Ali
Stern Electronics, 1980
Big Game
Stern Electronics, 1980
Catacomb
Stern Electronics, 1981
Cheetah
Stern Electronics, 1980
Cosmic Princess
Stern Electronics, 1979
Dracula
Stern Electronics, 1979
Dragonfist
Stern Electronics, 1981
Flight 2000
Stern Electronics, 1980You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider Gott_Lieb.
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Quoted from chubtoad13:Can any Stingray owners confirm that this 10,000 pt light is supposed to be tied to the GI?
Or better yet, point me in the direction of a schematic? IPDB doesn’t seem to have it for this game.
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https://www.ipdb.org/files/2377/Stern_1977_Stingray_Manual.pdf
Quoted from jkashani:Can anyone tell me the color match for the coin door color early sterns? I believe that the legs are painted the same color. The pic is of mine repainted with what I believe to be a close color match.
Thank You
[quoted image]
Rustoleum Hammertone Gray
Jim
I disagree with what Chris stated in the PW, where it is not worth it. I've done it several times, and prefer to always use less components when there has been battery damage. Plus, you no longer need +12v in the reset section and you can remove that toaster oven of a resistor, R11, which commonly fails. Here's a pic of how I do it. This is on an MPU-200.
Jim
MPU-200_Done (resized).JPGQuoted from Gott_Lieb:I disagree with what Chris stated in the PW, where it is not worth it. I've done it several times, and prefer to always use less components when there has been battery damage. Plus, you no longer need +12v in the reset section and you can remove that toaster oven of a resistor, R11, which commonly fails. Here's a pic of how I do it. This is on an MPU-200.
Jim
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Oh, and if you do it this way, I HIGHLY RECOMMEND that you remove TP2, so you don't accidentally power it with +12v on the bench. That TP I believe is tied to the +5v when this is all said and done. Due to this risk, I did not want to post this method on the PW for fear of people blowing up their boards. So, PROCEED WITH CAUTION when doing it this way.
Jim
Quoted from dothedoo:I totally agree with Jim. The Dallas reset generator is the only way I do it now and would never go back to the factory circuit.
My notes say R11 is needed, so Jim obviously does this a different way, but here's what's needed in my method:
R11 82ohm 1W resistor
CR7 1N4148 diode
CR5 1N4148 diode
R12 270 ohm 1/4W resistor
C13 .01 disc cap
^^^ These are components in the original circuit that you will need to replace if damaged by corrosion or keep if converting an undamaged board (where the reset circuit has failed, but there is no corrosion.)
Also needed:
Dallas reset generator (in Q5 location, more info below)
1K 1/4W resistor
==================================================================================
If you're converting an undamaged board, you only need to remove the following components:
R1
R138
R139
R140
Q5
To install the Dallas reset generator:
Run a jumper between the bottom leg of R138 and the top leg of R139 (this can be seen in Jim's pic)
Run the 1K 1/4W resistor from right hole of R140 to the top hole of Q5
That's it -- really simple -- remove 5 components, install a jumper and 2 new components and you're done.
PinWiki says to use a Dallas 1811 reset generator, but you can use others as well. I'm using a Dallas 1233 in my conversions because I got a great deal on 50 of them on ebay.
The difference on these chips is the voltage required to generate a reset, the length of time allowed for the power to stabilize, and the pinout of the chip. The 1811 gives the power supply a little more time to stabilize than the stock Q1, Q5 circuit and the 1233 gives even more time than the 1811, I believe. We're talking a difference of a couple hundred nano seconds here, so you'll never notice the difference when you boot the game.
Here are the pinouts of Q5, so that you can orient whichever chip you decide to use correctly:
Top hole = Reset
Left hole = GND
Right hole = Vcc
I failed to mention that I use a Microchip reset generator, not a Dallas. We stock all types of configurations for WMS 3-7, 9, 11, 1st gen. Ni-Wumpf, GTB Sys80/A/B, DE, and classic Bally / Stern. Judging by R2's value in my pic (4.7k), and Bill's pinout above, I'm assuming that I used an MCP120-460GI/TO here. If you can get a hold of an MCP130-460GI/TO (Ed @ GPE does not stock these), you would not need the extra pull up resistor at R2.
IIRC, a lot of the original components can stay in on a non-roached board, but I primarily end up with battery puked MPU-200s more times than not.
Jim
Quoted from semicolin:Both are obsolete, but replacements are available for very little expense:
U1, U3, U4: CA3081 transistor array:
Assemble your own replacement: https://nvram.weebly.com/transistors-and-transistor-kits.html
Get it from Marco while supplies last: https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/CA3081
U2: 74154 decoder:
Marco: https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/74154
Great Plains: https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=74HCT154
Jameco: https://www.jameco.com/z/74LS154-Major-Brands-4-TO-16-LINE-DECODER-DEMULTIPLEXER-DIP-24_46738.html
Don't forget the 2 salty 2N3440s too!
Quoted from Ronnie1114:Hey guys, quick question here. I have a project dolly parton that has a acid damaged mpu. I have a nice and clean stern MPU-200 that I have laying around and I was hoping to use in for that project. My main question is if this will work if I jumper it right and put the correct roms in? Thanks for any suggestions!
It will work, but my motto has always been not to waste a -200 in a Bally. There are too many Bally boards that are floating around.
Jim
Quoted from dothedoo:Yes someone mentioned removing one side, can't remember which, but they loved the way it changed the game.
I would assume the right gate more so than the left one. That long journey from the gate to the center hole in the upper PF felt painstakingly long to me.
Quoted from WeatherbyMAG:Next Victim after Dracula is done.....
Just started cleaning it up tonight with magic eraser to see what I have to work with......
[quoted image]
Hey!!! I know that playfield! Glad to see it get used after all of these years. http://www.papinball.com/meteor/before/index.html
Quoted from Mitch:Can someone post a pic of there j1 connector on their quicksilver rectifier board. Need to see where the wires go.
This may help in the future - http://www.jtamusements.com/meteor_rec_board.html (from Meteor)
Jim
pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).pngQuoted from Mitch:Are all classic sterns rectifier boards wired the same way.
For the most part, AFAIK. I've used that as a guide for all of the rectifier boards that I've rebuilt / repinned, including Nine Ball, Gamatron, Flight 2000 (2x), Seawitch (2x), Galaxy, Lightning, and Freefall.
Jim
Quoted from Thrillhouse:Like @8bitrobo said part of the install kit comes with precut shims to level the drop targets to prevent balls from getting hung up. The install kit also has a flipper gapping tool, flipper washers, nitrile gloves and a plastic razor to help remove the protective film.
I actually have protectors available for Meteor, Stars, Big Game, Quicksilver, Star Gazer and SeaWitch. You can find them here - https://beehivepinball.bigcartel.com/product/playshield-playfield-protector[quoted image]
How does a drop target shim / spacer work on Stars? The drop target switches are on the bottom, not the back.
Jim
Quoted from chuckwurt:Anyone know if we can get tombstones drop targets anywhere? I need one with a star on it, but I’ll settle for anything if it’s a tombstone. Will the Bally ones that PBR have work in Stars?
No, Bally drops will not work in Stern games. SY @ PBR suggests buying the standard Stern drops that he has, and cutting off the tops. Never tried it, as I keep used Chiclets for all of my Stern games.
Jim
Quoted from cottonm4:Well, you need to know how to do this, anyway
Look at the bracket that holds the drop targets in position. On the Stern unit the bracket is positioned so the target land is down low and hidden from view. On the Bally assembly, the bracket is positioned so the land is all the way to the top.
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If you want to use Bally target in a Stern assembly all you have to do is turn that bracket over.
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I could fix this so I could keep the one Bally target and the two Stern targets by filing off the extension that Stern added onto the landing area.
The only difference between the two assemblies is how that bracket locates. You can mix Bally and Stern targets in the the Stern assembly and you can also mix them up in the Bally assembly by making a minor mod to the Stern targets.
EDIT: This pic got deleted. It shows the difference between the targets.
[quoted image]
Pretty cool find! However, I would bet that Stern made theirs that way for one important reason (outside of patent infringement) - bricking! Bally drop targets brick a lot more than Sterns.
Quoted from dothedoo:One word: Sweepability
I think that was a side effect that only the late, great Steve Kirk knew about. 
Quoted from cottonm4:Cool beans !!
Plastic quarters for your coin door.
I don't know what else to call what I am going to show you.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
As you Stern lovers are aware, there is no Free Play. So you either set your pin to award a game at 10,000 points, or you open the coin door and manipulate the wire on the coin switch, or you attach a door bell button to your cabinet, or you solder on a push button switch and leave it swinging by the wiring inside the coin door, or you keep a pocket full of quarters handy.
None of the above counts as plug-n-play. There is always something you have to contend with to add credits to your classic Stern. I call it a hassle-factor.
This morning I thought of something that might work better than all of the above. This afternoon I got it done. Up and running. I think it is pretty cool. A no-hassle way to add credits to your classic Stern.
Pics tell the story.
You need a mini-micro switch. The momentary type with a lever actuated push button. You need an alligator test lead cut in half with a clip on each end. Some shrink tube. Some polycarbonate. And some thin-bodied fast setting super glue. And some 3M super sticky double-backed tape.
It works like a charm.
You need to remove one of the coin chutes from the coin door. It is attached with 4 machine screws.
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The black nub you see on the strip of poly will be the "button" that will actuate the lever on the micro switch.
It will fit into the slot in the coin chute.
[quoted image]
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Wires are soldered onto the micro switch.
[quoted image]
Checking final fit of poly strip inside the chute. Nothing is binding. In my best NASA voice, " Everything is A-OK".
[quoted image]
The two halves of the chute have been taped together to hold everything tight. The micro switch has been located into the best fitting position and locked on with some super sticky 3M double backed tape. Lightly pushing on the operating end of the poly produces the desired results of actuating the micro switch.
[quoted image]
The coin chute has been reinstalled to the coin door.
[quoted image]
Here is the front side.
[quoted image]
Front side with me giving my new "button" a push. So far , so good.
[quoted image]
I have trimmed some of the excess poly from the "button" to add some refinement. I am going to trim this a bit more and into a crescent shape so very little of the "button" will be showing.
[quoted image]
The two alligator clips have been clipped on to the coin door switch.
[quoted image]
As I said earlier, it works like a charm. I know a pinsider with a 3D printer. I'm going to see if he can print me up some of these plastic "buttons" because I want do all my Sterns this way.
Would anybody be interested in some of these if I can get them printed? I have no idea what they would cost.
If you're running a stock MPU, there should free play ROMs for all Stern games now, FWIW.
Quoted from cottonm4:"Should be" or "are"? Where can I get them?
I have n Alltek's in right now but if I can get my factory MPU up and running a free play ROM would be nice.
I posted "should be" because I'm not certain if Scott Charles got them all. I believe he did. PM me with your email address, and I can send the file.
Quoted from WeatherbyMAG:I know one thing for certain, I will never restore another purple pinball machine.... getting this color even close to where I wanted it has been a HUGE pain. Many attempts at tinting, several different paint shops scanning colors, mixing/tinting colors etc. It's not exactly what I wanted, but it's pretty good. Purple is a very difficult color to work with.... In the end, this is a custom Sherwin Williams Magenta/White semi gloss mix with a touch of blue added & clear coat added some depth & darkened it a hair. Purple is tricky because it looks so different in different lighting... & from all the pics of Draculas I looked at they vary wildly on original color. The original color under the rails on this machine was a bit more reddish plum than this purple, but when I sanded the purple on the backbox the color was more purple & less reddish.... I don't think this color is exactly the way the majority of Dracula's came out of Stern, but I think it's sharp & probably a better looking color than the original. I'm not a 100% stickler for originality, so this is what I went with due to personal preference.
Pinball Pimp Stencils, excellent quality as usual.
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I like that shade of purple. Don't know what it is exactly about it, but I like it!
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Pretty much done with this thing. Turned out pretty nice.
I’m starting to see it chuckwart’s way. Game seems really easy. Just got 1.6 and two multiballs in one game.
Might be post-rippin’ time!!!
Anybody else find this one to be kind of easy? I have it on three ball and steep and I already opened up the outlanes as much as possible. I’m used to these old sterns being mean.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Adjust your flippers so they are inline with the inlanes. When they sag down like that, games are much easier from my experience. The ball nearly gets jai-alai'ed to where it needs to be. That left spinner shot to the ball walker is not easy, when set up properly. The right spinner and sweeping the targets is not easy either.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Not a bad idea. They are currently set factory resting on the roll pins!
Those pins are typically incorrect on most Sterns that I've seen / owned. Flippers shouldn't sag.
Quoted from Mitch:Got a nos stern pop bumper assembly today.
What games used a plastic ring and rod assembly.
[quoted image][quoted image]
F2K and newer. It's actually a Wico part, much like a lot of the other parts Stern started to use as time went on.
Quoted from BrianBannon:Well, hang on a minute. Those flippers on F2k aren't sagging, they sit lower for a reason. F2k is a widebody. You will find the same sort of flipper positioning on the classic Stern widebodies of that era. Players are supposed to be able to hit those outside shots. When you raise the flippers slightly, outside shots are harder and middle shots are easier and it is easier to catch the ball, too. Do what you want, raise the flippers or lower them, but those flippers sitting where they are isn't a mistake.
F2k is just an easy game, I blew mine up the first time I played it and sent it packing soon after.
<consults the flyer for F2K> https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=887&picno=3671&zoom=1
You're right, Brian! However, I have mine set inline. The outside shots are much harder on mine, making F2K a hard frustrating game. Just achieving multiball on mine is a feat in itself. I just don't like sag. It looks wrong to me.
I apologize, Levi. Still, I would put them inline, and see if it's still easy for you.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:See! Not always so cut and dry.
I’ll leave them as they are.
Also, I removed the rubber from outlane posts and the center post. Game is much better now. Scores down, but still a game of skill. Got a couple multiballs but certainly
Not every game.
If you are NEVER Getting multiball, I think your game is set too hard.
Rarely getting multiball here. Outlane and center posts are stock. I'd rather multiball be difficult, because that was the crowning achievement of any early SS multiball game. The big goal was to get multiball. The only thing wrong with MB on F2K is what do you do when you have it?
Quoted from BrianBannon:Hey thanks, Jim! Those outside shots will definitely be harder on your game. Have you considered letting the flippers sit lower and stepping down your flipper coils instead? Stock F2k flipper coils take the 25-475/34-4500, maybe step it down to the 500?
Hehe, this was a pile of parts assembled from different F2Ks all over the country (body came from COW, head from Troy North, PF from close to Erie, PA). The PF had the flippers missing, so I installed some pseudo (not Sterns, but made exactly like them) early Stern (flat flipper plate) and used 25-500 / 34-4500 Ballys in there. 
Quoted from Pinball_Nate:I just wish there were actually more of a reward for getting multi-ball - would love someone to re-work the rule set.
Exactly! That is what I was saying. Get MB, and then what? Get more MB. I just wished it had a MB PF multiplier on the PF. 2x for 2 balls in play and 3x for 3 balls in play. It would give more incentive to keep all balls in play like a lot of early classic WMS games with MB.
Quoted from thirdedition:Stolen from pinwiki:
3.19 Stern MAA-100 ROM Board
For the first Stern solid state game, Pinball, a ROM board was initially used. It was also used in Stingray, as Stingray has the same ROM set as Pinball.
This board was mounted to the backbox and a harness connected the board to the MPU board at the top connector J5.
http://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Bally/Stern
That is a cool piece of Stern history IMO. I'm sad my Stern Pinball didn't have that.
Not stolen. Thanks for giving credit to PW. Most people don't. A lot of us have worked hard at making it what it is. It could be better. WMS 3-7 section and Classic Bally / Stern sections need revamped and organized much better, but it is a large undertaking.
Quoted from statictrance:Could be standard flippers instead of Stern flippers with the little collar - that'll cause the displaced metal to kind of mushroom out and hold the stupid thing in place...
Like Thrillhouse said - I usually hold underneath on the pawl with one hand, then pull while twisting back and forth above... When it doubt, just smack it from underneath. You'd be hard pressed to do any real damage to a flipper pawl (and if you do, they're like ten bucks to replace).
Agreed. It sounds like someone installed WMS or DE / Sega / Stern bats. If so, it would probably be best to hacksaw the bat shafts, and replace the bats and cranks with new. Can you post some pics of the bats, top and bottom.
Quoted from Methos:Speaking of Stern flippers, why do the rebuild kits cost so much more than all the other types of kits?
I know it can be sacrilege, but contemplate replacing the whole flipper assy. with WMS WPC mechs. Parts are readily available for them, cheaper, and the mechs. just "feel" better, IMO. <flamesuit on>
Quoted from thirdedition:I'm not going to down vote or flame you, but I disagree. I can't stand old Stern games when they have the wrong flippers or flipper bats. I personally love the feel of the old Stern flippers. I rebuilt the ones on Magic and they feel and shoot amazing, I only wish I had done it sooner.
I used to feel the same way years ago, but have since changed my mind. I don't use Williams bats though.
Quoted from kickabit:Stern Electronics designed an almost entirely plastic pop bumper. They started using these in Cheetah and every game produced afterward. They are unique in that the pop bumper ring, the base, and yoke are all made from plastic. Data East used a similar plastic base but they ditched the plastic ring and yoke and went back to metal parts.
As for why Stern decided to use this design, I’m not entirely sure. From what I’ve seen from the progression of the parts design they seemed to focus a lot on cutting cost. The plastic parts were probably cheaper. I’d guess the answer is as simple as that.
The plastic pops are quieter than the metal design from their earlier games. Some people claim they make the ball travel faster because the pop rings are lighter(?). I’d guess that the flex from the plastic would absorb engery and slow down the ball more than metal rings. Honestly I can’t tell much of a difference other than the sound. They are somewhat unique to this era of pins and add a bit of character. I plan on putting a set in my Seawitch to see if they make a difference.
I wish you could still buy the rings and yokes but they’ve been out of stock from parts vendors for a while. You can still buy the base but only in black and blue. I also wish someone made them in white. The Stern bases seem to crack easily, but after more than 35 years the plastic may not hold up well.
Stern didn't design them. They purchased the assemblies, like most other assemblies at the time, from Wico.
IIRC, Allied Leisure was using these long before Stern.
Jim
Quoted from statictrance:Just a quick update - torn down, wiped down, LED boards installed, and freshly waxed... Playoff hockey and some repair calls will delay the finish a few days, but it's almost there. A few nicks in the paint, but no significant wear areas... I'm not pushing on the ball swirls cause I'm guessing there isn't much original finish left and I don't want to risk it. Still, it's looking really nice for 39 years young and all original.
Only issues with the game - Two lamp board SCRs I need to investigate (5,000 won't light, bottom right loop light is locked in), a display to repair/replace, one insert to expoy, and the coin door service switch was bad. I still can't believe the original battery was attached and not leaking.
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Nice survivor!
Quoted from Ronnie1114:So the last thing on this lightning is the cable that connects the speech board to the lamp driver is missing completely. It seems simple enough to make a new one, but I want to make sure that it will be wired up correctly. Is it as simple as pin 1 on the speech board to pin 1 on the lamp driver board connector? Thanks for any help!
Yes, the wiring harness is 1 to 1 from the speech board to the lamp driver board.
Jim
Quoted from canoncitypb:https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stern-mpu-to-sound-board-ribbon-cable
yuck. Worked for 3 minutes and now it isn't working again. no sound at all and mpu board resets or locks up after a couple of blinks. Disconnect the sound board and everything is good again. frustrated.
Are your sound ribbon cables new? Are the headers on the sound board and J5 of the MPU new? Flaky cables and / or crappy header pins can create all sorts of random issues. It's best to start fresh by replacing the headers and the ribbon cables, and going from there.
Jim
Quoted from Poida:Here's a use for a classic Stern you don't see every day, supporting the collapsed roof of a shed.
Just a little bit of work to get this up and running, but at least its in better condition than the Flash and Firepower next to it![quoted image][quoted image]
In the Aussie cab color combination, which makes perfect sense, because that's where you are located!
Jim
Quoted from Gott_Lieb:Anyone interested in some NOS classic Stern slingshot arms? $10 ea + S/H. These are just the kicker arms. It doesn't include the plunger, link, pivot axis (mount to PF), or spring. PM me if interested.
Jim
These are all spoken for.
Thanks,
Jim
Quoted from Whridlsoncestood:Need a lockdown bar. Couldn’t come across one at Allentown. Going on a trident.
http://jtamusements.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_4_23&products_id=313
Quoted from WeatherbyMAG:No this one is not that one..... it did sell on eBay, but very recently & for more $. It was listed as a "parts machine" What a joke.... all it was missing was the MPU, the displays & the BG. The PF is quite nice & is going to touch up & be beautiful when done.... yes cab has issues, but I don't want to meet the type of guys who are parting out a basically complete Cheetah. It would have been an absolute pinball sin to part this machine out. I will make it a creampuff, I'm going further with this machine than any other I have done, it will be "nice" when done. The owner wats to put all Stern electronics in it so I'm donating my old MPU-200 out of my Big Game for it to complete the board set & I happed to have an extra set of 7 digit displays that I bought by accident a while back not realizing they were not 6 digit (which is what I wanted at the time) So it is all working out...
I love it! All of my current Classic Sterns (plus Gamatron) were parts machines and left for dead. It makes you appreciate them that much more when you get them back together and up and running!
Jim
Quoted from Mitch:Putting out a challange to all the classic stern lovers.
Let's see if we can get the classic sterns better represented in the top 100.
Please rate your favorite classic sterns and let's see if we can get them moved up the charts.
The ranking updates sunday night so let's see where they land Monday!!!
Also how is seawitch rated higher then quicksilver right now?
I may be in the minority, but there's a reason why Seawitch is ranked higher than Quicksilver. I find Seawitch to be the better and harder game of the two. Quicksilver is wicked fast, but IMHO, it much easier to beat than Seawitch.
Jim
Quoted from chubtoad13:I’m having an intermittent issue with stars and stingray. When I power up the games sometimes the lights come on but the the game doesn’t boot up. Usually I turn power off, wait a second, and in the second power up they will boot.
Any suggestions? Is this a common issue?
How many flashes is the diagnostic LED on the MPU putting out when the games don't boot? Are they stock MPU boards or aftermarket?
Quoted from dothedoo:What 6-digit games are you rolling?
Meteor and Galaxy come to mind immediately.
Quoted from Mitch:Set them up harder, nobody has rolled my meteor..... yet.
Quoted from dothedoo:Set them harder for sure. Set Meteor at 7.5 degrees or just under where it feels like Pachinko. Turn the lane guides around on the Galaxy X and Y lanes so there’s more bounce action between the flippers.
Simply making Meteor harder put it in my top 5 classic Sterns.
Meteor is set up hard. 3-ball and jacked as high as the back will go. I don't regularly roll it, but I can more so than putting up something over 2 mil on F2K or SW.
Galaxy is gone now. I didn't like the game. The bonus count is just stupid on it. Should increment by 1K not 10K or whatever it is.
Quoted from dothedoo:Yes go with 31” legs. 3” levelers all the way up will not be enough for Meteor.
That is too drastic. You don't want a game playing like a vertical arcade game where you flick the ball into the field of pins.
Quoted from cottonm4:Oh year, one more item you will need that is not on your Dracula. Quicksilver uses one 3-place drop target assembly. It also uses a 4-place drop target assembly. AFAIK, QS is the only classic Stern to use a 4 -place drop assembly. I could be wrong, but I think you will have to get creative.
Seawitch has a 4-bank as does Galaxy. I think Nuge may be a 4 also. I'm sure there are more. 3 is the most common though.
Quoted from Methos:After collecting Sterns for several years now, finally was able to acquire the one on the top of of my list.[quoted image]
Congrats!
I was chasing a DF for 8 years, and finally landed it back in Nov. Unfortunately, there's no space to set it up at the moment. :/ I'm anxious to play it though! When I first played it 8 years ago, I determined that it was the fastest classic Stern out there. I'm not certain if that still holds true.
Quoted from Gott_Lieb:Seawitch has a 4-bank as does Galaxy. I think Nuge may be a 4 also. I'm sure there are more. 3 is the most common though.
Scrap Nuge, but insert Wild Fyre.
Quoted from dothedoo:I'm not a huge fan of Galaxy either, but I have to say the game is a lot of fun when you can't tear it up via bonus. When the game makes you work hard and a "good" score is 400K, that's when it's fun.
I wanted to like it, considering how much time I put into it, and really like the artwork. The spinner shot is cool too. But, I just couldn't get into it. Much like Wild Fyre. I can't get into that, but it's mainly because of the wretched sound! Layout is oddly familiar, wouldn't you say?
Quoted from dothedoo:I'm hoping I don't run into the same problem with Freefall. I've never played the game before so I have no point of reference, but the reviews I've seen are mediocre. Cool game and I want to like it so I'm going to have to work hard to make it a great player.
Wild Fyre does have a very familiar layout.
Had Freefall briefly (repaired and top shopped it), and did not care for it. My two complaints were: 1) Not a direct shot to the skyway ball walker. This was tolerable, but 2 wasn't. 2) If a ball would jump off the ball walker, the game would completely lose its mind! It had no way to compensate for this happening, and would remain screwed up the rest of the game for a single or multiple players.
The guy who bought it, is into classic Sterns also, and loves it. So, take this for what it's worth. You may be able to get a better adjustment out of the ball walker to keep this from happening.
I just looked at the pic of the game on the IPDB. IIRC, the main problem with the ball walker was that there was only one switch at the entrance (top). A second and / or third switch on the walker would probably help out, or maybe you can get Mr. Charles to rework the code.
Quoted from vec-tor:I fixed the problem with a bent clear piece of plastic that covered the top walker switch...
It would stop the ball hop and break the speed of the ball at the same time.
Very good!
Quoted from Gott_Lieb:Anyone interested in some NOS Stern flipper plates? These are the 1st gen, flat ones. Price is $8 ea. plus S/H. Figure on about $7.50 S/H, as they should fit into a small flat rate box.
Jim
Flipper plates are all gone. Thanks for everyone's interest!
Jim
Quoted from Mitch:What is this relay for in my ali? I'm assuming its factory.[quoted image]
Factory. Galaxy uses one too. I'm sure that there are others.
Quoted from Whridlsoncestood:I’ll get new pictures for ipdb and such and a rom dump once I get this together and cleaned a little but it’s not going to take much.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Wow! Nice pick up! Is that a magnet in the center of the PF?
Jim
Quoted from Thrillhouse:Thanks inkochnito, I'm running an altek while trouble shooting it and I'm pretty sure I already cleared it. Btw do you need any scans of the score cards or back box sheets for your site?
Was the MPU board thrown into something else before Galaxy? If so, you have to do a complete reset / clear of the board before putting it into another game.
Quoted from Chalkey:Looking for a wild fyre. Can trade an Alien Poker or negotiate cash.
I don't know if you want to make the long haul, but we have a customer in Harrisburg, PA, who had a Wild Fyre for sale. If interested, I could check if he still has it.
Jim
Quoted from jkashani:Does anyone have a list of the rubber sizes and even placement for a Nine Ball? I would like to make a Titan Rubber database list to buy and to share with others. Thank you in advance.
7A-125
27/64" - Mini-Post - White
3
7A-120-031 / 7A-135
5/16" - Ring - White
10
7A-120-100
1" - Ring - White
2
7A-120-150
1-1/2" - Ring - White
2
7A-120-200
2" - Ring - White
3
7A-120-250
2-1/2" - Ring - White
1
7A-120-300
3" - Ring - White
2
7A-120-350
3-1/2" - Ring - White
1
7A-121 / 7A-121-1
1/2 x 1-1/2" - Standard Flipper - Red
2
A-105
Rebound Rubber
1
7A-122
Shooter Tip
1
Quoted from Chalkey:Can an SB-300 be used in place of an SB-100?
Unfortunately, no. If it did, it would make me revisit some of the -100 games with wretched sound.
Jim
Quoted from slochar:Anyone wants to convert some mpu100 games over to chimes LMK and I'll look at the software
Please look at Nugent for chimes.
Quoted from Tsskinne:Anyone out there have a lockdown bar they can sell that will fit a Seawitch?
Had no stainless spares laying around, so I had a roached DE bar that I had stripped and powdercoated dark blue along with the legs. I love the look of it, and I'm not big on powdercoating matching trim work. I would never do the coin door or siderails. If you want a pic, LMK.
Quoted from Tsskinne:Thanks man, I would love to see a picture. I checked your website yesterday looking for the part haha. Feel free to PM or email [email protected]
Thank you.
Oh, it's not for sale. It's on my personal Seawitch.
Seawitch Trim (resized).JPGQuoted from cottonm4:That blue does not look bad. I am a bling type guy but that blue ain't looking bad at all.
I'm not one to do this at all. In fact, this and an ALI that we had, were the only two games where I had the lockdown bar and legs powdercoated a specific color. I really like how the blue turned out on the one on Seawitch. One thing that I will never do is get the siderails and door powdercoated. That's too over-the-top for me.
Quoted from slochar:The PBL flipper kits seem to get magnetized really easily. At this point I recycle other copper coil stops from the pop bumpers and put the steel ones there; a long time ago Marco was selling a plunger that was correct (it was some gottlieb part for about $2) but they're sold out. PBR had some links on their specials page and I bought a pile of those.
Not sure what's up with the PBL kits but there's something off on them - slam tilt was talking about having to drill new holes in the plate as it was in the wrong spot.
Doesn't anyone sell the links anymore? We have a pile of unopened bags from Wico. I use them when I end up using stock flippers on my personal Sterns. I forget where I pull the plungers from.
Quoted from bluespin:I have a Nugent in storage that is missing the lockdown bar receiver. There is a local collector offering a free receiver, and thinks it’s for early classic Sterns but isn’t sure. Before I do the three hour round trip can someone confirm that the receiver in the picture will work in my Nugent? Thanks[quoted image]
That is a WMS receiver.
Quoted from vbittnv:still looking for a complete 4 bank stern drop target assembly. If anyone has one or leads I'd appreciate it! Thanks!
PM sent
Quoted from Whridlsoncestood:How many widebody data east game were there? GNR, WWF and BF? Better grab this last one floating around there.....
http://jtamusements.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_4_23&products_id=1395&zenid=1m4j45ljvmls8t0trctit0r2q1
I don't think the widebody DE bars fit classic Stern games. The bar is a different length and the "tangs" are placed in different positions.
Quoted from cottonm4:Pinball Life shows both the narrow and wide body lock down bars. Only one receiver is shown.
Since Data East just Gary Stern riding with a new name I’m betting the same economic manufacturing practices that drove Stern carried over to DE.
What worked for Stern was still good. Why reinvent the wheel?
I’m betting the wide DE bar will fit. It just will be painted black and not shiny stainless.
https://www.pinballlife.com/stern-front-molding-lockdown-bar-receiver-assembly.html Read what this does and doesn't fit.
Quoted from slochar:Trident does not have enough solenoid circuits to run a chime box a custom driver board would have to be manufactured and added to j5.
Dracula and Wild Fyre conveniently are the exact same romset and do have space for a chime box. Can you test the roms once written? You'd wire up the chime box in the exact same configuration as Stars. Nugent will be under test soon but if you can test that as well too.
Currently Nugent just replaces the sounds with the chimes - there's no start up chime tune or anything yet. That can be added later.
And, for anyone interested, here is a very (very) short video of Nugent with chimes - https://photos.app.goo.gl/BKi7xL9qng28HYya6. Never heard Nugent with an SB-100 sound board, but I know it's just as awful as every other M-100 game. Thanks again for making this happen, Scott!
Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:We went over this before. I bought the Data East receiver off a WWE and I had a classic Stern widebody lockdown bar for Orbitor 1 and my data East bars were interchangeable. Literally scroll up just a few posts.
They are identical and they will fit. Cotton made a HUGE post about how they are all interchangeable. I even emailed Pinball Life and explained it fits perfectly, I guess Terry either doesn’t believe me or hasn’t updated the site since then. They DO work. Trust me because I literally just bought them and they’re all interchangeable
You are correct that the latching assys. are the same, but the DE widebody bar is shorter. There was a difference, I just couldn't remember what it was. https://photos.app.goo.gl/aMc5AhM5DFPsiQ2R9
Quoted from TheLaw:My friend picked it up... And then I bought it from him!
So really not much of a story. I didn't even ask him anything I just needed it in my
Hands.
Gonna need some work, but hey it's got a real bagatelle gate so that's something
Does your friend have the initials MW? If not, there are a couple of these recently picked up in MI.
Quoted from HHaase:Got my Lectronamo fired up today, with the sound working for the first time.
Now I understand SB100 opinions.
What did I do to deserve this?
Talk to Scott Charles about getting chime code for Lectronamo. He did it for Nugent, which is the same code. Then, just acquire some Stern or Bally chimes. Nugent never sounded better!!!!
Quoted from rotordave:Could be worse ...
It could be a Gottlieb System 1 ....
BEEP BEEP BEEP BOOOOOP
rd
Nope. Beep-boop is not nearly as bad as bladda-dada-da and pew!
Quoted from NeilMcRae:got a altek board in my Quicksilver but can't get high scores to work all I see is this: tried changing the dip switches to no avail...
any ideas?
[quoted image]
Does it go into attract mode,and can you start a game? If not, I suspect that the game dipswitches are set for a Stern game with multiball. You will something similar to this on the displays with a Stern multiball game, if it can't find the other balls.
Quoted from NeilMcRae:got a altek board in my Quicksilver but can't get high scores to work all I see is this: tried changing the dip switches to no avail...
any ideas?
[quoted image]
The other thing is if the board was in another game before this Quicksilver, you need to do a factory reset, or the new game can act wonky. See the instructions to set the dips for a factory reset.
Quoted from Chalkey:I have a Lectronamo with the original SB-100. I've been reading that it has "chime circuitry" that can be used, but can't find any guides or anybody that has said "yeah I've done that". Is it really as easy as wiring up an existing chime box and flipping a dip switch on the MPU, or am I misunderstanding what it means by chime circuitry? I don't see any tip102s on the SB-100, so how does it work, send a signal back to the MPU which tells the SDU to fire the correct chime coil?
Get with Scott Charles on this. The original code only supports the "chime circuitry" on the SB-100 that is populated with the chime circuitry (read fully populated SB-100 board).
Scott has been rewriting the code for games that use the SB-100 to handle chimes. The Nugent PF I had at the York Show had chime support. It's much, much better. I can't stand the sounds out of the SB-100.
Jim
PS Wild Fyre can be coded for chimes too!
Quoted from RC_like_the_cola:I'd be down to do this to my Stern Magic. My Meteor had a Bally chime box laying in the cab when I got it, so, I believe I have the necessary parts.
Until Scott adds the start up tune, you'll be good with the Bally chime box. You'll just be missing the one "extra" chime, when the game ends. There are single Bally chime boxes out there for solid state games at least.
Quoted from Chalkey:Someone said Nugent is the same ROM as Lectronamo, is this the case? If so, how do I get the ROM? Happy to make a donation to the cause or help beat test. Also have a Wild Fyre I can convert if you're planning on ever working on that one.
Yes, it's the same. Contact Scott, or I can send the binaries to you.
Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:I may have asked this before and forgot but I wanted to do this preemptively on the Orbitor 1 (just waiting on my MPU-200 to get fixed) so that if I ever have future issues the molex will be a godsend. Which ones were the proper ones to use? Again, apologies if I asked this previously.
Also I have 2 meteors I’m restoring and of course the 3 other MPU-200’s I have are all bad. Who’s a good person to send them out to??
A 9-pin .093" inline Molex would work for a 3-bank drop target assy. (https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=03-09-2092 & https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=03-09-1094). A 9-pin would also work for a 4-bank, provided that the 4-bank has a common switch row or column between a minimum of 2 of the switches. https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/categories.asp?cat=46
Send your boards to @CHRISHIBLER, at Chris' Pinball Repair (http://chrishiblerpinball.com/contact/), provided that they are not too roached with battery damage.
Quoted from Whridlsoncestood:Blasphemy.[quoted image]
20 steps backwards with this "upgrade".
Quoted from WeatherbyMAG:Seawitch blue wave spinner decals?? Can't find these for sale anywhere.... one of last parts I need to finish a resto I'm doing. Anyone know of a source?[quoted image]
I have a pretty clean scan, if you want to roll your own. Send me a PM.
Quoted from dothedoo:I had a problem with about half of the controlled lights in Freefall that was driving me nuts. Sure it has a bunch of loose, troublesome sockets, but not this many.
I noticed the affected lamps were associated with J1 and J3 on the lamp driver board. Some of the lamps would work for a while, then stop working. I'd mess with the sockets and some would start working again, some wouldn't.
Anybody want to guess what the problem(s) were?
The mounting bracket on the right side for the lamp driver board was the wrong one, and the back of the J1 and J3 headers were shorting out to it?
Jim
Quoted from Gott_Lieb:The mounting bracket on the right side for the lamp driver board was the wrong one, and the back of the J1 and J3 headers were shorting out to it?
Jim
Although, this would more than likely keep the lamps turned on all of the time.
Quoted from cottonm4:Those are pop bumper sleeves. I keep them in mine. They don't hurt anything.
I think you mean drop target reset coil sleeves.
Quoted from bluespin:gott_lieb Can You help him out?
Nope. too-many-pins needed this bracket for a 4-bank the other week, and I couldn't help him out.
Jim
Quoted from seshpilot:Rad! Thanks for the help cottonm4. Looks like the piece I need is IB-616-4, but probably impossible to find. Any chance you have a pic or 2 of how to make something out of option #3? Sounds like the easiest route.
gott_lieb, you don't have a 5 or 6 bank one do you? That 4-bank one that too-many-pins was looking for was probably for me! ;P
We probably have a 5 or 6, but it's attached to a complete bank. I wouldn't want to rob a bank just for that piece. You could always get two 3's and cut them. 3's are a lot more prevalent.
Quoted from bluespin:There are two types:
Pins through Hot Hand had a button to insert in the receiver.
Pins Meteor forward used slots to fit in the receiver. I can post a picture of what you’re looking for when I get home.
gott_lieb Usually has some for sale on his site but it looks like he’s out. Pm him and too-many-pins to see if they can locate one for you. https://www.jtamusements.com/store/
Hot Hand and Magic use the Meteor type bar. And you are correct, we are currently out at the moment.
Quoted from cottonm4:My Hot Hand had a slotted receiver and lockdown bar. I have no explanation for it. The pin was not beat up so I assume the lockdown/receiver assembly were original. I was thinking HH was the last MPU-100 game and the slotted lock assembly was a transition to the MPU-200 games but Magic came after Hot Hand, however, I don't know what Magic was outfitted with.
See my reply to Bluespin.
Quoted from seshpilot:Curious if anyone knows the difference between the v1 and v2 classic Stern flipper brackets? While the layout of the screw holes is a bit different, I can't see why there would be any playing difference. The rebuild kits for both v1 and v2 are the same, but the brackets are indeed different. djblouw?
PM sent
Quoted from Flynnyfalcon:Any aftermarket speaker recommendations out there for Classic Sterns? Mine has seen better days. A slight bump in resolution and performance would be great if possible given the stock amplification.
Nearly anything is an upgrade from the stock speaker. I ended up putting in a speaker from a Firepower in my Meteor eons ago. It went from all mids and especially highs to a nice low end.
Quoted from SR230CC:I have had some assistance on this issue in the past and I still can't figure it out.
I can not get the GI to flash during attract or when GALAXY is spelled. It worked before I did a playfield swap.
I re-pinned Q17 plug on the Driver Board and Tried and Alltek Driver board.
The Relay was ordered from K's 48V.
Is this wired up correctly? Thought I copied how it was before.
Note: GI works fine, it just wont trigger to flash. MPU and Lamp board are Alltek.
Hopefully someone can help.[quoted image][quoted image]
Does it work if you ground the pin on the driver board? Is the drive wire in the correct position on the header of the SDB?
Jim
Quoted from SR230CC:I have had some assistance on this issue in the past and I still can't figure it out.
I can not get the GI to flash during attract or when GALAXY is spelled. It worked before I did a playfield swap.
I re-pinned Q17 plug on the Driver Board and Tried and Alltek Driver board.
The Relay was ordered from K's 48V.
Is this wired up correctly? Thought I copied how it was before.
Note: GI works fine, it just wont trigger to flash. MPU and Lamp board are Alltek.
Hopefully someone can help.[quoted image][quoted image]
Also, can you hear the GI relay click in solenoid test, and how many green wires are going to the GI relay.
Quoted from SR230CC:I figured it out. I checked each connector and found one wire was on the wrong side of the connector in the same spot as the key on driver board!?!
My fault when redoing the connectors.
And that is why I asked about the connector.
Quoted from A_Bord:Good advice. I never get a good sense of what can be done to keep the sanded/polished metal from corroding again. Is wax enough?
Mother's Mag Polish preserves the metal nicely
Quoted from cottonm4:Just to help you out. A Bally cabinet of the era will also work for you. And if Williams play fields are the same size, you could probably use Williams cabinet as well. They are just made out of wood.
A Bally cabinet is not the same. The hole spacing to secure the head between a Bally and a classic Stern is different.
Quoted from cottonm4:It is wood. That would be an easy problem to overcome. But nice to know.
But you do make me question this: Are the back glass size for Bally and Stern the same?
Oh, you can drill new holes, but it won't work as a stock Bally cabinet.
Yep, what Tommy said. Bally backglasses are taller than Sterns.
Quoted from play_pinball:Here’s the bushing:
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/4A-111-W-1
As for the shorter bat shaft, I’m not sure why that truly matters if the shaft just sticks through the bushing a 1/4” or so more. Replacement flippers don’t have the notch cut out for a specific height.
If you are not getting the bats with the set screw groove, you are going to have a ton of trouble trying to remove those bats in the future. PBL has the bats with the grooves / reliefs.
Quoted from cottonm4:They are not correct. Sad. They are the only game in town.
The problem: Between the two card holders it is supposed to say: Stern Electronics Inc.
All they say is: Stern Electronic
Why don't you contact them, so they can fix their error?
Quoted from frunch:Does anyone know where to get the upper backglass trim for Stars? I can't lock the backbox properly without it.
Regular black trim works. Not certain if anyone sells white.
Quoted from cottonm4:Continuing with my proclivity to make molehills into mountains, I dug a little deeper.
1) Since I own a DE Robocop I thought I would check out the source. That was a big fat raspberry. DE used the shorter posts which allow for the studs to come all the way through to the bottom.
2) Next method is called destructive testing where you have to destroy the part in question to see what is really happening. A trip to the belt sander was employed.
You might not be able to see it clearly in the pic but there are 3 three threads biting. The 6-32 nut I have added only has 3 threads biting so this set up will probably be fine for pinball machine. It is not the end of the world if one comes loose. You will not fall out of the sky. I will add that loose posts wobbling around will cut into your play field paint.
There is this caveat:
1) You can't really know how many threads are biting if you cannot see them. 3 threads are probably OK but if you only have 2 threads biting in, I think you are pushing your luck. And unless you are going to do a destructive test you cannot know with confidence, which is the reason aircraft specs that two threads are showing.
I now know that I will be using the screw coming up from the bottom on all tall posts and T-nutting anything that uses a stud. This saves the hassle of stripping a screw hole in the wood. Stripped holes are easy to fix, but I am going onto more positive ways to lock down a post.
As I say this, I understand that I have invested money for tools to take some of this kind of action i.e. making longer screws shorter. If you don't have the tools for making screws shorter you will just have to give it your best shot.
[quoted image]I got the longest studs I could from PBR. You are looking at one of them.
It is called safety wire. Safety wire is used when you have a bolt screwed into a blind hole. Lock washers are not used. On any assembly where a nut is used, the nut will be a special locking nut but no Nylocks, or it will be a castle nut where a cotter pin can be used for positive locking.
Caution: While we are talking about posts, which are not a big deal in the great scheme of things, one of the pins I bought had the back box bolted down with 4 too-short bolts that did not have the protruding threads. There was no way to tell how many threads were holding my back box on. Taking no chances, those bolts went to the trash.
If you are unsure with how your back box is attached to your cab, It is cheap insurance to pull your back glass and reach down inside and feel to protruding threads on those 4 bolts. If you cannot feel the tip of the bolt, if all you are feeling is what seems to be an empty hole, you know what you gotta do.
Why not just use all thread rod, cut it to length, nut it on the top like Stern did, and if so desired, nut the bottom below the t-nut?
Seems like a simple solution, and you won't have to rely on post length anymore. Just cut to length as needed.
Quoted from slochar:How would you hold the threaded rod in place to tighten it? (Or, more specifically, to loosen it, since it might just thread out of the Tnut if the top nut was being stubborn). At least with a machine screw you could depend on the head from allowing the nut to pull it out of the tnut.
The new bolt cut to length seems the easiest to me if you want the original look.... 6-32 bolts gotta be cheaper than threaded rod?
I think it's more disturbing that the threaded studs into Tnuts aren't available except vintage.... I don't think I changed too many of PF's over just Meteor and F2k (and various posts on Big Game that were snapped at a tournament). I know I also saved all the carriage bolts I removed as I'm a packrat.
How often are you pulling posts out of your games? It took how many years / x amount of games before the carriage bolt was removed, right? I didn't think this was a matter of having to remove the post on a regular basis.
Quoted from hisokajp:any chance someone has a spare Knocker bracket assembly? Just realized one of my Stern machine i have owned for years did not have one... Don't ask
[quoted image]
As long as you don't say it's for your Flight 2000, no one will question you.
Quoted from embryonjohn:Need some advise.
We’ve been playing this Magic non-stop.
Give me your favorite playing classic Stern cause I think I’m hooked and I’ll be in the market for another very soon
Meteor and Flight 2000 are Stern's best, IMHO. It's no coincidence that they are the highest produced Sterns either.
Quoted from hisokajp:anyone has a good source for a replacement speaker POTS?
We have some NOS pots with the mounting bracket for the MPU-200 games. $20 + S/H
Quoted from Gott_Lieb:We have some NOS pots with the mounting bracket for the MPU-200 games. $20 + S/H
All are accounted for and sold!
Quoted from woody76:anyone ever convert a flight 2000 over to big game? I have a fully populated BG playfield and access to a project flight. Just wanting to pick your brain for a second.
You will just be sans knocker.
Quoted from Flynnyfalcon:Are there any flipper experts in here? I've rebuilt my Quicksilver flippers but they lack power. I've rebuilt plenty of flippers previously, so I wasn't sure if it was simply me comparing to my more modern pins, or I'd forgotten about their lower comparable power. I've been through Vid's guide and anything else on Pinside labelled "low power flippers classic stern/bally" etc but it's made no discernible improvement.
Along with the rebuild kit, I replaced the coils, sleeves, bushings and flipper bats. Switches gapped to 3.2mm give or take a mm or 2. Silicon spray on the flipper bats and plunger. All linkages appear to move freely. I added molex plugs for convenience.
Vid of gameplay below. I compared with Bowens tutorial and in his, there is definitely more power on his. [quoted image][quoted image]
I would get rid of the Molex plugs. How often do you need to be removing flipper assemblies?
Also, if you think it may be the EOS switch, run an alligator jumper across the switch to see if power is increased. Just don't trap the ball or hold the flipper in too long, or else you will burn up the power winding.
Quoted from northvibe:Were the smaller transformers in a certain generation or board set of game vs the larger?
Man, it is so interesting to me learning all of this stuff so thank you everyone for posting information!
The changeover was made when they went to -200 games starting with Meteor. I seem to remember someone posting on RGP years ago that the -6 transformer was created, so Stern could use 4 flippers with their games, and not have any current lag on the solenoid bus. Some of the -100 games have 3 flippers, but none have 4 flippers.
I'm pretty certain that I have a -3 in my current Flight 2000, and I do not notice any difference from my last F2K, which had the correct -6 in it.
Quoted from bluespin:Thanks for the replies. He can identify the mpu200s by the copper latch bar assembly. I still need someone with a mpu100 pin to see if there are any easily identifiable parts on the back like the copper tabs on the mpu200 pins.
There isn't.
Quoted from cottonm4:Yes. His flipper switches have the larger contacts. I don’t know why he does not sell them
Part # CU-CONTACT is what Steve uses on all of his new EOS switches. They would work fine for cabinet switches too.
Quoted from bluespin:He also needs to lift the playfield, disconnect the connectors on the rectifier board, remove from the c clamps in the bottom of the cabinet, and pull that group of wiring up into the head. Unscrew the ground braid that’s on the bottom of the head.
Just the 20 pin bottom connector on the rectifier board. The others can stay. I believe there is a 4-pin inline connector at the speaker which needs to be disconnected, before the 20 pin connector can go up into the head.
Quoted from bluespin:Are the older Chicago coin em lockdown bars the same as the early mpu100 classic Stern lockdown bars?
No, the pins are positioned in a different place. CC is towards the player, while Stern is away from the player or vice versa. They are in the center spacing though.
Quoted from hisokajp:i feel like we often answer this question
I always end up using the Bally equivalent from PBL, works great. https://www.pinballlife.com/bally-end-of-stroke-switch-normally-closed.html
This is the one that you want on the secondary EOS - https://www.pinballlife.com/bally-secondary-end-of-stroke-switch-normally-open.html. It needs to be normally open to slightly "stagger" the power between the lower flipper and upper flipper.
Quoted from BrotherSir:I recently picked up my first non-modern pin: A Stern Hot Hand. I know I'm missing something from the coin mech, but since I have no experience with these I'm hoping I can get a little guidance as to what it is. I have to open the door and drop coins through the switch manually to add credits. Pictures below are the coin door as is:
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
In addition to the coin mechs, you are missing the piece that collects the rejected coins, and sends it to the coin return.
Quoted from Bluebeard:Question on a lockdown bar from my Wild Fyre. I need a fin lockdown bar and one where the fins start 2 5/8 from the left and 2 3/8 on the right. See attached. Does anyone know if this was an original Stern setup? I bought this was a custom made bar with screws into the from of the cabinet. [quoted image]
Underneath your tape measure should have the holes for the lockdown bar. Wild Fyre used the "pins / studs" versus the fins. Hot Hand was the first to use the fins.
Quoted from Gott_Lieb:Underneath your tape measure should have the holes for the lockdown bar. Wild Fyre used the "pins / studs" versus the fins. Hot Hand was the first to use the fins.
Scrap what I said. It looks like someone changed your lockdown bar receiver with the newer style.
Quoted from Bluebeard:FYI I asked them about this and their reply was that Stern used two different rollover buttons in the 1970's. Mine on the left is the Stern # 4B 241, the one on the right they sent me is the 4A 129A. He said they don't have the 4B 241 at this time. My problem is that the new buttons don't reach though the housing underneath.
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
How many of the longer ones do you need? We have a few that are NOS like that. We tons of the shorter style. They would be $3 ea. + S/H
Quoted from Clytor:Has anyone here taken a Stern chime unit and converted it to work in a Williams game? I am mainly wondering if there are any 24v coils that are the same size as the Stern coils such that you can just swap them out. Otherwise, I could see drilling new holes for the coil stops to accommodate the size of a 24 coil like a A2-26-1300.
I've never done it, but the WMS reel coils should be very close in bobbin size. I think they may be B26-800.
Quoted from lightingnut:Anyone know if he Penn-Ray coils are still made?
Sadly, Penn-Ray has been gone since the owner was killed in a motorcycle accident at least 10-12 years ago.
Jim
Quoted from Agent_Hero:I'm trying to fix some strange behavior in my Catacomb. Are these disc capacitors correct for replacing those on the switches?
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/vishay/d103m43z5ul63l6r/?qs=GtWgGqLahXebGpson6kwGg%3D%3D&countrycode=US¤cycode=USD
Also in the manual, if I read it correctly an asterisk denotes when the disc capacitor is needed on a switch, correct?
https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=CCD-0.047uF-100V
Quoted from GorillaBiscuits:Thanks! Does anybody make the proper foil stamped circular credit stickers? I remade those foil "approved for tournament play" apron stickers last year, maybe I should get some of those credit ones going as well if nobody supplies them. I have a non-shiny one as well on it and it's driving me nuts haha.
Darin at Phoenix Arcade made the foil credit button decals eons ago. They should be on the website along with coin door decals.
Link - https://www.phoenixarcade.com/products/stern/stern-credit-decal
Door decal link - https://www.phoenixarcade.com/products/stern/stern-coin-door-decal
FWIW, PA products are top notch!
Jim
Quoted from bigguybbr:I'm running into the same snag with my Meteor refurb that I just picked up a couple of days ago. It doesn't appear that I can find a replacement for my chewed up apron that someone went at with a window scraper to get off a sticker, and decals don't appear to be available either. I'm really hoping I don't have to make my own water transfer, because the quality never seems to be good enough, especially for something that sits so close to the player.
On another note, are there any direct swap lockdown bars available? Mine has a deep enough gouge in the front that I don't think I can sand out.[quoted image]
We should have a couple of those aprons. PM if interested.
Quoted from cottonm4:New info. on my issue with games and credits being spontaneously added without me doing anything.
I have all the 3 drop assemblies wired with Molex connectors so I can mix and match at will.
First, I disconnect all 3 assemblies.
Then:
Left drop hooked up. I play the hell out of the pin with no issues. No extra players are added during 1 player games. No credits are added to the credit display. I have the machine set to where I have to coin up for each play. Left drop is disconnected.
Middle drop is hooked up. I play the hell out of the pin with no issues. ETC. ETC. ETC. Middle drop is disconnected.
Right drop is hooked up. I play the hell out of the pin with no issues. ETC. ETC. ETC. Right drop is disconnected.
Next,
Left drop and middle drop are hooked up. No issues.
Left drop and right drop are hooked up. No issues.
Middle drop and right drop are hooked up. No issues.
And then I hook all 3 drops back up and this horse shit starts again. The game resets in the middle of a game, 15 credits are added, and I am now player 2 in a 4 player game. And I can finish out playing all 4 players like all is OK.
Why is it acting up only with 3 drops connected but plays fantastic when only 1 or 2 drops are connected?
==================================================================
but there is also a new issue.
And something new has cropped up. Sometimes, usually on ball 2 or ball 3, the solenoids die during game action. The pops go dead. The slings go dead. If it happens during ball 2, the ball will drain and trigger the outhole for ball 3. If it goes dead on ball 3, the ball with drain and the game is over. Pushing the credit button starts a new game as normal.
What makes a game just die during game play?
This is a new build with a new harness. All boards are Alltek. And I have tried 2 different MPUs and 2 different SDUs with no change in action.
Your drop targets are wired up wrong somewhere. This may help with figuring things out - https://www.pinitech.com/switch_database.php?name=Stern_Star_Gazer. Center bank (I assume top bank) is in the same strobe or return as the coin switches. Bottom left bank is in the same strobe or return as the credit button. Right bank is in the same strobe or return as credit button and tilt. Posts some pics of your drop target switches and how they are wired up.
Ball ending (you're calling it "solenoids dying") is more than likely due to a tilt.
Jim
Quoted from cottonm4:I'm not out of the woods yet, but you forced me to look at things a little closer. Here are my 3 drop assemblies.
This is the drop assembly I use for the left hand side. I don't see anything wrong with this assembly, but that for sure does not mean much.
[quoted image]
This is the assembly I use for the center back. I am using this unit with the switches placed on the bottom ( the location of this assembly on the play field makes it a herculean task to try and adjust switches that cannot be seen without a mirror). Again, I do not see anything wrong with this unit.
[quoted image]
This is my right hand side assembly. This is the unit that I had to reverse how it was wired due to the way the switches are stacked. The common wire is located on the back row of switch lugs. And while I reversed the position of the wires, I failed to reverse the direction of the 3 diodes.
[quoted image]
The difference can be seen better in this pic.
[quoted image]
So, I reversed the 3 diodes and reinstalled the drops. I played a few games and all was well---until it wasn't. My problem still exists. A single player game will suddenly reset the drops and turns into a 4 player game and any random number of credits with be added all the way up to 40 credits.
So, I am back on the drawing board with this.
============================================
Here is the kicker: The pin will still "go dead" or tilt during gameplay. It does not happen often. I had the glass off and was playing ball 2 when saw a "dead ball hit" on the lower pop. I caught the ball and removed it from the play field. And then the outhole activated and changed to Ball 3 in play while I was still holding the ball in my hand!
Obviously, I have a problem with my installation. I think I am going load the play field back into the rotisserie and get out the magnifying glass and pretend I am Sherlock Holmes.
------------------------------------------
I have other things in life to attend to for a few days. This story will be continued. [quoted image][quoted image]
I haven't spent too much time studying your pics, but at a glance, it looks like the bank in your first pics is wired differently than the other two.
Jim
Quoted from cottonm4:Thanks. I'll look closer.
And the second and third have the diodes opposite of one another.
Quoted from cottonm4:I'm not out of the woods yet, but you forced me to look at things a little closer. Here are my 3 drop assemblies.
This is the drop assembly I use for the left hand side. I don't see anything wrong with this assembly, but that for sure does not mean much.
[quoted image]
This is the assembly I use for the center back. I am using this unit with the switches placed on the bottom ( the location of this assembly on the play field makes it a herculean task to try and adjust switches that cannot be seen without a mirror). Again, I do not see anything wrong with this unit.
[quoted image]
This is my right hand side assembly. This is the unit that I had to reverse how it was wired due to the way the switches are stacked. The common wire is located on the back row of switch lugs. And while I reversed the position of the wires, I failed to reverse the direction of the 3 diodes.
[quoted image]
The difference can be seen better in this pic.
[quoted image]
So, I reversed the 3 diodes and reinstalled the drops. I played a few games and all was well---until it wasn't. My problem still exists. A single player game will suddenly reset the drops and turns into a 4 player game and any random number of credits with be added all the way up to 40 credits.
So, I am back on the drawing board with this.
============================================
Here is the kicker: The pin will still "go dead" or tilt during gameplay. It does not happen often. I had the glass off and was playing ball 2 when saw a "dead ball hit" on the lower pop. I caught the ball and removed it from the play field. And then the outhole activated and changed to Ball 3 in play while I was still holding the ball in my hand!
Obviously, I have a problem with my installation. I think I am going load the play field back into the rotisserie and get out the magnifying glass and pretend I am Sherlock Holmes.
------------------------------------------
I have other things in life to attend to for a few days. This story will be continued. [quoted image][quoted image]
Pics for reference
You can zoom in more here - https://photos.app.goo.gl/hzWwLKWQz7nckcUp8 and here - https://photos.app.goo.gl/YDbTqaPmpCgFtRck6
pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).pngQuoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:So my Seawitch is playing great after the playfield swap. My only issue is one of my slings is machine gunning every once in awhile. I took a closer look and noticed a capacitor on the side machine gunning and no capacitor on the side working perfectly. Which configuration is correct. The sling switches seemed gapped correctly.
[quoted image][quoted image]
Get rid of the cap. It's not needed on slings or pops for that matter.
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:That's my thought but it looks factory installed. I like to keep my classics as close to factory as I can. If it is original I would like it stay.
The switches in the schematic will show if a cap was there from the factory or not.
Quoted from Bluebeard:My Nugent game is acting up with the left bank of Drop Targets. There are times when all three drop, that they don't reset. The last two times this has happened is when a get the ball to drop all three at once. This has also happened when first one or two are dropped and then the last. Does anyone know why this would happened? Its random as most of the time they reset. Any ideas?
Nugent is an odd bird, because the code was used by another game previously. That's not really the odd part though. What is odd is that the previous game had a 5-bank of drop targets, where Nugent only has a 3-bank. There are dual switches on two of your drop targets on that bank. Make certain that the dual switches are both making when a target is dropped.
Quoted from Bluebeard:My Nugent game is acting up with the left bank of Drop Targets. There are times when all three drop, that they don't reset. The last two times this has happened is when a get the ball to drop all three at once. This has also happened when first one or two are dropped and then the last. Does anyone know why this would happened? Its random as most of the time they reset. Any ideas?
Nugent is an odd bird, because the code was used by another game previously. That's not really the odd part though. What is odd is that the previous game had a 5-bank of drop targets, where Nugent only has a 3-bank. There are dual switches on two of your drop targets on that bank. Make certain that the dual switches are both making when a target is dropped.
Quoted from Gott_Lieb:Nugent is an odd bird, because the code was used by another game previously. That's not really the odd part though. What is odd is that the previous game had a 5-bank of drop targets, where Nugent only has a 3-bank. There are dual switches on two of your drop targets on that bank. Make certain that the dual switches are both making when a target is dropped.
You may need to get a copy of the code Scott Charles made, which allows all of the switches that are closed to be shown in switch test. This would probably be the easiest way to troubleshoot your issue.
Quoted from GorillaBiscuits:I purchased 4x complete flipper assemblies from pinball life for my rather sluggish big game project, and like a dummy I totally forgot the two higher flippers have double contact switches. The original ones have seen better days for sure and I’d like to replace them.
Could a kind soul point me out to a link where I can purchase? I have no idea which ones are correct. Thanks!
https://www.pinballlife.com/bally-secondary-end-of-stroke-switch-normally-open.html
Quoted from GorillaBiscuits:Dang. Any other suggestions? Maybe something at PBR?
PBR recommends subbing with the same switch assy. I didn't post PBR, because most people gripe about his payment system. :/
Quoted from BertoDRINK1:Took my Trident to the Atlanta SFGE show this past weekend with the Updated Dick Hamill code with a speaker on top of the head to hear all the new sounds and speech also threw in a power ball to speed it up. I got a good amount of play and very positive reviews. It Won best modded game in the show award. These updates packages are really cool.
Time to Finish up my Meteor cab next, that's getting the Arduino treatment also.
[quoted image][quoted image]
Meteor PF looks good, except I think you have your return lanes flip-flopped. Best classic Stern made!
Quoted from cottonm4:The Ball in Play/Credit display is a 6 digit display. 7 digits are for Player scores .
I assembled all 5 displays per Pinitech's instructions. The wire harness is from #rd Coast Pinball. However, this is the 2nd displays harness I have installed. I had the same credits display issue with the other harness as well.
I did not repin anything. [quoted image]
It appears that the harness is wrong. Move the connectors to enable the correct digits. Look at any other Stern or Bally that you have with the original wiring to see which two wires are off.
Quoted from BrotherSir:Sounds like I had the right general idea. Is there anything i need to know about the transistors? Is there a specific type I need to use?
A 2N5060, 2N5061, or 2N5064 will work.
Quoted from megadeth2600:You should also ask if people might want a redesigned drop target bank. Those older Bally/Stern banks are overkill. It might be better to design one that's more like a late 80s Williams bank (but obviously keep the Stern mounting holes).
I don't know how that would fly with collectors, but people doing builds may not care since it isn't original anyway ... plus it wouldn't impact gameplay at all.
Just a suggestion .
Might as well use Gottlieb 4-bank drop target banks then. They are tried and true, and the drop targets always drop. I have them install in Nugent, Mata Hari, and Flash. Never have to lift the hood to pfutz with them, nor is there any kind of bricking!
pasted_image (resized).png
pasted_image (resized).pngInteresting. How plentiful are these in the used market?
Not certain, but probably more plentiful than classic Stern, mainly due to production numbers, I would think. Our inventory on 4-bank Gottliebs is ridiculous. We probably have about 15 of them.
Quoted from play_pinball:Actually, I think so! I just ordered one of these last week but I have not tested it yet. I don’t see any reason why it would not work though.
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/A-5920
If you don't need new Stern shooter rods, I believe we have some.
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:I have a question. My factory Seawitch backglass lockdown bar is the one without tabs. My OEM backglass just has the plastic trim running along the top. That combination really doesn’t do anything for securing the backglass. I want to purchase the new backglass lockdown bar from Mantis with the tabs. My backbox does have the cutouts in the head to accommodate the tabbed bar. My concern is the two tabs applying pressure to my backglass with only the plastic trim to protect it. I believe that trim piece was metal back in the day which would have provided considerable protection. Should I be concerned or is the plastic trim ok?
Yep, you'll be fine with the plastic top trim. I used the tabbed bar from a Stars for the Galaxy that we had, because the Galaxy was being built out of scrap parts. It worked perfectly fine.
Quoted from play_pinball:I had this happen on my F2K and now it's happening on my SG... and I can't remember what the problem was on F2K!
Something is shorting out the right spinner switch. It's not registering spins (contacts are clean), but the switch will fire if I touch my finger to something grounded (side rail) and then touch any part of the spinner (bracket, arm, switch), it will start firing. Occasionally it will fire the left flipper rollover switch instead.
One day I'll know how these things work.
YOU are shorting a switch to ground, when you touch the spinner and touch ground with the other hand. It may not be the spinner though.
How do I know this, because I can do the same thing with Stern and Bally games. I'll touch the siderail and touch the spinner, and it may fire off a pop bumper, cause the game to tilt, etc. It all depends on the game. I know that if I touch the left spinner in Kiss and the siderail, the game will tilt.
I would double check the wiring on your spinner and / or the diode. You may have a break in the line that feeds the spinner or the diode is bad (less likely).
Quoted from hisokajp:i wanted to replace the contact on one of my project spinner switch so i ordered some from PBR. Looking at them they are really small so my assumption that would be like a rivert to install seems wrong... has anyone replaced switch contact before and has recommendation on how to install them?
If you have a pair of Sargent 1026-CT or 1028-CT, the end of them crimp contacts well. https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/products.asp?cat=80
Quoted from slochar:Likely, but logically it shouldn't have. Meteor, Galaxy and Dragonfist all have some issues with the previous ram contents in regards to the sound effects IIRC. I doubled checked the seawitch code and I'm not specifically clearing the sound register memory at bootup, so it's nothing special there.
If you put the original roms back in does the wave sound work? If so, likely just clearing the audits fixed it. After looking through the code on how audits are updated, it doesn't make sense the old saw that everyone says (me included) with garbage in the audit can cause issues. The routines would actually just correct anything that's wrong. (The audit would be wrong in terms of tracking stuff for instance, but would be correct in that it would have BCD numbers where there were previously hex.)
No routine yet in the classic stern games (and I've dipped into every one at this point) depends on the value of something being returned from an audit increment. Bad visuals during adjustment/audit display in self test, sure, but nothing game-logic wise. The actual memory locations for the sound registers are just after the audits, but also in between is the # of players in game, and sometimes the currently up player.
Oh, and as far as the mod on the rom itself goes, Seawitch is one of the classic stern games that I don't really think needed much updating. I did add the 2 suggestions that someone asked for re: the standups and the looping, but the rest of the code is pretty much a perfect early solid state ruleset. It even has the bonus collect thing that players seem to over-ly shoot for on games and nicely it doesn't reset the bonus like some of those do. The spinner counter is nice but the spinner isn't as juicy to me on SW as on other games.
Galaxy definitely has an issue with the sound when crap is in the memory. I just worked on one a couple of weeks ago, and the BG sound was funky or not starting on ball one, until I cleared the memory.
Quoted from TheLaw:Indont now with those 'merican flag drops...wtf?!
Excellent use of non-forever postage stamps!
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:Hello All - I have a question and looking for an opinion. I need new LED displays for a Star Gazer build I'm doing. I think I've settled on the color (blue). What is everybody's favorite brand these days? I also remember seeing a company that made a PCB display board that had mounting tabs incorporated into the board. It was cool because it eliminated the need for display trays. I can't seem to find them anymore. They might have closed up shop. I guess it doesn't matter because I have a set of display trays.
The closest looking ones to the originals are the Pinitech units!
Quoted from Alan_L:What's a brick bottom?
Here's a customer's SW that we worked on years ago - https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2089&picno=53443&zoom=1
Quoted from Alan_L:I'm looking to perform the upgrades on Service Bulletin #11 to my Wild Fyre SB-100, 2nd Generation sound board.
It calls for the addition of a resistor and a 3.3uf 6 volt Tantalum capacitor. Are these Tantalum caps below? If not, what is the difference in this application?[quoted image]
I won't make modifications to the Pinwiki anymore, AL!!! 
I leave them all for Hibler now!
Yep. 48V comes into any Stern -100 or -200 or Bally -17, -35, or -133 at J4 (bottom left connector) on the MPU board.
Quoted from slochar:The wico ones were grey I have several nos ones I got years ago.
I think de units were blue but not 100% sure on that.
DEs were blue.
Quoted from slochar:I got the Hot Hand as a "best offer $150 or over" way back when. I offered him $170 even though there were not takers at $150.... just seemed like the fair thing to do.There was very little interest in classic sterns at the time. I've had all of the mpu200 production games except Ali and Iron Maiden at some point and I wish I'd kept some of them for the pricing they're at now, but I'm fooling myself that the first time Cheetah or 9 Ball hit $3k I wouldn't have sold it instantly.
I offered a friend dragonfist and mars trek as a package deal for $1800 and he didn't take it. I REALLY wanted to get rid of Mars Trek but he didn't want it. He ended up paying over $3k for his DF.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/mpu-200-working-boards
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Harrisburg, PA