Got one of these? If so, stick it in your service port. Sounds like a grounding or polarity problem to me.

tester (resized).jpg

Looks great. Did you re-pin all the connectors?

did you solder the new Light board LED cable onto the backbox wire as needed to run LEDs? i had to ask...

I had a similar problem with those switches when I used them on the new PinBot translucent ramp. Apparently they are VERY fussy, but if you her a good one they should be highly reliable. It’s a new concept and they are still working out the bugs, but as you have no doubt discovered, the guys running that show are very nice and want to make sure it’s all working well for their users. I much prefer the small profile of those switches under the high visibility plastic on PinBot, but have also had problems with the magnet physically not sticking to the ramp! Great concept, bugs still being worked out; we are all helping prove out the concept, I guess.

I can totally see how you’d have been around the bend trying to figure out what was going on with that lone drop target. Those sort of mystery gremlins are the WORST, they take up so much time! But I am really pleased that the solution I hit on worked for you (and that my description was clear enough to be followed.) I suspect that adjustment should be made on all drop banks from this era to eliminate the bad resets. I have the same problem on Galaxy, and am currently restoring 2 Lightning machines, so I’ll be checking that adjustment before reinstalling their drops. It’s really nice to have a definite sense of how to approach these troublesome banks going forward!

I checked and it says open ground.

Check with a meter to see if the Ground pin on the AC plug is broken and has no connection to the game’s green ground wire (or any metal part of the game).

I checked it with a meter and it is connected to both the green wire connection by the filter and the metal strap in the cabinet.

Working backward...Does the Ground at the wall outlet test ok?

Yes checked it and it shows correct.

I have been following your drop target saga. I had nothing to add so I stayed quiet.

Much applause for solving the problem-----and posting the solution.

I am glad my suggestion(s) helped you with your bricking issue. However, I feel I need to correct something you said so it might not cause problems for the next guy.

I am happy that moving the drop assembly forward and away from the rebound rubber solved your bricking issue. However, I did not say to move the drop assembly forward to achieve the no-bricking goal. In my case, the drop assembly was already correctly positioned to keep the targets from dropping prematurely. Moving the drop assembly forwards was not an option for me; The only thing I could do to correct the bricking problem was to move the rebound rubber posts back by one hole diameter.

It is nice knowing that moving the drop assembly forward will also achieve the no-bricking goal, but from what I can see with my pins is that moving the drop assembly forward is not an option.

So, if one has room to move the drop assembly forward, that would be an easier way to solve the bricking issue. But if you don't have the room, you will need to move the rebound posts backwards.

Seems like the only thing left is the service outlet ground connection to the machine ground. Does transformer connector J2 pin 10 have continuity to ground?

Thanx for the clarification, @cottonm4, regarding the moving of the posts vs. the entire bank assembly - you're absolutely right. I should've been more clear in my solution as well but I was just too damn excited that I got it working.

In one of the overhead videos I took, I noticed that the back of the target would indeed occasionally make contact with the thicker-than-OEM-rubber on hard hits and likely contribute to the bricking. I could have moved the post(s) back slightly like your example, but I had another issue - I had removed and reinstalled the drop target bank so many times, that 3 of the 4 mounting holes were getting rather bore out and I was no longer able to tighten them as securely as I'd like. So I was going to have to fill in the holes and re-drill new ones anyway, so why not move the target bank forward slightly and leave the posts alone. In my case, this drop target bank has memory coils and there's a little bar across the top the assembly that barely touches the face of the targets, and that bar prevents the drop target faces from coming into contact with the playfield cutout. I had a little room to move forward, and it worked. Thanks again for the assist and getting me to think about the rubber-bounce-back as a contributing factor to bricking!

Well, that should be fairly easy to run down. Step one is to figure that out. Step two is to make sure your cabinet grounding braid is connected to your head grounding braid. After everything is on the same ground and recognized your pulsing lights should go away.

Any advice on how to fix a spinner that always ends like this?

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The switch adjustment should provide some slight pull on the stroke so it settles vertically... but I've not seen one that bad, so I presume something is out of alignment, or some gunk on the mech somewhere.

[Edit]. Actually, assuming nothing is gunked, yeah, I presume the switch must be pushing it up slightly, as the weight of the spinner should settle more vertically.

It could also be the horizontal spinner wire itself not being straight, creating an imbalance. I spent HOURS getting my right F2K spinner to sit correctly. Good luck!

Is the arm pointing the correct way?

Disconnect the spinner from the actuator rod. See how it operates. Tweak the axles ( those spinner wires are axles) so it spins evenly. Reconnect to the switch blade and set the blade so so it is neutral and not pushing or pulling on the rod.

Sidebar: I have a spinner in my Seawitch that I never could get balanced and had had to adjust the blade so it just gives a little bit of pull.

Looks like it could be binding up on the right side against the spinner bracket.

Screenshot_20220201-172807.png

The spinner bracket can be spread out a bit to stop the binding--one of the mounting holes on the bracket is usually elongated to provide some amount of adjustment. Unscrewing the 2 nuts that mount the spinner bracket to the posts should hopefully reveal an adjustment on the bracket. Here's the spinner on my Seawitch, you can see where the adjustment can be made by loosening the screw and moving that leg of the spinner bracket to or fro, then re-tightening:

PXL_20220201_223309769.jpg

Looking for some help on my Flight 2K. Having issues with my rectifier board. Started a topic here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stern-electronics-bridge-rectifier-board-help#post-6753476

Really stumped on what to do next!
Thanks all!

Thanks for all the helpful replies! My buddy suggested setting the spinner into its desired position and pushing down, this fixed it!

Anyone have the correct switch map for Wild Fyre? The one on IPDB seems to be for a different game entirely… wondering specifically where switch 19 is

B0A8A195-69FA-4454-9DC5-4A942D06FC0E (resized).png

It's standup rubber switches (which WF might not have). Wild Fyre uses the same roms as Dracula, the roms are written in such a way that there are some switches on one that are not on the other.

They are rebound rubbers, so the same as in the Lectronamo picture you posted. In various places around the playfield usually. Verified in my disassembly of the code.

Check the five green spots in this picture - where there's switches in these positions they're likely to all be switch 19.

Wild Fyre (Stern 1978)_Sw19.jpg

Awesome thanks so much!

My OP friend is in the process of selling some of his pins. One that he does not want to sell, but may have to sell anyway is a Memory Lane.

Here is what I can tell you. And what I can't.

The back glass, while presentable, does have some flaking.

The cabinet is above average.

The play field is in very nice condition.

The pin plays well. Is a tough bitch to play ( You gotta be good to score big ). It has a lot of the feel of a Bally Harlem Globetrotters.

It needs shopped. And those MPU-100 flipper assemblies need an upgrade to the MPU-200 style flippers.

If I had the room, I would like to have this MPU-100 pin. I don't have the room.

I have no idea what he will be asking for it. Or if he will even have to sell, but he is running into a space problem and has moved several pins in the last few weeks.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If anybody is interested in a possible chance at this pin, I can get you some decision making pics. Send me a PM.

I don't care if he sells it or not, but pinside says 22 people want a Memory Lane. This is the only reason I am putting this out there.

Cross posting here for help.

Normally I try and troubleshoot stuff on my own before asking for help but this one is dangerous so I’m asking up front.

The GI fuse in my Stars is getting hot enough to burn, and the wires are melting around some of the GI underneath.
I got it in a trade yesterday, then fixed a bunch of flakey sockets underneath. I played a dozen games with no issues. After getting it working (by replacing a bunch of bad sockets) I moved it 30 feet, and played a game, no issues. I noticed that one of the inserts was out again, opened the playfield and fixed it, then closed and played another game Half way through the game, ½ of the GI went out, and what was left was really dim. Changing the working lighting over to LEDs did nothing (but the LEDs came on). I turned it off and checked the fuse thinking it was partially burned, but it was HOT, like burning hot. I put in a new fuse and it too got hot and the symptoms didn’t change.

I peaked under the playfield and noticed that some of the GI wires were HOT… like the coating on it was getting shiny because they were melting.
I don’t really know where I should be starting on this one.

How would I troubleshoot this without turning the power on?

I won’t turn it on for more than about a minute for testing, but did notice that the pop bumper has stopped working, although everything else appears to function correctly except the GI.

The only other things I’ve messed with are the displays (ordered 2 new Xpins after giving up) and did some touchup paint but I know that didn’t cause the issue.

I’m going to troubleshoot again in the morning and any tips would be greatly appreciated.

Below is a bad walkthrough video if it helps and some pictures.

Any and all help greatly appreciated.

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That fuse shouldn't be that hot. It should blow. I would expect it to be over fused. Then I would set up your DMM to.measure ac voltage on this line and turn the machine on and see if maybe your getting coil voltage on this line. If normal you may have a shorted socket.

It is hard to see in your pics, but look at your sling shot GI wiring. GI has one red wire (pin #1 on the J1 connector and one white wire (pin #8 on J1 connector ).

It looks like I am seeing something other than red and white on your sling GI.

If there is a shorted socket, can all of the GI bulbs be pulled and reinstalled one at time until the problem shows up?

Lead theory is shotred socket. Thank you! Will investigate in morning! Some sockets were flakey and replaced with used spares yesterday.

Probably not as the socket is likely shorted with the bulb in or not. You can pull all the gi (disconnect the back box if possible) and measure resistance across the tabs of each socket. If you have any there's a short (should be open). The closer you get to the short the less resistance (although your meter may not be sensetive enough). If the meter can't to do a visual inspection is needed. Look for sockets where the barrel spins or is loose. Make sure the spring isn't touching the barrel. Any questionable sockets you can disconnect and then test continuity across the tabs

Hi Ya'll,

Working on a playfield swap on a flight 2000, and noticed that the old playfield had a strange ball eject assembly put in which doesn't work with the new playfield I have. They had even routed out the playfield to make it fit. The more i looked into it, it seemed that the old playfield had a ball eject assembly put in that was very commonly used in other 1980 stern era pins.

The one F2k is meant to have, is the same one that goes into Nine ball (maybe there are others, but I had trouble finding more). My question is, does anyone know what a suitable replacement would be for the entire assembly (including the plastic switch/hole cover).

Would something like this work?:
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/B-9361-R-1

Any suggestions? I'd really rather not route this brand new playfield.

Maybe put up a WTB ad for the parts you need

Edit- these are the under playfield trough/eject parts from my Flight 2000

image0 (resized).jpeg

Thanks all!

Still not working yet, couldn't fix it this morning but will try again overnight.

In my troubleshooting I have found that if I remove the F5 (GI) fuse I can play the game without issue with the exception that the pop bumper does not work. This had worked previously and is leading me to believe that it may be somehow related to my issue. Any thoughts on how I would test that?

Additionally, my troubleshooting has been limited to under the playfield and the board on the far right holding all of the fuses. I am going to be looking at the manual more today but this is my earliest Solid State and the schematics are pretty primitive (Bally/Williams did it better!). Does the GI run through any of the other boards in the backbox?

When I first inspected the machine at the sellers location, the chimes were not working. Part of our deal was that the chimes would work when we did our trade. They work great now, but I believe that the molex rework that you see on that board was done a few days ago. I don't think it would be related, but am thinking out loud here.

What it boils down to is the issue is most likely a short socket under the playfield or something goofy on that board on the right side of the machine...

Will watch some more youtube videos on multimeter usage and give that a shot. Thanks for the suggestion.

One of the bulbs was out in the slings when I got it. Will look into that area a bit more. The guy I got it from said he was color blind so this may be part of the issue.

I tried removing a couple of sockets by cutting the wire and the turning on to test and then resoldering, but that will take 10 minutes per bulb at the rate I'm going.

Will look into this.

IPDB notes there were two versions of ball eject assembly (1 above and 1 below the playfield) used on F2K. https://www.ipdb.org/search.pl?any=flight+2000&search=Search+Database&searchtype=quick#887

No. Transformer windings for the GI go into the rectifier board (that's the board on the right side adjacent to the transformer), split via traces on that board into the 3 connectors, one for the insert board, one for the cabinet, and one for the playfield.

Yup, forgot there are two versions. The parts pic I posted are from the under playfield set up,

Try 3 things.

1) put the fuse back in and remove the J1 connector. Just for grins. See what happens with the pop bumper. Does The pop work with GI disconnected?

2) disconnect the pop bumper and see what happens.

3) Since the chimes were not working and now they are, disconnect the chimes and see what happens. Work was done and it could have done incorrectly; I have done this to myself.

Stern manuals are sloppy. Bally manuals are much cleaner. The manual is not really going to help you except for the rectifier board wiring. I looked at the J-1 and J-2 connector and best I can tell from your pic is that the wiring looks correct on J1 and J2. There is nothing else in the manual that will help you. You are on your own with seeing, touching, and using the DMM.

(from the Stars manual on IPDB.org.

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All of your GI is powered from that red wire on pin #1. Since you tell us your seller, who did the work, was colorblind then look at every GI socket and assure there is only a red wire attached to the bare wire or base of the socket.

The white return wire is daisy chained to each socket. You can desolder the white wire at each socket and as long as you leave the two white wires daisy chained, current will still flow to all the rest of the sockets.

Chedder is right. That fuse should blow. Check for over fuse.

I think you should be able to disconnect J3 connector from the board and take the backbox out of the equation. but you may just have to pull the red GI wire from pin #11. Actually, pulling pin #1 and pin # 11 from J3 should take the Back box GI out of the equation.

I think this Gottlieb kicker assembly is the same as the one you have in your F2K.

https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/A-8695

image (resized).jpeg

Thought I would post some progress pics…I am currently restoring not one but two Lightning machines, one a full blown soup-to-nuts restoration, the other (mine) just the playfield stuff (no cabinet work…yet…)
[edit: wow, I can’t figure out Pinside’s weirdness on photo order. I just tried twice and can’t get the photos in the correct sequence. Moving on…]

It’s been a pretty tough playfield restoration; my own copy of the game had been particularly badly neglected, and it’s time consuming to do touch ups that look good on a design that is this intricately detailed. I’ve been doing a little dance between using frisket masking and airbrush, designing and printing out water slide decals, and just doing hand work with a black Molotow paint pen. The final clear coat will be going on today, and I am relieved to be stepping off of this process. It’s been satisfying work, though.

Here are a couple of “before” pics:C0FC9ED5-B7DF-4A72-827A-4D4CA811B26D (resized).pngF4E7DFC8-4308-47FD-80CA-40C2CCE00FFD (resized).jpeg

The horseshoe shot was a 2-part repair; feather the airbrushing into the art, clear coat, then apply water slide decal to reestablish the black art:

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The insert key lines and lettering was a major task….I go into it in detail on the Vids Guide to playfield restoration thread, but here are some pics of the process - 3 layers of both white and clear water slides:

62806773-EEF7-4EA9-8D47-EFF3735AD934 (resized).jpeg7DF48898-CD3F-4372-8350-6D0A6E2B359E (resized).jpegB6DD2F6B-E28D-44B9-8E7A-791079E297DC (resized).jpeg2A7F1D37-5DD8-4E70-AC1A-F8F2F8E1219E (resized).jpeg993D1ABE-0774-460D-ACFD-FFEB72B73B4E (resized).jpeg

The top of the upper playfield with Mr. God Guy got touched up in the same way as the horseshoe, though I neglected to get a photo after re-applying the green dots via water slide decal. Last night I spent a lot more hours that I thought I was going to, cutting out frisket mask so that the white background paint could be refreshed:

1F889F90-DA13-4599-B676-39545ED8B73D (resized).jpeg25C33490-99F4-4C77-A1EF-707BB6C13840 (resized).jpeg2C7B1913-1A3F-43BF-B6FA-702552E33E8B (resized).jpeg46EE9D95-689F-4F49-8BA6-0B04C65781CC (resized).jpeg

I’ll be sure to post follow up pics once the final clear is done, and as the games get reassembled

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Working on a Galaxy. Has what looks to be an earlier Alltek MPU replacement installed. Game plays well with no issues but freezes during burn-in mode almost immediately. Anyone experience this before?

Edit: spoke to Alltek seems to be a memory issue since this is an earlier board he’s repairing it for me!

Fixed it! Thank you all for the help!

After chasing it around for a while, I did step by step troubleshooting trying many of the ideas you had put forward. After removing the J1 connector and doing some tests I plugged it back in and it magically worked. The repinned connector is a different sized molex with extra slots (left to right), and I am guessing that in earlier troubleshooting I put it back on one pin off. I have no idea what caused the issue in the first place, but in the process of initial troubleshooting I either put it on the wrong way or did not firmly reseat it.

The F5 fuse now gets warm after play, but not burning hot. I am guessing that is normal due to the electrical draw of the incandescent bulbs. I am going to be replacing the GI with lower powered 1 SMD Warm White LEDs I ordered too draw less power and make that less of a concern. Hopefully it will maintain the original glow. I still have some flakey light sockets and ordered some new ones to fix that issue and replace the ancient ones I had hot swapped in.

Depending on how warm the F5 fuse gets after changing things out to LEDS I may use the replacement I got as a spare or throw it in there.

After this, the only thing I have left to do is throw in a couple of X-Pin displays for the player 3 and 4 and I will have a 100% STARS that is fast and fun!

Thanks for all of the ideas and helping me through it!

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Does your J-1 connector have have a keyway blocker plug installed in slot #4 ? You are playing with fire if someone did not install the blocking plugs.

Screen Shot 2022-02-08 at 9.26.48 AM (resized).png

Also, do your J1, J2, and J3 connectors for the rectifier board have the trifurcon connector pins installed?

This is the style the factory used. Just a bent piece of metal. They can fail.

Screen Shot 2022-02-08 at 9.13.49 AM (resized).png

This is what you should get to replace them. You do not need to rush out and make the swap but these are the ones you want to have on hand if//when you have to make a repair. These give gripping action for a better connection and more solid current carrying capacity. You want the 18-20 AWG size.

Screen Shot 2022-02-08 at 9.18.07 AM (resized).png

You will need to get a special crimper for what is called a "B" type insulation crimp. But that can be talked about later as there are several choices in crimpers.

What pitch is, "normal" for a STARS and/or this era of Stern pins in general? The STARS I have is pitched up further than any other pin I've played, to the point the ball barely makes it to the back of the playfield. What do you guys recommend?

Looking back at the molex plug an 8 pin connector was replaced by a 9 pin connector. The guy who did it but in nice trifurcon connectors and did a nice job but there are no key pins which led to my problems when troubleshooting. I think I have some spare keying plugs, but if not will glue in toothpicks and clearly label the plug with directions for me/the next guy.

I will have to look into the proper tools for fixing molex plugs. I haven't done it but there have been several occassions where it would have been helpful.

I don't know. Set it up for 5.5 percent and raise it or lower it by .5 percent until you find the level that lets it play how you like it playing. Pin party company will just have to adjust to what YOU like . 6 percent slope settings seem to get a lot of talk.

If you don't have a digital bullet level, you might consider putting one on your shopping list.

You can cut that extra #9 slot away if it helps you.

Thanks to everyone for replying!

I was overwhelmed by the immediate support from everyone. Someone dm'd me and had the exact parts I need.

And thanks cottonm4 it looks like that could be a good backup if needed.

Ill post pics once I get the parts (of both before and after).

If the ball is barely making it the length of the playfield, your flippers are underpowered, unless your pitch is something truly crazy. My Stars is set up like every other machine I own - rear adjusters at maximum, front adjusters at minimum, for the most speed I can get. I would think the legs must be a significantly weird extra long size for the pitch to be an issue.

PAPA tournament pitch, if memory serves, was always 6.5 degrees. If you're anywhere in that neighborhood, you the flippers should be able to send the ball flying around pretty well. I will say, Stars has the least "punch" of any of my machines, so I do a lot more drop catch shooting than I would on my PinBot for example. I am told this is because the older transformers don't carry as much punch as the later ones.

Anyhow...I have never owned a pin that didn't benefit substantially from having new flippers.
I have found that Classic Stern flippers age poorly - often the threads where the coil stop connects to the base are stressed and they just strip out if you try to rebuild the flippers. So it's worth considering ponying up for all new assemblies - just remember that if you do that you also need to get new flipper bats, as the base plate style was improved and the original Stars flipper shafts are not long enough to be used.

If you don't find a keying pin. I am sure I have some spares assuming your connecotr housing is an official molex.

The only issue I have run into with all new assemblies (PinballLife) is that the base plate is significantly thicker than stock. This causes the bushings to be short, especially if you swapped in a new playfield where the clear coat might be a bit thicker, and can cause some flipper drag if you don't get the additional nylon spacers. Totally manageable, but something to watch out for.