(Topic ID: 225496)

Stern Electronics Club (1977-1984).

By Mitch

5 years ago


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There are 11,014 posts in this topic. You are on page 219 of 221.
#10901 28 days ago
Quoted from ArcadeRaid:

My lift bar has been broken on my F2K for at least 20 years. It was held together with zip ties when we got it. A few years back I had to remove them to do some work on the drops. I just put new ones back on. I figure if they held for 40 years it must be a pretty solid field repair. Works like a charm. [quoted image]

Since it is working for you, why mess with success? But it would be an easy fix with a small piece of metal angle and some JB Weld.

#10902 26 days ago

Replacing playfield through- carriage bolts with t-nuts: what do you use for the tall star posts? The hex-top bolts are too short to get a hold of the nut effectively with the taller posts. Just use a 6-32 screw and cut to length, or does someone have those next top posts with longer threads?

#10903 26 days ago

2-1/4” machine screw inserted from under the playfield up. You get the same result of the carriage bolt but easier to remove than those damn carriage bolts and more support from the T-nut.

Hard to find that length but easy to find longer and cut down with some super champs.

You can also inset the T-nut to make the hex-top screw reach.

#10904 26 days ago

…or just give up on those tall posts and use the regular type, as has become standard. I’ve often puzzled over why they used the taller posts at the slings, they don’t really gain you anything and it makes playfield assembly kind of a PITA.

Yes, I know you can’t always swap out for the lower posts, but mostly that’s just at the spinners from what I can tell. I’ve been pondering going with standard posts on my next Classic Stern playfield assembly job.

#10905 26 days ago
Quoted from Ollulanus:

Replacing playfield through- carriage bolts with t-nuts: what do you use for the tall star posts? The hex-top bolts are too short to get a hold of the nut effectively with the taller posts. Just use a 6-32 screw and cut to length, or does someone have those next top posts with longer threads?

You can recess the T-nut slightly to get more meat in it. There are also longer tnuts that you can get to put in there (they're hard to find I forget where I got mine from, they give you 2-3 extra threads to put the stud [hex-top bolt] in)

Anything is better than those carriage bolts.

#10906 26 days ago
Quoted from slochar:

You can recess the T-nut slightly to get more meat in it. There are also longer tnuts that you can get to put in there (they're hard to find I forget where I got mine from, they give you 2-3 extra threads to put the stud [hex-top bolt] in)
Anything is better than those carriage bolts.

If anyone knows where to get the longer t-nuts, please do post. Would be nice to just stock up on those and simplify things.

I've thought about just going short on everything...but then you have to buy 20 or so new faceted posts, and the old ones usually do clean up just fine. What's another $50 the way these projects eat cash though, lol. I did pick up a bunch of the metallic posts in a few colors from pinball mods.com recently, and have a couple upcoming games I would like to use them on, but then I'd at least have to figure out a mod to raise the spinners. Quite the stack of washers.

#10907 26 days ago
Quoted from Ollulanus:

Replacing playfield through- carriage bolts with t-nuts: what do you use for the tall star posts? The hex-top bolts are too short to get a hold of the nut effectively with the taller posts. Just use a 6-32 screw and cut to length, or does someone have those next top posts with longer threads?

I went with 6-32 Phillips head machine screws. F2k has 2 or 3 different lengths so I just cut to match the carriage-bolts.

I have searched for #6 T nuts with a longer barrel bc clear coated pfs are deeper and I was having trouble catching threads. No luck really.

You could also convert to a machine thread post stud that allready have the hex nut built in.

#10908 26 days ago

The Dragonfist cabinet is done. I still need to install the paperwork and shooter housing in it. It looks pretty darn good. Next on the checklist is the backboard wiring followed by the playfield.

20240622_120310 (resized).jpg20240622_120310 (resized).jpg
#10909 25 days ago
Quoted from Ollulanus:

I've thought about just going short on everything...but then you have to buy 20 or so new faceted posts, and the old ones usually do clean up just fine.

I gave up on reusing the star posts because so much of the time I’d find that the plastic around the bottom had started to become brittle. It’s another of those “wow these add up” expenses that feels stupidly costly for what it is, but now I just bite the bullet.

You should be OK using shorter posts everywhere and just using the taller ones at the spinners or other specific locations, such as wire gates and the like.

Also, the only time I ever had any issue with “pooling” of clear around Star posts was on a game with those long bolts running through the playfield. Could definitely be coincidental, but I wondered if it was a function of having the post essentially clamped down from two directions, under greater pressure than if it was just tightened into a t-nut.

#10910 25 days ago
Quoted from sethbenjamin:

Also, the only time I ever had any issue with “pooling” of clear around Star posts was on a game with those long bolts running through the playfield.

Which play field? Something from Mirco?

#10911 25 days ago

Final touches. Spinner painted black w/ custom gold foil decal - inverted image to flash on spin. Swinks drops dyed black w/ gold foil stern S.

I'm pretty pleased with how this turned out. Moment of truth coming up where I turn it on and see what I need to un-fuck from the tear down and rebuild

PXL_20240623_203503719 (resized).jpgPXL_20240623_203503719 (resized).jpgPXL_20240623_204000069 (resized).jpgPXL_20240623_204000069 (resized).jpgPXL_20240623_204005202 (resized).jpgPXL_20240623_204005202 (resized).jpg
#10912 24 days ago

Got a couple PMS about dying the drops. I used rit black regular, not synthetic (synth only comes on a very dark grey apparently).

Tried it heated without acid initially, just turned them a little green. What worked well was adding about 1 white vinegar and heating them to just under boiling for about an hour.

#10913 24 days ago
Quoted from Ollulanus:

Got a couple PMS about dying the drops. I used rit black regular, not synthetic (synth only comes on a very dark grey apparently).
Tried it heated without acid initially, just turned them a little green. What worked well was adding about 1 white vinegar and heating them to just under boiling for about an hour.

1 : 1

Stupid emotes

#10914 24 days ago
Quoted from Ollulanus:

Got a couple PMS about dying the drops. I used rit black regular, not synthetic (synth only comes on a very dark grey apparently).
Tried it heated without acid initially, just turned them a little green. What worked well was adding about 1 white vinegar and heating them to just under boiling for about an hour.

Pictures, please.

#10915 24 days ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

Pictures, please.

Just like the ones I posted above...

PXL_20240623_183729248.MP (resized).jpgPXL_20240623_183729248.MP (resized).jpg
#10916 24 days ago
Quoted from Ollulanus:

Tried it heated without acid initially, just turned them a little green. What worked well was adding about 1 white vinegar and heating them to just under boiling for about an hour.

Quoted from Ollulanus:

Just like the ones I posted above...
[quoted image]

To confirm, adding white vinegar gave you the nice black appearance? So, regular RIT black dye and white vinegar is the working combination?

#10917 24 days ago

I finally tracked down the issue I was having with Stars. After replacing the bridge rectifier and related connectors, no fix of my problem with resets. Then I replaced all the connectors on the solenoid driver, no change.

Took a longer look under the playfield near the pop bumper because I was starting to consistently see that the game would reset on a pop hit. I hadn't concentrated on this as much because it had happened with sling fires or flippers energized before so I was guessing power related.

The answer was a wire that I missed soldering when I installed Yopsicles months ago. It had been making contact with something it shouldn't with vibrations.

Odd that I didn't have issues right away, but here we are.

#10918 24 days ago
Quoted from AssaultSuit:

I finally tracked down the issue I was having with Stars. After replacing the bridge rectifier and related connectors, no fix of my problem with resets. Then I replaced all the connectors on the solenoid driver, no change.
Took a longer look under the playfield near the pop bumper because I was starting to consistently see that the game would reset on a pop hit. I hadn't concentrated on this as much because it had happened with sling fires or flippers energized before so I was guessing power related.
The answer was a wire that I missed soldering when I installed Yopsicles months ago. It had been making contact with something it shouldn't with vibrations.
Odd that I didn't have issues right away, but here we are.

Thanks for posting your solution.

#10919 24 days ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

To confirm, adding white vinegar gave you the nice black appearance? So, regular RIT black dye and white vinegar is the working combination?

Yeah, put it on the stove just under boiling. Probably added about equal parts dye, water, vinegar. About an hour.

#10920 24 days ago
Quoted from Ollulanus:

Final touches. Spinner painted black w/ custom gold foil decal - inverted image to flash on spin. Swinks drops dyed black w/ gold foil stern S.
I'm pretty pleased with how this turned out. Moment of truth coming up where I turn it on and see what I need to un-fuck from the tear down and rebuild
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Very cool spinner

Since you used Swinks targets, couldn't they just print them in black?

#10921 24 days ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

Very cool spinner
Since you used Swinks targets, couldn't they just print them in black?

You could but I believe it is much much more expensive to have them printed yourself. Swinks has done alot of work to get large batches together and sell them, and has a dyeing guide in their thread.

#10922 24 days ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

Very cool spinner
Since you used Swinks targets, couldn't they just print them in black?

I order in batches of 75-100 and while I could order in black there has never been a request for anything but red or just standard white.

In ordering batches of 75-100 I get a much better price and then pass that on to you guys - $10AUD each + postage.

Here is my dye colouring guide. I haven't done the vinegar approach - wonder what the improvement is. I have dyed in black as well and typically 2 minutes in the dye is all that is needed.

The targets turned out nice Ollulanus

Dye Colouring Guide.pdfDye Colouring Guide.pdf
#10923 23 days ago
Quoted from swinks:

I order in batches of 75-100 and while I could order in black there has never been a request for anything but red or just standard white.
In ordering batches of 75-100 I get a much better price and then pass that on to you guys - $10AUD each + postage.
Here is my dye colouring guide. I haven't done the vinegar approach - wonder what the improvement is. I have dyed in black as well and typically 2 minutes in the dye is all that is needed.
The targets turned out nice Ollulanus
[quoted image]

Did you use the graphite synthetic for black? Didn't appear they had a true black and the regular and I was afraid it wouldn't be dark enough. The standard dye didn't do much until I added some acid...got a little green, but even that took like 15. If the graphite will do black in 2m, that's great to know.

#10924 23 days ago
Quoted from Ollulanus:

Did you use the graphite synthetic for black? Didn't appear they had a true black and the regular and I was afraid it wouldn't be dark enough. The standard dye didn't do much until I added some acid...got a little green, but even that took like 15. If the graphite will do black in 2m, that's great to know.

yes, I used Rit DyeMore Graphite and very very close to black - worked well and was happy with it.

#10925 23 days ago
Quoted from supermoot:

You could but I believe it is much much more expensive to have them printed yourself. Swinks has done alot of work to get large batches together and sell them, and has a dyeing guide in their thread.

forgot to add that professional printing is done in different types of materials but the targets are best printed in SLS which is a white PA12 nylon and then the professional print companies have dye baths and do a very similar process but everything is very expensive. A SLS print machine is typically around the $250000 each.

#10926 19 days ago

Light board, displays and backglass are it. It's looking a lot like a Dragonfist now.

20240625_195635 (resized).jpg20240625_195635 (resized).jpg20240628_161115 (resized).jpg20240628_161115 (resized).jpg20240628_173641 (resized).jpg20240628_173641 (resized).jpg

I still need to do the paperwork and install the blue light baffles I had made.

#10927 19 days ago

Can someone with a lightning snap a quick pic of the rectifier connector wiring for me? Was working peachy until I repined it; did 1 at a time so I highly doubt I got something wrong, and it lines up with my Seawitch...but before I go spending the day tracking down a short elsewhere, want to make certain I'm not just the dumbass who swapped a wire.

Started up blowing the 10a fuse, ~2v on test point 1, and no solenoids firing - but the controlled lights were working fine, which doesn't make sense as according to the schematic the controlled bus rolls from that 10a fused line. That's got me thinking maybe I swapped something, though I'm not seeing it. Now it's not booting, GI only. Was working just fine before I went and tried to make it better, lol.

PXL_20240629_122015627 (resized).jpgPXL_20240629_122015627 (resized).jpg

#10928 19 days ago
Quoted from Ollulanus:

Can someone with a lightning snap a quick pic of the rectifier connector wiring for me? Was working peachy until I repined it; did 1 at a time so I highly doubt I got something wrong, and it lines up with my Seawitch...but before I go spending the day tracking down a short elsewhere, want to make certain I'm not just the dumbass who swapped a wire.
Started up blowing the 10a fuse, ~2v on test point 1, and no solenoids firing - but the controlled lights were working fine, which doesn't make sense as according to the schematic the controlled bus rolls from that 10a fused line. That's got me thinking maybe I swapped something, though I'm not seeing it. Now it's not booting, GI only. Was working just fine before I went and tried to make it better, lol.
[quoted image]

You wired J1 incorrectly. Trips up a lot of people because it's 9 pin instead of 8 pin. See this great illustration
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/price-check-1980-sterns-quicksilver-stargazer-seawitch/page/202#post-7867555

#10929 19 days ago
Quoted from emsrph:

You wired J1 incorrectly. Trips up a lot of people because it's 9 pin instead of 8 pin. See this great illustration
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/price-check-1980-sterns-quicksilver-stargazer-seawitch/page/202#post-7867555

Yup, I found a pic in my stash but looked right past it. Finally put a circuit breaker on that 10a blowing, plugged in connectors one at a time until it tripped to narrow it down to J1. Still stared at it for 10 minutes before realizing what I'd done, lol. First rule of pinball repair: always assume YOU fucked it up

#10930 19 days ago

In a pinch if you don't have the keying plugs for the .156 you can jam a qtip or dowel in there to replace it so you don't make this mistake.

When I redo the rectifier connector and have a new one in there I either don't put that 9th pin in if the game doesn't use it (most don't) and I use a 9 pin housing, with a key pin (or substitute as I can never find where I put them) in both the actual key pin and the 9th position, so it's pretty hard to get it wrong.

#10931 19 days ago
Quoted from slochar:

In a pinch if you don't have the keying plugs for the .156 you can jam a qtip or dowel in there to replace it so you don't make this mistake.
When I redo the rectifier connector and have a new one in there I either don't put that 9th pin in if the game doesn't use it (most don't) and I use a 9 pin housing, with a key pin (or substitute as I can never find where I put them) in both the actual key pin and the 9th position, so it's pretty hard to get it wrong.

Yeah, I knew it was 8 vs 9, just wasn't paying attention and started right to left repining. JFC the time I'd save on the backend of I slowed down and payed more attention on the front end

#10932 19 days ago
Quoted from Ollulanus:

First rule of pinball repair: always assume YOU fucked it up

Can you imagine how much more wonderful the world would be if everybody made this statement their mantra ?

#10933 19 days ago

DAMN! Wish I was closer to St Louis right now. Helluva deal on a Trident here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/for-sale-trident-10#post-8241897

Jealous of whoever gets it.

#10934 18 days ago
Quoted from play_pinball:

DAMN! Wish I was closer to St Louis right now. Helluva deal on a Trident here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/for-sale-trident-10#post-8241897
Jealous of whoever gets it.

Someone beat me to it. That would have been worth a 4 hour drive.

#10935 17 days ago

Hi Guys
I’m having trouble with Nugent my 3 bank drop target bank not resetting after you drop all the targets in game play , it happens about every 6 time or so they won’t reset , it doesn’t matter which sequence you drop the targets in it won’t make a difference
It will always reset after a ball drain every time though

I’ve swapped out the MPU & CPU to eliminate those ,I’ve cleaned gapped the switches
Only thing I haven’t tried is reflowing the soldier at the switches or changing out the switch diodes

Any help would be appreciated

#10936 17 days ago
Quoted from Dicky:

Hi Guys
I’m having trouble with Nugent my 3 bank drop target bank not resetting after you drop all the targets in game play , it happens about every 6 time or so they won’t reset , it doesn’t matter which sequence you drop the targets in it won’t make a difference
It will always reset after a ball drain every time though
I’ve swapped out the MPU & CPU to eliminate those ,I’ve cleaned gapped the switches
Only thing I haven’t tried is reflowing the soldier at the switches or changing out the switch diodes
Any help would be appreciated

Next time the drops do NOT reset like they should, immediately go into switch test - find out which switch of the 3 the MPU is NOT seeing closed.

#10937 17 days ago
Quoted from Coyote:

Next time the drops do NOT reset like they should, immediately go into switch test - find out which switch of the 3 the MPU is NOT seeing closed.

Hopefully it's the lowest in the stock software.... I really wish Stern/Bally had shown all the closed switches.

For Dicky look at the surfaces of those switch contacts REALLY closely. Chances are that the gold plating is gone, or has a small 'dot' in the center of one of the contacts which is a dead spot. In an intermittent situation like this where it's not something obviously wrong I'd just replace all the switch blades with new contacts.

The biggest problem with Nugent's targets is that they have the extra contacts on them because the software is the same as (wild fyre?) a game with a 5 bank instead of the 3, so there's two switches stacked. The game has to see ALL 5 switches closed to realize all are down and need to be reset.

Play with the glass off and next time it happens, put the ball aside and pound around on the playfield around the drop bank and see if it recovers. If it does, it's likely one of the contacts just not adjusted correctly.

If you happen to have one of the rom variants made by Quench or others that has an extended switch test do as Coyote says and go into the switch test to see if all 5 switches are seen.

Ball drain reset + next ball sequence does not check the switches before resetting that's just a canned routine - reset drops regardless of switches.

It's possible it could be the switch diodes, but probably not. I have a large stock of switch parts to made from scratch which is why I'd change the blades out but I think you should be able to inspect those switch points closely and get an idea. At this age of the switches they are likely worn off anyway, once the gold plating is gone, the switch will be intermittent. The manufacturers realized this in later games (90s) where they started to drive the switch matrix at 12v instead of 5v as the higher voltage can overcome contact wear to a certain extent.

#10938 17 days ago

Wow thanks for the detailed answer
I was wondering why there is so many switches on the bank as opposed to my MPU 200 games
I will investigate & report
Thanks guys

#10939 16 days ago

Anyone interested in a Star Gazer build kit? I think I have everything you need to assemble one. Playfield cleared by Kruzman, wire harness, meteor donor game, mirrors back glass from Coos, plastics, metal guides, playfield wood rails, playfield support rails, light board. I suspect $3500-$4000 worth of parts, I feel like I’ll never have time to build this one so if you’re interested let me know.

Have similar set up for a Bally Kiss as well, if that one tickles someone’s fancy.

#10940 15 days ago

very tempting

#10941 15 days ago

Update everything sold already.

#10942 15 days ago

Plastic trim for the sides on backglasses - I know I've seen info on how to find it at the hardware store or the like, but damned if I can remember/find it. Anyone point me in the right direction? Have several that could stand new trim.

#10943 15 days ago
Quoted from Ollulanus:

Plastic trim for the sides on backglasses - I know I've seen info on how to find it at the hardware store or the like, but damned if I can remember/find it. Anyone point me in the right direction? Have several that could stand new trim.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Thermoclear-1-4-in-x-96-in-x-1-4-in-6mm-Thermoclear-Polycarbonate-Multi-Wall-U-Channel-PCTWU-6MM/205202529

Screen Shot 2024-07-02 at 10.00.26 PM (resized).jpgScreen Shot 2024-07-02 at 10.00.26 PM (resized).jpg

It helps to have a table saw to cut the excess away. If you do have a table saw, then install the channel to a piece of 1/4 plywood to make the cuts.

#10944 15 days ago

Does anyone have a part number for the 10 point switches in Dragonfist? It is just a leaf switch mounted behind a rubber ring. I was going to use a Gottlieb substitute if I can't find the correct part.

#10945 15 days ago
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:

Does anyone have a part number for the 10 point switches in Dragonfist? It is just a leaf switch mounted behind a rubber ring. I was going to use a Gottlieb substitute if I can't find the correct part.

Basic Stern switch standup:
1) Action Kicker Switch [ SW-462]
2)Bracket 1A-221-2 "L" type. bracket could be deferent design.
2a) backing plate nut 17A-122
2b) front flat plate 17a-123
2c) #4x-zz/ww" long lg.SR.S.M.S. type"A"
or
2ca) #5x-zz/ww" long S.M.S. screw.

#10946 15 days ago
Quoted from slochar:

Hopefully it's the lowest in the stock software.... I really wish Stern/Bally had shown all the closed switches.
For Dicky look at the surfaces of those switch contacts REALLY closely. Chances are that the gold plating is gone, or has a small 'dot' in the center of one of the contacts which is a dead spot. In an intermittent situation like this where it's not something obviously wrong I'd just replace all the switch blades with new contacts.
The biggest problem with Nugent's targets is that they have the extra contacts on them because the software is the same as (wild fyre?) a game with a 5 bank instead of the 3, so there's two switches stacked. The game has to see ALL 5 switches closed to realize all are down and need to be reset.
Play with the glass off and next time it happens, put the ball aside and pound around on the playfield around the drop bank and see if it recovers. If it does, it's likely one of the contacts just not adjusted correctly.
If you happen to have one of the rom variants made by Quench or others that has an extended switch test do as Coyote says and go into the switch test to see if all 5 switches are seen.
Ball drain reset + next ball sequence does not check the switches before resetting that's just a canned routine - reset drops regardless of switches.
It's possible it could be the switch diodes, but probably not. I have a large stock of switch parts to made from scratch which is why I'd change the blades out but I think you should be able to inspect those switch points closely and get an idea. At this age of the switches they are likely worn off anyway, once the gold plating is gone, the switch will be intermittent. The manufacturers realized this in later games (90s) where they started to drive the switch matrix at 12v instead of 5v as the higher voltage can overcome contact wear to a certain extent.

Okay problem fixed

So I removed all the switches from the lower three bank target assembly & checked for any broken leafs there where none & I also cleaned them up better & then reassembled with still same problem

So then I got the Multimeter out and found a couple of the diodes measured just over 1k on two of the switches, so I replaced them & bingo a happily working drop bank

I tested it for about 3 hours with it working 100% every time , I even managed to roll it on one game so guess all is good

Thanks for all your input

#10947 15 days ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

Basic Stern switch standup:
1) Action Kicker Switch [ SW-462]
2)Bracket 1A-221-2 "L" type. bracket could be deferent design.
2a) backing plate nut 17A-122
2b) front flat plate 17a-123
2c) #4x-zz/ww" long lg.SR.S.M.S. type"A"
or
2ca) #5x-zz/ww" long S.M.S. screw.

Thanks for that. So - this is the SW-462.
Pinside_forum_4048883_1100406 (resized).pngPinside_forum_4048883_1100406 (resized).png

And this is the Gottlieb replacement I have on hand. I think I'll just use the Gottlieb ones. The contacts are facing the correct way and they seem more durable.

20240703_073441 (resized).jpg20240703_073441 (resized).jpg

#10948 15 days ago
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:

Thanks for that. So - this is the SW-462.
[quoted image]
And this is the Gottlieb replacement I have on hand. I think I'll just use the Gottlieb ones. The contacts are facing the correct way and they seem more durable.
[quoted image]

Am I correct? There is no diode or cap on these?

#10949 15 days ago

That gottlieb switch looks like it's high current contacts, don't use that for low current switch matrix

#10950 15 days ago
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:

Am I correct? There is no diode or cap on these?

You need a diode for all switches in the matrix (except coin door), or if its paralleled to another switch, then just one diode for the pair.

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