Tommy how did you do the standup targets? I've got the repro plastic faces from bigdaddy, I just haven't looked into what to combine them with very hard. I've got just about everything to do this or QS, I am excited.

Just stand up switches and brackets from pinball life. I’m holding off on quicksilver until this summer.

Has anyone here taken a Stern chime unit and converted it to work in a Williams game? I am mainly wondering if there are any 24v coils that are the same size as the Stern coils such that you can just swap them out. Otherwise, I could see drilling new holes for the coil stops to accommodate the size of a 24 coil like a A2-26-1300.

How many of the longer ones do you need? We have a few that are NOS like that. We tons of the shorter style. They would be $3 ea. + S/H

I've never done it, but the WMS reel coils should be very close in bobbin size. I think they may be B26-800.

I just got to thinking this morning: we're approaching a point where our beloved classic Sterns will nearly be reproducible, brand new. As evidenced by a number of ambitious individuals on this thread, donor cabs + wiring harnesses + new playfields has been sufficient to convert some of the less desirable titles into beautiful new SG, QS, and more.

Following progress around the forums, it seems we're nearly at the point we'll be able to build these games *new*, though piecemeal.

Here's a new transformer from Homepin: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/homepin-official-thread-pinball-parts-machine-progress/page/87#post-5955243

New cabinets are here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/reproduction-classic-stern-cabinets-now-available

Third Coast Pinball seems to be the go-to for new wiring harnesses.

All new boards and displays are available from a number of sources, as well as playfields.

The only pieces left to the puzzle are game-specific parts, namely drop target banks (but I'm sure there's others in not thinking of). Even those seem to be coming along in this thread. Outside of that, i could see ball guide sets becoming available eventually as well. To my knowledge, many other targets and assemblies are available except kicker/slingshot arms.

Of course, there's still many other challenges, I'm sure (Catacomb bagatelle, for instance) and the chance of Viper or Iron Maiden and some others being remade seems slim due to low demand and more game-specific parts involved.

I'm sure I'm overlooking some important things, but i feel like we're headed in the right direction. I'm excited to see the day when we can buy (and build!) "new" Classic Sterns!

That day has been here for awhile. There are lots of people who have done it at this point. I know of someone who is building Fathoms as well, having the drop target mechs built even. Someone else on this forum has built MM, TAF, AFM, and others. It is all possible, just have to decide if it is worth the time and effort.

I've seen original source from other makers and the comments aren't as informative as you'd think. Comments are really just reminder notes for the programmer, and sometimes they don't even put them on every line. The really informative ones are where they explain what each subroutine does at its entry point. The Bally discs that were being sold on ebay are an example of how uninformative it is from today's standpoint - you have to refigure out the stuff anyway.

At this point I can read it in the compiled hex code, and about 25% of 6800 opcodes as well. The only thing that might be different that what others can do right now is that I have a modified pinmame where the disassembler not only saves the 6800 code but automatically puts the hex code on a commented line above it, which makes it a ton easier.

The bonus ball Cheetah is a small hack but it's done in 6800 as I didn't know enough about pigs at the time. I should probably revisit that. I have the 'normal' sound Cheetah disassembled/commented already and I was rolling in the 'alternate/proto' rom changes into it into a unified source. That's going kind of slowly.

I think it's neat from a hacker standpoint to modify the stuff to run on the original unmodified hardware.... I'm considering calling all releases going forward "Flight 2000 1981" instead of the current trend of "Flash Gordon 2021", "stars 2020" etc.

That was one I saw on one of the coil lists that seemed like a candidate. I actually have a Williams score reel, with that coil, coming the mail today!

I am currently restoring a Hot Hand (first Stern SS), and it appears that the SB100 is causing multiple problems upon power on. Is there a replacement board or is the only option a rebuild kit?

Really? I have yet to see a classic Stern built that has not been the result of parting out something else to some extent. And it's sad. Look forward along with frunch to being able piece together from new parts.

Replacement isn't out yet, but I am aware of one that is near ready for sale.

-Hans

In some cases people are sacrificing games that could be made fully functional, in order to build a SG, QS, etc. In other cases people are using donor games that can't reasonably restored to fully functional. For example I bought a Hot Hand that had planking on at least 50% of the playfield, almost all of the colors in the cards is missing, etc. I could spend a lot of time and effort to find a good playfield, backglass and plastic set to restore the pin, but it'll cost more to do that than the pins worth. My other option is to part it out and someone can use cabinet for a pin restore, and other parts can be used for a QS/SG build, etc. That pin will be used to convert to a SG, QS, etc.

Yeah, I'm remembering being in development in the 90s. We had some of the cheekiest comments ever.. but I guess being in the east, and in that earlier era, perhaps employees had less leeway anyway. Comments from that era can give a good idea of the company culture etc. Unfortunately, with the tools and eyes on everything now, I suspect you can't get away with it anymore either...

At this point I can read it in the compiled hex code, and about 25% of 6800 opcodes as well. The only thing that might be different that what others can do right now is that I have a modified pinmame where the disassembler not only saves the 6800 code but automatically puts the hex code on a commented line above it, which makes it a ton easier.
The bonus ball Cheetah is a small hack but it's done in 6800 as I didn't know enough about pigs at the time. I should probably revisit that. I have the 'normal' sound Cheetah disassembled/commented already and I was rolling in the 'alternate/proto' rom changes into it into a unified source. That's going kind of slowly.
I think it's neat from a hacker standpoint to modify the stuff to run on the original unmodified hardware.... I'm considering calling all releases going forward "Flight 2000 1981" instead of the current trend of "Flash Gordon 2021", "stars 2020" etc.

Definitely. Yes, also interested in anything with regard to Cheetah. The prototype rom with that glorious bass tone is phenominal. I'm quite fortunate that Cheetah was the first pin I acquired a while back now .

The rules are pretty strong except for that bonus that can be exploited. Curious on your thoughts for the dream resolution? I always figured something like completing the 5 sequence again etc might even be enough, as it could then be up to the operator to make sure the game is set up with some difficulty if you have players who could exploit the bonus (which quite frankly is not a easy feat for many).

Food for thought: TCP is a one man operation who has a day job.

Is this little bumper supposed to be here on Hot Hand, or did a previous owner put it there to make the game friendlier?

20210305_235337 (resized).jpg

Not supposed to be there. see:
https://www.ipdb.org/files/1244/Stern_1979_Hot_Hand_Playfield_Parts_Diagram.pdf

https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=1244&picno=73770&zoom=1

But honestly, if you like it, leave it. An operator is akin to a game master in an RPG. You want to have the difficulty set just right for the audience to keep them playing. Little things like this can entice people to nudge and see that they can save the ball.. this is a big part of pinball which is not always appreciated.

Just as a follow up, if anyone is interested, I made the chime unit conversion happen. I pulled the N-31 2000 coils. I swapped in B1-26-800 coils with two big washers and spring washer per position. The 24v coils were smaller so I filled the gap with washers. Now I have chimes in my Williams 3-6 multipin to play Hot Tip.

IMG_7926 (resized).jpg

I have a stern Flight 2000 and I just rebuilt the right flipper with a kit and it is now much weaker then it was before the surgery on it. It had a J25 500 coil and I replaced it with what the manual called for a J25 475. Also the flipper travel seams shorter then the right side. No idea what is going on. Any ideas. The EOS switch is closed till about halfway of the flipper travel.
Any ideas?

Isn't the EOS switch to be closed until the end of the flipper stroke? If it closes early, the power shuts down, yes? That could be why it seems weaker.

You want the EOS to open during the last quarter to eighth of the travel. But if the flipper travel is shorter are you sure it was the right kit? Not sure where you purchased but I have had PBR send me the wrong kit more than once.

Make sure to file the new switch(es)! There's usually some coating or film on it that needs to be filed off for better contact. Also make sure the eos switch blades have a little tension against each other when closed.

I usually do a "tapa tapa" with the hammer on the contact nipple.
I have over the years have had loose contacts to several EOS leaf switches.

Yes. He needs to check the length of his flipper plungers. There are 2" plungers and 2 1/8" plungers. This will give different travel arcs for the flippers.

I ordered the kit from PinballLife the plungers are 2 1/8 and match the length of the old plungers. (I take it to measure the plunger you measure the whole plunger?) The EOS switch starts off closed and opens up about 3/4 of the travel of the flipper. The new switch now has been filled, seams maybe a little better. Ok on flipper travel, on the old coil that was in the game the sleeve has an inset so the side with the ring sets flush with the coil face. The new coil does not have that. Does anyone know if I should have 2 inch or 2 1/8 inch plungers?

I did have to order 2 new brackets that everything attaches to as the coil stop screw holes are warn and do not hold the stop tight. It was this way when I got the machine. But was worse then expected after getting into it. The brackets should be in later this week.

You can use longer screws and lock the coil stop down with longer screws and the use of nuts underneath. The disadvantage is that you have to remove the flipper and the bracket to remove the coil stop. It is not convenient but will get you by in a pinch.

I think Stern used the 2 1'8" plunger, but not 100% sure. I would need to disassemble a flipper to make sure.

The farther you can push that EOS switch backwards to delay it opening will get you more powerful flippers. I like power and set the EOS to open at the last possible moment; But too far back and not enough EOS gap will burn up a coil.

"on the old coil that was in the game the sleeve has an inset so the side with the ring sets flush with the coil face. The new coil does not have that."

Not understanding. Can you put up a pic?

Here is a photo of the old coil the new coil

C88F43B8-5997-4C38-AC92-780ECAC1BBAB (resized).jpeg

EEB92C84-B80E-47A1-BA31-F74F8300FE24 (resized).jpeg

The old coil looks like a Penn-ray coil.

If anyone has one of these Stern shooter rod plates, please PM me. Also looking for Stern Knocker bracket or knocker assy, as well as a couple original coin door carriage bolts. Cheetah I am restoring came in pieces as a parts machine & apparently those items were not with it.

IMG_20210314_205726 (resized).jpg

I'm fairly certain that a Bally knocker bracket will interchange with no issues.

Most hardware stores with stock the coin door carriage bolts you need; You may have to file off some ID markings and then you paint them to match.

If you have no luck finding a shooter rod plate, one can made easily enough.

Gatecrasher Sells backglass trim and if I remember correctly he also sells carriage bolts.

Anyone know if he Penn-Ray coils are still made?

This wont change the amount of flipper travel, only the plunger length and the thickness of the coil stop.

EOS switches are not preset when you buy them, they need to be adjusted for closed pressure and to have an 1/8 inch gap at full travel. If you adjust them for more closed pressure this will make them open up later in the travel stroke and more powerful.

Ok here are some photos of the flipper travel. The right flipper is the problem.
So now I think the past owner traded out the plungers for longer ones maybe. And my thinking behind this is the old plunger stops were loose and worn and u could not tighten them down where they help the coil tight. And they were getting to much flipper travel so they put in the slightly longer plungers??
The way it is now with the right flipper u can’t catch the ball as it will roll off the flipper.

8FAA96C5-2039-463D-A580-A2334B6652E6 (resized).jpeg

CBB22EA6-D289-4A7D-BD66-C492E8AEE3CD (resized).jpeg

To me the right flipper looks correct. The left flipper looks like it has too much travel from worn parts.

Remember ball traps aren't supposed to be easy.

After more research, I do not think the flippers are in the proper resting position. So I will adjust that when my new brackets arrive and I rebuild the flippers again. There is/was a lot of extra play because of the plunger stop on both flippers was so sloppy.
This is true on trapping the ball but I like easier then harder.

He does, but they are for a Bally, which used smaller heads than the Sterns. Every one I've found from hardware store etc is slightly different in the size of the head. I may just end up replacing the entire set to have a new matching set. I'm only missing 2.

I was a Machinist for 16 years, so I can make a shooter plate, but I think owner would prefer original Stern part if we can locate one. Waiting on CPR PF, so we have time to locate stuff.

There is a bracket that the flipper comes to rest on, this bracket can be bent one way or another to slightly increase or decrease the flipper travel. Use this as a final adjustment to match the left and right flipper travel to be the same. When you do this you will have to reposition the bats resting position again.

He sells the stainless steel carriage bolts used on your side rails. I don't know where else to buy the SS bolts unless I buy 100 of them. The coin door just uses the standard zink plate bolts.

Your left flipper looks to be the most accurate movement.

The plunger measures 2.10".

IMG_5900 (resized).JPG

The clamping bracket that holds to coil solidly can be loosened and tightened. Be careful how to loosen these 2 screws. The factory bracket uses 2 #6 screws that screw into two tapped holes in the bracket. The complete assembly you see here is a Pinball Life unit. The 2 screws feed into 2 locknuts and if you back the screw out too far the lock nut falls off---now I have to remove the entire assembly from the play field so I can reinstall the lock nut

You can set your EOS to whatever position you want. This one is out the on the edge and set for hard hitting flippers. If you want less powerful flipper then move the EOS switch blades closer to the center position of the plunger stroke.

Hey slochar , Finally made it to my friends to pick up the ROMs. My ALI was masked roms, so my first jumpering.. that's fun.

Anyway, it's in.. WORKS! Thank you very much for making this happen.

I'll get a proper gameplay video together, but for now, here is the teaser:

Is there a reason that classic Stern pop bumpers don’t have a capacitor on the leaf switch? It seems to me that capacitors are pretty common on rollover switches and even Bally jet bumper leaf switches.

Hmmm, not a very good sustain on the bell? But at least it works..... not bad for a first pass at it.

Now, I'll go back and reenable all the stuff that dip 8 jumps out and you can see how that plays (j/k but maybe....)

Note: Stern's cpu boards are clocked at a different frequency than Bally's.
----- Stern's cpu software runs on a different platform organization than Bally's.
----- Stern's bumpers are a different design than Bally's.
------ In essence, the two manufactures have very similar properties and yet,
------ they very differently in others.

Well, here's a overview and a gameplay video of an Ali that I managed to get going.

Incorporates the bell ringing mod, and a decent quick game I managed to catch on video. (Link in the description to skip to about 12:50 for the actualy gameplay without me blabbing about how Great Ali is )

That is really neat. What a great mod. Thank you for posting.

Sadly, Penn-Ray has been gone since the owner was killed in a motorcycle accident at least 10-12 years ago.

Jim

great vid!

Has anyone experimented with implementing a sound set for an early stern? It would be something special to incorporate Ali's voice into this one.

"What's my name???"

-mof

Does anyone happen to have part number for the Stern chime unit grommets? The grommets for the Bally chimes appear to be too big.

Gott_Lieb Thanks for that info and the memory. I was a Penn Ray customer. Salesman’s name was Bob Lapinski. Funny story:
Back in the early ‘80’s a bar location I serviced was robbed. The thief or thieves took among other things some rolls of quarters. The next day at a nearby convenience store a local police officer watched some young boys slugging a video game with rolls of quarters. What caught his attention was they played so much that they had piled up a number of used quarter wrappers onto the top of the machine. He took them and called the bar owner who in turn called me to ask where I got them. I explained that my wrappers were printed “Penn Ray Sutra” and were not available locally but were special order. Boom, nailed them!

From a Casino Parts manual.
3 Tone Chime Assembly
1) pg.19 item 7 [ #6095 Rubber Grommet ]