(Topic ID: 225496)

Stern Electronics Club (1977-1984).

By Mitch

3 years ago


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  • Latest reply 5 hours ago by cottonm4
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#6751 80 days ago
Quoted from koji:

[edit]
Oh sorry, just saw you specifically meant MPU.
------
Just be aware, there may be some errors in the original schematics.. I know mine had a wire mismatched. I think it was related to the bumper coil from the driver board.

Ah yeah thought I might be going crazy, can’t seem to find wire colors per connector for the MPU anywhere in the schematics

#6752 80 days ago
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:

How is the one and only stand-up target on Meteor wired up. I think mine had a diode and cap at one time but those were removed. Meteor 2021 uses that target a lot and I need it more responsive. This is what I did. Is it correct?

Here's mine. When I got my Meteor project, the standup target would register only on soft hits/glancing blows, never a hard direct hit. I added the cap during my restoration and 2021 update, and it registers all hits 100% of the time now.

Looks like your cap is not in the correct position so it's acting like it's not there. Move it to correct leg and it'll probably work.
Stand Up Target (resized).jpg

#6754 80 days ago

Wiring a diode:

This is for Meteor. For wiring up the lower R.O.B.

The column wire is Yellow-Red ( Y-R )

The row wire is Orange ( O )

Screen Shot 2022-05-21 at 8.32.04 PM (resized).jpg

Method #1

This method places the non-banded side of the diode in the center lug, along with one leg of capacitor wire. This is the way I have settled on wiring a diode with the non-banded side in the middle lug by itself or along with a cap wire.

IMG_9898 (resized).jpg

Method #2

This is an alternate way. It is the same setup. The only thing that has changed is that the O wire sits by itself; The diode banded side sits in the middle lug; And the diode non-banded side sits with the Y-R wire.

IMG_9903 (resized).jpg

I have had struggle with this diode stuff for the longest time.

Now I go with Method #1

1) the the diode banded side goes with the Orange row wire.

2) the diode non-banded side goes into the middle lug, with or without a cap wire.

3) the cap shares one wire with the non-banded side of the diode in center lug and shares its other wire with the column wire.

#6755 80 days ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

Here's mine. When I got my Meteor project, the standup target would register only on soft hits/glancing blows, never a hard direct hit. I added the cap during my restoration and 2021 update, and it registers all hits 100% of the time now.
Looks like your cap is not in the correct position so it's acting like it's not there. Move it to correct leg and it'll probably work.
[quoted image]

Which side is the diode band on, please? It does not show up in your pic.

#6756 80 days ago
Quoted from dddanielll:

Can someone with a Stars or MPU-100 game send a few closeups of the MPU connectors? Having a lot of trouble tracing down some gremlins on mine. One coil not firing at all. Some coils misfiring intermittently. Checked schematics but none seem to have wiring colors for the MPU connectors specifically.

Sorry, not a close-up.. but all I have ATM. maybe resolution is good enough to help.

20220426_161501 (resized).jpg
#6757 80 days ago

I guess we’re moving this conversation from the Big Game thread to here now. I seriously don’t understand why the banded side to any wire would be the “correct” setup. It’s never that way in games I restore. The ONLY switches I’ve encountered where any wires connect to the banded side of the diode are the two spinners on Big Game.

I’ll zoom in on TheLaw’s picture that I posted with arrows in that thread.
EFC7366F-DE4A-459E-8842-66934EBFA876.jpeg
0FBFE536-2940-419A-A11E-3CA7E30FE807.jpeg
B75D5831-1536-4E9C-96B7-7797DFCCB08B.jpeg

I’ll add another picture from a Flight 2000 drop target assembly. Banded side is always on the “unwired” lug (with the exception of the Big Game spinners, in MY experience).
BF794A48-CC0E-4DDD-A116-82657A2AC279.jpeg
2D1DAF82-8B1C-4CC5-8D44-5C6F87A7D04F.jpeg

#6758 80 days ago
Quoted from dddanielll:

Can someone with a Stars or MPU-100 game send a few closeups of the MPU connectors? Having a lot of trouble tracing down some gremlins on mine. One coil not firing at all. Some coils misfiring intermittently. Checked schematics but none seem to have wiring colors for the MPU connectors specifically.

Your MPU is called out as A4 on the drawing.

Your switches are all on connector J2.

A4-J2-1 = MPU-connector J2- pin #1 which is a white-red wire (W-R)

A4-J2-2 is Brown-White wire.

pin #3 is W-Blu

Pin #4 is W-Y

Pin #5 is Y-R

Pin #8 is BRN

Pin #9 is grey

And so on.

This is your switch matrix.

Screen Shot 2022-05-21 at 9.29.58 PM (resized).jpg
=================================

Your solenoids are on the SDU. The SDU is called out as A3.

Your rectifier board is A2

The BLU-W wire that powers your flippers is A2-J1-6.

Left sling shot is A3-J5-8 that is a Red-Black R-B wire.

Right sling shot is A3-J5-14 that is a Black-Yellow B-Y wire.

I have found that sometimes Stern did not use a color called on the print. One wire on my Big Game is called out as Purple-Black and what is there is purple-white. There are 4 wires on my Big Game that do not match the print. I have the issue with the Quicksilver I am building. My thoughts are that Stern ran out of a particular color of wire and instead of shutting the line down so Stern substituted with wire it did have in stock.

This is your solenoid matrix

Screen Shot 2022-05-21 at 9.30.30 PM (resized).jpg

All of your colors are listed
===============================

Here is your lamp wiring. All colors are listed on the left side.

Screen Shot 2022-05-21 at 9.57.50 PM (resized).jpg

#6759 80 days ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

Here's mine. When I got my Meteor project, the standup target would register only on soft hits/glancing blows, never a hard direct hit. I added the cap during my restoration and 2021 update, and it registers all hits 100% of the time now.
Looks like your cap is not in the correct position so it's acting like it's not there. Move it to correct leg and it'll probably work.
[quoted image]

OK - I have had dinner so I'm thinking better. This is correct if your diode is facing the open lug. Everybody agree?

diode (resized).jpg
#6760 80 days ago
Quoted from play_pinball:

I guess we’re moving this conversation from the Big Game thread to here now. I seriously don’t understand why the banded side to any wire would be the “correct” setup. It’s never that way in games I restore. The ONLY switches I’ve encountered where any wires connect to the banded side of the diode are the two spinners on Big Game.
I’ll zoom in on TheLaw’s picture that I posted with arrows in that thread.
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
I’ll add another picture from a Flight 2000 drop target assembly. Banded side is always on the “unwired” lug (with the exception of the Big Game spinners, in MY experience).
[quoted image]
[quoted image]

Yours and my Method #2 are wired just alike. Except your has no cap.

37612919392036de9c695ed4792384ce336adc71 (resized).jpg

176c54f01089d44014ad6db5a80ab3cc6951119b (resized).jpg

#6761 80 days ago
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:

OK - I have had dinner so I'm thinking better. This is correct if your diode is facing the open lug. Everybody agree?
[quoted image]

Which side is the banded side? Left side? Or right side?

What is the open lug? All three lugs have something on.

#6762 80 days ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

Which side is the banded side? Left side? Or right side?
What is the open lug? All three lugs have something on.

I mocked it up. Open lug is the one without a wire feeding it and the band is on the right side facing the open lug.

diode1 (resized).jpg
#6763 80 days ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

Yours and my Method #2 are wired just alike. Except your has no cap.
[quoted image]
[quoted image]

But again, no this is not how any other setup I’ve encountered. Here is an unclipped switch from a Big Game parts pf with the (assumed) original diode and cap.
A2779BC6-D6BE-4698-B14B-B7F467554A83 (resized).jpegA3C57B95-391A-4DDC-8C12-3DD26FB76DB6 (resized).jpeg

#6764 80 days ago

1) Stern spot target:
IMG_0001[1] (resized).JPGIMG_0002[1] (resized).JPGIMG_0003[1] (resized).JPG
Note: side solder lug has the anode side of diode
----- strobe 0, 1, 2, 3, 4 wires go to the solder lug.
----- cathode side of diode is attached to back side leaf switch lug.
----- return switch strobe line is attached to front leaf switch solder lug.
----- Capacitor is attached across the two leaf switch lugs.
----- The capacitor is bridged between the cathode diode & return switch strobe.
----- The silver band denotes the cathode side of the diode.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
2) Stern rollover switches
IMG_0004[1] (resized).JPG
Note: side lug has anode side of diode
------ Capacitor would be bridge exactly as spot target above,
------ from center two lugs.

#6765 80 days ago

These 2 are all alike

33bf3153b11b37c6ad967cc7eedee8d0c26d424e (resized).jpg

fce2ebda7566dba004ba5716c68f69bb1341b223 (resized).jpg

This one is the same except no cap.

d92b515fe6b4e3949fa59315075b4f13b9df1cb8 (resized).jpg

My Method #2 is the same but it looks like I have the cap wired incorrectly.

176c54f01089d44014ad6db5a80ab3cc6951119b (resized).jpg

#6766 80 days ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

Which side is the diode band on, please? It does not show up in your pic.

Non-banded side to lug White w/ Red wire, banded side to middle lug w/ no wire.

#6767 79 days ago
Quoted from play_pinball:

I seriously don’t understand why the banded side to any wire would be the “correct” setup. It’s never that way in games I restore. The ONLY switches I’ve encountered where any wires connect to the banded side of the diode are the two spinners on Big Game.

What's happened is the diode has been moved onto the 'other side' of the switch. See below in red. There is nothing electrically wrong with this - it's just not the standard way everyone's used to. The diode is still electrically oriented in the same direction.

BigGame_SpinnerSwitchWiring.png

#6768 79 days ago

I damn near tagged you in my quest for an answer Quench

Thanks as always!

#6769 79 days ago
Quoted from play_pinball:

The ONLY switches I’ve encountered where any wires connect to the banded side of the diode are the two spinners on Big Game.

The reason this has been done is because one of the switch leafs is mechanically and electrically connected to the spinner and spinner frame.
Both spinner frames are screwed together on this game at the post between the spinners.
Wiring the spinners in the normal way would result in two switch return lines becoming shorted when both spinners are spinning and the spinner switches make contact at the same time. This can result in ghosted switch activations within the matrix.

Placing the diodes on the other side of these switches allows the switch return signals to be isolated from another in this dual spinner setup.

#6770 79 days ago
Quoted from Quench:

The reason this has been done is because one of the switch leafs is mechanically and electrically connected to the spinner and spinner frame.
Both spinner frames are screwed together on this game at the post between the spinners.
Wiring the spinners in the normal way would result in two switch return lines becoming shorted when both spinners are spinning and the spinner switches make contact at the same time. This can result in ghosted switch activations within the matrix.
Placing the diodes on the other side of these switches allows the switch return signals to be isolated from another in this dual spinner setup.

Interesting. That for sure could throw someone for a loop who did not take down notes when breaking these switches down for restoration. I feel like got lucky on my BG restore.

#6771 79 days ago

All fixed. Thanks for the help everyone.

20220522_124816 (resized).jpg
#6772 79 days ago
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:

All fixed. Thanks for the help everyone.
[quoted image]

You need some more solder on there for sure

#6773 79 days ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

You need some more solder on there for sure

I had the switch completely out. They are solder on the other side of the lugs. All wires went trough the lug holes. .

#6774 78 days ago

Sorry to interrupt, but...

Further my education please: under what circumstances would you replace an original Stern SDU board with an aftermarket one?

#6775 78 days ago
Quoted from clodpole:

Sorry to interrupt, but...
Further my education please: under what circumstances would you replace an original Stern SDU board with an aftermarket one?

It is mostly the easy thing to do. A lot of people don’t have the skills to repair an original one. This means it needs to be sent out for repair which costs money and time. Replacements aren’t expensive so pulling the trigger on one isn’t a big deal. OEM boards start sounding bad as the caps age. I prefer replacing the caps but I do see the appeal of just replacing the board.

#6776 78 days ago

Can anyone confirm that the diodes on this Seawitch upper flipper coil are configured incorrectly and should both be the same?

20220522_094824 (resized).jpg
#6777 78 days ago
Quoted from rstrunks:

Can anyone confirm that the diodes on this Seawitch upper flipper coil are configured incorrectly and should both be the same?
[quoted image]

yea its incorrect. should be banded side of diode on middle lug and power lug

#6778 78 days ago

I had a go at making a replacement slingshot pin. Worked out great - quite a bit of work though.

Starting with a 5/16" bolt, metal is similar mild steel to the originals which were not made from high tensile steel. I hand filed it down until it fitted the sleeve firmly, then emery & polished it so it was turning without binding.

I made the pin a little longer than original to accommodate a washer in between the retaining clip & the sleeve, the retaining clip had already worn indents from the pin rubbing against the sleeve end (indents can be seen in the pic)

A groove was them made for the retaining pin with a combination of a couple of hack saw cuts & then small needle files to square off the recess. This was the most time consuming part of the process.

The peened end of the old pin was filed off & then punched out, drilled a new hole from both sides halfway so the drill bit would not catch using a 1/4" drill, from there just needed to open it out slightly with a round file to achieve a tight fit. Then I checked the final fit with the retaining clip installed before brazing the pin in.

Only the slightest of movement now, just enough so it won't bind.
IMG_0906 (resized).JPGIMG_0907 (resized).JPGIMG_0945 (resized).JPGIMG_0948 (resized).JPGIMG_0950 (resized).JPG

#6779 78 days ago
Quoted from rstrunks:

Can anyone confirm that the diodes on this Seawitch upper flipper coil are configured incorrectly and should both be the same?
[quoted image]

Here is how it should look.

Banded side of diode points to BLU-W power wire on right hand lug.

Orange wire goes on the left lug.

The 2 EOS wires go to the left lug with the orange wire and the middle lug. One of your EOS wires in on the Blu-W wire. That is incorrect.

IMG_9952 (resized).jpg

If you did this soldering, I don't mean to be unkind, but you need to take some soldering lessons.

621971a30f7b045357ac2960872f15a546f3f72e (resized).jpg

#6780 78 days ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

If you did this soldering, I don't mean to be unkind, but you need to take some soldering lessons

I didn’t want to say anything, but they would do well to trim those wires back and clean up up those terminals.

#6781 78 days ago
Quoted from bigguybbr:

I didn’t want to say anything, but they would do well to trim those wires back and clean up up those terminals.

Yeah, its kind of like telling someone they have bad breath. They need to hear it but you hate to say it.

#6782 78 days ago
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:

It is mostly the easy thing to do. A lot of people don’t have the skills to repair an original one. This means it needs to be sent out for repair which costs money and time. Replacements aren’t expensive so pulling the trigger on one isn’t a big deal. OEM boards start sounding bad as the caps age. I prefer replacing the caps but I do see the appeal of just replacing the board.

I was unclear (I think) - I meant the Solenoid Driver board. Does it have something to do with sound as well?

#6783 78 days ago
Quoted from clodpole:

I was unclear (I think) - I meant the Solenoid Driver board. Does it have something to do with sound as well?

Sorry, I should have caught that. Stern driver boards kinda suck. The Bally boards of the same time period are better. Bally used heavier traces. As a result, the Stern ones are more prone to trace failures. Modern day replacements run cooler, aren't 40 years old and have extra features like Led lights and extra circuit protection. I like OEM but I can fix it if something goes wrong. I always recommend aftermarket stuff to my customers for the reliability of the new components.

#6784 77 days ago

Look what the UPS guy dropped off last night.

20220524_062435 (resized).jpg
#6785 77 days ago
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:

Look what the UPS guy dropped off last night.
[quoted image]

Nice! Mine did too!
Here's a pic with a couple plastics from marco(cpr?) A bit darker, but I think they'll look fine. Especially once lit from beneath.
It's a beautiful pf, can't wait to get started on it!

20220523_184354 (resized).jpg
#6786 77 days ago
Quoted from PinZig:

Nice! Mine did too!
Here's a pic with a couple plastics from marco(cpr?) A bit darker, but I think they'll look fine. Especially once lit from beneath.
It's a beautiful pf, can't wait to get started on it!
[quoted image]

I think the color of the plastics will be fine once they are backlit. I am a little surprised we didn’t receive the rollover plastics with our orders. No big deal. They are easy to get these days. The quality looks great.

#6787 77 days ago
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:

Look what the UPS guy dropped off last night.
[quoted image]

I'm looking for a loaded or even semi loaded Meteor playfield if someone has one for sale.

#6788 77 days ago

Glad to see new playfields going out. I do not miss the crap about the color of the playfields could be darker for blue. Almost a year since I sold the business & my health has improved from less stress dealing with a few perfectionists.

#6789 77 days ago
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:

Sorry, I should have caught that. Stern driver boards kinda suck. The Bally boards of the same time period are better. Bally used heavier traces. As a result, the Stern ones are more prone to trace failures. Modern day replacements run cooler, aren't 40 years old and have extra features like Led lights and extra circuit protection. I like OEM but I can fix it if something goes wrong. I always recommend aftermarket stuff to my customers for the reliability of the new components.

Thanks! And, congratulations on your Stargazer. I got to play one at my friend James' house recently - it's a beautiful and fun game.

#6790 77 days ago
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:

I think the color of the plastics will be fine once they are backlit. I am a little surprised we didn’t receive the rollover plastics with our orders. No big deal. They are easy to get these days. The quality looks great.

The artwork of original plastics has been scanned and sent to be digitally remastered so that correct colour matched parts can be provided.

Fantastic Pinball Inc

#6791 77 days ago
Quoted from FantasticPinball:

The artwork of original plastics has been scanned and sent to be digitally remastered so that correct colour matched parts can be provided.
Fantastic Pinball Inc

Excellent - when will those be available? Doing the backglass also?

#6792 76 days ago
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:

Excellent - when will those be available? Doing the backglass also?

I had a look at the backglass art last night. I saw one of the previous reproductions next to an original glass and hated it, so I will have to do some work to ensure any new repro can pass for an original. If the quality can’t be achieved, I won’t do it. I will chase that down a bit this week.
Can someone post a photo of the backside of the repro and an original?

Fantastic

#6793 76 days ago

Quick question for any Big Game owners or knowledgable parties...is there any way to smooth out what is happening on my machine when a ball is trapped up on the lower flippers? I will link a video below of what I mean...but the top flipper smashes into the ball immediately, causing it to bounce and act wild coming down the flipper. I'd love for the top flipper to stay clear of the ball in this instance so it runs down the bottom flipper smoothly.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/vC2dtoDLTX9dAE8d6

Not sure what might be the best approach...perhaps sliding the little ball guide towards the middle might give it enough clearance? Let me know if you've experienced or solved this issue in the past. Thanks!

#6794 76 days ago
Quoted from rockwell:

Not sure what might be the best approach...

That's the way the Big Games are; and my position would be to change would be a modification to make the machine easier = wrong

#6795 76 days ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

That's the way the Big Games are; and my position would be to change would be a modification to make the machine easier = wrong

Good to know. I definitely want to keep it set to as close to "original" as I can, so I will leave it as-is. I haven't played Big Game much, and it isn't my machine, so just wanted to make sure it's playing as it should.

#6796 76 days ago
Quoted from rockwell:

Good to know. I definitely want to keep it set to as close to "original" as I can, so I will leave it as-is. I haven't played Big Game much, and it isn't my machine, so just wanted to make sure it's playing as it should.

It is playing as it should. And you can make some great flipper passes with Big Game.

#6797 75 days ago
Quoted from rockwell:

Quick question for any Big Game owners or knowledgable parties...is there any way to smooth out what is happening on my machine when a ball is trapped up on the lower flippers? I will link a video below of what I mean...but the top flipper smashes into the ball immediately, causing it to bounce and act wild coming down the flipper. I'd love for the top flipper to stay clear of the ball in this instance so it runs down the bottom flipper smoothly.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/vC2dtoDLTX9dAE8d6
Not sure what might be the best approach...perhaps sliding the little ball guide towards the middle might give it enough clearance? Let me know if you've experienced or solved this issue in the past. Thanks!

You can learn to overcome this design issue. From a trap make a micro flip so the ball rolls backwards and then partially out onto the flipper. Now drop the flippers to make your shot and the upper flipper won't contact the ball and screw up your shot.

#6798 74 days ago

My Big Game has "Quarters" in the coin door.

My Catacomb has just "Quarter". When did this change happen?

IMG_0037 (resized).JPG

IMG_0035 (resized).JPG

IMG_0036 (resized).JPG

#6799 74 days ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

My Big Game has "Quarters" in the coin door.
My Catacomb has just "Quarter". When did this change happen?
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
[quoted image]

There are an amazing array of coin slot label varieties. I was on a mission a while back to find the narrow font QUARTER labels, as the repros all seem to be a wider font.. but then, looking at PBR, they have some NOS that are both wide and narrow font.

In this promo photo, they have 'QUARTERS' in each slot for catacomb:
https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=469&picno=58171&zoom=1

I'd imagine they'd all be in the goody bag?

#6800 74 days ago
Quoted from koji:

There are an amazing array of coin slot label varieties. I was on a mission a while back to find the narrow font QUARTER labels, as the repros all seem to be a wider font.. but then, looking at PBR, they have some NOS that are both wide and narrow font.
In this promo photo, they have 'QUARTERS' in each slot for catacomb:
https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=469&picno=58171&zoom=1
I'd imagine they'd all be in the goody bag?

Sounds like more of Stern not being shy about substituting just using what was available.

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