Look what floated like butterfly right into my garage this weekend Any Ali lovers out there?

Never thought I would find one, but this fell right into my lap, so I couldn’t resist. Got some interesting plans for this one. Think I’ll start a thread on it.

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It looks to be in very nice condition.

It has some expected scratches, scuffs & dings on the cab, but other than some insert keyline wear the playfield is great. Pretty flawless apron too. It's a nice little project that won't require extensive resto work.

It’s one of my favorite games and I have owned at least one for 10 years. It has something about it… Something I can only describe as a pinball soul. Probably has a hint of the soul of the man who created it, Harry Williams. Under appreciated these days… but not by me.

Well that's good to know. Watching gameplay videos is one thing, but I'm really looking forward to flipping it. I want to see if collecting all those bonus payouts multiple times before draining is as satisfying as it looks.

Very Jealous!

Ali is a lot of fun. Harry Williams was 73-74 years old when he designed that game.

Ali vs Big Game…

Who wins?

I mean questions like these don’t really matter. One game is not better than the other. Nothing is accomplished or gained by asking or answering such questions.

Anyone that owns Alien Star, Nine Ball, Ali, Taxi, and BSD knows great games and has my respect.

Both , they are Classic Sterns

For me? Big Game. No contest.

Sure, one game is not better than the other. It all comes down to personal preference. I got to play a well set up Ali at the Denver pin show. I prefer my Big Game.

Just sparking conversation… not looking for some definitive answer. no need to rain on the parade!

Didn't Harry Williams also design Flight 2000? Such a good game with a challenging to earn multi-ball.

Yup. It’s a good one, for sure!

And Cheetah

Gameplay is king

He also designed Big Game and Freefall.

2 outta 3 aint bad!

I'm not a big fan of flight 2k but free fall is pretty fun to flip

Just to be clear I meant Big Game and Flight were the not bad

Free fall even with the non-locking multiball mod doesn't do it for me. The spinner is too far away to be satisfying. I liked the bingo scoring the center bank, but I can get that fix by playing big game.

I'd rank those 3 Big Game->Flight->Free Fall (and seawitch better than all 3 of these....)

Totally agree. Freefall needed a lot more than the no-multiball-relock mod. The multiball and single ball rules are EXACTLY the same. Add the frustrating lock-by-luck and the game was more aggravating than fun.
The spinner is far away, but it’s also 5k per spin when lit. That’s what makes it satisfying.
New multiball rules really made it more exciting. I still have a couple of bugs to figure out, then I can share it.

Hey folks, checked the key posts but the answer isn’t in there, so I’ll ask quick.

This is my second Stern Electronice game - Magic . My first was F2K.
Be noticed the same on Both but worse on this Magic. The flippers seem a bit wimpy and “mushy”. Is that a my game thing or a known thing?
Is it a rebuild? Or a something to work on?

Well, you need good sleeves and plungers. Beyond that, perhaps one of two things.

1) The later you can set the EOS switch from opening the more flipper power you will get.

and

2) This one is going to be subject of debate. There are several opinions.

Your F2K is an MPU-200 pin that uses the larger Stern 16B-6 transformer.

Your Magic is an MPU-100 pin that uses the smaller Stern 16B-3 transformer. I feel the difference in robustness of game speed and force. Everything hits harder with the -6 transformer. Others cannot detect any difference in game action.

Try this: Swap the 2 transformers and see if you can detect in the feel of the game action. Does Magic feel hotter with the -6? How are the long shots with F2K with the smaller -3? Do they feel powerful? ( The -3 uses a 5 amp fuse in fuse #4 from the left. The -6 uses a 7 amp fuse. You may need to swap in a 7 amp fuse in the -3 unit ).

Please came back and tell us your observations.

Realistically, just rebuild the flippers first. Or swap in new Gen2 ones entirely: https://www.pinballlife.com/full-flipper-assembly-for-classic-stern-machines-031980-to-021982.html

Note: you’ll have to drill new holes to mount these but then you’ll have one style of mech between F2K and Magic. You could opt to put in stronger coils than the original spec too.

Yes. The later Gen 2 games use a "better" flipper design. Pinball Life does not even show the Gen 1 design as being for sale anymore.

https://www.pinballlife.com/full-flipper-assembly-for-classic-stern-machines-031980-to-021982.html

Magic is using J-25-500 flipper coils.

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F2K is using a more powerful J-25-475 flipper coil. You could swap some 475s in Magic for a bit of a boost.
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Thx fellas.
The F2K is long gone. So I’m only with the Magic now.
I’ll mess around more. If I’m lucky I have some plungers, I should have sleeves spare.
I’ll check my coil pile for anything a bit stronger.

You could likely benefit from replacing the flipper button switches on the cabinet too.

I was debating this myself while going though my Ali parts order list. Whether to rebuild the existing flippers or drop in entire Gen2 setups. I've got mismatched coils on the flippers now, and I was going to replace the flipper shafts anyway, so I'm leaning towards just throwing in the Gen2s. Almost twice the price of doing a rebuild kit tho.

But when it comes to mechanical parts, I'd rather just spend the money & get it working flawlessly for many years.

What's the issue with the Gen1 Stern flippers? Just a different base plate & a shorter flipper shaft? I can't remember.

Maybe some of the guys who worked on these things back in the field would know better but the Gen1 design, in my experience, has a tendency to crack in half. I’ve had to replace one on my Trident and my Stingray. Luckily I had spares from converted games. I do plan to swap my Trident to Gen2 when it gets a full restore.

In theory, I think the flipper shaft length only matters if you’re using the “correct” flippers with the notch on the shaft. Since I tend to use these “Bally” flippers, which don’t have a notch, it doesn’t matter. You’ll just have a little be more shaft poking out of the pawl. The set screws work just the same no matter where you clamp them down. https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/A-3994-2

Those bats are slightly fatter though so more adjustment needed to avoid flipper hop.

I’ve compared them. The difference is so minuscule, maybe 1/16”? I have had zero issues with the games I have them in (F2K, QS, Big Game). The only games I have flipper hop problems with are Stingray and Galaxy and that has the original bats still installed, which I think are more design flaws with the inlanes than anything else.

The base plate has a weak design flaw. There is a small metal bridge that breaks the assembly
into two pieces... The back coil part base housing ends up being supported by one #6/#8 screw,
while the front part of the base plate gets three screws to support it.
Game Plan has a better base plate design. They made the front coil hold bracket a separate piece.
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OEM 1970's Stern & other Manufacturers early design.
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VS.
Game Plan revision design.
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Done... Just need instruction cards
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Anybody looking for a Nine Ball spinner?

This is just a tease. A trial run. I think I could make them. But it would not be cheap, I don't think.

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But if we can find out who makes these for Marco, and special order for the wire ends to be cut long, NB spinners could live again.

This:

https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/M-1534-1A

Or this:

The 1.5 oz. weight is a bit too heavy for the classic Sterns. But if we could find out who is making these then NB spinners would be possible.

https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/A-7861-KU

You looking for the Dip-8 LM4562 or the Dip-14 MC14562BCP? Both are used on classic Stern.

If it's the LM4562, it was once a common enough part that if you buy on eBay or Aliexpress there's a very good chance what you receive will be real. For a couple of bucks, it's worth the wait.

Marco has this spinner for Bally pins. It should work, however, Marco's ad says the axle length is 2-7/8 inch. The Dracula spinner I am measuring from has the axle length as 2 3/4" inch. This measurement would need to be verified. And Bally spinners use the larger diameter wire where Stern used the smaller wire. The .8 oz weight converts to 22 grams which is on the light side of the Stern spinners I have.

https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/A-3460

And then there is this spinner that comes with straight axles that you bend to suit yourself. The ad says the wire arms (axles) measure 1.2 mm diameter. My Stern spinners axles measure 1.25 so the axle wires are the right diameter. The big problem here is the spinner weighs 1.5 oz which equals 42 grams which will be too heavy, I think.

Anyway, I called Marco and asked if their supplier could make these with longer wires. I don't have an answer yet. The customer service rep was some young girl who had problems with giving straight answers. But she finally said she would pass my request along to the product development team. I don't have confidence she will do that so in a few days I am going to call back and ask to speak to a supervisor, or manager.

If the same outfit that is making the Bally spinner could come on board and make the Bally spinner with longer wires and make it weigh 1 oz. we could be in business for making Nine Ball spinners. Both Marco and Pinball Life sell the yellow Stern arrow decals.

https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/A-7861-KU

Keep your fingers crossed.

For anybody thinking about building their own wire harness, this may be the solution. I have not done this yet but I see it in my future.

First, this guy built his own harness for a Scared Stiff he built from scratch.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/there-s-one-more-scared-stiff

The relevant posts start #36 with the author's handy looking wire striper. Followed by #59, #60, #61 and #62.
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I recently bought a selection of 18 gauge wire from Amazon. This kit has all of the needed wire colors. 10 rolls, 100 feet per roll. Amazon is wrong with its math. The wire is not 40 cents per foot. It is 4 cents per foot; This a great price for wire.

I am not a wire engineer. I can only assume is is good quality of wire.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07QFXQX7W/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_image

Here is every color you need to build a harness. Of coarse, white, red, and yellow are here. But so is brown, grey, and purple.

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And then if you build a striping tool as Scared Stiff guy did, here is a selection of Uni-Paint pens with all of the striping colors you need.

https://www.amazon.com/Sanford-63721-Uni-Paint-Marker-Assorted/dp/B00FZYQKF0/ref=sr_1_12_mod_primary_new

Do you need purple wire with green stripe? Check.
or
Blue with a purple stripe? Check.

There is also pink, gold, and silver which are not part of Stern's color palette, but they are there if you need them.

I have not built my paint pen holder yet, but it looks to be a simple affair.

Happy Wiring.

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I'm all for DYI, but when it comes to striped wire I'd prefer not to do that myself.

.25/foot (18 AWG) and .22/foot (22 AWG) with volume discounts for 10', 25', 50', 100', and higher. Pretty much every color combo you need (and solids of course).

https://wirebot.xyz/collections/18-awg-wire

I striped my own when I built mine. But I only striped the ends. It helped running one connector at a time and bundling. There was not a good full source to get striped wire at the time.

I just put a Big Game on location, set to 1 credit/2 coins for all 3 chutes though i am only using left and right ones. However if you put one quarter in the left and one quarter in the right it doesn't work... both quarters have to go in the same chute?

That is not how my other Sterns are behaving, am i missing something?

There are three coin alternators in the code one for each slot. Parallel the switch connectors from one coin switch to make them all use the same alternator. If there's a setting to make one chute use the ratio of smoother use that.

interesting idea for a solution, that sounds easy enough if the software can't do it

It appears to be a bug with coin chute #1, it counts coins independently from coin chutes #2 and #3 (which share the coin counter).
Wire coin chute #1 to become chute #2 or #3 (which ever isn't currently used) and it should work as you expect.

Two last numbers on display looks blur,
Is this fixable, or is it the display?

/Carl

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its the glass, replace the glass or go LED

The displays deterioration is caused by over voltage.
Bally has high voltage at +190 volts...but, a engineering tech told me all you need is enough
voltage to get the displays to lite up. I find that I can get the displays to stay lit at +170 volts.
When the regulated high voltage fails, it ends up supplying approximately +300 volts to the displays.
This over voltage, over time, causes the most damage to the gas discharge displays.

I noticed there might be some chip brand compatibility issues on the SB300 around the 4070 and 4562. Some legit TI CD4070 i have tried either make the white noise (rockets, explosions) sound extremely digitized or missing. Every HCF4070, HEF4070 and MC14070 ive tried seem ok. TI's CD4070B was hit or miss depending on production lot, the newest ones I bought with the E4 stamp seem fine, but some new old stock genuine ones did not work right depending on what 4562 it was paired with. Every single HGSemi's 4070 tried did not work right. I haven't poked around enough to be sure where its going wrong, but I think 4070 gate D to 4562's data is the issue.

The 4070 probably almost never fails, but if you replace it, I would stick to nexperia/onsemi/STMicro ones. And if you hear the white noise sounding like a 1990s modem connecting, its probably around that area.

I got the same results on an original Stern board too. Next time I update the replacement SB300 I might try and figure out exactly what is going on, the rest of the 4070 gates seem to be working ok with a TI CD4070, could be a simple tweak like a small cap.

240 to 260 volts in my experience.

I run mine around 168v without issue, yes it technically makes the regulators work harder but they are still being made while the glass displays are not.

When you adjust the HV output really low the regulator circuit is more stressed by basically burning off the Vs. The HV transistors are known to blow out from time to time. Just something to consider, but i guess its easier to fix the circuit board. There is probably a good compromise like 175vdc.

For what its worth my test fixture runs almost 24/7 and the same displays have been in there for years. They don't look any worse than when they started, and I used some pretty molted ones.

OK boys and girls: HELP !!

Seawitch. I have been playing the snot out of it for the last 2-3 weeks. Making some mods, etc.

So, I am playing a wild, fast and furious game. The ball drains. But does not launch back onto the play field. And then I see that I have lost all solenoids and some of my switches are acting strange. The flippers work but that is about all.

Here is what I have tried:

1) I replaced the SDU with a known good unit. No change. I have flippers only. Plus GI and Feature lights. No solenoids.

2) I swap my Alltek MPU with the Allek MPU from my Catacomb. No change. Flippers and lights only.

and

3) I swapped my transformer and rectifier assembly with a known good assembly. No change. Flippers and lights only.

The only parts I have not swapped are the sound board and LDA.

I can turn the pin on. Check.

I can credit a game. Check.

I can flip the flippers. Check.

I can watch the lights. Check.

The sounds work. Check.

Replaced MPU. Check.

Replaced SDU. Check.

Replaced rectifier. Check.

What I cannot do is get anything, other than the flippers to work.

If it is not the MPU, if it is not the SDU, and if if it is not the rectifier, what the hell else can it be?

What do I do next ? I don't know where else to look.

Maa

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