(Topic ID: 225496)

Stern Electronics Club (1977-1984).


By Mitch

2 years ago



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#3601 44 days ago

Can anyone help? I turned my Quicksilver on today for the first time after a year long resto. I've converted to LEDs and added flicker eliminator kit. GI seems good, but so many of the inserts are flickering like crazy. Any thoughts? LEDs aren't anything too fancy, but they weren't cheap.

#3602 44 days ago
Quoted from Flynnyfalcon:

Can anyone help? I turned my Quicksilver on today for the first time after a year long resto. I've converted to LEDs and added flicker eliminator kit. GI seems good, but so many of the inserts are flickering like crazy. Any thoughts? LEDs aren't anything too fancy, but they weren't cheap.

Did you hook up the kit properly? If it's reversed, the LED will flicker.

#3603 44 days ago
Quoted from CanadianPinball:

Did you hook up the kit properly? If it's reversed, the LED will flicker.

How do you mean reversed? As in it's on the right terminal but back to front?

I would have thought they'd be keyed so it could only go on one way.

#3604 44 days ago

My boo boo, the flicker eliminator kits power cable was connected incorrectly.

#3605 44 days ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

One other thing I would like to hear about with this pin. When I bought my BG Resto repro Big Game back glass he sent me one made of 3/16" thick glass and claimed this is what his Big Game had.
I have owned 2 Big Games and I have several other classic Sterns and I have talked to pinside BG owners but no one has a 3/16" back glass. So I am curious what the glass on this one is like.

It's the thinner glass on the one's that I have had. That's like 5 or so. Never thicker.

#3606 43 days ago

Aside from a more finished look with what I believe is a different jet bumper housing, should I expect any jet bumper responsiveness difference between these two assemblies if the leaf switches are set to the same gap, new spoons, etc?

65E9B572-08A3-4ACD-ADA0-B30E008B07F9 (resized).jpeg6FEA7C2E-ACEF-4EC2-86D1-E89B76D944B0 (resized).jpeg

#3607 43 days ago
Quoted from EEE:

Aside from a more finished look with what I believe is a different jet bumper housing, should I expect any jet bumper responsiveness difference between these two assemblies if the leaf switches are set to the same gap, new spoons, etc?
[quoted image][quoted image]

I would not think so.

#3608 43 days ago
Quoted from EEE:

Aside from a more finished look with what I believe is a different jet bumper housing, should I expect any jet bumper responsiveness difference between these two assemblies if the leaf switches are set to the same gap, new spoons, etc?

Not as long as you have the plastic pop rings.

Did anyone ever weigh the difference between the plastic pop style parts and the metal parts to see how much lighter they are? I've used the plastic rings in the earlier assembly like you pictured, you just have to use slightly different parts for mounting.

#3609 43 days ago
Quoted from EEE:

Aside from a more finished look with what I believe is a different jet bumper housing, should I expect any jet bumper responsiveness difference between these two assemblies if the leaf switches are set to the same gap, new spoons, etc?
[quoted image][quoted image]

The problem with Nineball is the Bally / Stern Solenoid board is not made to have 2 separate signals at the same time. So every now and then you get a dead pop bumper because the targets are sending signals to reset and or knock down. The only way to solve this is by using a Gottlieb Pop bumper board on Nineball and make the bumper hot all the time. This fixes dead hits. The game is notorious for this problem, if this is your concern.

#3610 43 days ago
Quoted from slochar:

Not as long as you have the plastic pop rings.
Did anyone ever weigh the difference between the plastic pop style parts and the metal parts to see how much lighter they are? I've used the plastic rings in the earlier assembly like you pictured, you just have to use slightly different parts for mounting.

Many years back someone did. There is quite a difference and it's also not metal on metal which gives some resistance benefit. If you pull windings from the pop bumper coils and add the plastic ring you can make the games scream lightning.

#3611 42 days ago

Was going to post in the Quicksilver club thread, but thought I'd have a better audience here.

So I've just finished my complete restoration, after a year long rebuild. I connected cabinet and playfield a couple of days ago, most issues have been worked out, but a few have me stumped. Hopefully you learned folk can help.

So the issues...

- When I start a game, the right return lane light "lites left spinner" is already lit.

- Right and left return lane switch (for right & left spinner) do not register.

&

- The 2 top middle lanes "I" & "U" do not register even when shorting the switch.

Wire harness was put through the dishwasher, but otherwise is unchanged from pre rebuild where it worked fine.

Wiring and diodes appear to be fine. Unsure where to look next.

Screen Shot 2020-08-10 at 6.56.36 pm (resized).png
#3612 42 days ago
Quoted from Flynnyfalcon:

- When I start a game, the right return lane light "lites left spinner" is already lit.

IIRC the inlanes should always be lit if the corresponding spinner isn't.

At any rate go into lamp test and if it blinks on and off with all the other lamps, it's fine.

#3613 42 days ago
Quoted from slochar:

IIRC the inlanes should always be lit if the corresponding spinner isn't.
At any rate go into lamp test and if it blinks on and off with all the other lamps, it's fine.

Hmm.... just had a look at Bowen's tutorial and yep you're right, both inlane lights should start on.

So the left inlane/return light not being on is actually the issue along with the inlane/return and "I" & "U" switches.

#3614 42 days ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

Kerry at Mantis has received the Stern sling shot lever that I sent him. He is aware. We wait.

I have heard from Kerry. He is trying to estimate demand for the sling levers.

I told him that most of the MPU-200 games use this lever. I think also that all of the MPU-100 games also use the same kicker but I am not positive on this. Can anyone verify the MPU-100 games?

One of the parts he will have to hire to be made. If he is only going to be able to sell 100 kickers they will probably not be cheap.

I need some to get some idea of how many of you really want to step up for some of these kickers. You might as well give your price limits.

Are you a buyer of these levers at $10.00 each? How about $20.00 each? What about $25.00 each? Where you all at?

Feed me.

#3615 42 days ago

$10 no brainer.
$20 is still fair if you need one.
$25 honestly the question is more aboot needing one then shotgun buying all new for each game. So it isn't crazy.

#3616 42 days ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

I have heard from Kerry. He is trying to estimate demand for the sling levers.
I told him that most of the MPU-200 games use this lever. I think also that all of the MPU-100 games also use the same kicker but I am not positive on this. Can anyone verify the MPU-100 games?
One of the parts he will have to hire to be made. If he is only going to be able to sell 100 kickers they will probably not be cheap.
I need some to get some idea of how many of you really want to step up for some of these kickers. You might as well give your price limits.
Are you a buyer of these levers at $10.00 each? How about $20.00 each? What about $25.00 each? Where you all at?
Feed me.

$10 dollars - I would replace on my current games.
$20 dollars - If I needed them. Might keep 1 set in stock. (I have some on parts playfields, loose though)
$25 dollars - Starting to feel it in the wallet

Thanks for doing this.

#3617 42 days ago
Quoted from Classic_Stern:

$10 dollars - I would replace on my current games.
$20 dollars - If I needed them. Might keep 1 set in stock. (I have some on parts playfields, loose though)
$25 dollars - Starting to feel it in the wallet
Thanks for doing this.

Same.

#3618 42 days ago
Quoted from Classic_Stern:

$10 dollars - I would replace on my current games.
$20 dollars - If I needed them. Might keep 1 set in stock. (I have some on parts playfields, loose though)
$25 dollars - Starting to feel it in the wallet
Thanks for doing this.

Same. I have 3 on galaxy!

#3619 42 days ago

I can confirm I’ve got them on Trident, Hot Hand, and Wild Fyre for the MPU100 contingent. Can anyone confirm if they go back as far as Chicago Coin?

I’m pretty much in line with everyone on that pricing. $25 would be too much though. Same reason I can’t justify those Swinks repro plastic pop rings. Can’t someone PLEASE do those cheaper?

#3620 42 days ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

I have communicated with Kerry at Mantis. This morning I sent him a sample sling lever. Now we wait and see what he says he can do and for how much.

I’d buy 6 or more depending on price. There are quite a few Classic Stern’s that I maintain.

#3621 42 days ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

$10 no brainer.
$20 is still fair if you need one.
$25 honestly the question is more aboot needing one then shotgun buying all new for each game. So it isn't crazy.

These price points are reasonable to me.

#3622 42 days ago

If anyone is looking for a stars with the stars2020 code and digital audio, Im looking to trade one in Chicago.

https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/100626

#3623 42 days ago

Thank you all for responding. It is numbers game. I used to buy aircraft parts. I could buy you one bolt for $10,000.00 or I could buy you 10,000 bolts for a dollar each.

So far, I could around 15 pairs the might sell. So 30 units. That is not a big number of sales.

Obviously, I don't know what the magic breakeven number is for Kerry not do I know his appetite for risk is, but I will relay this information on to him. What I can say is that I feel from reading his emails that it is something he would like to do.

#3624 42 days ago

I have a Nugent and a Stars and I love them both.
Looks like I may have an opportunity to purchase a (Stern) Freefall.
Any good? Value?
Terry.

#3625 41 days ago

$20 is fair. Sure would dig this getting done.

#3626 41 days ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

Thank you all for responding. It is numbers game. I used to buy aircraft parts. I could buy you one bolt for $10,000.00 or I could buy you 10,000 bolts for a dollar each.
So far, I could around 15 pairs the might sell. So 30 units. That is not a big number of sales.
Obviously, I don't know what the magic breakeven number is for Kerry not do I know his appetite for risk is, but I will relay this information on to him. What I can say is that I feel from reading his emails that it is something he would like to do.

If he had them available on his website he might sell hundreds over several years. Something to consider over just the initial sales when they first get made.

#3627 41 days ago
Quoted from pinballlife:

I have a Nugent and a Stars and I love them both.
Looks like I may have an opportunity to purchase a (Stern) Freefall.
Any good? Value?
Terry.

Terry FreeFall is be very cool. Check out YouTube David Yopp made a cool tutorial video of the rules for that one.

#3628 41 days ago
Quoted from pinballlife:

I have a Nugent and a Stars and I love them both.
Looks like I may have an opportunity to purchase a (Stern) Freefall.
Any good? Value?
Terry.

I played Freefall in the Stern Pro Circuit finals in Chicago a few years ago. Very cool game with quite a different layout. I would buy one if one came up local to me at a decent price. What is that price? I don't know. $1250? They only produced 1300 of them and they don't seem to come up for sale much.

#3629 41 days ago
Quoted from LOTR_breath:

If he had them available on his website he might sell hundreds over several years. Something to consider over just the initial sales when they first get made.

He might. Or he might not. I do not know what his risk parameters are. And I am pretty sure he will look at all the angles before making a decision.

What about you? Are you a buyer for some?

#3630 41 days ago

I have one more question. Kerry and I have been discussing this:

Pinball Life already sells a bracket that will work with the Stern lever. I told Kerry that I could see no reason for him to reinvent the wheel and make something that already works---with a minor modification. One hole in the Pinball Life bracket has to be filed/ground out to allow the Stern lever to fit.

Are you all cool with that or does he need to make the bracket, too. I see no reason for it, but that is my opinion only.

Where are you all at on this bracket biz? Because the one in the picture will work.

Screen Shot 2020-08-10 at 9.48.51 PM (resized).png

#3631 41 days ago

I would have him make the brackets. The originals will be tapered with wear and people will want replacement parts that look original. I’d buy some of both parts.

#3632 41 days ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

He might. Or he might not. I do not know what his risk parameters are. And I am pretty sure he will look at all the angles before making a decision.
What about you? Are you a buyer for some?

Yes, I would buy a set for my Lightning. Only Classic Stern I own right now.

#3633 41 days ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

I would have him make the brackets. The originals will be tapered with wear and people will want replacement parts that look original. I’d buy some of both parts.

Thank you.

Actually, that pin for the bracket will probably not be cheap. It is a machined part that Kerry said he would probably have buy 1000 pieces of to make it happen. Say he only sells 100 of them. Now one will have to cost the price of 10. Consider also that the bracket from Pinball Life is Cad plated. Maybe the cadmium plating would not be necessary but if cad plating is required, then the price will get boosted.

I don't know the kind numbers Kerry is working with. But I know this is not like shopping at Walmart. I'm just trying to figure out the cheapest way possible to make a lever happen.

Anybody else for wanting the original style bracket?

Oh, and this. If the levers do come, it sounds like he would be making them of stainless steel. And they will more than likely be more solid and better quality than what Stern produced.

#3634 41 days ago
Quoted from pinballlife:

Looks like I may have an opportunity to purchase a (Stern) Freefall.
Any good?

Not for me, if pass.

#3635 41 days ago
Quoted from pinballlife:

I have a Nugent and a Stars and I love them both.
Looks like I may have an opportunity to purchase a (Stern) Freefall.
Any good? Value?
Terry.

Freefall will play differently than both of those games. Most people knock it for not having a direct shot into the ball lock, so it’s somewhat random in getting multiball going. If that bothers you, then you’ve been warned. Other than that, I think it has nice action, especially with the spinners and is fun to bang around on. Art package is decent enough and it’s an attractive game. Really nice example might go between $1500 to $2000 in my opinion.

#3636 41 days ago
Quoted from Classic_Stern:

$10 dollars - I would replace on my current games.
$20 dollars - If I needed them. Might keep 1 set in stock. (I have some on parts playfields, loose though)
$25 dollars - Starting to feel it in the wallet
Thanks for doing this.

Same. I'd be down for a couple on hand no matter what, but obviously at $10, I'd buy maybe 4 or so to have on hand.

HA - semi double post days after

#3637 41 days ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

I have one more question. Kerry and I have been discussing this:
Pinball Life already sells a bracket that will work with the Stern lever. I told Kerry that I could see no reason for him to reinvent the wheel and make something that already works---with a minor modification. One hole in the Pinball Life bracket has to be filed/ground out to allow the Stern lever to fit.
Are you all cool with that or does he need to make the bracket, too. I see no reason for it, but that is my opinion only.
Where are you all at on this bracket biz? Because the one in the picture will work.
[quoted image]

Cotton, those brackets look pretty close. Where on the PBL bracket, what is needed to modify?

IMG_9757 (resized).jpg
#3638 41 days ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

I have heard from Kerry. He is trying to estimate demand for the sling levers.
I told him that most of the MPU-200 games use this lever. I think also that all of the MPU-100 games also use the same kicker but I am not positive on this. Can anyone verify the MPU-100 games?
One of the parts he will have to hire to be made. If he is only going to be able to sell 100 kickers they will probably not be cheap.
I need some to get some idea of how many of you really want to step up for some of these kickers. You might as well give your price limits.
Are you a buyer of these levers at $10.00 each? How about $20.00 each? What about $25.00 each? Where you all at?
Feed me.

Here are my thoughts, I have 4 classic Sterns waiting to get restored.

$10 dollars - I would replace on my current games.
$15 dollars - If I needed them. Might keep 1 set in stock. (I have some on parts playfields, loose though)
$20 dollars - Starting to feel it in the wallet

I am fine with the pivots from PBL if they work correctly with the levers.

#3639 41 days ago
Quoted from northvibe:

Cotton, those brackets look pretty close. Where on the PBL bracket, what is needed to modify?
[quoted image]

The Bally bracket is shorter and causes some interference. One hole has to be opened up.

ce23364245be0b98bf948e2064f656abea33edba (resized).jpg

Quoted from dothedoo:

I would have him make the brackets. The originals will be tapered with wear and people will want replacement parts that look original. I’d buy some of both parts.

I just got an email from Kerry. What I can say is that he respects the wishes of those who prefer originality. So, IF he decides to step up and make the brackets they will be of the original style. When he gets his numbers ran he will be advising how much they will cost and then we go from there.

#3640 40 days ago
Quoted from SergioJ:

Freefall will play differently than both of those games. Most people knock it for not having a direct shot into the ball lock, so it’s somewhat random in getting multiball going. If that bothers you, then you’ve been warned. Other than that, I think it has nice action, especially with the spinners and is fun to bang around on. Art package is decent enough and it’s an attractive game. Really nice example might go between $1500 to $2000 in my opinion.

Grabbed the machine and set it up today. Had to replace the rectifier board. Lionman (Doug Manley) spent most of the day getting this thing 100% working, but it is good to go now.
Playfield is in average condition. Backglass is an 8.5. Cabinet is a 9, maybe even a 9.5 for it's age.
Overall I am happy with the purchase. I will most likely sell it as I really don't have the room for it. It was for sale locally so I grabbed it, sort of an impulse buy.
Terry.

#3641 40 days ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

$10 no brainer.
$20 is still fair if you need one.
$25 honestly the question is more aboot needing one then shotgun buying all new for each game. So it isn't crazy.

I'm sure I could make these for about the same price at the WMS ones. Not sure how long it would take to go through 1000 pieces (pretty much my minimum quantity if I want to be able to offer decent pricing). However, if Kerry confirms he is moving forward with this project I won't step on his toes.
Terry.

#3642 40 days ago

For what it is worth...
Game Plan and Stern are almost exactly the same.
IMG_0001[1] (resized).jpg
A close look at the fulcrum pivot brackets.
IMG_0003[1] (resized).jpg
and
IMG_0002[1] (resized).jpg
Yes, the three primary holes line up....

#3643 40 days ago
Quoted from SergioJ:

Freefall will play differently than both of those games. Most people knock it for not having a direct shot into the ball lock, so it’s somewhat random in getting multiball going. If that bothers you, then you’ve been warned. Other than that, I think it has nice action, especially with the spinners and is fun to bang around on. Art package is decent enough and it’s an attractive game. Really nice example might go between $1500 to $2000 in my opinion.

Freefall is a pretty decent game. I like the rules... the way the bonus works, the way you get extra ball, and the spinner can be worth a ton of points. I restored mine over the winter and was going to bring it to TPF, but, well, maybe next year.

Multiball is really frustrating, though. As you said, locking balls is random and spotting all letters to light multiball is very, very difficult. And it never fails, once multiball begins, a ball or two will land back in the ball lock and be relocked. So multiball is shortlived.

The layout is cramped up top, I think. There isn't much space between the rollover lanes and the top arch. And with the tramway up against the bottom of the pop bumper, there is no action between the pops. I modified the area around the tramway a little bit on mine so at least there's a little bit of pop action. It helps.

If I could make rules changes, I would make the left target bank spot a letter and remove the relock during multiball. Also, you get more points for shooting the left target bank in order, but I never use that strategy because it's not much of a reward. I prefer to shoot for extra ball instead, by leaving the middle target standing. But I thought adding a rule to spot all letters if the targets are hit in order would be a nice reward. It's not easy to do and there's still the random luck of locking balls, so multiball would not be a gimme.

So just a few minor changes and I think it would be a really good game.

E176DC41-33F4-4612-B489-A3C376CA6181 (resized).jpeg

#3644 39 days ago

Pop Bumpers.

I like snappy pop bumpers.

I really like the Stern/Data East style of pop bumpers. I am slowly working to towards have this type of plastic pop base on all my pins. I got tired of standing on my head trying to adjust the pop switches. With the plastic base, and if you molex your pop wiring, you can have the pop in your hand in 5 minutes. And now that the switch is out in the wide open for easy adjustment. Your decision of whether this is worth the expense to you. I like the convenience.

With this set up, it is easy to make sure the pop spoon is directly centered below the spike on the pop skirt. A pop skirt that is not centered will affect your pop action. And it is easy to see how much gap you have on the switch.

I like setting my switches/switch gaps real close together on the inlanes, outlanes, and rollover. I want make sure they activate. But trying to make real close gaps on a pop switch, I have learned, is a mistake.

The problem with real close gaps on a pop bumper is that the switch will close and activate the pop ring too soon and you get a lousy kick out on the on the silver ball. Having learned from this mistake, I like to set that pop switch so that it will not activate until the skirt is pushed all the way down. This allows the ball to make full travel into the skirt/ring area where it gets kicked out with a vengeance.

This is mostly just rambling stuff but if it helps one person get their pin set up with snappy pop bumpers, then I'll take the "he's rambling".

IMG_4181 (resized).JPG

#3645 38 days ago

Are there any flipper experts in here? I've rebuilt my Quicksilver flippers but they lack power. I've rebuilt plenty of flippers previously, so I wasn't sure if it was simply me comparing to my more modern pins, or I'd forgotten about their lower comparable power. I've been through Vid's guide and anything else on Pinside labelled "low power flippers classic stern/bally" etc but it's made no discernible improvement.

Along with the rebuild kit, I replaced the coils, sleeves, bushings and flipper bats. Switches gapped to 3.2mm give or take a mm or 2. Silicon spray on the flipper bats and plunger. All linkages appear to move freely. I added molex plugs for convenience.

Vid of gameplay below. I compared with Bowens tutorial and in his, there is definitely more power on his.

0 (resized).jpg1 (resized).jpg
#3646 38 days ago
Quoted from Flynnyfalcon:

Are there any flipper experts in here? I've rebuilt my Quicksilver flippers but they lack power. I've rebuilt plenty of flippers previously, so I wasn't sure if it was simply me comparing to my more modern pins, or I'd forgotten about their lower comparable power. I've been through Vid's guide and anything else on Pinside labelled "low power flippers classic stern/bally" etc but it's made no discernible improvement.
Along with the rebuild kit, I replaced the coils, sleeves, bushings and flipper bats. Switches gapped to 3.2mm give or take a mm or 2. Silicon spray on the flipper bats and plunger. All linkages appear to move freely. I added molex plugs for convenience.
Vid of gameplay below. I compared with Bowens tutorial and in his, there is definitely more power on his. [quoted image][quoted image]

The gap should be half that (a 16th of an inch or 1.6mm). The point at where the switch opens should be as close as possible to the end of the stroke - You don’t want to break the contacts too soon and rob yourself of power. It looks like you have a bit of over-travel in the closed position for a tight contact. What voltage are you reading at the coil lugs?

#3647 38 days ago

Also I Have found in some instances that the EOS has a light coating of sealer on them when replaced, just give them a slight sand to eliminate anything being on them

Also I think the EOS is opening to early just looking at your pictures

#3648 38 days ago
Quoted from Flynnyfalcon:

Are there any flipper experts in here? I've rebuilt my Quicksilver flippers but they lack power. I've rebuilt plenty of flippers previously, so I wasn't sure if it was simply me comparing to my more modern pins, or I'd forgotten about their lower comparable power. I've been through Vid's guide and anything else on Pinside labelled "low power flippers classic stern/bally" etc but it's made no discernible improvement.
Along with the rebuild kit, I replaced the coils, sleeves, bushings and flipper bats. Switches gapped to 3.2mm give or take a mm or 2. Silicon spray on the flipper bats and plunger. All linkages appear to move freely. I added molex plugs for convenience.
Vid of gameplay below. I compared with Bowens tutorial and in his, there is definitely more power on his. [quoted image][quoted image]

I like to re-clinch the contact points, just to make sure that the points have continuity.

#3649 38 days ago
Quoted from Completist:

The gap should be half that (a 16th of an inch or 1.6mm). The point at where the switch opens should be as close as possible to the end of the stroke - You don’t want to break the contacts too soon and rob yourself of power. It looks like you have a bit of over-travel in the closed position for a tight contact. What voltage are you reading at the coil lugs?

I’ve got 45-46v on each lug, re gapped to roughly 1.6mm and given the contacts a light sand. No discernible improvement.

#3650 37 days ago

I closed the gap a little further and I recon it has improved it. I still think feels a little under powered. Is 45-46v sound about right? Voltage drop from the connectors?

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