Ali
Stern Electronics, 1980
Big Game
Stern Electronics, 1980
Catacomb
Stern Electronics, 1981
Cheetah
Stern Electronics, 1980
Cosmic Princess
Stern Electronics, 1979
Dracula
Stern Electronics, 1979
Dragonfist
Stern Electronics, 1981
Flight 2000
Stern Electronics, 1980Quoted from TheLaw:It s just 2 screws from the cabinet....as long as you have the metal piece for the cabinet they go through
Quoted from hisokajp:that metal piece
[quoted image]
Do we know what screws? if no part number, is there a thread and length?
Is there a bushing used or just the bee hive and plunger? It came with a gottlieb plunger :/ so that may have to do for now.
Thanks!
Quoted from slochar:I rebuilt all my F2K posts behind the 5 bank using studs and Tnuts but I also stopped using the PBL ones because they kept snapping. I'll have to take a look at what studs I did end up using, or if used longer Tnuts, or maybe I recessed them - I don't remember because it was 15 years ago or so that I did it. They aren't loose though, so apparently something came out ok. My inclination is that there's more than 2 threads holding these on.
I likely used the studs from a motordome playfield as I had just picked a populated scrapper PF of that title up at pinfest for $20. This is before people realized that a $20 populated playfield (even with the plastics removed) has about $300 worth of hardware and parts on it. (Ah, the good old days)
I'm pretty sure that there's lots of sizes of the studs with differing threaded portions. PBL's AFAIK are the modern Stern variety only, with the integrated washer at the top, vs. the older style from the 80s/90s that are just the captive nut.
Follow up to my own post, the PBL stern posts end up having about 1/8" of threads in the commonly available T-nuts, which is not enough. Tall classic Stern posts are about 1 7/32" tall with my kind of sloppy measuring. (Hold the rule next to post in my hand and eyeball it). The nuts are listed on most sites as having 1/4" of threads available.
The machine thread modern Stern post is 1" 7/32" below the washer, which yields the 1/8". Not enough.
Random sampling of posts from the 80s/90s that I pulled off parts playfields and cleaned up/used:
The shortest vintage post is from a Bally game, it's copperish in color, and the distance below the nut is 1 15/32 - so almost 1/4" longer than the new stern. 3/8" would be the meat into the Tnut. That's probably adequate for some applications where there wouldn't be a rubber pulling the post horizontally.
Then a couple random ones I pulled out measured even longer - 1 19/32" and 1 21/32". Either of these would be ideal.
https://www.marcospecialties.com/control/keywordsearch?SEARCH_STRING=post+stud
Here's all the post studs Marco carries, they aren't cheap.
https://www.pinballlife.com/search.html?Search=post%20stud
Here's the pinball life studs, again, hard to tell which one would work if any. I don't think the modern stern ones would be appropriate here, though, as I still had a couple of those around and they are by far the shortest.
Threading a 2" bolt with a spacer of a nut on it through a Tnut is probably the best if you want the carriage bolt look but without the carriage bolt spinning issues, but with the added strength of the Tnut. Of course, the inconvenience here is that if you teardown in the future, you have to back all those off the bottom as well as removing the nut from the top.
You can definitively get machine studs that will fit into Tnuts with the posts though, you just have to be careful what you're using. I don't know what pinball resource carries in this department because other than the stern posts I got from PBL (specifically for this F2k swap way back when, and I ended up not using them because the shear strength was less than the vintage studs) I've never had to buy them because of the parts supply from the parted out PF's. If you follow cottonm4 's advice and make sure the stud threads are flush or protruding a little I think you're ok, having the threads protrude more than a couple isn't going to add any strength to the connection.
In related trivia, everyone thinks split washers, star washer, or nylock nuts don't back off in high vibration environments is encouraged to search youtube for fascinating engineering videos of why this isn't true. I was surprised as well - this is apparently why aviation nuts that MUST NOT MOVE use some kind of wire or pins to hold the nuts in place - cotton would know more about that.
Continuing with my proclivity to make molehills into mountains, I dug a little deeper.
1) Since I own a DE Robocop I thought I would check out the source. That was a big fat raspberry. DE used the shorter posts which allow for the studs to come all the way through to the bottom.
2) Next method is called destructive testing where you have to destroy the part in question to see what is really happening. A trip to the belt sander was employed.
You might not be able to see it clearly in the pic but there are 3 three threads biting. The 6-32 nut I have added only has 3 threads biting so this set up will probably be fine for pinball machine. It is not the end of the world if one comes loose. You will not fall out of the sky. I will add that loose posts wobbling around will cut into your play field paint.
There is this caveat:
1) You can't really know how many threads are biting if you cannot see them. 3 threads are probably OK but if you only have 2 threads biting in, I think you are pushing your luck. And unless you are going to do a destructive test you cannot know with confidence, which is the reason aircraft specs that two threads are showing.
I now know that I will be using the screw coming up from the bottom on all tall posts and T-nutting anything that uses a stud. This saves the hassle of stripping a screw hole in the wood. Stripped holes are easy to fix, but I am going onto more positive ways to lock down a post.
As I say this, I understand that I have invested money for tools to take some of this kind of action i.e. making longer screws shorter. If you don't have the tools for making screws shorter you will just have to give it your best shot.
Quoted from slochar:I don't know what pinball resource carries
I got the longest studs I could from PBR. You are looking at one of them.
Quoted from slochar:In related trivia, everyone thinks split washers, star washer, or nylock nuts don't back off in high vibration environments is encouraged to search youtube for fascinating engineering videos of why this isn't true. I was surprised as well - this is apparently why aviation nuts that MUST NOT MOVE use some kind of wire or pins to hold the nuts in place - cotton would know more about that.
It is called safety wire. Safety wire is used when you have a bolt screwed into a blind hole. Lock washers are not used. On any assembly where a nut is used, the nut will be a special locking nut but no Nylocks, or it will be a castle nut where a cotter pin can be used for positive locking.
Caution: While we are talking about posts, which are not a big deal in the great scheme of things, one of the pins I bought had the back box bolted down with 4 too-short bolts that did not have the protruding threads. There was no way to tell how many threads were holding my back box on. Taking no chances, those bolts went to the trash.
If you are unsure with how your back box is attached to your cab, It is cheap insurance to pull your back glass and reach down inside and feel for protruding threads on those 4 bolts. If you cannot feel the tip of the bolt, if all you are feeling is what seems to be an empty hole, you know what you gotta do.
I am glad that I saved all that hardware from those playfields then if no one is carrying the correct longer posts.
Quoted from cottonm4:Continuing with my proclivity to make molehills into mountains, I dug a little deeper.
1) Since I own a DE Robocop I thought I would check out the source. That was a big fat raspberry. DE used the shorter posts which allow for the studs to come all the way through to the bottom.
2) Next method is called destructive testing where you have to destroy the part in question to see what is really happening. A trip to the belt sander was employed.
You might not be able to see it clearly in the pic but there are 3 three threads biting. The 6-32 nut I have added only has 3 threads biting so this set up will probably be fine for pinball machine. It is not the end of the world if one comes loose. You will not fall out of the sky. I will add that loose posts wobbling around will cut into your play field paint.
There is this caveat:
1) You can't really know how many threads are biting if you cannot see them. 3 threads are probably OK but if you only have 2 threads biting in, I think you are pushing your luck. And unless you are going to do a destructive test you cannot know with confidence, which is the reason aircraft specs that two threads are showing.
I now know that I will be using the screw coming up from the bottom on all tall posts and T-nutting anything that uses a stud. This saves the hassle of stripping a screw hole in the wood. Stripped holes are easy to fix, but I am going onto more positive ways to lock down a post.
As I say this, I understand that I have invested money for tools to take some of this kind of action i.e. making longer screws shorter. If you don't have the tools for making screws shorter you will just have to give it your best shot.
[quoted image]I got the longest studs I could from PBR. You are looking at one of them.
It is called safety wire. Safety wire is used when you have a bolt screwed into a blind hole. Lock washers are not used. On any assembly where a nut is used, the nut will be a special locking nut but no Nylocks, or it will be a castle nut where a cotter pin can be used for positive locking.
Caution: While we are talking about posts, which are not a big deal in the great scheme of things, one of the pins I bought had the back box bolted down with 4 too-short bolts that did not have the protruding threads. There was no way to tell how many threads were holding my back box on. Taking no chances, those bolts went to the trash.
If you are unsure with how your back box is attached to your cab, It is cheap insurance to pull your back glass and reach down inside and feel to protruding threads on those 4 bolts. If you cannot feel the tip of the bolt, if all you are feeling is what seems to be an empty hole, you know what you gotta do.
Why not just use all thread rod, cut it to length, nut it on the top like Stern did, and if so desired, nut the bottom below the t-nut?
Seems like a simple solution, and you won't have to rely on post length anymore. Just cut to length as needed.
Quoted from Gott_Lieb:Why not just use all thread rod, cut it to length, nut it on the top like Stern did, and if so desired, nut the bottom below the t-nut?
Seems like a simple solution, and you won't have to rely on post length anymore. Just cut to length as needed.
How would you hold the threaded rod in place to tighten it? (Or, more specifically, to loosen it, since it might just thread out of the Tnut if the top nut was being stubborn). At least with a machine screw you could depend on the head from allowing the nut to pull it out of the tnut.
The new bolt cut to length seems the easiest to me if you want the original look.... 6-32 bolts gotta be cheaper than threaded rod?
I think it's more disturbing that the threaded studs into Tnuts aren't available except vintage.... I don't think I changed too many of PF's over just Meteor and F2k (and various posts on Big Game that were snapped at a tournament). I know I also saved all the carriage bolts I removed as I'm a packrat.
Quoted from Gott_Lieb:Why not just use all thread rod, cut it to length, nut it on the top like Stern did, and if so desired, nut the bottom below the t-nut?
Seems like a simple solution, and you won't have to rely on post length anymore. Just cut to length as needed.
I have thought about doing that way. There is no reason why that would not work. But doing this exercise I did with the parts yesterday gave me a good feeling with using the screw from the bottom. I can't swear to this but I think the machine screw would be of a harder material just due to the fact that you can take small threaded rod and bend it around a pipe to make a U-bend.
Quoted from slochar:How would you hold the threaded rod in place to tighten it? (Or, more specifically, to loosen it, since it might just thread out of the Tnut if the top nut was being stubborn). At least with a machine screw you could depend on the head from allowing the nut to pull it out of the tnut.
The new bolt cut to length seems the easiest to me if you want the original look.... 6-32 bolts gotta be cheaper than threaded rod?
I think it's more disturbing that the threaded studs into Tnuts aren't available except vintage.... I don't think I changed too many of PF's over just Meteor and F2k (and various posts on Big Game that were snapped at a tournament). I know I also saved all the carriage bolts I removed as I'm a packrat.
To go with the threaded rod you would have to get some Loktite permanent style thread locker, cut your rod to length, and lock the nut on i.e. make your own post studs. The advantage, as I see it, is the threaded rod would always be able to be removed.
With the screw-from- bottom-method, you are always at risk of a nut getting rusted on and having to cut the post with a Dermel the same as with the carriage bolt that started this entire conversation.
A lot of my carriages bolts were trashed just because someone over torqued the nut on top of the post. Over-torquing blew out the threads on the nut and the bolt and there were no threads to unscrew with .
Quoted from northvibe:Do we know what screws? if no part number, is there a thread and length?
Is there a bushing used or just the bee hive and plunger? It came with a gottlieb plunger :/ so that may have to do for now.
the Beehive is the sleeve, the repro i got weren't quite right though, I ended up having to file/sand them a little larger.
all screws look to be #8, bottom two into the cabinet 1/2" and top 2 into beehive 1" long.
Quoted from Chalkey:Would a spot welder get a nut welded on a threaded rod solid enough or is it too thick? If one had a spot welder they'd be quick to produce.
Um, that reminds me of the guy that decided to use a torch to remove the playfield Mylar.
Not a good idea.
Quoted from slochar:How would you hold the threaded rod in place to tighten it? (Or, more specifically, to loosen it, since it might just thread out of the Tnut if the top nut was being stubborn). At least with a machine screw you could depend on the head from allowing the nut to pull it out of the tnut.
The new bolt cut to length seems the easiest to me if you want the original look.... 6-32 bolts gotta be cheaper than threaded rod?
I think it's more disturbing that the threaded studs into Tnuts aren't available except vintage.... I don't think I changed too many of PF's over just Meteor and F2k (and various posts on Big Game that were snapped at a tournament). I know I also saved all the carriage bolts I removed as I'm a packrat.
How often are you pulling posts out of your games? It took how many years / x amount of games before the carriage bolt was removed, right? I didn't think this was a matter of having to remove the post on a regular basis.
All right, don't want to jump the gun and say my drops issue has gone away, but I went in and replaced the springs with tighter/stronger ones, and the targets seem to be locking into place much more solidly than before. No more jiggle when they reset like they used to, just a nice solid *thunk* when they go up. Just played several normal games and they are absolutely rejecting less too. Will let you guys know if they start to fall on the reset again.
Quoted from bbriese:I was getting random drops, especially during bank resets and tightening this gap by loosening the capscrews and tapping the lever until almost snug was what solved the issue. Also manually lift the lever and make sure all 3 drops are being lifted at the same time and that one side isn't lifting too early -- if that is happening loosen one of the cap screws and twist the lever until the lift bar is parallel with the drops. I still have an occasional bricking of the target mostly on a very hard direct shot but i'll live with that over the targets dropping which just ruins game strategy. I never played this game until after restoration so i did not have a chance to see how it behaved with original drops. These are new drops from Marco.[quoted image][quoted image]
Thanks for the tip! I did check this and it seems like the reset bar is touching each of the drops evenly.
By the way, that's a beautiful playfield you have there. Jealous!
Quoted from Chalkey:Would a spot welder get a nut welded on a threaded rod solid enough or is it too thick? If one had a spot welder they'd be quick to produce.
Just get some of the red Loctite. It is cheap and will lock a nut onto a screw or bolt forever. Make your own studs.
Quoted from akm:All right, don't want to jump the gun and say my drops issue has gone away, but I went in and replaced the springs with tighter/stronger ones, and the targets seem to be locking into place much more solidly than before. No more jiggle when they reset like they used to, just a nice solid *thunk* when they go up. Just played several normal games and they are absolutely rejecting less too. Will let you guys know if they start to fall on the reset again.
Thanks for the tip! I did check this and it seems like the reset bar is touching each of the drops evenly.
By the way, that's a beautiful playfield you have there. Jealous!
Quoted from akm:All right, don't want to jump the gun and say my drops issue has gone away, but I went in and replaced the springs with tighter/stronger ones, and the targets seem to be locking into place much more solidly than before. No more jiggle when they reset like they used to, just a nice solid *thunk* when they go up. Just played several normal games and they are absolutely rejecting less too. Will let you guys know if they start to fall on the reset again.
What springs did you use? I’m having a problem with my Stars where one target doesn’t drop enough to move the switch. I can push it down, but I don’t have any idea what’s holding it up. I bought new targets, springs and had the whole assembly plated. I ordered different springs, which are substitutes for the ones in the parts catalog that are discontinued, so we’ll see if that helps. I can’t remember where I got the ones as replacements the first time, but I’m hoping these will be strong enough to pull down the drop the whole way. If that doesn’t work, I was going to see what springs you used. Thanks.
Quoted from akm:By the way, that's a beautiful playfield you have there. Jealous!
Thx! I had some extra quarantine time so did a full machine resto. I was gonna sell it but not so fast....this one might be a keeper and especially challenging with a heavy pf tilt.
Looking for some info I couldn’t find in the schematics for Stingray. Anyone know what is upstream from the transistor that controls the outhole coil? The tech chart says the transistor is Q4, and I’d like to find out if there is a pre driver, and which chip and pin to test.
Quoted from bbriese:Thx! I had some extra quarantine time so did a full machine resto. I was gonna sell it but not so fast....this one might be a keeper and especially challenging with a heavy pf tilt.
It's a great game when everything is working right and you are getting those strikes from the drops. Very satisfying game. I got mine a couple of months ago and will definitely be holding onto it for a while.
Quoted from spandol:What springs did you use? I’m having a problem with my Stars where one target doesn’t drop enough to move the switch. I can push it down, but I don’t have any idea what’s holding it up. I bought new targets, springs and had the whole assembly plated. I ordered different springs, which are substitutes for the ones in the parts catalog that are discontinued, so we’ll see if that helps. I can’t remember where I got the ones as replacements the first time, but I’m hoping these will be strong enough to pull down the drop the whole way. If that doesn’t work, I was going to see what springs you used. Thanks.
Believe it or not, modern Stern flipper springs. They were the only springs I had on hand.. said screw it, tried them out and they are working great. Played the game for literally four hours last night and had zero drops on the bank reset. The drops are rejecting far, far less now too. Who knows how long this will last, but right now the new springs are treating me well.
Quoted from Boise_D:Looking for some info I couldn’t find in the schematics for Stingray. Anyone know what is upstream from the transistor that controls the outhole coil? The tech chart says the transistor is Q4, and I’d like to find out if there is a pre driver, and which chip and pin to test.
Quoted from akm:Believe it or not, modern Stern flipper springs. They were the only springs I had on hand.. said screw it, tried them out and they are working great. Played the game for literally four hours last night and had zero drops on the bank reset. The drops are rejecting far, far less now too. Who knows how long this will last, but right now the new springs are treating me well.
Cool, thanks.
For you Classic Stern lovers out there we’re back with our second series of Stern Electronics inspired Pins! Series 2 is based on outer space and we think you will love them! Great collectors swag, tournament prizes, or giveaways.
Anybody here with a Lightning game?
I'm looking for the instruction cards.
I have one black on white card and one white on black card.
Any cards would help.
Please help me to help others.
Peter
http://www.inkochnito.nl
Quoted from Inkochnito:Anybody here with a Lightning game?
I'm looking for the instruction cards.
I have one black on white card and one white on black card.
Any cards would help.
Please help me to help others.
Peter
http://www.inkochnito.nl
I do but it’s at my location and I haven’t seen it in months.
Quoted from hisokajp:the Beehive is the sleeve, the repro i got weren't quite right though, I ended up having to file/sand them a little larger.
all screws look to be #8, bottom two into the cabinet 1/2" and top 2 into beehive 1" long.
Awesome! Thank you. I’ll hit the hardware store 
Quoted from Inkochnito:Anybody here with a Lightning game?
I'm looking for the instruction cards.
I have one black on white card and one white on black card.
Any cards would help.
Please help me to help others.Peter
http://www.inkochnito.nl
it's packed up in the back of my garage, let me have a look
Quoted from Inkochnito:Anybody here with a Lightning game?
I'm looking for the instruction cards.
I have one black on white card and one white on black card.
Any cards would help.
Please help me to help others.
Peter
http://www.inkochnito.nl
I emailed you a scan of what I had.
Quoted from spandol:I emailed you a scan of what I had.
Thanks for the 12G-2-126-22 and 12G-2-126-22A cards.
I've added them to the file.
I could also use the cards which mention the time bonus award in the first line.
Like this one, but with a card number on it.
Stern_Lightning_12G-2-126-22T (resized).jpgNot sure if this has been shared yet but Pinball Life is now making classic stern side rails.
https://www.pinballlife.com/classic-stern-stainless-steel-side-rail-set.html
I just ordered a set to use on my star gazer build. Let everyone know how they fit.
Quoted from Tsskinne:Not sure if this has been shared yet but Pinball Life is now making classic stern side rails.
https://www.pinballlife.com/classic-stern-stainless-steel-side-rail-set.html
I just ordered a set to use on my star gazer build. Let everyone know how they fit.
HA, I JUST saw those yesterday and thought....weird are those new? nice! hope they work!
What nails are used on the side rails? like 1/2" twisted ones?
Quoted from northvibe:HA, I JUST saw those yesterday and thought....weird are those new? nice! hope they work!
What nails are used on the side rails? like 1/2" twisted ones?
Here is a tip. Forget the nails. Get some #4 1/2" long stainless sheet metal screws. They look nice. It is long shot that you would ever need to remove the rail, but if you ever need to remove the rail you will be glad you used screws instead of nails.
I got the idea from HEP.
Quoted from cottonm4:Here is a tip. Forget the nails. Get some #4 1/2" long stainless sheet metal screws. They look nice. It is long shot that you would ever need to remove the rail, but if you ever need to remove the rail you will be glad you used screws instead of nails.
I got the idea from HEP.
Yep that was my plan
Quoted from cottonm4:Here is a tip. Forget the nails. Get some #4 1/2" long stainless sheet metal screws. They look nice. It is long shot that you would ever need to remove the rail, but if you ever need to remove the rail you will be glad you used screws instead of nails.
I got the idea from HEP.
But vandals will unscrew them and remove the rails and the glass and...! Okay, I need to stop thinking like a paranoid operator. I hate every minute of dealing with those damn twist nails.
Might just be me but the spiral nail heads look much better than a screw. If you are replacing the rails most likely you’ll never need to take them out. On a Star Gazer...original all the way. Just saying.
Quoted from djblouw:Pop bumper cap screws work great.
Well I have a giant box of those thanks!
Quoted from play_pinball:How are those rails different than the Bally rails PBL has carried for a while?
Flipper hole placement is my understanding but I could be wrong. I have a spare new Bally one I’ll check it out tomorrow.
Quoted from cottonm4:Here is a tip. Forget the nails. Get some #4 1/2" long stainless sheet metal screws. They look nice. It is long shot that you would ever need to remove the rail, but if you ever need to remove the rail you will be glad you used screws instead of nails.
I got the idea from HEP.
pan head, or flat head? I think the pop cap ones are flat head.. I have a few nails on my galaxy backing out and bent. figured I could pull those and tap or screw in replacements.
Quoted from northvibe:pan head, or flat head? I think the pop cap ones are flat head.. I have a few nails on my galaxy backing out and bent. figured I could pull those and tap or screw in replacements.
Semi-round head. About same size as a nail head. Screw several into a piece of wood and have ago with the buffer machine. They shine up nice.
Quoted from RoyGBev:But vandals will unscrew them and remove the rails and the glass and...!
Security torx screws would work.
Has anyone used the shapeway reproduction plastic rings in their pop bumpers and had good results? Thinking of using them (reproduction) but do not know how they hold up compared to the metal rings as the originals plastic rings are almost impossible to find.
Quoted from China_Grove:Has anyone used the shapeway reproduction plastic rings in their pop bumpers and had good results? Thinking of using them (reproduction) but do not know how they hold up compared to the metal rings as the originals plastic rings are almost impossible to find.
I’m the one that sent NOS parts to Swinks for reproduction. He included a blue repro set for one bumper when he sent back the original parts.
I installed the repro set in the upper right bumper of Star Gazer, the bumper that gets the most action. It’s held up very well, I haven’t had any problems with it. I really like the color too and am thinking of ordering some to color match my games.
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