Please no hate but am I the only one that prefers the metal rings and rods? I always felt the plastic versions showcased how cheap Stern was when it came to building these games. Some of the greatest games ever built but with some of the crappiest components. I feel metal is a nice upgrade along with acorn bolts for the legs.

It's fixable. But you can buy a blue one of black one for $12.00. Depends on how important the white is to you.

That's a first.

i just ordered those from PPS to see what they look like:
http://www.planetarypinball.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=PPS-545-5100-00WH

They look like the real deal. Show us some pics when you get them?

Note: Those bases are the Data East design and not the O.E.M. Stern design.
------ New hardware will be needed for the spoon switch assembly. Plus,
------ the plastic is probable the harder composition that has a tendency to break
------ around the base; as dose the blue ones used on DE Star Wars.
Fun Fact: Data East had several base design changes throughout the late 1980's.
--------- Wico supplied the O.E.M. part; it was their design. I think Data East would
--------- modify the part to make it their own and not have to rely on Wico to supply
--------- the component for them.

you got it
I repainted white some OEM for my QS scratch build, now white paint is flaking all over my PF so... that was a bad idea

Another problem just cropped up this afternoon. I have a Stern Wild Fyre (MPU-100) that I bought recently that was working. Got it home, stripped and cleaned the playfield, remediated some small alkaline damage (I hope), and fired it up. This was two weeks ago. Game booted, got all seven flashes, displays work, goes into attract mode. All tests with the coin door button pass: switches, solenoids, sounds, etc. But it would not start a game even with credits on it. The Credit Button, switch #6, shows in Switch Test.

Now this afternoon, game won't boot, gets the flicker on the MPU LED at power up, a long pause and one flash, or sometimes shows flicker, flash, pause, flash, flash, and that's it. Voltage readings at all test points on the power supply board are correct, and before it quit booting all test points on all boards were correct.

I have replaced U7, U8 and U10 with no change. Do you think that I still could have some lingering alkaline cancer or perhaps is there something else i could try? Should I bite the bullet and buy a Weebly and turn this MPU into a rectangular frisbee? See pics below.

20220927_220205 (resized).jpg

20220927_220210 (resized).jpg

20220927_220222 (resized).jpg

20220927_220226 (resized).jpg

20220927_220232 (resized).jpg

20220927_220236 (resized).jpg

20220927_220301 (resized).jpg

You need to get rid of the U11 AMI chip & try it then. If you don't have any more spare 6821s replace U11 with your old U10 you removed (as long as that was not an AMI brand as well) the AMI brand has a very high failure rate.

Did you resolve the stuck switch #06? If not disconnect J2 and J3 from the MPU board. Does it then complete the LED power on tests?
Was the U8 socket replaced in the corrosion cleanup?
Deal with any AMI chips as Joydivision mentioned first.

U10 was also AMI. I did buy some used Motorola 6821s from a very nice person.
Now I'm up to six flashes. I have 43.3 VDC at TP5 on the P/S board. Searching further.

I meant that when pressed, switch 6 showed up in the Switch Test and went out when released.

Make sure that the connection in the game (J4 on the MPU) is good carrying 48v.

Measure the voltage on the left and right legs of resistor R113 (just below MPU J4). You can see where R113 is in the middle of your third picture.
The right leg of R113 should have 21.5VDC, the left leg should have 43VDC which comes via MPU J4 from the rectifier board J3.

J4?

43VDC which comes via MPU J4 from the rectifier board J3.

Yep. 48V comes into any Stern -100 or -200 or Bally -17, -35, or -133 at J4 (bottom left connector) on the MPU board.

I'm getting ready to restore 2 meteors and a Seawitch. I generally re-plate most of the metal pieces of the PF mechs and cab parts. The thing that bugs me about SEI drop targets is the excessive wear on the dt links and shafts. I have done several bally games and never have see this much wear on their dt parts. So why bother to re-plate worn parts? I have a coworker that has a side biz doing automotive audio and custom wheels etc. He told about a new machine they recently got it that will make just about anything. So I thought I would have him make up a repro SEI DT link. I sent him an NOS piece to mock up.

So on this post I was going to ask the group about how much would somebody pay for these if I did a bunch of them. As I was getting ready to take some pics, I noticed that some of the links have a half moon notch cut out on the bottom edge. In the first pic, the 2 upper links are NOS, the bottom is a beat original. So why the cut-out and does it make a difference? I have a pile of these links that mostly all came from F2K or Meteor and I have a mixture of both, with notch and w/o notch.

Secondly I can't find an actual image of these links on any of the parts catalogs I have or found online. The second pic shows a Bally NOS link P-1973-337 that looks like the 1A-491 in the Stern book. The size and hole spacing is the same as the links in the first pic with the "hook" at the end. Is this one also a 1A-491? On Marco search for the P-1973-337 they list it as a Bly part on the page but in description they say used on SEI drop targets.

Can anyone shed some light on this please?

PA010219 (resized).JPG

PA010220 (resized).JPG

I don't know why the cutout. I'm guessing it does not make a difference. Seeing and getting some sort of understanding of the lengths Stern went to save a buck, maybe Stern had some extra sheet metal laying around with a hole drilled in and figured out a way to recut this metal and make some useful parts. It is just a guess.

Screen Shot 2022-10-01 at 8.43.23 AM (resized).jpg

The only thing I can see and say about the beat OG link is that the hole that slides onto the pivot shaft might be a little worn, it is not a precision part. All that happens is that the drop target makes the link drop down and activate the blade switch. On the left side with the point poking up, there is a little notch in that hook; All that is is from the link being pulled back up where it contacts/slams? into the backing metal of the drop assembly.

Screen Shot 2022-10-01 at 8.43.23 AM (resized).jpg

To answer your questions, a little wear does not bother me, I would buy some of these if I was missing some. It is buried inside the drop assembly and out of sight. No one ever sees it. If I had one very rusted, I would sand it clean and slop a little spray can paint on; What ever color I had sitting around. Plating is nice but get the cheapest plating you can get.

I have a Bally drop assy. with the kinds of links you show, but I also have this Bally drop assy. And the actuator links have a very large hook on them.

IMG_1483 (resized).JPG

All that said, with the SEI drop assys. getting hard to find, any part for a Stern drop is a good part. Marco sells several pieces that can be used to build a SEI drop assy., but not all of the parts available. I would think there would be some people who would like to have some of these.

See what others opinions are. John Greatwich knows a lot of what is happening with the Marco inventory.

You might want to contact Marco and see if Marco would stock them.

https://www.marcospecialties.com/control/keywordsearch?SEARCH_STRING=drop%20target&VIEW_SIZE=60&VIEW_INDEX=2&view=card&sortOrder=SortKeywordRelevancy

EDIT: My SEI parts catalog

Stern QS prints 1 (resized).jpeg

shows the style of link that is in the bottom of your pic with a part number of 1A-491. But this blow up pic of the drop assy. is the early style of drop with the switches on the bottom. With this style, the drop target itself activates the blade switch that has one of those nylon nubs attached to the blade.

Stern QS prints (resized).jpeg

Could anyone tell me if a Bally Chime cc-31-2000 solenoid would work on Stars? Stars calls for a N-31-2000

I can get the Bally locally, and has a description of Replacement coil for Bally Chime Box.

Thanks for your detailed reply.

So now I now the hooked link is only for rear mounted switches. I just don't know if the part number was changed. I bought some hooked links from PBR about 10 years ago, as seen in pics. I will have to back and look at the invoices to see what part number they used. Interesting about the extra notch, but makes sense. My Seawitch has brick patter cab floor, so yeah, cheap.

As far as wear. When I go through the trouble of rebuilding a mech, I want the newest and parts I can find. OCD. True, it's a cosmetic thing, but does the wear cause any reset issues?

As far as the wear, true they usually work fine. I was only concerned about the reset. Would correct adjustment of the A-375's prevent this? Or does the reset rely on the links getting slammed up into the grooves of the back plates?

As far as making a bunch of these. I did think about Marco. It will depend on the cost to make them compared to what Marco will sell them for. They have the A-491 listed for $4.99. It will probably cost me close to that just make each one, so I don't know if it will be worth it.

I made a bunch of these a while back if anyone needs some.

IMG_20221001_152810376 (resized).jpg

I also have a pile of used original ones I just put new ones on when I take apart the mechs. As far as the notch cutout some mechs had them and some didn't not sure why.
IMG_20221001_152815382 (resized).jpg

I went back to a 2012 PBR invoice and the did use the A-491 for the hooked link.

So you made both notches and no notch? What type of metal?

Stainless steel. Correct I made both, no real reason for making both. I made the Bally and Gottlieb ones also mostly because I can and I'm too cheap to buy it if I can just make it. After I went through a pile of mechs I found one with the notch so I just started using those because why not. I don't know if it serves any practical purpose but it adds clearance when the target is in the raised position.

IMG_20221001_160711175 (resized).jpg

Ok that makes perfect sense. So maybe it was a design change?

Seeing that pic, that notch does make perfect sense.

here are the repro pop housing/base from PPS (white) next to an original Stern (bleu), pretty much copy confirm
20220929_181645- (resized).jpg20220929_181658- (resized).jpg20220929_181705- (resized).jpg

Do you have a link for these?

Note:
The cutout is to give the bottom part of the plastic drop target a space to breath.
On some games the bottom plastic of the drop target snapped off from excessive
resets.

Found it

Well, actually, original Stern bases are white. The blue units are Pinball Life and other aftermarket sellers

Thanks for posting these pics.

EDIT: I wish PL sold these pop assemblies in white.

oh yeah? Weird got those from an old PF i guess someone had already swapped them around- Wasn't there other color than white? I feel like i had seen grey as well...

The wico ones were grey I have several nos ones I got years ago.
I think de units were blue but not 100% sure on that.

DEs were blue.

Note:
Data East, Wico contracted "pop bumper"/"thumper bumper"
1) 1st generation = black base... many small changes to the way the switch assembly is installed...
2) 2nd generation = yellow base Simpson,Batman etc.
3) 3rd generation = blue base LW3, Star Wars etc.

Did any of the other brands use plastic parts, rod & ring, yokes like SEI did?

Yep wico in aft-tor. Also gamatron but I consider that SEi.

ok so i tested those in game and the big holes for the pop ring leg are narrower, likely for teh metal style so to use the plastic pop ring i had to drill them a bit bigger. easy enough and works well installed.

Thanks for that feedback. Now I'll be ready if I need to ream them out.

A while back I asked if anyone would benefit if I were to do a live demo/real time?/ of some switch matrix stuff to help some of you understand how to read the switch matrix. Some of you raised your hands.

Here we go. We are going to do Seawitch. We are going to map 8 items: We will be looking at the wiring for the (1) top thumper, (2) left thumper, (3) right thumper, (4-5 ) both slingshots, (6) the left hand out lane, (7) and the top left stand up target. And where is #8?

With this play field I have marked all 7 items with orange tape.

IMG_1542 (resized).jpg

This is the switch matrix drawing. We are going to run the brown/white wire coming from connector MPU A4-J2-2 ( I have used purple/white wire instead of the blueprint call out of BRN-W. You will need to use your imagination ).

Here is the drawing with the BRN-W wire hi-lighted in pink. This is column ST1 B.

Stern QS prints (resized).jpeg

Here is the lower side of the play field. This shows the BRN-W wire making the run from the (3) pops and then it moves down to the (4) right sling shot and then crosses over to the (5) left sling shot. I have the five switch points marked with orange tape.

IMG_1533 (resized).jpg

And here are the remaining (3) items.

First, the drawing. Now we are working on Row I-1. On this row, there are are the (6) left out-lane, (7) the top left standup target, and the (8) top pop. The top pop is # 8 and is mentioned twice as #1 and #8 because both wires on the switch matrix are located.

Stern QS prints (resized).jpeg

IMG_1547 (resized).jpg

You have just ran one Row wire (BRN-W) and one Column wire (grey).

This is how the switch matrix works. One wire at a time. And then, of course, you have to figure out the cleanest way to run the wires and there is no one right way. Every Star Gazer build I have looked at here has had the wires run a little bit different.

I hope I have been able to put this together in a clear and concise manner so it can be easily understood.

Does this help?

Does anybody need to see more?

My Meteor to Star Gazer project is coming to an end. I have just a couple more issues to squash and a rectifier board to replace. I'll post pictures when it is done done. Right now, it is just kinda done. Anyway, I have a bunch of Meteor parts left over from a pretty nice game. I'll put up some photos later but here is what I have:

OEM plastic set
6 bank memory drop target assembly w/ drops
Backglass
Back box light board
New Meteor drop targets
OEM 111 222 333 drop targets
Stainless ball guide
Wire ball guides
Playfield
Playfield wire harness
Nice apron and shooter housing
New barely used dead bumpers with new caps
Rebuild Gen 1 pop bumper with new cap
A bunch of red plastic posts
Miscellaneous metal / gates / targets

I might get around to making a Pinside ad for it all tomorrow but thought I would offer it here first.
20220530_135548 (resized).jpg20221006_174527 (resized).jpg

I was running this down in my mind while tracking down a switch issue on a recently restored machine (turned out I had a couple wire positions switched in a molex connector I had added, duh.)
Anyhow, it was the first time the idea of a row or column kind of clicked in my head, or at least started to. So, the electrical current basically pulses down the rows and columns and just terminated at the last switch, does not return, yes? I think I had always had the incorrect impression that the pulses went down and back, like a loop. But of course nobody would describe that as a row or a column!

The switch matrix is scanned 100 or 120 times per second based on the mains power frequency of your country.

So strobe #4 (column 4) gets switched to 5 volts. All eight rows are then read simultaneously. Any switches on that column that are closed will result in the respective row signal returning 5 volts. Open switches on that column return 0 volts.

The results for the switches on strobe #4 are stored in memory for later.
Strobe #4 (column 4) then gets deactivated and returns to 0 volts.

Strobe #3 (column 3) is now activated and raised to 5 volts. All eight rows are then read simultaneously. Any switches on that column that are closed will result in the respective row signal returning 5 volts. Open switches return 0 volts.

The results for the switches on strobe #3 are stored in memory for later.
Strobe #3 (column 3) then gets deactivated and returns to 0 volts.

Repeat for strobes #2, #1 and #0

The diodes on the switches are important for separating switches between strobe lines since the row signals are shared.

I have a strange issue on my Meteor to Star Gazer conversion. My left out lane (switch 35) started running up my score. It is actually one of the few switch I didn't replace when I did the conversion. I lifted the playfield and cut off the original capacitor. This instantly fixed the problem. I then installed a shiny new capacitor and checked the diode. The game worked flawlessly for about 20 minutes and then started running up the score again. I lifted the playfield a second time and cut off the new capacitor. The game works great without it. It is also the last switch in the column / row. Anybody got any theories? I think I'll just leave the capacitor off. That switch really doesn't require a capacitor in my opinion. It isn't a quick strike switch. The ball rolls over it at a nice slow pace.

The drawing does not show caps on either out lane.

Interesting, my Meteor had them on both. Might have to cut off the other one too.

Meteor drawing shows the inlanes and outlanes with no caps. Someone perhaps installed them later on.

My Quicksilver drawing does not call for them but I installed some and they work OK.

I did install caps on both spinner switches by mistake. Caps and spinner switches do not work together. A cap will kill your spinner.

Hey all. The development of Big Game has been slow. I have been busy with ensuring alignment of all the cuts are as accurate as possible. I am close to cutting wood and the vectorized artwork was ready but will have to be adjusted to incorporate the realignments. The pace will pick up and I hope to have product quickly. Thanks for your patience.

Fantastic!

4C9B2B04-7F9F-4B93-9D55-34A673A229E4 (resized).jpeg

6210AFCF-5DF1-4D21-81F2-031C0656365C (resized).jpeg

70F14DC1-9509-406F-97AD-422B61291A47 (resized).jpeg

D2517429-0F68-4A39-9421-080FC9EF3521 (resized).jpeg

E454CD2D-902B-46F9-95FB-93A11FBA9635 (resized).jpeg

FF199F02-C0DB-4BE0-94D5-EF05E76E8DC8 (resized).jpeg

did i already said i was interested?

Anyone know if someone sells classic Stern apron decals "approved for tournament play"? On my Meteor, my apron is in perfect shape, except for pait damage right where one of those stickers would go. Searched high and low, cannot find any. Thanks!