Quoted from Pinzzz:What’s different vs a modern day stern flipper?
Totally different. More similar to a Bally solid state flipper from the 70's.
Quoted from Pinzzz:What’s different vs a modern day stern flipper?
Totally different. More similar to a Bally solid state flipper from the 70's.
Quoted from cottonm4:The short play field brackets on the left are in my MPU-200 pins: Big Game, Seawitch etc.
I think the longer brackets on the right are for the MPU-100 pins, such as Dracula.
Can anybody confirm on the longer brackets?
[quoted image]
On IPDB the few mpu100s I looked at had the short brackets. Appears the longer ones may not fit on the side where the outhole switch is.
Hoping someone can help me with a second set of eyes here. I'm putting together the replacement weebly rectifier board for a Stern Stars. There is a two pin connector that runs to the front side of the current board. The white wire goes into E8, but the gray wire looks tied into BR2, which doesn't exist on the new board. Anyone build one of these recently and know where this goes?
20220827_182341 (resized).jpg20220827_182500 (resized).jpgQuoted from grantopia:Hoping someone can help me with a second set of eyes here. I'm putting together the replacement weebly rectifier board for a Stern Stars. There is a two pin connector that runs to the front side of the current board. The white wire goes into E8, but the gray wire looks tied into BR2, which doesn't exist on the new board. Anyone build one of these recently and know where this goes?
[quoted image][quoted image]
You have hack going on. Those wires should not be there.
My Spidey sense is telling me the white wire going to ground is going to end up being "12v unreg return" at rect J3 as it is frequently an issue. The ones soldered to BR2 positive pin is +12V. Previous person that did that measured no 12v at the driver board so installed bodge wires around the burnt up connector.
Check for missing / cut off wires at Rectifier plug J3 Pin 17 and Pin 8.
Untitled (resized).pngQuoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:The cabinet has been repainted and stenciled. Might consider a clearcoat but I usually don't. I like the factory look better. She is just sitting on the cart drying now.
I used a *flat* clear on my latest cabinet repaint, and I was very happy with the look.
Where gloss clear accentuates any surface imperfection and the paint edges, the flat clear pushes all of them back. The result is a very clean looking overall appearance, very much in keeping with the older factory appearance - but you get the benefit of a topcoat protecting the paint.
Not sure how well it translates to photos, but:
1080FDCA-C6DC-4008-AC4F-600E7AAA8745 (resized).jpeg95540E16-710A-44B1-9F61-3900D41F6D2B (resized).jpegQuoted from sethbenjamin:I used a *flat* clear on my latest cabinet repaint, and I was very happy with the look.
Where gloss clear accentuates any surface imperfection and the paint edges, the flat clear pushes all of them back. The result is a very clean looking overall appearance, very much in keeping with the older factory appearance - but you get the benefit of a topcoat protecting the paint.
Not sure how well it translates to photos, but:
[quoted image][quoted image]
I did my last one in a matte finish, looked great!
Quoted from sethbenjamin:I used a *flat* clear on my latest cabinet repaint, and I was very happy with the look.
Where gloss clear accentuates any surface imperfection and the paint edges, the flat clear pushes all of them back. The result is a very clean looking overall appearance, very much in keeping with the older factory appearance - but you get the benefit of a topcoat protecting the paint.
Not sure how well it translates to photos, but:
[quoted image][quoted image]
That does look nice. How did you apply the clear? I sprayed the blue with my gun but rolled the white. I knew from past experience that the white over blue would require a thicker coat than usual. Oil based paint is pretty tough but I do have edges I might like to soften.
Quoted from barakandl:You have hack going on. Those wires should not be there.
My Spidey sense is telling me the white wire going to ground is going to end up being "12v unreg return" at rect J3 as it is frequently an issue. The ones soldered to BR2 positive pin is +12V. Previous person that did that measured no 12v at the driver board so installed bodge wires around the burnt up connector.
Check for missing / cut off wires at Rectifier plug J3 Pin 17 and Pin 8.[quoted image]
Thanks! Not sure how I missed it but someone hacked in to pin 8 and 1 and 2 for the GI. Didn't even notice it when I was repinning that connector but will get that cleaned up!
20220828_104331 (resized).jpgQuoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:That does look nice. How did you apply the clear?
It’s a 2PAC product with “flatting” material in it. (Needs to be stirred a bunch before use.)
I sprayed it with the HVLP gun; as the clear dries it goes from looking “wet” to flatting out. You can re-spray a second coat pretty soon after the first.
If you put it next to a cabinet with gloss clear, you’d see that the black looks noticeably deeper on the gloss finished cabinet, but on its own or in a lineup with other classic machines it really does look “correct.” I used gloss for the initial coat, and it almost seemed a shame to “knock it back”, but again, the gloss really accentuated the surface imperfections (because I only spent a day and a half filling and sanding, rather than a week, lol.)
The flat clear just *made* the finish.
I got the clear from The Coating Store; there’s a $10 up charge for the flat clear but it was worth it.
Quoted from cottonm4:The short play field brackets on the left are in my MPU-200 pins: Big Game, Seawitch etc.
I think the longer brackets on the right are for the MPU-100 pins, such as Dracula.
Can anybody confirm on the longer brackets?
[quoted image]
Quoted from frenchmarky:On IPDB the few mpu100s I looked at had the short brackets. Appears the longer ones may not fit on the side where the outhole switch is.
This is what Mantis is selling for Stern play field hangers.
I bought these from Mantis. I thought these were for the MPU-200 pins. But these are for the later Stern games such as Munsters, Ghostbusters. etc.
Screen Shot 2022-08-28 at 12.07.43 PM (resized).jpg
A close up shows the difference. These have two support ribs pressed into the metal. They will not work on any MPU-100 or MPU-200 pin unless you want to take a grinder to your receiver and grind some metal away. I'll just have to eat these; I'm not shy about modding stuff but I am not taking metal off of the receiver just so I can use these
For the older Sterns, Mantis is selling the style with the longer mounting leg. Doesn't matter if you are working on Dracula or Big Game. These are what you will get. I have 2 pairs of this style. I parted out a MPU-100 Dracula play field and a MPU-100 Hot Hand. I think this is where I got both pairs that I do have.
Screen Shot 2022-08-28 at 12.08.06 PM (resized).jpg
So, at some point in Stern Electronics lifetime, Stern used these hangers with the longer lower leg. I'm looking for someone with a Dracula, or Memory Lane, or Magic, etc. to confirm what hangers are on their pin.
Thanks
My Stingray, Stars, and Ali all have the same shorter hangers.
I also purchased a set of the longer mantis hangers for my future stargazer build. I may have to reconsider using them if they're too long. Or just a chop and re-drill may work.
Here's a pic of the Stingray hanger, which is my oldest classic.
20220828_135416 (resized).jpgI am running into another interesting issue (or should i say frustrating?) on my SG conversion project.
The left slingshot fire during game play, which i think i narrow down as happening once in a while when i flip either flipper (maybe even when i release the flipper).
I crossed out a switch issue as the slingshot fire without scoring any point. I swapped coils, even swapped the whole slingshot assembly and it always stay with the left side so i thought it was a issue with the ground.
I swapped another brand new solenoid board and i got the exact same problem. I run a new dedicated wire from J2-9 to the slingshot coil and still had the same problem, so it isn't the board or the wire?
I moved J2-1 and 2 (flipper sw) and J2-9 into a new connector and only plugged those 3 in J2, same problem still...
The flipper assy are brand new from PBL and looked like they are wired correctly with diode in the right place as well? How would that even short the left slingshot ground?
Am I missing something here? What would make that sling activate?
Quoted from hisokajp:I am running into another interesting issue (or should i say frustrating?) on my SG conversion project.
The left slingshot fire during game play, which i think i narrow down as happening once in a while when i flip either flipper (maybe even when i release the flipper).
I crossed out a switch issue as the slingshot fire without scoring any point. I swapped coils, even swapped the whole slingshot assembly and it always stay with the left side so i thought it was a issue with the ground.
I swapped another brand new solenoid board and i got the exact same problem. I run a new dedicated wire from J2-9 to the slingshot coil and still had the same problem, so it isn't the board or the wire?
I moved J2-1 and 2 (flipper sw) and J2-9 into a new connector and only plugged those 3 in J2, same problem still...
The flipper assy are brand new from PBL and looked like they are wired correctly with diode in the right place as well? How would that even short the left slingshot ground?
Am I missing something here? What would make that sling activate?[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Wish I had a solution for you. Every so often this happens on my Meteor. A flipper will trigger the left sling. Happens once every ten games or so. Sounds like yours might be more frequent.
Quoted from slochar:Get the capacitor off there. It's picking up emf from the flipper field collapsing.
The capacitor on the SW? i had tried that as well, but no difference and again, the switch is not scoring/triggering as the game does not score, only the slingshot coil activate.
My left sling has the same issue with the mis-fires on 1979 code (Meteor) But when I flip the switch to play 2021 code it never happens?!?
Could it be a 1979 software bug?
Quoted from Pinzzz:My left sling has the same issue with the mis-fire on 1979 code. But when I flip the switch to play 2021 code it never happens?!?
Could it be a 1979 software bug?
Not a bug but a feature. The original code fires fast react solenoids differently than things like drop resets.
The code could be massaged to be more resistant to this I tried this on another game to make the slings more sensitive while not machine gunning.
Quoted from hisokajp:The capacitor on the SW? i had tried that as well, but no difference and again, the switch is not scoring/triggering as the game does not score, only the slingshot coil activate.
The game can activate solenoids via a switch trigger and not score. If the closure is short enough this is what happens. It's why the capacitor is there to lengthen short switch hits so they always score.
Quoted from GoldenOreos:I've had this happen randomly on a few sterns we run but rare. not saying this is your issue bc the bracket itself isnt grounded to anything but who knows?
[quoted image]
That's a good catch. That lug touching the angle bracket could possibly feed electricity back through the bolt and possibly be shorting out another lug in the stack.
Quoted from cottonm4:That's a good catch. That lug touching the angle bracket could possibly feed electricity back through the bolt and possibly be shorting out another lug in the stack.
My upper left sling does the same thing, but only since I replaced the original solenoid driver board with a new Alltek one. You guys have helped me try numerous possible fixes, but so far, the phantom kicks persist. I believe this really is a feature of '79-'80 vintage Sterns.
I'm going to look to see if there's a solder tab in contact with any bracket just to be thorough. Still, if that was the case, it should've fired the sling with the original Stern solenoid driver board too.
Quoted from clodpole:My upper left sling does the same thing, but only since I replaced the original solenoid driver board with a new Alltek one. You guys have helped me try numerous possible fixes, but so far, the phantom kicks persist. I believe this really is a feature of '79-'80 vintage Sterns.
I'm going to look to see if there's a solder tab in contact with any bracket just to be thorough. Still, if that was the case, it should've fired the sling with the original Stern solenoid driver board too.
That's strange, I'd expect it in both cases as well since it's the MPU that's getting the signal.
I wonder if the speed of the reading can be changed. Can you burn roms and what game is it you have? I assume either flight 2000 or catacomb since you said upper sling. I'd like to try removing the fast react feature from a test rom set and see if that matters.
I think it's odd though that some people/me *rarely* have this issue. Really, not too often. I've noticed when it does though that it's when I've held up a flipper for a long time and release it.
Quoted from slochar:I've noticed when it does though that it's when I've held up a flipper for a long time and release it.
i can't be 100% since it doesn't happen too often when it does but i have the feeling it is when it triggers. As i release the flipper and EOS make its connection again...? weird-
I had an uneducated hunch recently about this but are you all suggesting there may be phantom triggers related to the newer aftermarket boards? I was thinking about how my F2K and Galaxy don't seem to have misfires on coils but my other classic sterns do. The difference between those two and the others is the original vs aftermarket (both Weebly and Alltek).
I'm not trying to besmirch the good names of Weebly or Alltek, but is that a possibility?
My game is F2K, with Alltek MPU, SDU and Lamp Driver boards. It had a LOUD burp on power-up and no upper left sling phantom kicks before I replaced the SDU with a new Alltek one. Now it doesn't burp, but it does phantom kick.
I think that's a pretty good trade, honestly.
I don't have a way to burn ROMs, so I'm happy to live with it and participate in this discussion.
Quoted from play_pinball:I had an uneducated hunch recently about this but are you all suggesting there may be phantom triggers related to the newer aftermarket boards? I was thinking about how my F2K and Galaxy don't seem to have misfires on coils but my other classic sterns do. The difference between those two and the others is the original vs aftermarket (both Weebly and Alltek).
I'm not trying to besmirch the good names of Weebly or Alltek, but is that a possibility?
Mine has an original board and still misfires on occasion.
Quoted from A_Bord:Mine has an original board and still misfires on occasion.
My Seawitch is running OEM boards and does the misfire occasionally too. I personally think it is electrical noise on the cable harness causing it. The wiring in the game isn't shielded and running in tight bundles.
I think we're all pointing at the same cause... Induced signal on the cabling when the flipper is let go.. that's assuming everyone's is happening at flipper release. I kind of wish I have a game that does this more than rarely I could try the software solution.
It must be a very short transient otherwise we'd be seeing regular switches pick it up as well I'd think and that doesn't seem to happen.
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:The wiring in the game isn't shielded and running in tight bundles.
that was one of my thoughts so i run a dedicated 18AWG cable from SDB slingshot pin directly to the slingshot coil tab (loose throughout the cabinet), and i was still getting the phantom slingshot pop. Considering i tried 2 different SDB (Weebly and Altek) i thought the short would have to go back into the SDB flipper pin back down to the slingshot pin... sounds pretty crazy no?
and obviously when the everything but the slingshot is connected to the SDB the slingshot does not phantom kick, so the signal does originate from it.
Quoted from hisokajp:that was one of my thoughts so i run a dedicated 18AWG cable from SDB slingshot pin directly to the slingshot coil tab (loose throughout the cabinet), and i was still getting the phantom slingshot pop. Considering i tried 2 different SDB (Weebly and Altek) i thought the short would have to go back into the SDB flipper pin back down to the slingshot pin... sounds pretty crazy no?
Remember. Bally and Stern pinballs use 43+ volts for the zero crossing detection.
The program is designed to trigger a fast response solenoid any time a close,close noise
is detected.
Score program is detected on a separate string of code.
I would make sure the switch connector housing has tight male/female connection
and no pulling, hanging stresses on the switch wiring harness.
I think the noise is coming from the cables being bundled together. I have a 6803 games that has always done this really bad. Most of the bally and sterns do it to some extent.
Run new shielded wires for the flippers away from the switch wiring. I would bet that would probably fix it.
so far no luck with all the suggestions, removed the cap entirely, checked all diodes, possible short on sling sw bracket, replaced with an original SDB...
Quoted from vec-tor:Remember. Bally and Stern pinballs use 43+ volts for the zero crossing detection.
The program is designed to trigger a fast response solenoid any time a close,close noise
is detected.
Score program is detected on a separate string of code.
I would make sure the switch connector housing has tight male/female connection
and no pulling, hanging stresses on the switch wiring harness.
interesting, the wiring harness is brand new and i tried with 2 different new MPU as well. the harness isn't tight and the connector to pin look strong?
Quoted from barakandl:I think the noise is coming from the cables being bundled together. I have a 6803 games that does this really bad. Most of the bally and sterns do it to some extent.
Run new shielded wires for the flippers away from the switch wiring. I would bet that would probably fix it.
i am all done for an experiment, will just need to grab some shielded wires. Are you talking Coil power, Coil ground and/or Flipper switch wires going to the SBD J2 like the slingshot?
Quoted from hisokajp:the wiring harness is brand new
If you are really anal, you could cut the ties and shift the wires around...
Or cut the wire harness and separate all of the wires into groups like Williams has done.
1) switch wire harness.
2) lamp wire harness.
3) solenoid wire harness.
I just put a new Weebly in my Lightning but have a problem. The old mpu-200 board worked fine. And the Weebly free play version works fine. But if I select the factory code it's all screwed up, displays, attract lights, can't start a game. It's acting as if I made a mistake in the dip settings but I tried it several times and doublechecked they are right - 10100000 as on the game dip settings chart. This is a brand new board w/ chip dated 8/22 installed. Anybody have any idea what might be the problem? Thank you
f*&K Meteor 7D has been accidently swapped in at rom combo rom line #095. Lightning stock ROM does not work right now. Contact me if you want a new combo ROM chip. If you have a device to re-program a MX29F1615 I can email you the combo ROM file. I will update to version to 2022-09 and fix it or just quietly fix 2022-08 and maybe call it A version since nothing really changed, just mistake corrected..
I think I might just update the combo ROM once or twice a year going forward. Its tedious and easy to make a mistake when keeping 256 game ROM files organized, charted, and then combined in the right way. When I updated the ROM last month I went line by line twice but still overlooked that one. Whoops... sorry.
Quoted from play_pinball:I had an uneducated hunch recently about this but are you all suggesting there may be phantom triggers related to the newer aftermarket boards? I was thinking about how my F2K and Galaxy don't seem to have misfires on coils but my other classic sterns do. The difference between those two and the others is the original vs aftermarket (both Weebly and Alltek).
I'm not trying to besmirch the good names of Weebly or Alltek, but is that a possibility?
I don't think it is related to what circuit board is being used. Been messing with Bally-Stern games heavily last 10 years and they all do it to some extent no matter what board. Some games are for sure worse than others. I have a Special Force that is the worst offender of any of them. It will even get into not fast react switches like once in 100 games it might award a free ramp shot when you let the flipper down.
Perhaps when you release the flipper (at what point in the wave), how big of a spark the EOS makes influences the noise kick. I really think shielded and isolated wires would at least help. Run the flipper wires away from the switch wires.
The switch matrix is pretty sensitive. Another observation. When overhead buzzy fluorescent lamps where on just touching the metal of a switch made that entire return close. Turn off the lights and it stops happening. My body was antenna that fluorescent noise I figure. If you hold a ball in you hand and then touch a switch you will probably close the every switch with the same return.
Been screwing around with WMS and DE power supplies trying to evict the HUM and lamp noise. I noticed the volume pot wire bundled up with lamps is a place noise comes in at. I had the wire ties off and just moving the volume pot wire away from the rest of them reduced the hum, not all of it, but it was noticeable. These pins are noisy and there is cross talk on the wires.
Quoted from barakandl:These pins are noisy and there is cross talk on the wires.
That reminds me of Lonnie Ropp at Data East, talking about trying to program the
first pinball Laser War; When the game was programed at I.T. They had to put the
game on the ground, no legs...doing everything they can to avoid noises and vibrations.
Quoted from barakandl:Perhaps when you release the flipper (at what point in the wave), how big of a spark the EOS makes influences the noise kick. I really think shielded and isolated wires would at least help. Run the flipper wires away from the switch wires.
i'll try that out, i just ordered some 18 AWG Hook-Up, Shielded Wire, i ll run dedicated cables from flipper coils ground tab back to SDB and see if it makes a difference.
Put a spark suppression cap across the EOS and cabinet switches too. Put a new EOS and flipper switches in in if the contacts are really hammered and pitted, fresh contacts i think should spark less. That should help if the spark is the source of noise, which it is probably at least contributing.
Quoted from barakandl:Put a spark suppression cap across the EOS and cabinet switches too. Put a new EOS and flipper switches in in if the contacts are really hammered and pitted, fresh contacts i think should spark less. That should help if the spark is the source of noise, which it is probably at least contributing.
i could definitely swap in some new switches. Which capacitor would you recommend?
Quoted from hisokajp:i could definitely swap in some new switches. Which capacitor would you recommend?
Best practice for flipper switches is,
1) .1mfd 500 volt ceramic disk capacitor for cabinet switches.
Quoted from vec-tor:Best practice for flipper switches is,
1) .1mfd 500 volt ceramic disk capacitor for cabinet switches.
like one of those?
https://www.pinballlife.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=5043-09443-00
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