The flipper bats you have are the same "design" that was prevalent at the time
the game was made. Same "design" that was used on Bally games.

Yep, as per manual 25-475/34-4500. Moving to a 450 would be an easy fix you’d think.

It would be better to find to fidugre out why your setup is not working for you since it is the same setup most of the rest of us has. Maybe you are just power hungry ?

You definitely have me scratching my head. You video looked like your flippers were hitting hard.

I agree completely. I don’t think I’m power hungry (maybe I am), I just have the distinct feeling something isn’t right.

I sent Ron (Slam Tilt) a message last night to confirm his setup, as it’s his streams that really show the power difference. His setup is factory like mine. Other than the usual, EOS gaps etc, he did mention the flipper bats and bushings. Although they are both new on mine, it did trigger the memory of them grating a little as the flipper was inserted in, not dropping in smoothly. There was no grating once in place, only when inserting, so there’s a chance the flipper bat had damaged the bushing.

Flynnyfalcon I wonder if you could wire up your flipper coils hot straight off the rectifier board using some jumper wires. This would eliminate (or demonstrate) a bad / weak connector or solder joint. Did you first try to jump the e.o.s. switch as well to see if the flipper strength improves? Sorry if I missed everything you’ve tried.
On a side note, I’m thinking If your voltage is correct then you would need to test your current. Does anyone know how much current a flipper coil draws? If your current is low or “off” then I’d be looking for a connector fault. You might simply try holding one flipper in for a length of time and checking the wiring connections in that circuit for a hot spot. You find a hot spot, you’ve found a problem.

I was having similar issues with coil strength a couple years ago and it was the power coming into my house that had an issue. every game I had just felt weak.

Your flippers are not dragging across your play field, are they? I have to space all of my flippers with a #14 brass washer to get them up and away from the play field surface.

I had one of the nylon bushings go out-of-round and start binding the flipper shaft. I had to replace it.

I have heard of that happening before. not with pins. With something else.

yea like you could play the games fine but they were missing that snappy feeling. was like that on TNG,fireball classic,sea witch, LAH, and STpro. I found out when I bought ST nib and shit was like the others, called electric company and they said some shit was fucky at the pole.

No, I'm using the supplied nylon washer which given a few mm's clearance.

I'll look into it this weekend. A Stars turned up at my doorstep today... I reckon I'll be busy fiddling with that for while

With all this flipper Coil talk, my QS has the j-25-500/34-4500 in it and yes the Manuel states the 475.

Question is if there is really a difference between the too and worth the time and effort in removing it as it seams to me to be okay with the 25-500 model I currently have in it?

Also what are really the differences between the flipper coils of j-25-500/34-5050, j-25-475/34-5000 and j-25-500/34-4500? Is there a site that may explain?

I have the QS and Stars; and am wondering if I can us the same in both (j-25-500/34-4500) even though Manuel May differ.

My understanding of coil ratings is, and I’ll use the Quicksilver flipper coils as an example. 25/475-34/4500

The 25/475 relates to the power side of the coil: the 25 is the gauge wire, the 475 is how many windings.
The 34/4500 is the hold part of the coil: 34 gauge, 4500 windings.

The lower the first two numbers, the stronger the power. I think that’s it. Coils can be substituted, but will of course effect gameplay.

Then you can do what several are wondering about. Put that -6 into the Stars pin and see what happens.

Haha, there’s a thought . Already got the Stars up and running. Geez the flippers on Stars make the flippers on Quicksilver feel like canons. Not sure what I’m worried about anymore

3060B440-7CE8-406C-8DD0-8D90B202C1D4 (resized).jpeg

is that what those are for? I have always use a metal washer when i needed by bat a little higher... ah!

I picked up a Stern Stars but unfortunately it was missing the lockdown bar. Searching this post it seems like this isn't a unique problem. I'm at work so I haven't had a chance to read through all the discussion on this but it sounds like there are some alternatives (?) to replacing the adjustable pin type bar.

Nevertheless I'll throw my hat in the ring as well if anyone has a extra pin style lockdown bar they're willing to sell or have seen up for sale anywhere.

Thanks

Flynnyfalcon Might wanna check the flipper relay on the SDB, reheat the solder joints and clean and inspect the switches for proper gap. Could switch the SDB to check if there is any difference. As far as swapping in another transformer because it has a higher amp rating is probably going to give you the same effect as running down to your basement and swapping one of the 20 amp circuit breakers for a 30 amp breaker and expecting the lights to be brighter. Up your voltage to 130 or more and your lights will definitely get brighter - and fail sooner. Coils on the other hand can probably take it. Just for fun you could always try swapping in a 1970’s era Bally bingo transformer and supply the coils with 50 volts and get ‘em slamming. You’d need a second transformer for the 12 volts and you’d have to convert the displays to LED. Might be fun though. You’re dealing with a combination of mechanical and electrical issues which will both need restored - flippers and connectors rebuilt. I can see we need a Mythbusters approach to this subject.

Thanks 29, appreciate your thoughts, I’ll take a look over the weekend.

So I read through a lot of the previous "lockdown" posts and understand that the tab style lockdown bars are compatible between Stern and Data East. My receiver is a post style receiver.

Has anyone tried to interchange a Data East or Chicago Coin post style lockdown bar with a early stern post style receiver? From the few CC and DE lockdown bars I've found for sale (finding stern post lockdowns is currently impossible) they appear to be the same as the Stern.

Also does anyone have a up close photo of the post itself? I have found a DE bar but it doesn't have the posts so I'd have to figure out how to get a post but need some idea of what they look like. The Gottlieb posts that Marco sells look correct but was hoping to get a reasonable verification before I go the route of buying a unposted lockdown and separate posts.

Thanks

Are the older Chicago coin em lockdown bars the same as the early mpu100 classic Stern lockdown bars?

I think so. Not 100% sure, but I think so. I cannot see Gary Stern being frivolous with his money.

Chicago Coin and early Stern lockdown bars are not interchangeable. However, both the skin and the liner are. The studs are mounted at the same width but about 1/2” to the front on the CC so that they fit into the receiver directly over (on top of) the front of the cabinet like Gottlieb. The CC bar could be converted by relocating the studs about 1/2” forward.
Look at rhe early Stern bar on the left, you can see where Stern used the CC liner and the hole where CC placed the stud.

Early Stern Lockdown Bar (resized).jpeg

Here’s a better pic. The early Stern bar is on the bottom. Notice the hole about 1/2” to the top of the stud. That is where CC placed their stud. The Chicago Coin and early Stern receivers are not interchangeable and the CC receiver cannot be modified to work in an early Stern.

6B7DEF11-4B17-436D-A392-DD8E767A0316 (resized).jpeg

No, the pins are positioned in a different place. CC is towards the player, while Stern is away from the player or vice versa. They are in the center spacing though.

just have to watch Ebay daily. They pop up every month or so. They are not cheap. I just got $100 for a extra pin style I had laying around.

The nut plate the stud screws into is spot welded on the receiver plate. Is there any reason that the spot welds cannot be drilled out and the nut plate moved to the empty hole? Any weld shop with a TIG set up could re-weld the nut plate into a different position.

Or perhaps the entire piece the nut plate is spot welded to could be drilled from the shell and rotated 180 degrees. I believe the chrome platers will drill the associated hardware from the shell and bond it back on after the plating is complete.

43941af2581ce9a49b905e089eb7d205c1bb1084.jpeg (resized).jpg

Here’s the Chicago Coin Rail next to the early Stern. The Stern is on the bottom in the first pic and on the right in the second. The CC rail could absolutely be converted. Probably should have a machine shop do it though since a fixture would be needed to ensure proper fit.

86AA190D-F50C-4276-9947-FE8FB0FE22AD (resized).jpeg

A07F65C4-0E67-487D-BBE3-4B25151B57AD (resized).jpeg

Machine shop is a good idea. Those spot welds really need an end mill bit to be cut away and repositioned correctly.

The only way any of this could be considered cost effective is if there is no other option; And it starting to look like it is slowly coming to not many options with regards to lockdown bars.

Thanks everyone for the help. Very informative. I'm a lonnnggg ways away from playing this machine (stars). It sat in a Missouri basement for some time where the humidity appears to have rusted a lot of the metal components so I'm stripping those out and tumbling them. Then I'll have to work on the playfield where the inlanes/outlanes have some paint chipping. Basically I have time to wait but it sounds like all of us need to hop on any lockbars that are out there.

No found it in eastern Washington. But the guy brought it back from MO, was his father in laws.

He gives this story that it was picked up by his father in law with bill clinton from the jersey shore.

TBF there is a tag in it that says “jersey shore” so if anyone played a stern stars at the shore back in the day I may have it!

Vec-Tor, I must thank you for offering this info. I replaced my coil and the sticking flipper issue went away---for a few games. A couple of days ago this flipper started sticking in the up position again. As soon as I pressed the credit button the flipper went into "locked up" position. I mean it was locked hard; I could not manually break the lock.

So, I replaced the plunger and coil stop. Like magic. No more problems. If you had not given this info. I would still be racking my brain with this issue.

Interesting in that the end of the plunger and the the button on the coil stop have matching marks that looks like they were trying to weld theirselves together. I don't think I can get a decent picture of these marks.

Thanks again.
=======================================================================

EDIT: Well, the problem came back again. I have a new solenoid coil, new plunger, and a new coil stop. I was playing ng a few highly spirited games and the flipper locked up again. Turn the pin off and back on. Flipper locks up. Finally I disconnected the flipper wire connector on the SDU to disable the flippers. I fired the pin up and hot plugged the flipper wire connector at the SDU. The flipper returned to behaving normally. I don't know for how long it will behave.

I'll keep you all posted.

Check you cabinet switches. I’ve seen them get pitted to the point the get stuck together after a flip but not always and can come apart with vibration sometimes too.

This is a condition as motioned above by @Whridlsoncestood.
If the cabinet flipper switches are open and the flippers stay energized, then you have some kind of short to ground.

Hmmmmm. Galaxy is gonna blow my socks off now

image (resized).jpg

I think that's a 'feature,' as mine does exactly the same thing. I actually kinda like that you can't just pound the ball up there. You've got to take a little pace off the ball if you want it to score. I've also had it rattle off the kicker arm so hard it rebounds all the way out and doesn't score. I've only had mine for a few weeks, but I am totally hooked on this game. maybe my favorite of classic Stern's I've owned so far.

Cheers!
Bob

same on mine as well, looks like the right side plastic is wider to slow down the ball into that mech.

What is the sensitivity on these speakers.? Typically measured at 1watt/3 feet.? That will help understand. I would shoot for something over 90db unless yo u are upgrading the output transistor to the 13watt one. I think stock is roughly 4 watts.

I was just basing it off this
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/new-6-inch-speakers-found

It doesn’t blow my socks off I was just joking but figured I put so much new crap in I figured why not

It was the flipper switch. As soon as it happened again, I shut down and raised the play field. The two switch contacts were stuck together. They are pitted badly. I filed them but they are still sticking. The contacts will be replaced tomorrow.

Thank you both.

does anyone have a file to print, for the stern 16b-6 transformer wiring instructions that is stapled behind the transformer?

Should find it here

http://www.pinballrebel.com/pinball/cards/

omg yes, thank you. I forgot Inko did those! I just started to scan and clean it up so this will save me hours!

You're welcome.
It took me some hours to complete though.

Peter
http://www.inkochnito.nl

Digging a bit deeper I found one more bit info on the mysterious 16B-8 transformer.

You can see a pic in the link below of one that sold. I am unable to save the image itself to put up here.

It appears to have a more of less regular Stern pinball rectifier board plugged in except their is no F6 input line fuse. Other fuses appear to be the same values as a regular board.

As their is no F6, maybe the cab had a line fuse for this? Wiring colours on the transformer taps look to be different too as well compared to a -3 or -6 & an extra tap the -6 does not have.

All the Stern arcade games from this time seemed to have different transformers/power supplies to pinballs & this, even the Stern bowlers/shuffles had a -6 transformer from a pic I saw. So still really have no idea what this could be from.

Possible could be used I guess if the correct voltages required are present?

The seller (Hillbilly pinball) of this transformer is a member here. markpin2013

I bought a pin from Mark a couple of years ago & had it shipped to Australia. Maybe he knows what it was out of?

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/stern-pinball-machine-16-8-1895695609

Got the images for you..

stern-pinball-machine-16-8_1_b7a0544620d386f1898d377d38ca33be (resized).jpg

stern-pinball-machine-16-8_1_b7a0544620d386f1898d377d38ca33be2 (resized).jpg

stern-pinball-machine-16-8_1_b7a0544620d386f1898d377d38ca33be3 (resized).jpg

I need a 5-bank drop target for a Cheetah build, and someone said Cheetah used a 5-bank memory style. Is a memory drop bank one that requires you to hit the drops in sequential order, like Nine Ball? IPDB lists seven classic Sterns with 5-bank drop targets.

Which of these is a memory drop target bank, like Cheetah?

Freefall
Hot Hand
Lectronamo
Split Second
Stingray
Trident

I want to say non of the above.
Fight 200, Nine Ball may be Trident.
Trident has memory coils!!!!