(Topic ID: 225496)

Stern Electronics Club (1977-1984).

By Mitch

3 years ago


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#6801 72 days ago

I have got a little bit of feedback re the 1st batch of drop targets.

Below from a Aussie Pinsider

"I finally got around to installing these Targets last week , I’ve played at least 30 plus games
It is so satisfying that when you actually hit the targets they drop every single time , no more Bricking , so happy thanks Swinks "

Batch 2 - I have so far 70 targets worth of interest and when I get to 100 targets worth I will order another 150 targets and will carry a few in stock. Send me a pm if you want any Classic Stern Drop Targets.

The thread can be found here:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stern-tombstone-drop-targets-13a-11-any-interest/page/2#post-6890972

aHR0cHM6Ly9vLnBpbnNpZGUuY29tLzcvMmYvYWQvNzJmYWQ3ODBlMzY0NDdjNjAwNjk2MmY1NjJkMmFmM2Q5ZjEwN2E0Yi5qcGc (resized).jpg
#6802 68 days ago

Hello all,

I have asked this in a couple threads but no answers yet.

I snagged this photo from Jjsmooth’s thread on building a Star Gazer. I have sourced the target faces and mounting brackets. What I don’t have yet is a good switch assembly to use for this build. Most of the ones out there are riveted together. Not the end of the world but I would prefer not having to drill them out. PBR has some not riveted but I am not sure which one to go with. Anybody have any good standup target switch recommendation?

CAFB0161-11C4-4B33-A9EA-3E144C434386 (resized).jpeg
#6803 68 days ago

https://www.pinballlife.com/target-switch-no-target-face.html

Round top, fits right into the center of those plastic target faces. Square top will work too, so either way. You can assemble them with any bracket

B8F6254D-4602-4C86-B076-BCBFBD2E8C53 (resized).jpeg
#6804 68 days ago

Delete: Already answered.

#6805 68 days ago
Quoted from play_pinball:

https://www.pinballlife.com/target-switch-no-target-face.html
Round top, fits right into the center of those plastic target faces. Square top will work too, so either way. You can assemble them with any bracket
[quoted image]

Perfect, that was what I was looking for. Thanks.

#6806 67 days ago

Question about the drop target assembly used across the following games as the parts catalog suggests this is a D-393 was the standard assembly across the below games but then the assembly number for each game varies.

Do all the below games use the pictured assembly?

Stingray - D-393
Stars - D-393
Memory Lane - D-393
Lectronamo - D-393
Wild Fyre - D-393
Nugent - D-393
Dracula - D-580
Trident - D548
Hot Hand - D-580
Meteor - D-548
Galaxy - D-548
Magic D-580
Cheetah - D-548 and D-580
Quicksilver - D-580
Ali - D-580
Big Game - D-580
Seawitch - D580
Star Gazer - D580
Flight 2000 - D-580 and D-548
Nine Ball - D-548 and D-580

D-393-3 Drop Target Assembly - common (resized).png
#6807 67 days ago

There's slight variations between the models but they're all essentially the same function. Mostly framing and switch placement differences. Note how the older 393 style has the switches placed on the bottom. Later versions moved the switches to the back. The piece labeled 1B-483-3 is the other notable change. Older versions have the triangular cutout, mid-period are full squared with the drop cutouts still present, then finally it's just a u-shaped bar with an open ledge for another iteration. Hope that makes sense.

#6808 67 days ago
Quoted from play_pinball:

There's slight variations between the models but they're all essentially the same function. Mostly framing and switch placement differences. Note how the older 393 style has the switches placed on the bottom. Later versions moved the switches to the back. The piece labeled 1B-483-3 is the other notable change. Older versions have the triangular cutout, mid-period are full squared with the drop cutouts still present, then finally it's just a u-shaped bar with an open ledge for another iteration. Hope that makes sense.

thanks for that info, seems like a vague time

I was curious first in relation to the drop targets 13A-11 but good to know about the other parts and the slight variances

#6809 67 days ago
Quoted from swinks:

Question about the drop target assembly used across the following games as the parts catalog suggests this is a D-393 was the standard assembly across the below games but then the assembly number for each game varies.
Do all the below games use the pictured assembly?
Stingray - D-393
Stars - D-393
Memory Lane - D-393
Lectronamo - D-393
Wild Fyre - D-393
Nugent - D-393
Dracula - D-580
Trident - D548
Hot Hand - D-580
Meteor - D-548
Galaxy - D-548
Magic D-580
Cheetah - D-548 and D-580
Quicksilver - D-580
Ali - D-580
Big Game - D-580
Seawitch - D580
Star Gazer - D580
Flight 2000 - D-580 and D-548
Nine Ball - D-548 and D-580[quoted image]

Stern used:

3-bank drop target assemblies.

4-bank drop assys.

5-bank drop assys. Also memory targets

6-bank drop assys. Memory target

8-bank drop assys. Memory.

Nine Ball and Catacomb used a different method of attaching the switches to the back of the target cage. The switch mounting brackets will not interchange.

#6810 67 days ago

swinks is asking about the drop targets themselves. Not the mechs, at least that's what I gather from these posts: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stern-tombstone-drop-targets-13a-11-any-interest/page/2#post-6956649

Anyway, just to clean up the facts here: Orbitor 1 actually has a game-specific 7-bank memory coil assembly. The 8-bank you mentioned is actually a 9-bank. It's the same mech in Flight 2000, just with more or less targets (5 in Flight 2000, 8 in Nine Ball). No game used all 9 target slots but it's capable of that many. The switches attached to the "back of the cage" is common amongst many other titles beyond Catacomb and Nine Ball.

Here's a pic of Big Game target bank I happen to have next to me. Note it has the enclosed top, switches placed on the back, and the original targets in it because the "6" target has never been reproduced (this comment for swinks to show the hooded vs tombstone example).
D779F9DA-C044-43C7-9A62-B10B6146BA0D_1_105_c (resized).jpeg
E803045A-77B0-4126-A883-684E5249E2DD_1_105_c (resized).jpeg

#6811 66 days ago

I have an extra coin door lockout coil I can part with. The coil looks OK butI don't know if it works. PRB sells replacements: part number C-36- 5600

I don't know what it is worth. I am going to ask $45.00 for it. Offers will be considered. First come first served. Send me a PM if interested.

If we make a deal I will put an ad in Pinside Marketplace and give Pinside its sales percentage.

IMG_0111 (resized).JPG

IMG_0112 (resized).JPG

#6812 65 days ago

Anybody have a diagram of the Star Gazer backbox light board showing the placement / position of all the holes? I am going to use my Meteor one as an outer template but need the Star Gazer specific info to get all the holes correct.

#6813 65 days ago
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:

Anybody have a diagram of the Star Gazer backbox light board showing the placement / position of all the holes? I am going to use my Meteor one as an outer template but need the Star Gazer specific info to get all the holes correct.

I believe Easy Pinball has the part made.

#6814 65 days ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

I believe Easy Pinball has the part made.

Thanks, I didn't know that. They charge a lot to do it. $249 + $40 shipping seems kinda pricey. It is a solid plan B but I like to make what I can when doing restores / builds.

#6815 64 days ago

I used this Quicksilver template and just moved the lamp placements around, using this photo as a guide. I can't find the file I modified unfortunately but it's pretty straightforward. I didn't use any fancy software, literally modified it in preview on my mac.

Quicksilver Lamp Board Template
Star Gazer lamp board

#6816 64 days ago
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:

Thanks, I didn't know that. They charge a lot to do it. $249 + $40 shipping seems kinda pricey. It is a solid plan B but I like to make what I can when doing restores / builds.

Wow! I made a few last summer and sold them for $100.00 + 20.00 shipping

#6817 64 days ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

Wow! I made a few last summer and sold them for $100.00 + 20.00 shipping

Want to make another one?

#6818 64 days ago

So the OEM light board looks to be 3/4" particle board. What is everyone using as a modern day replacement (MDF, plywood or particle board)? I have nice 3/4" plywood on hand.

#6819 64 days ago

I used some 3/4” ply that I saved from scrap years ago. Filled, primed, painted, and sealed. Here it is. Note, I did make some lamp placement customizations, like following the arch of STAR GAZER more on the backglass.

7F2697F6-2DBD-4747-90DE-804EC2FE07B5.jpeg
#6820 64 days ago

I did forget that the display cutouts seemed to be slightly higher on SG but they still worked just fine. Just had to get them lined up once the game was ready.

#6821 64 days ago
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:

Want to make another one?

I could make you one but I am out of material. I would need 4 people to step up before I could make another one.

I went with a product called MDO. Google it.

This was the only wood sheet product on the shelf that was not warped. Then I researched and figured it would make great lamp board material. I was not disappointed.

And this MDO was only available from Menards. Lowe’s and Home Depot do not carry it.

#6822 64 days ago

MDO seems like a great choice. I was kidding (mostly) about you making me one. Thank you for a very tempting offer. I think I will try my luck and do it myself this weekend. I have this fancy plywood I have left over from a cabinet project. It is super smooth and really overkill for a light board but should work great.

#6823 64 days ago

Well I cut out the light board shape. So far so good. Need to figure out where to cut the holes for Star Gazer now.

20220604_134950 (resized).jpg
#6824 64 days ago

Scratch built Quicksilver I put out at my location yesterday.

DE337847-02F5-4104-938C-E5A2E54DDC29 (resized).jpeg
#6825 64 days ago
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:

Well I cut out the light board shape. So far so good. Need to figure out where to cut the holes for Star Gazer now.
[quoted image]

I ran the Uno PCB through the photocopier at work and taped in place.

f2a260f55dba06840f273e5c624629cc39af740f (resized).jpg
#6826 64 days ago
Quoted from Tsskinne:

Scratch built Quicksilver I put out at my location yesterday.

Oddly enough, that Wild Fyre cabinet works (in a revisionist history sort of way… it feels unnatural but is hard to turn away from)

#6827 63 days ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

I ran the Uno PCB through the photocopier at work and taped in place.
[quoted image]

That is exactly what I'm going to do too. I am going to mount the board as is into my backbox and install the backglass. That way there will be no doubt on placement. I am now waiting for my backglass trim it arrive.

#6828 63 days ago
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:

That is exactly what I'm going to do too. I am going to mount the board as is into my backbox and install the backglass. That way there will be no doubt on placement. I am now waiting for my backglass trim it arrive.

This is the way I get the displays centered up, too.

#6829 63 days ago

I have a Classic Stern pop bumper housing question. I have a totally rebuilt set of Stern generation 1 pop bumpers (with the metal housing) in my spare parts stash. Star Gazer doesn't use these so know I need to purchase the plastic pop bumper housings. What else do I need to purchase to complete these assemblies? I was trying to find the Classic Stern schematic of this assembly but couldn't. I know I can move over my rings, rods, skirts, bodies, coils and caps over to the new housing, but I think I'm still missing some mounting brackets. What other items do I need? Any help is appreciated.

#6830 63 days ago
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:

I have a Classic Stern pop bumper housing question. I have a totally rebuilt set of Stern generation 1 pop bumpers (with the metal housing) in my spare parts stash. Star Gazer doesn't use these so know I need to purchase the plastic pop bumper housings. What else do I need to purchase to complete these assemblies? I was trying to find the Classic Stern schematic of this assembly but couldn't. I know I can move over my rings, rods, skirts, bodies, coils and caps over to the new housing, but I think I'm still missing some mounting brackets. What other items do I need? Any help is appreciated.

Dude just order the modern stern/sega/data east pop bumper assemblies from pinball life. Time saver big time.

https://www.pinballlife.com/desega-pop-bumper-assembly.html

#6831 63 days ago
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:

I have a Classic Stern pop bumper housing question. I have a totally rebuilt set of Stern generation 1 pop bumpers (with the metal housing) in my spare parts stash. Star Gazer doesn't use these so know I need to purchase the plastic pop bumper housings. What else do I need to purchase to complete these assemblies? I was trying to find the Classic Stern schematic of this assembly but couldn't. I know I can move over my rings, rods, skirts, bodies, coils and caps over to the new housing, but I think I'm still missing some mounting brackets. What other items do I need? Any help is appreciated.

Maybe this'll help? From the 1981 Stern Parts Catalog....

Early Stern Pop Bumper Assembly (1981 Parts Catalog) (resized).jpg
#6832 63 days ago
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:

I have a Classic Stern pop bumper housing question. I have a totally rebuilt set of Stern generation 1 pop bumpers (with the metal housing) in my spare parts stash. Star Gazer doesn't use these so know I need to purchase the plastic pop bumper housings. What else do I need to purchase to complete these assemblies? I was trying to find the Classic Stern schematic of this assembly but couldn't. I know I can move over my rings, rods, skirts, bodies, coils and caps over to the new housing, but I think I'm still missing some mounting brackets. What other items do I need? Any help is appreciated.

Quoted from Tsskinne:

Dude just order the modern stern/sega/data east pop bumper assemblies from pinball life. Time saver big time.
https://www.pinballlife.com/desega-pop-bumper-assembly.html

What he said. Or if you don't like the PL price of $49.95 you can buy from Marco for $89.00.

If you just want to buy the plastic bases you will also need to build or buy these items.

Item #9

Item # 12

Item # 17

Item #24

I recall having problems with item #23 yoke. I can't recall what it was but you should probably buy an item #23 as well.

Or just buy the PL units.

Screen Shot 2022-06-06 at 5.58.57 AM (resized).jpg

#6833 63 days ago

You probably won’t find the coil mounting plate (#24) listed anywhere but you can special order it from Pinball Life.

I’ve transferred parts from the Gen 1 pops to these Gen 2 pops many times now. Never personally had a problem reusing the front coil plate (#23).

Also, these are a perfect substitute coil stop over the more expensive Classic Stern ones (in pops at least, I can’t recall using them on other mechs). Same height stop and the holes are spaced correctly. I believe it’s actually what the assembled units ship with but I’ve honestly never purchased the full assembly. https://www.pinballlife.com/williams-flipper-coil-stop-a-8143.html
(Pic just to show the coil stop)

4F6DF1B3-6A45-4BB7-8A2F-B0B0CEF0B6B1 (resized).jpeg
#6834 63 days ago
Quoted from play_pinball:

You probably won’t find the coil mounting plate (#24) listed anywhere but you can special order it from Pinball Life.

They have it listed on their site now. I know because I requested it!

https://www.pinballlife.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=535-7419-00

#6835 62 days ago

Thanks everyone. I was just going to order the parts I needed to do the swap between the old and new styles. After adding it up, I realized it is better if I just buy the complete assemblies. That should same me some headaches plus I can recouped some coin by selling my old generation 1 pop assemblies.

#6836 62 days ago
Quoted from frunch:

They have it listed on their site now. I know because I requested it!
https://www.pinballlife.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=535-7419-00

Sweet! I always felt bad bothering Margaret for $6 worth of parts LOL.

#6837 62 days ago
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:

Thanks everyone. I was just going to order the parts I needed to do the swap between the old and new styles. After adding it up, I realized it is better if I just buy the complete assemblies. That should same me some headaches plus I can recouped some coin by selling my old generation 1 pop assemblies.

Yep, cost and time it just works out better.

#6838 62 days ago

[***SOLD***] Cross posted from the Seawitch club. I'm selling a very nice Greatwich Seawitch repro. New, never installed. $525 + shipping from 63122. One small drip in the clear can be sanded out or ignored completely. Will consider local project trades.

PXL_20210929_171439262 (resized).jpgPXL_20210929_171705617 (resized).jpgPXL_20210929_171708562 (resized).jpgPXL_20210929_171711267 (resized).jpgPXL_20210929_171715399 (resized).jpgPXL_20210929_171639474 (resized).jpgPXL_20210929_174016432 (resized).jpg

#6839 59 days ago

I've got a Stern Viper that I could use some help with. When powering it up, it works about half the time. The other half, the red light on the MPU locks on an the game doesn't start. I measured the voltages at the test points and got the following:

TP1 - 4.95 V
TP2 - 15.87 V
TP3 - 23.3 V
TP5 - 4.97 V

Do any of these seem high? I have an Altek solenoid driver board installed and an original Stern MPU-200.

Thanks for any help you can give.

#6840 59 days ago
Quoted from n1teowl:

I've got a Stern Viper that I could use some help with. When powering it up, it works about half the time. The other half, the red light on the MPU locks on an the game doesn't start. I measured the voltages at the test points and got the following:
TP1 - 4.95 V
TP2 - 15.87 V
TP3 - 23.3 V
TP5 - 4.97 V
Do any of these seem high? I have an Altek solenoid driver board installed and an original Stern MPU-200.
Thanks for any help you can give.

Have you redone your connectors?

#6841 59 days ago

Well done Tommy!

#6842 59 days ago

I'm an advocate for the new boards, to me they are well worth their cost, but not redoing the connectors and no guarantees any of your problems are going anywhere, took me awhile to learn that. Now I just take a day or two and go through every connector on a game and save myself lots of headaches, especially since I'm putting so many of the solid states on location.

#6843 59 days ago
Quoted from Tsskinne:

I'm an advocate for the new boards, to me they are well worth their cost, but not redoing the connectors and no guarantees any of your problems are going anywhere, took me awhile to learn that. Now I just take a day or two and go through every connector on a game and save myself lots of headaches, especially since I'm putting so many of the solid states on location.

Thanks for the advice. I've only had a cursory look at the connectors. I'm going to take a closer look and potentially redo some of the power connectors to see if that helps.

#6844 59 days ago
Quoted from n1teowl:

I've got a Stern Viper that I could use some help with. When powering it up, it works about half the time. The other half, the red light on the MPU locks on an the game doesn't start. I measured the voltages at the test points and got the following:
TP1 - 4.95 V
TP2 - 15.87 V
TP3 - 23.3 V
TP5 - 4.97 V
Do any of these seem high? I have an Altek solenoid driver board installed and an original Stern MPU-200.
Thanks for any help you can give.

i would test the board in order based on section 4.8 as you test them.
https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Bally/Stern#First_Things_First_.28WIP.29

Connectors are definitely a big one, especially upper right on SDB and bottom left on MPU

#6845 58 days ago

A problem started occurring on my Meteor last night that I've not encountered before and I'm looking for some guidance.

I restored this machine 6 months / ~200 games ago and I haven't had the glass off or the backbox open since March till last night when I noticed this behavior.

Meteor has 6 switches that will spot (drop) a drop target in the METEOR bank if the corresponding switch lamp is lit:

Upper Rollover
Middle Rollover
Lower Rollover
Stand-Up Target
Left Return Lane
Right Return Lane

The problem is with the Left Return Lane. When the SPOT TARGET light is off, the switch registers correctly and awards 500 points. When the SPOT TARGET light is on, the switch still registers 500 points and does NOT drop one of the METEOR drop targets. The Right Return Lane, along with all of the others besides the Left Return Lane, operate normally with the correct points (500 with the SPOT TARGET lamp off) and dropping a METEOR target if the lamp is lit (and awarding 2000 points).

Here's the kicker: If the Right Return Lane SPOT TARGET lamp is lit, and the Left Return Lane SPOT TARGET lamp is NOT lit, and you roll over the Left Return Lane switch, a METEOR target will drop and the score achieved is 2000. As if the Left Return Lane SPOT TARGET lamp was lit.

So mechanically, everything seems to work so I'm not suspecting any wiring or connector issues. Which leaves some sort of logic problem. Not sure where to start? Note: the MPU is a one-year old Alltek.

Thanks in advance for any advice....

#6846 58 days ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

A problem started occurring on my Meteor last night that I've not encountered before and I'm looking for some guidance.
I restored this machine 6 months / ~200 games ago and I haven't had the glass off or the backbox open since March till last night when I noticed this behavior.
Meteor has 6 switches that will spot (drop) a drop target in the METEOR bank if the corresponding switch lamp is lit:
Upper Rollover
Middle Rollover
Lower Rollover
Stand-Up Target
Left Return Lane
Right Return Lane
The problem is with the Left Return Lane. When the SPOT TARGET light is off, the switch registers correctly and awards 500 points. When the SPOT TARGET light is on, the switch still registers 500 points and does NOT drop one of the METEOR drop targets. The Right Return Lane, along with all of the others besides the Left Return Lane, operate normally with the correct points (500 with the SPOT TARGET lamp off) and dropping a METEOR target if the lamp is lit (and awarding 2000 points).
Here's the kicker: If the Right Return Lane SPOT TARGET lamp is lit, and the Left Return Lane SPOT TARGET lamp is NOT lit, and you roll over the Left Return Lane switch, a METEOR target will drop and the score achieved is 2000. As if the Left Return Lane SPOT TARGET lamp was lit.
So mechanically, everything seems to work so I'm not suspecting any wiring or connector issues. Which leaves some sort of logic problem. Not sure where to start? Note: the MPU is a one-year old Alltek.
Thanks in advance for any advice....

So in coil test all 6 of your memory (meteor) drop targets drop? That is a tough mechanism to get dialed in.

#6847 58 days ago
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:

So in coil test all 6 of your memory (meteor) drop targets drop? That is a tough mechanism to get dialed in.

Yes, the METEOR DT bank works correctly in self test.

The really odd thing here is that the Left Return Lane will spot a target in the METEOR bank (and award the expected 2000 points) but only when the opposite Right Return Lane has the SPOT TARGET light lit.

Here's a kind of Truth Table of what my machine is currently doing with the red being incorrect behavior:
Return Lane Truth Table (resized).jpg

And all other switches the can spot a drop target in that bank (the yellow Stand-Up target and the three rollovers) all work correctly.

#6848 58 days ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

Yes, the METEOR DT bank works correctly in self test.
The really odd thing here is that the Left Return Lane will spot a target in the METEOR bank (and award the expected 2000 points) but only when the opposite Right Return Lane has the SPOT TARGET light lit.
Here's a kind of Truth Table of what my machine is currently doing with the red being incorrect behavior:
[quoted image]
And all other switches the can spot a drop target in that bank (the yellow Stand-Up target and the three rollovers) all work correctly.

Don't know if this will help but it's worth trying.

Screenshot_20220610-205258_Chrome (resized).jpg
#6849 58 days ago
Quoted from LOTR_breath:

Don't know if this will help but it's worth trying.

Ya, it was worth a try, but no change in behavior after clearing. I still have the original MPU for this Meteor but it has some reset issues that I haven't fixed yet. It does come up sometimes - maybe I'll try swapping it in and in one of the times it actually boots to attract mode, I'll see if I still have the LRT Spot Target issue.

#6850 57 days ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

Here's the kicker: If the Right Return Lane SPOT TARGET lamp is lit, and the Left Return Lane SPOT TARGET lamp is NOT lit, and you roll over the Left Return Lane switch, a METEOR target will drop and the score achieved is 2000. As if the Left Return Lane SPOT TARGET lamp was lit.

Got it. Wires for both the LRL and RRL route back to the top left 3 drop target bank (middle and lower targets). I found a small screw lodged in that switch bank shorting the W-G I4 wire. I haven't found where the screw came from yet, but vibrations from the last 6 months of playing must've shook it loose from somewhere. I'll look more closely in the morning.

System is behaving correctly now. Thank you for switch test suggestion, slochar!

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