit? Got a picture?
Do you have LED displays?

#2220 4 years ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

Wonder which version is most fun to play?

The question is whether there's other differences in your version.

#2223 4 years ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

I would say it blew violently. There is quite a gap between blown electrode?/wire.

It looks like it was a new fuse that blew so it had already been recently replaced?
Suspect it will probably happen again till the cause is found.

#2243 4 years ago
Quoted from HHaase:

Just to confirm, it looks like I'm able to register switches on the upper header, but not on the lower header.

I can trigger all coils, and the flipper relay, by grounding their respective tabs on the solenoid driver board.

Measure the voltage at test point TP3 on the solenoid driver board. If you don't read 5 volts, you've lost voltage to the solenoid logic and predriver circuit on the solenoid driver board. Usually happens due to a bad connection on the 5 volt loop wire at connector J3 that runs from pin 13 to 25.
See the section from the solenoid driver board schematic below:

SDB_TP3 (resized).jpgSDB_TP3 (resized).jpg

1 week later
#2297 4 years ago
Quoted from HHaase:

I think I'm just going to rebuild the whole circuit for that coil on the SDB, from the 3081 on down.

The transistor usually only blows when there's a problem with the diode on the coil preventing the back EMF being blocked, otherwise most other issues should cause the solenoid fuse under the playfield to blow, not the transistor. Check that fuse and make sure someone hasn't overfused it. Should be a 1 amp slow blow. Banded side of the coil diode should be on the yellow wire. Measure the DC resistance of that coil, it should probably be in the 9 - 10 ohm range.

#2305 4 years ago
Quoted from grandy:

Need a little help with a Dracula flipper rebuild.
I just noticed that the switch stack on one flipper appears to have an extra switch... the tabs on the switch base aren't connected to anything

Quoted from djblouw:

Here’s kinda what is should look like

Quoted from chuckwurt:

I think that extra switch it to drive the upper flipper.

Quoted from grandy:

That’s s good guess, but the upper flipper was working before I tore the playfield down, so who knows!

As djblouw and chuckwurt showed/mentioned, that extra switch is for activating the upper left flipper.
It looks like somebody's bypassed that second switch so the upper flipper activates the same time as the lower flipper. The consequence is the left flippers will be weaker than normal because there's more current strain on the transformer the moment you flip.
Those flipper mech switches should be setup so the EOS switch opens first, then the secondary switch closes to activate the upper flipper.

3 months later
#2593 4 years ago
Quoted from Whridlsoncestood:

My buddy is cleaning up my catacomb mpu and was checking the rom revision. Looks like it’s a later revision that’s not documented anywhere (RA23 opposed to standard RA22). Does anyone have any info about this revision. He’s dissecting it currently but thinks it’s pretty different than RA22.

I've dumped two Catacomb MPU boards that had RA32 ROMs - one board had a faulty U1 that read differently on each read, but everything else including the four ROMs on the second board matched the RA22 ROM set on IPDB.
So is your RA23 actually different to RA22?

Added over 4 years ago:

Looks like I made a boo boo, it appears the boards I dumped had RA22 ROMs.

#2595 4 years ago
Quoted from slochar:

It is, but it might just be shifted up about 15-17 bytes in most locations. As to if there's any minute differences between the roms, that's going to require a full disassembly and analysis of both.

Question is which is the latest? And is the set on IPDB a typo and really RA32?
Both boards I dumped had original RA32 labels.

Added over 4 years ago:

Looks like I made a boo boo, it appears the boards I dumped had RA22 ROMs and the typo was on my side.

2 months later
#2940 4 years ago
Quoted from frunch:

I'd like to know which wire i should be fusing with the 1/4a HV fuse if anyone can help.

It's the red high voltage wire going to pin 1 at the displays. Fuse the wire before the first display the wire connects to which is probably the player 1 display.

#2991 4 years ago

Love my Hot Hand..

There's actually two unpopulated switches in the switch matrix that spot the Ace. One scores 500 points, the other scores endlessly like the upper pockets.
Makes me wonder if that was the original intention of the white left standup near the spinner. Or maybe the ROMs were designed with a secondary layout/game in mind like Stern did with other MPU-100 games.

#2993 4 years ago
Quoted from slochar:

one of the few with the software mods that ended up making it slightly easier

I intend to make it harder, getting bonus multipliers is too easy

#2997 4 years ago
Quoted from slochar:

Are you going to make the multipliers tied to completing the line instead of just multiple cards in suits?

Yes, making suites will increment the bonus multiplier. Plus changing the below mentioned by Whridlsoncestood so when you complete the grid, it immediately switches to super jackpot bonus so you can start filling the grid again. Right now it becomes a dead end on the current ball in play.

Quoted from Whridlsoncestood:

If you fill the grid after you drain you can start filling another grid on another ball.

2 weeks later
#3068 4 years ago
Quoted from RoyGBev:

Wanted to find these for years, finally had the time. Didn't see it anywhere else so: The 500 point Ace is SW 22, the endless scoring Ace is SW 38.

Are you considering rewiring one of the Hot Hand playfield switches to spot the Ace?

#3070 4 years ago
Quoted from RoyGBev:

No, I like the difficulty.

Agreed, it would be too easy otherwise

Quoted from RoyGBev:

I think the idea someone had of building the second card immediately after completing the first (on the same ball) is a good one.

That was me. I'll be implementing it with other features after I'm done with some current projects.

2 months later
#3388 3 years ago
Quoted from hisokajp:

Got myself a used lockdown bar, trying to clean up before regaining the SS on top but I am not sure how to clean the rusted part underneath.

Don't think that's rust, it's the color plating (copper tone) they used on that bracket. I've seen it before. Wait for someone else to chime in and confirm before you chemically strip it.

1 month later
#3516 3 years ago

Make sure the wire that goes to the mains F6 fuse on the rectifier board is the one that's connected to Active (hot) pin on your power point plug.

#3526 3 years ago
Quoted from hisokajp:

anyone has a good source for a replacement speaker POTS?

Getting hard to find now.
You're looking for 25k ohm, 500mW logarithmic (audio taper) potentiometers.
None of the big electronic guys have them anymore.

You could try one of these - probably worth getting a suitable knob for it too:

ebay.com link: Alpha Potentiometer A25K Audio Taper Pot

Confirm with them that you're getting "A25k" pots which are logarithmic, and not "B25k" which are linear. You don't want linear because the volume wont adjust proportionately.

#3535 3 years ago
Quoted from woody76:

will this one work?

No, that potentiometer is for Ballys.
Clasic Sterns require a different pot. Look 9 posts up at post #3526 and #3527

#3539 3 years ago
Quoted from northvibe:

Wasn't there also "electronic cleaner" spray you could spray on and turn the pot to help clean the contacts?

Yes, like woody76 said, you can use alcohol to clean it.
I actually open them up to clean them and also retension the wipers while I'm there.

1 week later
#3651 3 years ago

When setting the EOS switch gap you should do it by pushing the metal plunger into the coil, not by turning the crank - i.e. simulate the actual solenoid behavior. Otherwise your setting doesn't take into account any slack in the mechanism.

#3679 3 years ago
Quoted from bluespin:

Can someone check their mpu100 “button” lockdown bar and see if there’s a part number stamped on the backside of the lockdown bar?

Not sure if this helps - from the Stern parts catalog. The MPU200 part number doesn't match what you've listed.

Stern_LockdownBar_79.jpgStern_LockdownBar_79.jpg

#3691 3 years ago
Quoted from bluespin:

I still need someone with a mpu100 pin to see if there are any easily identifiable parts on the back like the copper tabs on the mpu200 pins.

Any reason the seller can't just send you pictures to see if they have the MPU100 stud pins?

1 month later
#3826 3 years ago

The 1980 Williams parts catalog shows some switches with one of the contact rivets "upside down". Something tells me it's not a production mistake, it's by design.

Williams_Parts_Catalogue_1980_Switches.pdfWilliams_Parts_Catalogue_1980_Switches.pdf

#3828 3 years ago
Quoted from slochar:

Yes, a design mistake.

Have you ever looked at the the gnarly surfaced rivets on the switches in question? No way was that by design.

I don't dispute some accelerated wear, but there's no way they'd do it without a reason. Maybe the two flat surfaces swiping can cause multiple make/breaks when the switch gets a little dirty, where the rivet point is less likely.

#3832 3 years ago

Maybe we should ask BigAl56 if he's got any insight into the switches.

The gold contact switches in the 1981 Stern parts catalog all have one contact backwards.

Stern_Parts_Catalog_switches1.jpgStern_Parts_Catalog_switches1.jpg
Stern_Parts_Catalog_switches2.jpgStern_Parts_Catalog_switches2.jpg

#3834 3 years ago
Quoted from slochar:

Can you send me a scan of the stern catalog?

It's on PinWiki:
https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Bally/Stern#Parts_Catalogs
Switches are on PDF page 37 of 56; the video game stuff is in the beginning of that catalog.

1 week later
#3877 3 years ago

I like to think a dead bounce is also better off a flipper bat resting on the pin.

The pin might also partially act as Sterns version of a Bally/Williams snubber wire..

#3884 3 years ago
Quoted from A_Bord:

Are the pins really at the intended resting position of the flippers? Here I've had my flippers set up without enough angle all this time.

Yes. People make the mistake of aligning the flippers to be straight with the flipper return lane guides. It makes the flippers centre of the playfield centric where there's nothing to shoot for. It might be right for DMD games but not for these Sterns.

Quoted from HHaase:

Actually, they're not. I've been told more than a few times that the factory used a separate jig for aligning the flippers. The pins/holes were there to hold the jig. Though I've never seen any pictures to support this theory.

I'd be dubious about that info - how were operators around the world supposed to align the flippers without this special jig when the pins ideally served the purpose?
All the Sterns I remember playing in the early 80's had the flipper bats against the pins.

Quoted from HHaase:

The same roll pins are present in Williams machines too, as well as Bally of the same era.

Bally never used those pins on their early solid state games.

#3888 3 years ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

Honestly, the flippers just do not look right with the tips drooping down.

Heh, well I'm opposite. To me they don't look right when the flippers are straight with the return lanes and they sure don't play as well as factory "droop".

Quoted from cottonm4:

40 years ago in the arcades and bars all the pins I saw and played had the flippers lined up with the lane guides

I think Williams from that era aligned their flippers to be straight with the return lane guides. Been too long since I've been near one, maybe someone else can comment.

Quoted from HHaase:

I know there were also manufacturers that had them off the ends of the flippers too.

That would be Bally
Medusa's a perfect example with the flipper inserts under the flippers:

IMG_0013a.jpgIMG_0013a.jpg

#3917 3 years ago
Quoted from Tsskinne:

And here is my Dragonfist cabinet when my new Wyze security camera looks at the cabinet under night vision mode.
Obviously at some point it was a Catacomb cabinet

Wowee

#3919 3 years ago
Quoted from Tsskinne:

Yeah made me jump a little as I was moving the camera side ways following the dog haha

It must be something with the infrared LEDs on the camera. Can you see the Catacomb image when looking directly at the cabinet (not looking at the camera image) when the camera's pointing at it?

1 week later
#3941 3 years ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

I have no idea how Stern marked the coil wrap and what it signifies.

But I'll take a wild ass guess that the 37-7918 might be called the 7900 series. And the 37-8067 would be the 8000 series. As noted, I have no idea but will guess the larger -6 is going to be 8??? something.

Two digits are for the year of manufacture, the other two I think are week number of the year. Lots of semiconductors have this 4 digit date coding system.

-7918 manufactured 1979, the 18th week
-8067 manufactured 1980, you first mentioned this was 8027 so I presume it's a typo
-8027 manufactured 1980, the 27th week
-8014 manufactured 1980, the 14th week
-7932 manufactured 1979, the 32nd week, just before Meteor came out so it could be a 16B-6 made in readiness for Meteor.

#3942 3 years ago
Quoted from Flynnyfalcon:

Is input voltage determinable by visual inspection?

Normally I would say to check the manual, but in this case the online QuickSilver manual incorrectly has the 16B-3 transformer :-/

From another MPU-200 game manual: Your transformer picture above shows it's wired for 240V

Transformer_16B-6(1).pngTransformer_16B-6(1).png

1 month later
#4165 3 years ago
Quoted from emsrph:

But switch diodes are tiny and not 1N4004?

They're probably 1N4148 diodes.

3 weeks later
#4260 3 years ago
Quoted from HoakyPoaky:

So I’m inspecting the 16B-6 transformer on my scratch QS conversion...
Mine is wired for 115v with the yellow wire going to lug 9, and lugs 9 & 11 bridged.
So should I change the transformer setup to 120v? I tested my wall outlet with my multimeter & I’m getting 120.9v.

Nominal line voltage in the US and Canada is 120 volts +/- 5%.

120V into a 115V tapped transformer means the transformer is outputting marginally higher voltages. This means the game is dissipating a little more power for no good reason. A little more stress on power connectors and components. Will it work if you leave it? sure.

If as you said you want this build setup properly then change the transformer to 120V input.
Remove the yellow wire from lug 9 and cut the bridge wire between lugs 9 and 11.
Solder a heavy bridge wire across lugs 5 and 7 and solder the yellow wire to lug 5.

#4272 3 years ago

The change in line voltage specification to nominal 120V occurred in the 70's. The rollout didn't happen overnight.
Product manufacturers were still building to the old 115V spec and even for some time onwards.

For nearly 40 years the nominal line voltage in the US is and has been 120V +/- 5%.

See here under "USA Standard Residential Voltage"
https://www.w8ji.com/power_line_voltage.htm

#4278 3 years ago
Quoted from emsrph:

1- Do I have the orientation of this replacement MCR106 transistor correct.

Yes it's oriented correctly.

Quoted from emsrph:

2- Green stuff that you usually see coming out of connectors was on the original Q23 transistor and can be seen also on R23. Where does that come from and how do you clean it off, vinegar? Isopropyl alcohol doesn’t remove it.

If it's green gunk from wire, try hot water to remove it.
But that resistor looks like it has battery corrosion, better to replace it - otherwise remove it, scrape all the corrosion off it with a blade to expose copper, retin the legs with solder and reinstall.

1 month later
#4570 3 years ago
Quoted from pinheadpierre:

Could someone please tell me what component is at C1 on a Stern LDA-100 light board?

What exactly is the problem you're having and which game?
Which lamps aren't working properly and in what way?

1 week later
#4636 3 years ago
Quoted from RatShack:

I was looking at replacement plastics and the top arch on my game is yellow and has different artwork, where it's blue on the replacement plastics and every picture I've seen. QC date is 7/6/79. Prototype playfield?

There was a little discussion in the Stern Magic club thread about different plastic sets:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/classic-stern-magic-club-all-are-welcome/page/2#post-6033908

2 months later
#4937 2 years ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

I cannot get the 7th flash. Pinwiki says something about 43 volts.

First suspect is the F4 solenoid fuse on the rectifier board.

#4967 2 years ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

I'm pulling my hair out now.

What's switch test mode telling you?

#4972 2 years ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

I'll have to re-solder the disconnected switches and try that switch test.

Don't worry about resoldering those other switches yet, just go into switch test mode first.

#4984 2 years ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

Here is a switch test with no slings and 2 drops missing.

That's solenoid test mode. You need to press the self test button one more time to get to switch test mode. As slochar mentioned, if you have his Big Game ROM use the switch test mode from that which will give you *much* more detail about closed switches. The factory switch test mode is useful but does have limitations as he mentioned.

Quoted from cottonm4:

Per Stern blueprint, Q15 is somewhere in the coin door.

Q15 Q19 drives the coin lockout coil so the game will accept coins. This is normal. This coil de-activates when maximum credits are reached/game is off so any coins inserted get rejected.

[Edit] Q15 is for the flipper enable relay on the solenoid driver board.

Quoted from cottonm4:

When I now spin this funky spinner, all of my lights light up for no reason I can understand.

The MPU board signals controlling the switch matrix are the same signals that control lamp selection. So the problems are related.

emsrph and cadmium were right to suggest it could be coin door related (because of a stuck coin switch), but you've discounted that.
It's sounding like you have a switch matrix wire shorted to a lamp somewhere.

BTW, when and how did this problem begin to happen?

#4992 2 years ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

With what I just wrote about my feature lights, I think I can reconnect the feature lights wires back to the rectifier board and try something else.

The issue shouldn't have any relation to the lamp driver board or connections to/from it. The issue in your case is the 5.4VDC feature lamp power running on the playfield that's connected to the braid/base of all the feature lamp sockets has a short to a switch.

By my deductions, the strobe zero "ST0" white-red switch wire is shorted to a feature lamp somewhere. But in saying this you should be seeing the same behavior with the right spinner activating the right pop bumper.

Anyway, closely inspect all the playfield switches on the ST0, ST1 and I3 return wires for now, paying primary attention to the switches on ST0.

Quoted from cottonm4:

And If I am understanding you all correctly, I can remove my Big Game MPU with the sholar ROM and see what happens with the switches? Is this correct?

Yes you can install that Big Game MPU board/software in your Star Gazer, but make sure you disconnect the small J4 connector from the solenoid driver board. You don't want Big Game software activating the wrong coils for the wrong length of time.

#4996 2 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

By my deductions, the strobe zero "ST0" white-red switch wire is shorted to a feature lamp somewhere.

10 points to the first person that spots the problem. Hint look at the T-Nuts...
.

StarGazer_Short_To_6VDC.jpgStarGazer_Short_To_6VDC.jpg

#4998 2 years ago
Quoted from HoakyPoaky:

There's a T-nut directly touching the copper common strip by the LT spinner.

Ding ding ding!
That T-Nut is electrically connected to the spinners leaf switch through the whole spinner assembly.

#5008 2 years ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

Now, I just have to figure out why I have 3 dead switches on the ST1 string

Are all switches on those three "Ix" rows not working?
Note if the game senses any switches that are stuck closed it will ignore them until they open again, otherwise they could cause endless scoring.
Switch test mode is your friend here.

#5014 2 years ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

Anyway, I have 5 issues left to deal with.

Switch test mode.. Let the game tell you what it's seeing in response to all the switches. You may have some open circuits in the wiring but you also may have some shorted switches which switch test mode will tell you about where game play mode won't.

#5061 2 years ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

There is this parts catalog manual.

A scan of the Stern parts catalog is also on PinWiki:
https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Bally/Stern#Parts_Catalogs

#5067 2 years ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

So, now all I need to do is figure out these 2 sling shots. #15 and #16.

Please post some clear pictures of the slingshot switches including side on showing how they're stacked. Since both slingshot switches are showing as closed I suspect they've been incorrectly connected.

#5071 2 years ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

I would like to introduce you all to my family.

My favourite family
Glad you worked it out!

2 weeks later
#5170 2 years ago
Quoted from play_pinball:

I was under some belief there was a 7-digit rom upgrade for Galaxy. Was I dreaming? Nothing on Weebly's board, but I see a "pinmame bootleg" on ipdb. Is that able to be burned and used in a game?

The PinMAME ROMsets on IPDB are named so PinMAME can use them directly. There's otherwise no difference between them and the other ROMs. They will work on real hardware, i.e. the 7-digit bootleg is not specifically for PinMAME.

#5192 2 years ago
Quoted from play_pinball:

I’m still trying to figure out wtf is going on with my Quicksilver matrix short....
If I disconnect the switch matrix the coils work fine.

Which switch matrix connector(s) are you disconnecting to make it work?

If you've got a logic probe:
+ Reconnect the switch matrix.
+ Disconnect J5 from the solenoid driver board to disconnect the right drop target reset coil from activating (so it doesn't blow the fuse)
+ Probe pin 20 of the U2 decoder chip on the solenoid driver board around the time/event that usually causes the playfield fuse to blow and report the logic level.

#5194 2 years ago
Quoted from play_pinball:

Why would the PF fuse only blow when running QS roms though? I can run them all through coil test when running slochar's Big Game roms.

I don't have enough diagnostic details yet to answer that - my previous post is hopefully a start to get there.
May I suggest you open a tech thread on it since your problem is likely to be something specific to your machine.
A couple of pictures of the coil/switches in question won't hurt.
Anyway I've got to head off now so won't be able to respond til later.

1 month later
#5364 2 years ago
Quoted from EEE:

Could the following voltage differences on a new power supply board cause the mpu not to boot?

No.
Those voltages are in range.

1 month later
#5612 2 years ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

I get what you are saying Vec-tor but all of my Sterns use a 6 digit display for credit/ball in play action. But I will try it tomorrow and see what happens.

There was discussion about this in one of Pinitechs display threads a few years ago. Some games shipped with a 7-digit display in the 5th position.
Notice how the credit window is wider than the ball in play window? That way it can support both 6 and 7 digit displays. You will need to move the digit enable signals on the connector to get the digits to line up with 6-digit displays.
i.e. at the credit/ball in play display connector:
- Take the yellow wire out of pin 6
- Move the grey wire from pin 7 to pin 6
- Move the white wire from pin 8 to pin 7
- Put the yellow wire at pin 8 for safe keeping.

#5615 2 years ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

Problem resolved. I will say that the wire from pin 7 is green and not grey.

Cheers, and another Stern error in the schematics.

Found the original Pinitech discussion:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/credit-display-for-stern-star-gazer-6-digit-or-7-digit

1 month later
#5747 2 years ago
Quoted from SR230CC:

Can someone confirm that the Weebly mpu has the correct clock speed compared to the Alltek mpu for sound output?

The Weebly MPU board has jumpers to configure the clock speed. How have you got them set?

#5749 2 years ago

The SB300 sound board has it's own timer chip. I can't confirm but would be surprised if the CPU board clock speed had any effect.

Have you run the memory erase on the Alltek? Corrupt data in the NVRAM has been noted to cause different sounds on Meteor.
Also are you sure the issue isn't the ribbon cable or the sound board itself?

#5752 2 years ago
Quoted from SR230CC:

MPU can change sounds.

I see.. While the timer chip has its own dedicated onboard clock, it can be overridden by the CPU clock.

1 week later
#5780 2 years ago
Quoted from play_pinball:

SB-100 rev-1 & 2 sound painful.

Part of the problem is people like to fiddle with the sound board pots which throws the tones horribly out of tune with another. It's rather difficult to find youtube SB100 based game videos where the tones are in proper tune. It's made worse with how slow these games score compared to Trident/Hot Hand/Magic and speeding up the scoring code helps them feel more responsive and less painful.

Quoted from play_pinball:

will the games released with Rev-1 & 2 boards have the "correct" sounds (like Wild Fyre, Lectronamo, etc) or are all of them these more pleasant Rev-3 tones that came in games like Trident & Hot Hand?

The rev A SB100 board used in Lectronamo and Wild Fyre had the tones pitched high so the chime simulation tones were about the same frequency as real mechanical chimes. Personally I like the chime simulation.

Note: Lectronamo, Nugent, Wild Fyre and Dracula need DIP switch 23 set to ON when using any sound boards (factory or repro) that don't have the chime simulation otherwise they'll produce no sounds. If using a rev C1 sound board or @barakandl's repro, they will have the same bassier tones as delivered in Trident/Hot Hand/Magic.

4 weeks later
#5929 2 years ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

Stern transformers: The smaller 16B-3 vs. the larger 16-6
Maybe you will be able to see the minute differences in ball action; Or maybe not.

The difference in solenoid power looks pretty obvious to me.

#5941 2 years ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

So, if one could find a 50 volt stand alone transformer, could this be incorporated along side a smaller 16B-3 and substitute as the power source for the solenoids?

The solenoid voltage on these games is unfiltered DC. As a simple test, try a high current diode in series with the solenoid voltage to the playfield and put a capacitor on the other end to store energy.

Isn't DC solenoid power on Williams game of that era filtered?

Quoted from slochar:

I don't know squat about transformer design at all, I should probably look in my Art of Electronics book to see how they address this. I've never doubted that the -6 vs. the -3 has a difference

The primary and some secondary windings will be thicker so it can deliver more current and hence the larger physical size. Anyone feel like measuring the transformer winding gauges between the -3 and -6 just before the lugs to compare?

1 week later
#6018 2 years ago
Quoted from arolden:

Can anyone please confirm whether Magic utilises sound 5 on the sound board? All tones except 5 are working.

Yes, Magic utilises all six sounds. The fifth sound is the "add bonus" sound effect.

#6049 2 years ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

Here is my question for this difference: How can 2 windings that measure differently along the X-axis have the same measurements along the Y-axis?

The thickness of the metal E core is probably the same, hence the Y-axis is almost the same.

Quoted from cottonm4:

Per the Stern Electronics manuals, Meteor, Galaxy, and Ali all show the larger 16B-6 as being the transformer for these 3 pins. However, the transformer schematics list the 5 amp for the transformer F-4 circuit. This schematic anomaly is corrected the Big Game, the 4th MPU -200 pin.

It's dependent on the type and number of flipper coils. Meteor and Ali had standard spec 25-500/34-4500 flipper coils. The upper coil on Meteor has a resistor in series to reduce current surge and power.
Galaxy had higher power flipper coils but only two of them.
Big Game had a mixture of standard and higher power flipper coils but there are four of them so potential for high current surge when all four flippers activate at the same time.

I just picked up a Seawitch this week and it's been fitted with four standard 25-500/34-4500 flipper coils. I've replaced the 7A slow blow fuse with a fast blow as a slow blow seems like overfusing to me.

#6072 2 years ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

I thought Seawitch was 475 & 600 on the coils?

Sorry, by "standard 25-500/34-4500 flipper coils", I meant common generic flipper coils. And power wise they're perfectly fine on this game.

Quoted from cottonm4:

OK. I get that. But what is it on the larger 16B-6 transformer that puts out more juice for the coils than the 16B-3 puts out?

It will be thicker gauge core wire on both the primary and solenoid windings.

3 weeks later
#6148 2 years ago
Quoted from hisokajp:

has anyone replaced switch contact before and has recommendation on how to install them?

You could try what frunch does and solder them on the back of the leaf:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/building-re-building-leaf-switches

#6160 2 years ago
Quoted from djblouw:

My question is: can you drive two coils from the same transistor?

Yes, Bally did it on drop target banks with 6 or more targets: Someone installed a 27-2300 coil on your bank which is used on 5 drop target or less banks and it might not have been strong enough for that big bank so it might be the reason they doubled up the coils. The Nineball manual lists a 24-1600 coil for that assembly.

Drop_Target_Bank_Fathom.jpgDrop_Target_Bank_Fathom.jpg
Drop_Target_Bank_EightBallDeluxe.jpgDrop_Target_Bank_EightBallDeluxe.jpg

#6163 2 years ago
Quoted from hisokajp:

where the transistor for this "double coils" bank larger than the std one?

Nope. But I should say if you're thinking of doing this don't use the super strength 24-1600 coils Stern used for this 8 bank. Use two of the weaker coils (26-1900 or 27-2300)

The picture djblouw posted above shows a Stern 27-2300 coil and a Bally ??? coil (which is unlikely to be a super strength unit).

#6165 2 years ago
Quoted from emsrph:

Would there be any harm in leaving the large 24-1600 coil on the 8-bank that I converted to a 5-bank for my Cheetah?
Wouldn’t want to break targets or blow up the drive transistor. Thx

You won't blow the transistor. The Cheetah manual actually specifies a 24-1600 coil for the 5 bank drop target assembly so you should be ok.

#6168 2 years ago
Quoted from djblouw:

The Bally coil is a 24-1400

So what are you going to do since the assembly already has a Stern spec coil?
If you're staying with double coil, I would check your other Bally/Stern games to see if you can swap the 24-1400 out with a weaker drop target coil from another game.

#6170 2 years ago
Quoted from djblouw:

Will this create extra stress on the transistor?

Not really stress on the transistor, but you will likely prematurely blow the playfield fuse.
The lowest DC coil resistance this architecture uses on transistor driven coils is about 10.5 ohms and that's what the 24-1400 coils resistance is.

The 26-1900 coils are 22 ohms. Two in parallel equate to 11 ohms DC resistance
The 27-2300 coils are 32 ohms. Two in parallel equate to 16 ohms DC resistance.
Both of these setups are still in spec.
I would swap out the 24-1400 with one of the two coils mentioned from another game (preferably 5 bank if a game has a weaker coil) or buy a new coil or convert the bank back to single coil (I realise twin coils are better mechanically).

1 month later
#6274 2 years ago
Quoted from dddanielll:

Anyone have the correct switch map for Wild Fyre?

Check the five green spots in this picture - where there's switches in these positions they're likely to all be switch 19.

Wild Fyre (Stern 1978)_Sw19.jpgWild Fyre (Stern 1978)_Sw19.jpg

1 month later
#6441 2 years ago
Quoted from rvdv:

I have the following problem and hope someone can guide me to fix it :

Cosmic Princess!!

#6443 2 years ago
Quoted from Joydivision:

what caught my attention immediately was actually the red paint on the screws which indicates what Australian "Leisure & Allied" usually did.

I've seen this elsewhere on non-pinball products, the paint on the screws is used to stop them loosening from vibration, kinda like surface loctite.

I've had a code fix for Cosmic Princess for some years to fix the spinner scoring bug. I'll be releasing it very soon with some other early Stern updates after I finish up on Stingrays code.

#6446 2 years ago
Quoted from Joydivision:

Something that surprised me when I was looking at backglasses on Mayfair Amusement's website only earlier today was they had a Cosmic Princess glass available for $295.00

Whoa..
There's art on the left of that backglass picture that's flaked off so if the picture is the actual backglass for sale, it's rather used albeit rare.

#6460 2 years ago
Quoted from play_pinball:

So after looking at that under pf shot of Cosmic Princess, I was confused by the controlled 5-bank and I_P_D_B's info that it uses the same roms as Magic , which only has a 3-bank drop. https://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=3967

After watching a video, I'm 99.9% certain it uses Trident roms. Can anyone confidently confirm?

Magic and Cosmic Princess do use the same ROMs. Magic doubles the drop target switches on the two outer drop targets so they score 1,000 points while the centre drop target scores 500 points. That's how they got away with a 3-bank drop target on Magic.

Trident code is about 98% the same, the difference is that Magic awards climbing points on drop target completion. Trident doesn't but awards them at the saucer instead while Magics saucer awards collect bonus.

I have code updates ready to release for these three games. Might upload this weekend..

#6463 2 years ago
Quoted from play_pinball:

Curious what your updates to Trident will be. I love that game and I’m not terribly interested in the 2020 code update (though I absolutely appreciate what Dick is doing with those.

I'm in the same boat and am in awe of what Dick has done, it's amazing and very clever indeed! But modern rules/games aren't my thing.
I actually did the Trident update before BSOS 2020 came about, but just never got around to releasing it. Like the Stingray update I'm working on now (nearly finished) you'll need to modify the MPU board for dual 2732 EPROMs to run the updated Trident code.
The key features is has are:

01. Freeplay support.
02. Millions scoring using real 7-Digit displays or virtually with existing 6-Digit displays.
03. Bonus multiplier option up to 14X.
04. Fast bonus countdown once option by pre-multiplying the bonus 1k step against the bonus multiplier.
05. Saucer big scores option up to 65,000 points.
06. Flipper return lane big scores option up to 20,000 points and resettable on entry.
07. Disable the upper slingshots from advancing bonus option.
08. Extra ball kept option when the ball in play is tilted.
09. Colored standup target special options to be open ended and/or lit after completing two times rather than one time.
10. Drop Target special added options to light on the 1st or 4th completion of the bank, and/or then every second bank completion.
11. Drop Target option to disable the drop target releases (always requires player to hit all five drop targets).
12. Show the Highest Game to Date at the start of the last ball.
13. Record Highest Game Credits to Date in Freeplay Credit Reset mode.
14. Show *every* closed switch in switch test mode.
15. Improved test mode/audit navigation.

Quoted from bluespin:

I thought I read that Nugent uses Magic roms.

Nugent shares the same ROM with Lectronamo.
Dracula shares the same ROM with Wild Fyre
Stingray shares the same ROM with Pinball
Cosmic Princess shares the same ROM with Magic
Hot Hand has some unused switches programmed so they may have either decided not to wire them, or the ROMs may have possibly been to support a different layout/game. Though MPU-200 was around the corner..

1 week later
#6541 2 years ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

fluttering flipper blues.

Any chance the EOS switch screws are too long and are digging/cutting into the flipper coil?
Have you tried moving the hold wires where they attach to the lugs to see if they've broken off there? Can you clearly see that the wire coating has been removed where they're soldered to the lugs - from the picture it looks like the left lug has a coated wire on the lug.

#6556 2 years ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

I made a you tube movie.

We really needed the multi-meter in view to see what it was indicating and what setting you had it on.

#6560 2 years ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

Would it be the flipper relay on the SDB causing these problems or is it an SCR that has gone bad? Or something else.

Nope.
Your EOS switch was not opening at the end of stroke causing the flipper thrust winding to hold the flipper up for extended periods with sustained high current through the thrust winding. So she got hot.
When adjusting the EOS switch gap, push the plunger into the coil so it's at end of stroke exactly as it really operates, don't rotate the flipper bat or crank to get it to full stroke since it doesn't take slack/wear in the mech into consideration.

#6590 2 years ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

The correct answer is number 4. And I am sure I can think some others to add to the mix.

4? No way! Let's go with:
5) long covid.

1 week later
#6614 2 years ago
Quoted from BorgDog:

Homepin made a replacement Bally transformer that I think would work, but I don't see for sale anywhere at the moment.

Nitro has them in stock:

https://nitropinball.com/products/homepin-bally-a2-power-transformer-module-as-2877-1-inc-tx122-125-as-2518-pcb-mounting-bracket-w-screws

#6626 1 year ago
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:

Most Classic Stern rods have the cut for the retaining clip closer to the end of the rod while Gottlieb(s) have them higher up

This is the original shooter rod from one of my Sterns.

IMG_0004a.jpgIMG_0004a.jpg

3 weeks later
#6692 1 year ago

The primary purpose of the metal shield is to reduce radio interference coming out of the head. It was not intended as a ground source in the back box.
Why did they go to the expense of adding the metal shield (also to the top and sides) when they could have simply run braid wire to all the board mounts if grounding the boards was the intention..
The shield is grounded so it doesn't become an electrical hazard to operators/owners if a live wire accidentally touches it just like any other piece of electrical equipment with metal.

1 week later
#6767 1 year ago
Quoted from play_pinball:

I seriously don’t understand why the banded side to any wire would be the “correct” setup. It’s never that way in games I restore. The ONLY switches I’ve encountered where any wires connect to the banded side of the diode are the two spinners on Big Game.

What's happened is the diode has been moved onto the 'other side' of the switch. See below in red. There is nothing electrically wrong with this - it's just not the standard way everyone's used to. The diode is still electrically oriented in the same direction.

BigGame_SpinnerSwitchWiring.pngBigGame_SpinnerSwitchWiring.png

#6769 1 year ago
Quoted from play_pinball:

The ONLY switches I’ve encountered where any wires connect to the banded side of the diode are the two spinners on Big Game.

The reason this has been done is because one of the switch leafs is mechanically and electrically connected to the spinner and spinner frame.
Both spinner frames are screwed together on this game at the post between the spinners.
Wiring the spinners in the normal way would result in two switch return lines becoming shorted when both spinners are spinning and the spinner switches make contact at the same time. This can result in ghosted switch activations within the matrix.

Placing the diodes on the other side of these switches allows the switch return signals to be isolated from another in this dual spinner setup.

2 months later
#7008 1 year ago
#7010 1 year ago
Quoted from play_pinball:

I did re-cap the SB-300 and the sounds are not muffled or crackly in any way -- just LOUD.

Is the current pot original? Show us a picture of how it's wired and especially the numbers on it showing its value.

#7012 1 year ago
Quoted from play_pinball:

AFAIK it’s an original out of an F2K. It does progressively change the volume as you turn, but only from loud to loud as hell.

The numbers don't state the pots spec that I can tell.

To minimise the volume do you turn clockwise or anticlockwise?
Measure the resistance across the two outer lugs of the pot. Does it measure around 25k ohms?

#7016 1 year ago
Quoted from play_pinball:

Up = clockwise
Down = counterclockwise

With my multimeter set to 20k resistance, I get a reading of around 5.5.

5.5k is probably not enough range.
The pot in my Seawitch matches the picture cottonm4 posted. It measures 22.5k ohms full scale (outer lugs). Right now at comfortable levels the resistance between the two wires on the pot is at 6.5k ohms which you can't reach with your pot.

1 month later
#7249 1 year ago
Quoted from KJL:

2 Coin door is the most rusted of all the games I have had, are there any threads on options to make presentable. Probably not worth it as I love how battle worn the cabinet is but curious what I can do.

Also check @tractordoc's thread:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/classic-bally-stern-coin-doors-step-by-step-guide-to-restoration#post-4978415

1 week later
#7310 1 year ago
Quoted from Alan_L:

The Credit Button, switch #6, shows in Switch Test.

Did you resolve the stuck switch #06? If not disconnect J2 and J3 from the MPU board. Does it then complete the LED power on tests?
Was the U8 socket replaced in the corrosion cleanup?
Deal with any AMI chips as Joydivision mentioned first.

#7313 1 year ago
Quoted from Alan_L:

Now I'm up to six flashes. I have 43.3 VDC at TP5 on the P/S board. Searching further.

Measure the voltage on the left and right legs of resistor R113 (just below MPU J4). You can see where R113 is in the middle of your third picture.
The right leg of R113 should have 21.5VDC, the left leg should have 43VDC which comes via MPU J4 from the rectifier board J3.

#7315 1 year ago

43VDC which comes via MPU J4 from the rectifier board J3.

1 week later
#7343 1 year ago

The switch matrix is scanned 100 or 120 times per second based on the mains power frequency of your country.

So strobe #4 (column 4) gets switched to 5 volts. All eight rows are then read simultaneously. Any switches on that column that are closed will result in the respective row signal returning 5 volts. Open switches on that column return 0 volts.

The results for the switches on strobe #4 are stored in memory for later.
Strobe #4 (column 4) then gets deactivated and returns to 0 volts.

Strobe #3 (column 3) is now activated and raised to 5 volts. All eight rows are then read simultaneously. Any switches on that column that are closed will result in the respective row signal returning 5 volts. Open switches return 0 volts.

The results for the switches on strobe #3 are stored in memory for later.
Strobe #3 (column 3) then gets deactivated and returns to 0 volts.

Repeat for strobes #2, #1 and #0

The diodes on the switches are important for separating switches between strobe lines since the row signals are shared.

1 month later
#7520 1 year ago
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:

When I go into solenoid test 1 - 4 are unique sounds, 5 - 6 are nothing

Sounds at solenoid tests #5 and #6 will only play when you have the game set to "Computer" sounds rather than "Chime" sounds. Computer/Chime sounds are selected via DIP switch 23 on the MPU board. OFF for Chime sounds, ON for Computer sounds.

#7564 1 year ago

I believe on the Weebly it wasn't traced to otherwise reduce the support calls for intermittent reboots due to suspect cabinet slam switches.
I don't think it was a good idea to have the MPU reset signal run into the cabinet harness where it might pick up noise and trigger.

#7567 1 year ago
Quoted from play_pinball:

Well that makes me feel less crazy about the slam switch on my Star Gazer build.

Well, you better get crazy again because Star Gazer has the slam switch as part of the switch matrix - unrelated to this discussion where later games wired the slam switch directly to the MPU-200 boards reset circuitry.

#7579 1 year ago
Quoted from frenchmarky:

At least if it only got shorted to ground at the door it would simply reset the game, right?

Yep it would be in *permanent* reset, i.e. MPU board would be locked with the LED stuck on as barakandl mentioned.

4 weeks later
#7643 1 year ago
Quoted from hisokajp:

I just put a Big Game on location, set to 1 credit/2 coins for all 3 chutes though i am only using left and right ones. However if you put one quarter in the left and one quarter in the right it doesn't work... both quarters have to go in the same chute?

It appears to be a bug with coin chute #1, it counts coins independently from coin chutes #2 and #3 (which share the coin counter).
Wire coin chute #1 to become chute #2 or #3 (which ever isn't currently used) and it should work as you expect.

#7668 1 year ago
Quoted from barakandl:

Adding 150pf across u5 p11 and ground seems to fix the problem with some 4070 and / or 4562 chips. Data and clock timing issue.

Boy o' boy, who designed that circuit.. It relies on propagation delays within the 4070/4013 chips.
How about using the spare gate in U5 as a buffer to delay the output? might save a few cents on that capacitor.

[EDIT] Actually it probably would be better if the buffer was between the 4013 pin 13 output to U5 pin 13 input.

Stern_SB-300_U5_Mod.pngStern_SB-300_U5_Mod.png

2 weeks later
#7737 1 year ago
Quoted from barakandl:

It is, that got the fastest chip I've tried, a CD4070 manufactured by HGSemi, to work fine which is totally silent on white noise with out the delay. thanks!

Great!

Quoted from barakandl:

I wonder what happened to URL.

Real difficult to research that acronym in this internet age.
URL copied Pong back in the day for Allied Leisure. Total speculation but maybe Stern used URLs engineers to copy the Bally design? Sterns Pinball/Stingray ROMs have clear leftover code from Ballys Night Rider.

#7741 1 year ago
Quoted from bluespin:

Bally, Williams and Gottlieb had already transitioned to making solid state pins. Sam looked at each of the three manufacturers solid state designs and decided Bally has designed the best board set.

Stern released their first solid state game "Pinball" in September of 1977. Same month Williams released their first solid state "Hot Tip". Gottliebs first solid state "Cleopatra" came out later in December 1977.
So what time did Stern have to properly evaluate the Williams or Gottlieb design and then copy it?
Bally was the leader by a mile and Night Rider, their second production solid state game came out earlier in February 1977 giving Stern enough time to copy the architecture.
So where did the solid state expertise at Stern Electronics Inc come from..

#7750 1 year ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

Stern had rights to Williams HARDWARE since he actually purchased half of William's Electronics from Harry Williams.

What year did this specific purchase happen?
Are you talking/confusing about when Sam Stern bought 49% of Williams back in 1947, then the rest of Williams in 1959 but then sold it in 1964 to Seeburg?
Is there some other purchase where Sam/Gary Stern obtained access rights to Williams solid state hardware?

#7783 1 year ago
Quoted from misterhare:

She's busted already though. In the middle of a game the solenoids started firing weird. Now I just get this on boot up

Bad connection at either end of the Red-White wire coming from the MPU board at connector J4 pin 1 to the solenoid driver board at J4 pin 3.

1 week later
#7794 1 year ago
Quoted from hisokajp:

Clearly the wiring is good since it test fine during test mode and i change the LED light bulb for good measure but that didn't do much. Is it an issue with the Alltek repro light board? or a bug on the Alltek repro MPU software? weird...

This can happen when the wire is connected to the wrong location at the lamp driver board.
Lamp connector positions at the lamp driver board that aren't assigned for the game will still 'flash' during lamp test mode if a lamp is hooked up.

3 weeks later
#7887 1 year ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

Could this be a possible solution for classic Stern transformers?

The 43VDC solenoid supply in these games is rippling (unregulated/unfiltered) rectified DC that cycles from zero volts up to 60 volts peak then back down to zero volts. It repeats this at a frequency of 120Hz or 100Hz depending on the countries line frequency.

The DC voltage out of your adjustable power supply is 48 volts regulated, i.e. it constantly sits at 48VDC.

The Bally engineers were clever enough to activate and release coils (switch driver transistors on and off respectively) when the DC ripple voltage was near zero volts which was gentle on the transistor and prolonged their life.

The adjustable power-supply will cause the driver transistors to switch at 48VDC which will result in high switching currents.

The flippers are not transistor driven so doesn't affect them so much other than they may cause more phantom pop-bumper activations since the flippers will always switch at high current and cause noise in the switch matrix.

You must not disconnect the rectifier boards 43VDC "zero crossing" signal to the MPU board otherwise it will fail boot-up at the last LED flash.

It might work great, it might not so we await your test results short and long term.

Voltage_WaveformsAx2.pngVoltage_WaveformsAx2.png

#7895 1 year ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

And my question is: Why didn't Stern just go with #8 size holes as the are a little more robust than a teeny tiny #6.

FWIW, the PinballLife mechs use #8 screws.

Quoted from cottonm4:

It has been talked here several times about if there was a way to make a repair for this common oversize hole issue.

Quench's epoxy method will do a good job. I wish I could find his link.

Nice job, I like it!
When doing repairs I like to do it once.. Make them stronger so they don't have to be revisited and yours fits the bill.

Here's the epoxy method I used - from the Big Game club thread:

"Lately I've been doing this to blown out base plate threads and even on new flipper mech base plates for preventative maintenance.
Basically adding nyloc nuts to the bottom encased with epoxy."

FlipperBase_CoilStop_nuts.jpgFlipperBase_CoilStop_nuts.jpg

#7897 1 year ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

No one has mentioned this before. I cannot believe I am the first one to see this.

It was actually discussed many years ago in the tech threads.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/wanted-schematics-for-cosmic-princess-nine-ball

Back then I made a Nine Ball lamp driver board sheet using Lightnings layout as the basis. Here it is:

Lightning_to_Nineball_LampDriverBoard_GameOver-Tilt_WireColor_Fixed.pdfLightning_to_Nineball_LampDriverBoard_GameOver-Tilt_WireColor_Fixed.pdf

2 weeks later
#8072 1 year ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

I thought this was kind of interesting. 5 switches on the drop bank for Magic. I've not dug through the schematic just yet and since I know nothing of gameplay I can't even theorize "why", but I thought it was interesting.

Magic was designed together with Cosmic Princess which has five drop targets. Both games use exactly the same software. Since Magic only has three drop targets they doubled the switches on the two outer targets to simulate a total of five targets. And consequently the outer drop targets score 1,000 points while the centre drop target scores 500 points.

#8074 1 year ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

So, if either of those two bottom switches failed the drop bank simply wouldn't reset... right?

Correct.

Stern employed this software sharing between other games to reduce development cost/time (though the drop target banks were the same)
Pinball <---> Stingray
Lectronamo <---> Nugent
Wild Fyre <---> Dracula

#8115 1 year ago
Quoted from hisokajp:

i discovered something weird on my Seawtich, tilting makes you lose your earned extra ball? Was there such a thing on Stern classics?

Yes that's a common quirk with classic Sterns.

1 week later
#8156 1 year ago
Quoted from barakandl:

Something similar can happen on the SB100 which may stop you from being able to use the full range of the R2-TP3 test point. It may start to skip clocks at the extreme end of the test point and the square is intermittently twice or three times as long.

Hmm, the capacitor shouldn't be needed here. The flip-flops are just used as common frequency divide circuits. Have you tried another brand of 4013?
I presume it's only happening with the low frequency 10,000 point sound and not the high frequency 10 point sound? (the pot at R2 controls both).

#8159 1 year ago
Quoted from barakandl:

These boards are built with a TI CD4013BM. I dug out an older board built with an nexperia 4013 and it does not seem to do it.

Your waveform shows a mix of 166Hz and 83Hz. It's very low speed stuff so it's a pretty odd situation. I presume that's on TP3.

What's happening on U8 pin 11?

#8162 1 year ago
Quoted from wolftownjeff:

I think the wiring is wrong.

Wiring looks correct to me.
Give the new end of stroke switch a clean with something abrasive (thin flat file or sand paper).

#8164 1 year ago
Quoted from barakandl:

U8 pin11 looks OK when tp3 is inconsistently variable.

Very weird.. the signals look clean. The second flip flop is sometimes not dividing - just passing through?? Wonder if it's some batch issue with those TI 4013 chips?

#8181 1 year ago
Quoted from barakandl:

Now that I've studied up and tested a little more it seems to be a glitch with the 4013 chips.

It's a bit of a worry that buying genuine chips don't even work properly at only a few hundred Hz.

3 weeks later
#8375 1 year ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

One oddity is that when a single bulb is installed and flashing the duration on/off seems slightly different between the bulb in backbox and the bulb on playfield.

Any chance one of the lamps is connected to the G.I. supply bus instead of the feature lamp supply bus?
I can't imagine the bridge rectifier causing this.

#8474 1 year ago
Quoted from tatman9999:

What is a CA3081 ?

A CA3081 is a transistor array chip. Basically it has seven transistors in the one chip and that's it.

Quoted from tatman9999:

Not sure where that chip would be.

CA3081 are on the solenoid driver boards (there's three in total). Curious why you are mentioning this chip?

I can't quite tell from your pictures but are the gate coil lugs touching the metal frame?

With the machine OFF, how much resistance do you measure across both coils with your multi-meter?

#8489 1 year ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

To all Bally/Stern classic system and Bally 6803 system owners. The CA3081 transistor arrays
are getting old and a phenomena is happening where solenoid coils are "cooking" even tho
the coils are "not active".

The CA3081 failure is a base pin goes open circuit (measuring over 4.0V instead of 0.8V) and this condition causes the driver transistor downstream to turn on hard locking the respective coil.

Quoted from vec-tor:

I would isolate the two coils by having one High voltage contact relay
handle the activation..

It looks like that's how it's wired by the pictured relay with the orange-black wire on one of the contacts.

@tatman9999, what are the wire colors at the solenoid driver board on connectors J2 pin 8 and J5 pin 7 ? Because the manual/schematics aren't listing the wire color.
Also is the fuse failing the moment the gates switch on or when they are on for a bit?
Did you measure the resistance across the gate coils yet?

1 week later
#8559 11 months ago
Quoted from LOTR_breath:

Same thing with Stern Lightning.

Lightning doesn't release the balls on power-up though.

1 week later
#8699 11 months ago
Quoted from CaffeineSlug:

Having some issues I don't understand on a Magic I just put back together.

What happens when you disconnect both the J2 and J3 connectors off the MPU board? Does the player #3 display work ok?
The signal responsible for display #3 is also used for the lamps and switches. You possibly have a switch shorting to something on the playfield so removing J2 and J3 from the MPU board disconnects all switches.

#8733 11 months ago
Quoted from play_pinball:

Is this a good replacement for the GI relay in Ali and Galaxy?

Not if you're running incandescents. The originals would have been 10 amp relays. This is the model Ed was selling - see if you can find an alternate source with that part number.
https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=LB2-48DS

#8736 11 months ago
Quoted from play_pinball:

Would this one work?

Yes that one looks better. Not sure what the J in the part number means because the Omron website/datasheets don't specify.
Remember to connect both "COM" (Common) pins together and both "N.C." (Normally Closed) pins together so both switches inside the relay are sharing the G.I. current.

3 weeks later
#8806 10 months ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

What's up with the ends of these? Why are they flat like that?

Ignore their picture, those are old style reel crimps. The ones I got from Tayda a year ago are also reel type but are attached on the crimp end. Along the lines of these:

Crimp_2-54mm.pngCrimp_2-54mm.png

#8836 10 months ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

1) Drill the hole to 1/8" to allow the dowel to fit.
2) sand or scrape some of the dowel away so it will fit in the hole.

By now the hole is usually uneven and I generally prefer to drill so the new dowel plug fills the hole with more surface contact.

#8845 10 months ago
Quoted from play_pinball:

I assumed they were to reduce the ball speed in instances of the ball from flying through the trough and into the shooter lane again.

This happened often on my Seawitch which had the post missing and a ball from the upper left area coming down at speed draining between the flippers would fly back to the shooter lane through the trough. After I installed a post, the problem hasn't happened since.

1 week later
#8901 9 months ago
Quoted from trecemaneras:

Is it normal to have slightly different sizes of flipper shoe in a game? Or is this probably a case of someone swapping in whatever part they had on hand when something broke?

The Stern MPU200 games with second gen flipper assemblies had a slightly narrower bat then MPU100 and Bally games. Someone likely fitted a standard Bally bat on your shoe that's loose.

#8907 9 months ago
Quoted from mikeflan:

Is there really that noticeable of a difference with the bats?

I didn't know there was a difference until I saw slochar mention it and so I measured them for comparison and he was right.

#8994 9 months ago
Quoted from piccolohl:

What are the wire colors for a4j4 in wild fyre? Can't find it in any schematics

While the wire colors are not listed on the MPU board schematic or wiring diagram pages, they are listed on the controller boards source/destination pages of the wires. So:

MPU_J4.pngMPU_J4.png

#9008 9 months ago
Quoted from piccolohl:

what about the sound board? j2's 12v. So i did continuity from a4-j4-12 to a3-j3-11, and got nothing(which would explain the lack of 12v on the mpu) but i noticed there were a couple other red green wires next to it that werent in any connector(the person who tried to work on it before me must not have done those) and one of them had continutiy back to a3-j3-11, so my guess is that wiring got messed up because theyre the same color, but i want to figure out what the one i had in the connector goes back to and the sound board isnt in the wiring diagram either (or that theres not some daisy chaining i dont know about in there)

If I remember correctly, A3J3-11 goes to the sound board then gets daisy chained to the MPU board at A4J4-12. The 0.156" connectors on the sound board allows you to double wire, whereas it's not possible on the 0.100" connectors at the MPU board.

[Edit] just found this picture of the SB100 sound board power connector:

SB100_J2.jpgSB100_J2.jpg

1 month later
#9297 8 months ago
Quoted from ArcadeRaid:

While I have you all here reading, anything else I should watch out for besides the switch?

The solenoid fuse on the rectifier board probably should have blown. What value and type fuse do you have at fuse F4 on the rectifier board?
I agree with @slochar, the End Of Stroke switch not opening when the flipper engaged was likely the cause of the meltdown. That switch opens to reduce power on the flipper coil to prevent it burning.

#9302 8 months ago
Quoted from Ollulanus:

Also, you should check the associated transistor on the driver board. If you had it wired wrong to begin with as it sounds like, you most likely toasted the Darlington that runs that flipper too. I had a real fun time with my Seawitch swap after I molexed one backwards :p

These games don't have transistors that drive the flipper coils. ArcadeRaid you haven't toasted any transistors.

Quoted from ArcadeRaid:

It had a 7amp in it and that blew for sure when I had the coil wired backwards. I replaced with another 7 amp and re-wired the coil. That one did not blow when it got toasty.

Stern changed the solenoid fuse from 5 amp fast blow to 7 amp slow-blow in the early 80's irrespective if the game had 2, 3, or 4 flippers.
I personally would be using a lower amperage fuse in two flipper games. It might have saved you burning the coil. I have either a 5 amp or 6 amp (can't remember) fast blow fuse in my Seawitch which has four flippers.

#9312 8 months ago
Quoted from play_pinball:

anyone have a tip on repairing this coil stop

Drill a hole deep enough to put some thread in it. Use a brass screw and brass washer to put it back in place. Use some high strength glue so it never comes apart. That's what I've done.

#9313 8 months ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

My F2K manual shows a 7 amp fuse for the F4 slot.

Dragonfist calls for 7 amp fuse in F4

I trust Bally engineers. Bally updated the fuse to 6amp *Fast-Blow* only in games with four flippers. Stern changing to Slow-Blow couldn't have done any favors to the bridge rectifier it was supposed to protect. Unless you find otherwise, using a Fast-Blow instead of Slow-Blow and amperage rating depending on the number of flippers is probably a wiser safety choice.

#9319 8 months ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

I had another look at my Dragonfist manual. F2, F4 and F6 all call for slo-blo fuses. But after thinking on it a bit, other than the flippers, why would slo-blo fuses even be needed? They seem rather risky; I would rather a fuse blow fast and lessen the chance of burning up the rectifier board.

Ok, I checked my Seawitch and it had a 7amp Fast-Blow, not 5 or 6amp and I previously thought. I put in a 6amp Fast-Blow and repeatedly hit the flippers fast. The fuse eventually started glowing after 15 or so flips then it blew as I kept flipping. The 7amp Fast-Blow fuse then went back in and under the same test it never glowed. So in my Seawitch with four flippers, a 7amp Fast-Blow fuse is probably the sweet spot. Having said that I'll likely put a 6amp fuse in it since the test I ran is not real case in my home use game play. If I had 3 year olds visiting and smashing the flipper buttons then I'd probably take the operators approach.
My Seawitch has standard 25-500 flipper coils. I know you like ballistic flippers with your 25-450 coils so you might find different fuse requirements.
EOS switch gaps and stacked switches for the secondary flippers will also play a part. As BigAl56 always says, they should be "break before make".
I set my EOS switch gaps aggressively to 1/16".

Revisiting Bally, they changed the high voltage F2 0.75A fuse from Slow-Blow to Fast-Blow in late '78 meanwhile Stern never did. There is no reason for this fuse to be Slow-Blow.
F6 on the rectifier board is required to be Slow-Blow because of the inductive load of the transformer.

1 week later
#9366 8 months ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

There is a real nice hickey in front of the right sling due to this Bally sling kicker.

That's the reason most Ballys of that era have half moon mylar in front of the slingshots.

2 weeks later
#9459 7 months ago
Quoted from Gunnut40:

It is not getting the 7th flash on the mpu. The the big brown resistor on the rectifier board is getting hot as hell. Should I replace it? Maybe the bridge has gone bad? Any advice would be good.

That resistor dissipates a lot of heat so will get hot. It's also telling you that the solenoid voltage is present which is what the 7th LED flash tests for so likely you have a connector issue between the rectifier board J3 pin 12 and MPU board connector J4 pin 15. Also check the 2k ohm resistor on the MPU board at R113 (next to J4). This is what MPU J4 pin 15 feeds into and that resistor does sometimes burn out causing the 7th LED flash failure.
You should be measuring half the solenoid voltage (about 21.5V) at MPU board test point TP3.

#9473 7 months ago
Quoted from Gunnut40:

TP3 on the mpu is reading 5.3v.

It's low. Did you measure the resistance of R113 on the MPU board as I suggested?

Quoted from Gunnut40:

I tested the rectifier board all were good but TP1 it was reading 2.3v.

Your BR1 bridge rectifier might be faulty and will cause the feature/switched/controlled lamps to be dim.
This will not be the reason the MPU board is failing the 43V test though.

#9491 7 months ago
Quoted from Gunnut40:

I got confused getting 22.3volts on TP3 on the mpu board. R113 is reading 1.11 ohms on the 20k setting.

22.3V at TP3 on the MPU board is good and should be passing the last LED flash.
There's an error on that R113 resistance reading. If true, TP3 would be reading 44V.. Maybe your meter is faulty or the method wasn't right. Nevertheless TP3 voltage downstream from R113 is in spec.
Might be an idea to post a video of the whole MPU LED flicker/flash sequence on power up if you can.

#9493 7 months ago
Quoted from Gunnut40:

I just watched a video where you helped a Aussie fix his super sonic.

Got a link? I'm curious

Quoted from Gunnut40:

It would start a game at one point. The ball would not come out of the kick out hole and the advance 300 switches would not register. Q4 On the power driver board?

Q4 is for the outhole coil. But firstly are other playfield coils working, i.e. is it a single coil not working or many?

Quoted from Gunnut40:

Not sure why the advance switches are not working still have to look into that. The game now boots in attract mode but will not start a game. Probably me taking out the boards and reflowing the pins.
I’m learning to read schematics pretty decent now.

Open up the playfield schematic and look at the switch matrix. Determine if switches in a row or column aren't working.

BTW1: if switches stopped working after you reflowed board pin-headers then you're likely looking at connector issues.

BTW2: your issues have gone beyond a generic request so it's time to open up a tech support thread in the early tech sub-forum.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/forum/tech-early-80s-solid-state

4 weeks later
#9725 6 months ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

Lightning stinks with original code.

I for one really enjoy my Lightning with original code..

2 weeks later
#9841 5 months ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

Does any body know if the Weebly MPU for Nine Ball comes with the corrected ROMs?

The latest Nineball ROM at @slochar's downloads is version 21 (26-Nov-2021) and version 21 is listed in @barakandl's MPU board game list at item 138.

#9859 5 months ago
Quoted from Ollulanus:

Coil fires if I jump the control lug to ground too. So, seems like the wiring and coil must be fine? Hard thinking of a board issue that would come and go like this though.

Sounds like an issue on the solenoid driver board. On the very odd occasion the series diode for the driver transistor can go intermittently lazy and not conduct.

Grab your jumper wire and hook one end to test point TP6 on the solenoid driver board. Very *briefly* touch the other end on the banded side of diode CR7 on the solenoid driver board. If the coil activates it tells you the Q7 driver transistor is ok.
Disconnect the jumper wire from TP6 and hook one end to ground.
Carefully touch the other end onto pin 10 of the U1 chip on the solenoid driver board. If nothing happens pull out your multi-meter and set it to DC voltage. Connect the black meter probe to ground somewhere.
Measure the voltage with the red meter probe on each side of diode CR7 when you ground pin 10 of U1. The voltages readings on diode CR7 should be in line with the "On" state row listed below:

SDB_Coil_Drive_Voltages_Q7.pngSDB_Coil_Drive_Voltages_Q7.png

#9936 5 months ago
Quoted from Ollulanus:

Diode wasn't reading what you list, but was only off by a little...

Care to share what voltages readings you were getting to understand how far out of spec they were?

Quoted from Ollulanus:

It's a fun little layout when it's working!

I grew up on Stern MPU100 games and didn't get to experience Sterns past Galaxy because newer Sterns were no longer routed in my area.
So I'm probably one of the few here that has a soft spot for Stern MPU100 games.

#9944 5 months ago
Quoted from Ollulanus:

Were those values based on testing, or do you have a formula for calculating what those values should be? I like math :p

Both. They're measurements from a game of mine, plus they roughly align with the component functions.

The voltage across a conducting silicon junction is said to be about 0.6 volts.
When you set your multi-meter in diode mode to test diodes, with the right meter lead polarity the meter tells you the voltage that the diode conducts at (at low current) usually somewhere between 0.45 to 0.75 volts depending on the diode.

So looking at the CR7 diode, you can see the difference in the "On" row when CR7 has current flowing through it. 2.1V - 1.4V = 0.7V which is thereabouts.

The driver transistor at Q7 is a "darlington" transistor which is two transistors in one. The feature of darlingtons is they can provide high current gain which is required here to switch the coils on. Unfortunately Bally didn't illustrate the driver transistors as darlingtons, while Williams did on their schematics. The below diagram illustrates what's really in the darlington transistor - based on the flipper relay part of the SDB circuit but it's pretty much the same as the playfield coil drives.

The voltage drop in each transistor part of the darlington between base and emitter points is about 0.6V each. So overall across both internal transistors of the darlington it's about 1.2V - the base leg of transistor Q7 is connected to the banded leg of diode CR7 where I measured 1.4V in my game - again it's thereabouts. The measured voltage is a little higher because the transistor is driven hard to be able to deliver the current required to activate the coil fast.

SDB_Coil_Drive_Voltages_Q7.pngSDB_Coil_Drive_Voltages_Q7.png

SDB_Flipper_Schem_compare.pngSDB_Flipper_Schem_compare.png

1 week later
#10057 5 months ago
Quoted from play_pinball:

I refuse to accept the old adage this used the same roms as Magic.

Those three games are all the same family, but I can guarantee Cosmic Princess uses the same ROMs as Magic. Trident is about 98% the same code (well factory version A of the ROMs is).
The difference between Trident and Magic/Cosmic Princess is how the saucer scores and the scoring when completing the drop target bank. Any other difference you notice with items added/deleted on the playfield are still in the code. Code wise, pop bumpers and slingshots are the same thing.

On entering the saucer, Magic/Cosmic Princess collects the bonus, while Trident scores based on how many times the drop targets have been competed is the giveaway difference.

What did you think of Cosmic Princess with respect to Magic and Trident?

#10059 5 months ago

#cosmic-Princess has a spinner scoring bug: the playfield had the yellow and orange switch/lamps wired in reverse.
So, if you make the upper orange 5 lane, the orange 400 point lights on the right spinner however the 400 points are instead awarded on the left spinner.
Same when you make the upper yellow 2 lane, the yellow 400 point lights on the left spinner however the 400 points are instead awarded on the right spinner.

#10075 5 months ago
Quoted from play_pinball:

Wider shot of the transformer board for y’all

My Cosmic Princess has a 16B-3 transformer. A -6 would seem like overkill.

Quoted from play_pinball:

Well the spinners were pretty badly set up so I hadn’t noticed.

Well, that certainly makes it more challenging

Quoted from play_pinball:

Fwiw, that’s where the speaker is on Hot Hand too.

My Hot Hand has the speaker in the old internal position. It also has the older pin style lockdown bar. It's an ex German game so likely an early production machine.

#10083 5 months ago
Quoted from billsfanmd:

Question is why is the original Stern board not soldered into the E7 hole with the arrow like all the others. Although I guess the triangle arrow could be pointing correct way. Hard to tell

Ignore that little triangle. There are two E7 points on that copper trace, your wire is soldered in the other point. It makes no difference.
Technically the two E7 points are there for two wires running in parallel from the transformer. There is a lot of current on that G.I circuit as you can see by the heat stress on the wide trace to the F5 fuse. Stern cheaped out and only installed one wire. Bally stayed with two wires.

#10091 5 months ago
Quoted from billsfanmd:

Thx Quench. One last question I saw a guy do this repair on Youtube. He mentioned that after completing all the soldering. he disconnected all connectors in the back box just in case he made any mistakes. Not sure if that makes sense to plug game in and maybe check test points before powering off and reconnecting everything

It doesn't hurt to be on the safe side.
Just plug the J2 connector on the rectifier board, this will allow line power to the transformer. Leave J1 and J3 disconnected.
You can now measure all the voltages on the test points of the rectifier board to see if you're in good starting shape.

If the rectifier board voltages are good, then power off and install J1 and J3. Note your original J1 was 8 pins wide, the new board is 9 pins wide. Make sure the wires/plug are in the correct position.

BTW, I don't see that pin 1 is marked on the new boards connectors which is a bad oversight.

Below, wire colors in large font are thick wires:

RectifierBoard_Connectors9_SternM200.pngRectifierBoard_Connectors9_SternM200.png

#10126 5 months ago
Quoted from sullivcd40:

I’m trying to determine whether a spare Big Game mpu board will work in my Nine Ball.

What kind of test are you hoping to achieve?
If you just want to know if the Big Game board boots then put it into your Nine Ball as is with the Big Game ROMs but disconnect the J4 connector from the solenoid driver board to prevent wrong solenoids being activated due to Big Games 'personality'.

#10167 4 months ago
Quoted from billsfanmd:

So just curious where it failed.

Most likely battery corrosion around the U8 5101 RAM chip.

#10182 4 months ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

If you are going to be painting your coin door with hammertone paint. you should consider getting the non-stainless bolts.

You should consider using polished stainless steel carriage bolts to accessorise the chrome coin entry bezel rather than matching the hammertone door

1 week later
#10259 4 months ago
Quoted from sandro:

I picked up a Stern Meteor project pin. It’s mostly all there, but there isn’t any channel along the back edge of the glass. It appears that the head/neck are pressing directly down on the edge of the glass.

There is no back channel piece.
The neck is loose in the cabinet and that needs to be addressed.

1 week later
#10290 4 months ago
Quoted from play_pinball:

Pretty sure this connector universally the same across classic Stern games, right?

Thanks for the pic. Hope the below matches:

SDB_J3_Wire_Colors_Stern.pngSDB_J3_Wire_Colors_Stern.png

#10292 4 months ago
Quoted from DaveTheTrain:

What blew the regulator?

The LM317AHVT regulator used on the Rottendog solenoid driver board for the high voltage regulation has a maximum input to output voltage differential spec of 60 volts.
The output is configured for about 182.5 volts on these boards. It is not unusual that the input can be 240 volts or higher. It's close too and sometimes exceeds spec for the part.
Also consider that on power-up the input goes to 240 volts while the output starts at zero and rises. This is split seconds in time but repeatedly beating the spec leads to a premature failure.
This part wasn't really designed for such a high voltage application.
There have been a few tech threads about this. G-P-E has also discussed it and has sold lots of those regulators due to it's failure in this circuit. He has a note on his old website about it:
https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/Information.asp?region=136

Do the rudimentary check of the pin header soldering on the displays. A suspect solder joint on the high voltage pin/ground doesn't help the situation.

#10305 4 months ago
Quoted from splattii:

The first is the credit button, it's registering as Switch 14 which according to the manual is unassigned, when it should be registering as Switch 6.

You probably have the wrong switch strobe wire connected to the start button. The start button switch strobe wire should be a red-yellow wire. If you have the red-green wire connected instead to the start switch it will register as switch 14.

Quoted from splattii:

I only have 2 coin slots, the right is registering to right, but the left is registering to centre and not left. Is this correct or does it matter?

When only two coin slots were fitted, the slots were wired to give the maximum credit/coin options by the MPU board DIP switches. MPU switches 1-5 control the centre slot (where your left is wired), MPU switches 9-13 control the right slot and these give 32 different options per slot. If you wire the left coin slot for true left, the MPU board only has one DIP switch controlling coin/credits for it (switch 16) so it's a very limited option. Leave it as is for most flexibility.

Quoted from splattii:

but after adding a second coin something goes wrong and it starts looping and adding endless coins even though the switch doesn't seem stuck.

Check the MPU board coin/credit switches for that coin chute, you likely have it set to 15 credits on the second coin drop.

Quoted from splattii:

I was wondering, is there a way to determine which pin on the boards is assigned to switch 14?

The game has a "switch matrix" to read switches, the switches do not have individual separate control signals at the MPU board.

Below are the playfield and cabinet / coin door schematics showing where the switch numbers live (in red) in the matrix. Overlay the two diagrams for the switch numbers. Both diagrams are shown because the playfield uses different wire colors to the cabinet / coin door for the same signals.

Cabinet_switches.pngCabinet_switches.png
Playfield_switches.pngPlayfield_switches.png

1 month later
#10445 82 days ago
Quoted from LOTR_breath:

Not my game but asking for a friend. Stern Galaxy. Game plays and scores fine, but the ball in play digits are strange. Instead of 1,2,3 it displays 1,0,1. I think the owner said it's not the display. Any ideas on what could cause this?

If someone's already swapped the display and the issue remains, then the display is not receiving the signal on pin 18 of the connector.

2 weeks later
#10495 66 days ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

What is probably wrong is that Stern did not drill the ball guide holes in the right place. Stern's quality of assembly, or lack thereof has been talked about a few times.

Boy, it looks to me like someone at Stern made a boo boo with the installed position of the wireforms with respect to the flippers.

1 week later
#10542 58 days ago
Quoted from DaveTheTrain:

One of the segments is always on, but not properly. It still fully lights when needed but there's often this glowing bit

Swap the segment drive transistor with another and see if it follows the transistor. Otherwise try replacing the 4543 decoder chip.

2 weeks later
#10609 40 days ago
Quoted from splattii:

Test Points 2 and 3 are both giving me 113 which is odd and wrong. What have I most likely done?

If I took a wild guess you got the wires for rectifier board points E5 and E11 crossed over. But we need pictures..

#10613 40 days ago
Quoted from splattii:

I think E12 and E6 might be reversed.

Yes from the pictures it looks like those are reversed, they happen to be the other side of the windings I originally thought.
White-Black should be at E12, White-Green should be at E6.

1 week later
#10669 28 days ago
Quoted from northvibe:

Getting a Stern Magic up and going, it has the barakandl MPU, otherwise original.
When it boots up, p1-4 show 00 and the credits show 10

You're running my Magic code.

On power up if the credits are zero in freeplay mode, the code will auto stuff a value in there and this value is configurable between 0 and 15 (10 is the default). It's the last option in the software settings at the end of the audits.

In freeplay mode there is an option to do the typical subtract one credit per player when you start. Or it can be optioned to clear the credit display so it's blank when you start a new game. Any credits you earn then get displayed normally. In freeplay you will never see the number zero in the credit display. I personally use this option because sometimes I like to see how many credits I can earn in a game - this value is even shown in the credit display as a 'highest credits to date" when the highest scores are shown.

On barakandl web site scroll down to the "Magic 2021-10-30" custom ROM document for details about configuration and other enhancements.
https://nvram.weebly.com/custom-rom-info.html

Any questions, just ask.

#10671 27 days ago
Quoted from northvibe:

So turn off dip 20 and it should be fine?

If you just want the credit display disabled, that will do it.

#10676 21 days ago
Quoted from emsrph:

This is the version SDB I’m using (Rev. C). Should I do both, snip out R49 and jumper R50?

Here is some homework for you on how to calculate the output voltage. Note the specification for uA78H05 5V voltage regulator is that its output can be between 4.85V and 5.25V depending on the characteristics of your part. The formula assumes a 5.0V part.

Note, Stern and Bally use a different resistor value for R50 - hence Stern solenoid driver boards output a slightly higher voltage on the 5V supply rail.

LM323_Voltage_Adjust (resized).pngLM323_Voltage_Adjust (resized).png
uA78H05_Voltage_Spec (resized).pnguA78H05_Voltage_Spec (resized).png

#10678 21 days ago

Now you can measure the actual voltage output of your specific uA78H05, black meter probe on the regulators metal case, red meter probe on test point TP1 on the SDB. Sometimes resistors R49 / R50 can be a little out of spec which slightly affects the boards output voltage.

#10687 20 days ago
Quoted from emsrph:

Last question (on this)- should TP1 and TP3 be connected together or not necessary?

I wouldn't say they 'should' be. Installing that jumper is about providing redundancy to mask a potential connector issue with SDB J3. I presume you have rebuilt this connector as it's for a Dragonfist scratch build? Anyway adding the jumper doesn't hurt.

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