Pinball Resource is the only parts store I know of that has small gold plate contacts.
When I rebuild Gottlieb pop switches I can clinch the points using the tip end of a .156 contact clinching tool.

Yes. His flipper switches have the larger contacts. I don’t know why he does not sell them

I should’ve mentioned I have lots of contacts and heavy switch blades I’ve bought from Steve, however he’s out of light switch blades for me to make new ones. Anyone have tips of replacing the contacts on old switch blades without damaging the blade in the process of removing the old contacts?

1A) You need a Dremel Tool with a sanding disc attachment.

1B) You may be able to use one of Dremel Tool's grinding stones to grind the backside of the contact away.

2) Drill a small shallow hole into a piece of wood that is just a little bigger diameter then the head of the contact and just a little deeper than the head of the contact.

3) Place the head of the contact face down in the shallow hole you drilled

3) Using the Dremel Tool sand off the back side of the contact. DO NOT sand into the blade.

4) Set the contact face down into the small hole you drilled.

5) Using an ice pick, or a small drill bit, or a center punch, lightly tap the ground off center of the contact and it should fall from the blade.

And it is out.

I have used tape to hold the blade still and used a jewelers file to file down the back side of the contact...
Remove the contact just as cottonm4 listed.

Part # CU-CONTACT is what Steve uses on all of his new EOS switches. They would work fine for cabinet switches too.

http://pbresource.com/pfswitch.htm#common

I was looking right at those when I made my order. Don't ask me how I missed them. Other than the obvious "I had my head up my ...", I don't know.

Looking for some feedback.

When I got my Dragonfist it had 2 little pins in the circled holes that the flipper bats rested on. Same pins as under some of the plastics only shorter.
Is it an old Stern thing to have pins stay in these holes or was that just a hack?

Cheers

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Stern playfields has the pins as flipper adjustments. When flippers are in position, you can push
the pins back down into the playfield. It was a neat way to adjust flipper alignment.
Bally/Williams used playfield dimples.
As far as playfield plastics are concerned, if under the plastics
and are about an inch above the playfield then it is used twofold.
[ penny nails ]
1) To hold up odd shaped plastic pieces.
2) To hold rubber rings in odd shapes... avoid lamp sockets, switch functions.
[ steel pins]
1a) As ball deflectors. eg.bottom arch corners.
2a) As ball baffle to key shots. eg kickout hole in a long shot.
3a) As ball deflectors to drain lanes. eg. outlanes Bally Silverball Mania.
4a) As kicker protector/anti ball stuck/ anti top plastic intrusion to slingshot kicker function.
Et cetera.

No, they had roll-pins sunk into the wood, in which you would insert a small dowel or toothpick to align the flippers.

Yes the later models had the roll-pins... the early EM games did not...
Bally playfields would not have the roll-pins tell Williams bought them out.

I remove the metal pins from my machines, i feel in the long term it marks the flipper bats...

He sells the larger contacts. I have bought many from him. Perfect match for 77-87 games.

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Leave them. Provide stability for the links and paws which are supposed to not be over tightened.

Correct, but you said "Bally/Williams", which is current taxonomy for WMS/Midway age games, not EM games..

So just wanted to make sure noone reading this was working on a 90's game, saw the roll-pins, and decided to remove them or some such.

My galaxy had small nails but they seemed like they were bridging the gap from plastic inlane to the flipper and just holding the flipper up :/

Some people take the pins out, some people leave them in...doesn't really matter.

I take mine out; I was cutting my fingers up when waxing the play field. But it leaves the problem of how to adjust the flippers and keep them even while your are adjusting, so I made a little clamping and alignment tool so that I can adjust them at any angle that I want. And I am able to adjust them for the same angle on both sides.

This is Catacomb after I had just got done adjusting the flippers, only to lower the play field and see that were not even on both sides. Drat.

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So made up a couple of clamps so I can adjust the flippers where I want and keep them lined up as I get them locked down.

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I used some polycarbonate plastic and some wood strips along with a couple of clamps from Harbor Freight. I can adjust them to where they are even and clamp them in place.

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And then when I lift the play field to tighten up the pivot levers, the flippers stay put. After I get them tightened up, I remove the clamps and remove my adjusters and the flippers are lined up exactly where I wanted them to be.

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There is also this 3D printed flipper angle adjuster that looks like it could also comer in handy.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1644154

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Seems like a lot of work to me

On my Stars the posts go in from the bottom which is interesting.

does anyone know where these drop target decals are available from?

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TractorDoc sells a lot of classic Stern drop target decals, including this set for Stars.
https://pinside.com/pinball/market/shops/1169-doc-s-pinball-shop/02155-vinyl-star-decals-for-drop-targets-blue-and-red-stars

It does matter. The pins are there to keep stability on a flipper hit, link and paw stability. The paw in a classic stern is soft metal. The pins support that. They should be left in. The game play is better with them in as the factory intended.

I am having a hard time getting my head wrapped around this. I don't understand at all.

When I push the flipper button, the flipper swings up and the plunger slams in to the coil stop. That slamming action, IMO, is going to place as much stress, if not the most, on the flipper link and pawl shaft as the plunger slams to a stop first, leaving the flipper link and pawl pin to "catch up".

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The impact points on the upswing are going to be the flipper link at the roll pin and the flipper link at the pawl pin.

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When I release the flipper button, the flipper and associated assembly parts are going to fall of their own weight with some spring assistance. And the stopping point is the flipper stop that stops the link when the flipper button is released.

I am not seeing how a flipper adjustment pin placed in the play field is going to be stronger than the impact action from a spring that is returning a flipper to rest position. Other than being a positional flipper place holder, I cannot see an adjustment pin adding any strength to the flipper assembly.

You gotta help me understand.

Agree to disagree. Not a big deal though

I'm talking about resting position. Yes in action the pin has no bearing. So as I think maybe from a % of times the flipper paw takes impact it is a small amount in resting position.

I like to think a dead bounce is also better off a flipper bat resting on the pin.

The pin might also partially act as Sterns version of a Bally/Williams snubber wire..

This is why I leave them in.

That is also why I leave them in.

Are the pins really at the intended resting position of the flippers? Here I've had my flippers set up without enough angle all this time.

Actually, they're not. I've been told more than a few times that the factory used a separate jig for aligning the flippers. The pins/holes were there to hold the jig. Though I've never seen any pictures to support this theory.

I've also been told they were used for some wireforms that held the flippers in place during shipping, and are completely unrelated to flipper alignment. Unfortunately, I doubt there are any NIB classic sterns out there to verify.

The same roll pins are present in Williams machines too, as well as Bally of the same era.

-Hans

Back in the Stern Electronics club. My pin collection started with Wild Fyre, which I'll always have a soft spot for. I've also owned Pinball (which I was smart enough to sell to a friend, so I still get to play it,) Dracula, Flight 2000, and Magic. Now I'm enjoying playing my latest addition, Galaxy. This looks and feels like a long term keeper. I rolled it third day I had it, but have only broken 200K a couple times since. I love the sounds, and definitely hear Asteroids and Star Castle, perhaps among others. I have wondered about licensing of those sounds, as I recall, Stern only did a couple of vids? (I looked it up, they actually did 28 games, not all released under the Stern name.) Of course, they were notorious for stealing Bally tech. Wonder if they did the same with sound ROMs...

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Big game in PA. Go get it!

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Yes. People make the mistake of aligning the flippers to be straight with the flipper return lane guides. It makes the flippers centre of the playfield centric where there's nothing to shoot for. It might be right for DMD games but not for these Sterns.

I'd be dubious about that info - how were operators around the world supposed to align the flippers without this special jig when the pins ideally served the purpose?
All the Sterns I remember playing in the early 80's had the flipper bats against the pins.

Bally never used those pins on their early solid state games.

Shoot, you're right on that. With the Bally games people always thought you needed to align the flippers with the biff-bars.

I know there were a lot of variations on those locating holes though. I know there were also manufacturers that had them off the ends of the flippers too.

Definitely one of those things I'd be nice for a designer to chime in on and solve the question with some authority.

-Hans

This is a mistake I have made. 40 years ago in the arcades and bars all the pins I saw and played had the flippers lined up with the lane guides. Honestly, the flippers just do not look right with the tips drooping down.

I worked for an arcade company between 78-83. I picked up our new games from the distributor and set them up (with other person). We had 5 huge locations. Our classic stern's came with the flipper on the pin. There was no jig. I set up many out of the box: Seawitch, Big Game, Meteor, Galaxy and a few others. I can say without a doubt the pin is where the game plays optimum given the shots on the games. Now it's your game if you have one. Do what you want. Honestly....Its just STERN JUNK

Heh, well I'm opposite. To me they don't look right when the flippers are straight with the return lanes and they sure don't play as well as factory "droop".

I think Williams from that era aligned their flippers to be straight with the return lane guides. Been too long since I've been near one, maybe someone else can comment.

That would be Bally
Medusa's a perfect example with the flipper inserts under the flippers:

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Depends on the game. Flipper alignment is one of those things that you can tweak on a game to your individual liking. As long as the shots are in your sweet spot it's all good.

The only classic stern to me that has the droop is stargazer, and it's really intentional on that game as you shouldn't be able to cradle the ball. The rest of them seem ok on the pins.

Viper has a lot of droop too and it’s needed. If you don’t have droop when I designer intended you get really hard shots on the end of the flippers that shouldn’t be or way too weak. Only stern I think needs droop added that isn’t very prevelant from the factory is nugent. The flipper angles are all off on that game. 75% of the shots off a flipper just hit the pops up the middle. . The spinner shot is way off the very tip of the flipper and it barely has enough power to make it to top lanes.

What was it like opening these up as NIBs? Pretty much the same it is today?

So I finally got the guts to hook up the Star Gazer I have been building and we have..... some success.... and some failures.

Game powers on, doesn't catch fire or blow fuses even. Going into tests all lights, displays, and coils seem to work fine. Then I start a game and I quickly realize we have all sorts of switch issues so time for some trouble shooting.

If anyone else out there has done the whole build your game using Shawn's wire harness, or just has some really good detailed pictures of how all of your switches are wired up on Star Gazer I would really appreciate some help, please and thank you! -Tommy
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You are going to have to divide and conquer. I am still in the process in my build. The lights wired and the switches are wired. I have not done the coils yet. I found Shawn's instructions easy to follow; Maybe I can help. Maybe I can't.

The switches are all governed by the white wires with the red, blue, black, green stripes, etc. You need to isolate if the reluctant switches are on the white/red wire line or the white/blue line, etc.

What kind of problems are you having?

Game boots. If I press start button game starts, but immediately a credit is added (so coin switch is registering), trough kicks ball to shooter lane and points just start scrolling up.

If I go into test mode all lights work, displays work as they should, and coils fire as they should. If I press the button to go over to lowest switch registering, 10 is registering...but when I check the switch physically it looks correct according to schematic and Shawn's instructions and is in fact not touching. If I press switches below 10 like the start button or the tilt bob they register. Also when I lift the playfield to inspect it my spinners register correctly as switches 4/5/9. I will need to investigate closer to see if all of the switches under 10 register or not. It was around 1 AM when I finally got the whole thing together and trouble shot until about 2AM before calling it quits.

I did convert a Stern Pinball for this project, but I completely rewired the coin door. I suspected that was what I messed up, but then I tried another Stern coin door, this one from a Big Game, and had the same issues. At that point I called it a night.

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I used Shawn's harness to wire up my playfield. I'm not using the cabinet or backbox harness yet, but I've tested my playfield in a Stern cab and everything is working. I can take pictures. Let me know what you need.

Check every switch in that row and column as switch 10. Check all the diodes on the switches as well. Make sure nothing is bent or touching. Sounds like a possible switch matrix short. See if you can find another switch in game that does not register perhaps? If we have two malfunctioning switches we know if we can narrow it down to two other switches being the culprit.

That sounds like a diode gone bad. What happens if you swat the play field with your hand? Does that stop the points from rolling on up?

Electronics troubleshooting is not my strong suit. I think I would go to the connector for the switch wires at A4-J2 and remove one wire, say the white wire with red stripe and remove it from the connector and fire up the pin and see if the scoring problem goes away. If not, replace the w/r wire and pull the white /blu wire and do another check. And then keep doing that for all of the switch wires on A4-J2, including the Y/R out hole wire.

Hopefully, pulling one of these wires will eliminate your erratic scoring problem and help you isolate where you need to look.

I have a general where to start diagnostic question. My machine won’t boot and I’m a bit confused.

Today I replaced the two capacitors on the solenoid driver board.

The machine booted and I went directly into a solenoid test. I recall that once it got to the the drop target reset coil the mpu locked up.

I turned the machine off and when I turned it back on I get a solid led.

The battery has been replaced on the original mpu. The solenoid driver board is from a Bally machine.

I’ve read a bit on the mpu flashes described on the pinwiki. Any suggestions on what might be the (not so) obvious problem? My sdb connections all look correct and the work is pretty good on the two capacitors.
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If I start a game several are registering incorrectly but I can’t tell what they are registering as. In test I can’t test anything above switch 10 because of how stern diagnostics work. I’ll test hitting the playfield but I do suspect a short somewhere sadly.

If you disconnect switch 10 it’s still registering correct? Are the switches provided with the wiring harness or did you have to supply and install them yourself?