(Topic ID: 225496)

Stern Electronics Club (1977-1984).

By Mitch

3 years ago


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  • Latest reply 15 hours ago by greatwichjohn
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#5751 62 days ago
Quoted from SR230CC:

Sound board was recapped. New ribbon cable. I’ll try reset again.

MPU can change sounds.
http://www.pinball4you.ch/okaegi/rep_soundsb300.html

#5752 62 days ago
Quoted from SR230CC:

MPU can change sounds.

I see.. While the timer chip has its own dedicated onboard clock, it can be overridden by the CPU clock.

#5753 62 days ago

Hey, would there be interest in stern 3-bank and 4-bank drop target assemblies if I could have them reproduced?

#5754 62 days ago
Quoted from Tsskinne:

Hey, would there be interest in stern 3-bank and 4-bank drop target assemblies if I could have them reproduced?

Probably best to create a separate thread with a poll to more accurately gauge interest.

#5755 62 days ago

I stumbled upon a 4-bank drop target bank with switches on the back, if anyone is still looking for one.

#5756 62 days ago

Affordable new target banks would be a great help towards new builds. Along with other needed parts. Just to remind the few people that continue to complain about what was wrong from the colors. From Day 1 to now I always have said I am not a art guy or have the fine eye for colors. All my projects the art was done & that is what I used. The new group are far superior in that department. Soon, likely this month you will see pictures & explanations of what has been done towards Seawitch & Star Gazer playfields. A lot of time & money spent to improve on what I have done.

#5757 62 days ago
Quoted from SR230CC:

Sound board was recapped. New ribbon cable. I’ll try reset again.

Do you have the ribbon cables plugged in correctly?

#5758 62 days ago
Quoted from Tsskinne:

Hey, would there be interest in stern 3-bank and 4-bank drop target assemblies if I could have them reproduced?

I'm sure there would be. How much money would they cost?

#5759 62 days ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

Do you have the ribbon cables plugged in correctly?

yes

#5760 62 days ago
Quoted from Quench:

I see.. While the timer chip has its own dedicated onboard clock, it can be overridden by the CPU clock.

Clock phase 2 into the E "clock" on the 6840
I've had the same game set up side-by-side Alltek vs original and could hear a difference!

#5761 62 days ago
Quoted from Tsskinne:

Hey, would there be interest in stern 3-bank and 4-bank drop target assemblies if I could have them reproduced?

You should also ask if people might want a redesigned drop target bank. Those older Bally/Stern banks are overkill. It might be better to design one that's more like a late 80s Williams bank (but obviously keep the Stern mounting holes).

I don't know how that would fly with collectors, but people doing builds may not care since it isn't original anyway ... plus it wouldn't impact gameplay at all.

Just a suggestion .

#5762 62 days ago
Quoted from megadeth2600:

You should also ask if people might want a redesigned drop target bank. Those older Bally/Stern banks are overkill. It might be better to design one that's more like a late 80s Williams bank (but obviously keep the Stern mounting holes).
I don't know how that would fly with collectors, but people doing builds may not care since it isn't original anyway ... plus it wouldn't impact gameplay at all.
Just a suggestion
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.

I dunno I always liked the stern banks personally the way they drop so fast and smooth. But I’ll ask around.

#5763 62 days ago
Quoted from Tsskinne:

I dunno I always liked the stern banks personally the way they drop so fast and smooth. But I’ll ask around.

I don't know if it's blasphemous or not, but since the repro targets are lacking maybe a bank that supports other style of drops while still fitting classic stern games would be worthwhile.

#5764 62 days ago
Quoted from megadeth2600:

You should also ask if people might want a redesigned drop target bank. Those older Bally/Stern banks are overkill. It might be better to design one that's more like a late 80s Williams bank (but obviously keep the Stern mounting holes).
I don't know how that would fly with collectors, but people doing builds may not care since it isn't original anyway ... plus it wouldn't impact gameplay at all.
Just a suggestion .

Might as well use Gottlieb 4-bank drop target banks then. They are tried and true, and the drop targets always drop. I have them install in Nugent, Mata Hari, and Flash. Never have to lift the hood to pfutz with them, nor is there any kind of bricking!
pasted_image (resized).png

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#5765 62 days ago

Gottlieb's have the genius little knockdown coil mech as well for those banks that need them. I'm sure swinks could design a drop target that was gottlieb below and stern electronics up top so it would look more stern.

#5766 62 days ago
Quoted from SR230CC:

I don’t have a Weebly board yet. The jumpers are correct on my Alltek. I remember reading that there was a slight difference in clock speed between the two and the sound can be a little off.

The cpu clock speed can make a minor difference in the way a stern SB300 sounds. I am running the nvram.weebly.com mpu at 0.895mhz which is almost exactly what the original stern MPU200 used. So that replacement vs original should not sound any different because of CPU clock. It looks like Alltek might be using 1mhz for stern mpu200 mode but I don't think you will notice much difference unless you are comparing side by side.

Curveball. I remember testing some soviet clone of the 6800, (CM601 maybe?), and it caused the SB300 sound different too. Not much, but swapping between a real MC6800 and the soviet one I could here a difference.

#5767 61 days ago
Quoted from megadeth2600:

You should also ask if people might want a redesigned drop target bank. Those older Bally/Stern banks are overkill. It might be better to design one that's more like a late 80s Williams bank (but obviously keep the Stern mounting holes).
I don't know how that would fly with collectors, but people doing builds may not care since it isn't original anyway ... plus it wouldn't impact gameplay at all.
Just a suggestion .

Quoted from Tsskinne:

I dunno I always liked the stern banks personally the way they drop so fast and smooth. But I’ll ask around.

https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/500-7029-04

This is Stern's style used in Beatles. This one is out of stock and costs a King's ransom at $270.00 each. I like that is has to be a lot less weight than the old units.

Unknown (resized).jpeg

Quoted from Gott_Lieb:

Might as well use Gottlieb 4-bank drop target banks then. They are tried and true, and the drop targets always drop. I have them install in Nugent, Mata Hari, and Flash. Never have to lift the hood to pfutz with them, nor is there any kind of bricking!
[quoted image][quoted image]

Interesting. How plentiful are these in the used market?

#5768 61 days ago

Interesting. How plentiful are these in the used market?

Not certain, but probably more plentiful than classic Stern, mainly due to production numbers, I would think. Our inventory on 4-bank Gottliebs is ridiculous. We probably have about 15 of them.

#5769 57 days ago

Last call for Seawitch S ball defectors. I have used up all my raw materials and have 4 unsold (one light blue and three blue). They also come with 3 nylon nuts. Hit me up in a PM if you want one. $35 with free shipping in the US.

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#5770 57 days ago

In search of a couple of reasonably priced Meteor keyfobs...somebody's gotta have an extra couple of them around...each new set of plastics comes with fourkeyfobs.
If I can't find them...I'm looking for a Meteor project with a blown out playfield....so I have a reason to order a set of plastics...

Bueller? Bueller? Anyone?

A couple of generic "Stern Pinball" fobs would do too...

#5771 56 days ago

The P1 score display in my Stars went out and my ball indicator is flickering... what's the best way to replace/repair at the moment? Checked a few places but haven't found anything yet, so asking the experts now... located in USA

#5772 56 days ago
Quoted from JLay:

The P1 score display in my Stars went out and my ball indicator is flickering... what's the best way to replace/repair at the moment? Checked a few places but haven't found anything yet, so asking the experts now... located in USA

Turn off the machine, remove the display cables and reseat them. See if that fixes the problem.

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#5773 54 days ago

This gets asked about a lot... A new SB-100 replacement. Coming soon, for real this time. Mostly finished this project a couple years ago but abandoned it back then for a lack of time.

Peek at the prototype. It is pretty much working fine . I need to fix up some minor stuff in a new board revision.

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#5774 54 days ago
Quoted from barakandl:

This gets asked about a lot... A new SB-100 replacement. Coming soon, for real this time. Mostly finished this project a couple years ago but abandoned it back then for a lack of time.
Peek at the prototype. It is pretty much working fine . I need to fix up some minor stuff in a new board revision.

[quoted image]

That is fantastic! Need one for my Trident.

It would also be cool if it could get sold paired with a new cable from the MPU too

#5775 53 days ago
Quoted from barakandl:

This gets asked about a lot... A new SB-100 replacement. Coming soon, for real this time. Mostly finished this project a couple years ago but abandoned it back then for a lack of time.
Peek at the prototype. It is pretty much working fine . I need to fix up some minor stuff in a new board revision.

[quoted image]

This looks great!! I really like the surface mount chips along with the extra mounting holes for 'regular-size' replacement chips if they should need to be replaced down the road. Excellent work!

#5776 53 days ago
Quoted from barakandl:

This gets asked about a lot... A new SB-100 replacement. Coming soon, for real this time. Mostly finished this project a couple years ago but abandoned it back then for a lack of time.
Peek at the prototype. It is pretty much working fine . I need to fix up some minor stuff in a new board revision.

[quoted image]

Does it make the sounds for the mpu-100 games not terrible?

#5777 53 days ago
Quoted from Tsskinne:

Does it make the sounds for the mpu-100 games not terrible?

Hah. No, it is pretty "faithful" to the original design(of most SB100s with no chime simulation), but I think we could use the top part of the SB100 for a triggered MP3 playback device.

The SB-100 reads the MPU data when addressed and gives us eight outputs (only six used in sound mode). It would be pretty simple to wire those outputs into an off the shelf MP3 playback device. Might run into some issues like when it plays a tilt song using tones if the sounds are substituted. Also they layer some sounds, like the pop bumper gets "pew" and point tone at the same time.

This idea got kicked around when I first worked on the schematic a couple years ago.

#5778 53 days ago

SB-100 rev-1 & 2 sound painful. Rev-3, the sounds in barakandl's video, have always sounded good to me. This makes me feel a hell of a lot better after selling my extra rev-3 board last year!

So now the question is, will the games released with Rev-1 & 2 boards have the "correct" sounds (like Wild Fyre, Lectronamo, etc) or are all of them these more pleasant Rev-3 tones that came in games like Trident & Hot Hand?

Personally, rev-3 all the way! Death to the others!

#5779 53 days ago
Quoted from play_pinball:

SB-100 rev-1 & 2 sound painful. Rev-3, the sounds in barakandl's video, have always sounded good to me. This makes me feel a hell of a lot better after selling my extra rev-3 board last year!
So now the question is, will the games released with Rev-1 & 2 boards have the "correct" sounds (like Wild Fyre, Lectronamo, etc) or are all of them these more pleasant Rev-3 tones that game in games like Trident & Hot Hand?
Personally, rev-3 all the way! Death to the others!

I built this around the 5-21-79 dated schematic which I am pretty sure is the later version. I did leave out all the chime parts, which I think the majority the SB100 sound boards where shipped like that. So no chime simulation mode, only sound effect mode.

There are three trim pots to adjust the 10p, 100p, and 1000p tone. I forgot to put them in the prototype, but there is is going to be three test points. With a multimeter on frequency mode you can move the trim pot to get tone to sound like whatever you want. I will probably preset them to what you heard in the video above. Roughly 208Hz, 175hz, 139Hz. The other noises are not adjustable.

https://www.gieson.com/Library/projects/utilities/tonegen/
This tool should help pick frequencies. set it to saw tooth.

Quoted from frunch:

This looks great!! I really like the surface mount chips along with the extra mounting holes for 'regular-size' replacement chips if they should need to be replaced down the road. Excellent work!

Thanks! In this setup you can cut out a smt chip with flush cutters and install a dip version without heating up the desolder gun.

#5780 53 days ago
Quoted from play_pinball:

SB-100 rev-1 & 2 sound painful.

Part of the problem is people like to fiddle with the sound board pots which throws the tones horribly out of tune with another. It's rather difficult to find youtube SB100 based game videos where the tones are in proper tune. It's made worse with how slow these games score compared to Trident/Hot Hand/Magic and speeding up the scoring code helps them feel more responsive and less painful.

Quoted from play_pinball:

will the games released with Rev-1 & 2 boards have the "correct" sounds (like Wild Fyre, Lectronamo, etc) or are all of them these more pleasant Rev-3 tones that came in games like Trident & Hot Hand?

The rev A SB100 board used in Lectronamo and Wild Fyre had the tones pitched high so the chime simulation tones were about the same frequency as real mechanical chimes. Personally I like the chime simulation.

Note: Lectronamo, Nugent, Wild Fyre and Dracula need DIP switch 23 set to ON when using any sound boards (factory or repro) that don't have the chime simulation otherwise they'll produce no sounds. If using a rev C1 sound board or barakandl's repro, they will have the same bassier tones as delivered in Trident/Hot Hand/Magic.

#5781 52 days ago

I thought I read somewhere about adding washers behind the display mounts to mount them slightly back from the backglass to reduce rubbing? Has anyone done this? I’ve noticed that on my Flight 2000 there’s just a little bit of rubbing, and the slightest bit of paint scratched. I’d prefer to do something before it becomes an issue!

#5782 52 days ago
Quoted from Zzap:

I thought I read somewhere about adding washers behind the display mounts to mount them slightly back from the backglass to reduce rubbing? Has anyone done this?

yep old RGP advice. 2-3 should do the trick.

#5783 52 days ago
Quoted from slochar:

yep old RGP advice. 2-3 should do the trick.

Perfect, thanks!

#5784 52 days ago
Quoted from Tsskinne:

Hey, would there be interest in stern 3-bank and 4-bank drop target assemblies if I could have them reproduced?

Absolutely.
I mean, sure, we can scrounge around for old drop banks; I’m not above using Gottlieb if that’s what becomes available, but it sure would be nice to just be able to buy what you need to do a scratch build. I only became aware that people were doing them this past year, and am really intrigued by the possibilities. Now that there are so many parts becoming available, it would be fantastic to whittle down those “sticking points”; drop banks seem like a really good project to pursue. You’ll never make *everybody* happy with how you end up designing them, but hey, other folks can find an option more to their liking if they want. I would think enough people would be excited about a fresh new drop bank for their games that there would be a brisk business selling them! (I’d buy a pair of 3-banks RIGHT NOW if they were available )

#5785 52 days ago
Quoted from slochar:

yep old RGP advice. 2-3 should do the trick.

That worked well! I had more nylon washers spare than metal, so went with a couple of those, no more scratching!

71F5539C-B4FE-4DCE-9214-32DD1D377DDF (resized).jpeg
#5786 51 days ago
Quoted from barakandl:

The cpu clock speed can make a minor difference in the way a stern SB300 sounds. I am running the nvram.weebly.com mpu at 0.895mhz which is almost exactly what the original stern MPU200 used. So that replacement vs original should not sound any different because of CPU clock. It looks like Alltek might be using 1mhz for stern mpu200 mode but I don't think you will notice much difference unless you are comparing side by side.
Curveball. I remember testing some soviet clone of the 6800, (CM601 maybe?), and it caused the SB300 sound different too. Not much, but swapping between a real MC6800 and the soviet one I could here a difference.

Just got around to checking TP’s. TP2 is at around 15v. I think this is part of my problem. I need to replace a resistor for sure.

B1DC1AAE-CB40-4F40-99C3-02F988CD05D9 (resized).jpeg
#5787 51 days ago
Quoted from barakandl:

This gets asked about a lot... A new SB-100 replacement

YESSS Thank you! I have spent a lot of time trying to fix these with no luck. I'm cursed.

#5788 51 days ago
Quoted from SR230CC:

Just got around to checking TP’s. TP2 is at around 15v. I think this is part of my problem. I need to replace a resistor for sure.
[quoted image]

15v is normal. When the sol driver board is connected expect the 12v to measure around 15-18vdc.

That resistor does look like it is cracked, or maybe that is just the bands. Already a replaced once as it doesn't look original. From memory, 2.2ohm 2w. Just a low ohm series resistor on the 12v coming into the sb300.

#5789 50 days ago

I’m gradually collecting parts for my eventual NB scratch build. One thing I can’t turn up are the metal ball guides, but another Pinsider can make repros, provided he has good working photos to help him. Does anybody on here have partial teardown pics showing the ball guides still on the playfield?

#5790 50 days ago
Quoted from barakandl:

15v is normal. When the sol driver board is connected expect the 12v to measure around 15-18vdc.
That resistor does look like it is cracked, or maybe that is just the bands. Already a replaced once as it doesn't look original. From memory, 2.2ohm 2w. Just a low ohm series resistor on the 12v coming into the sb300.

Thanks for the feedback.

#5791 50 days ago
Quoted from sethbenjamin:

I’m gradually collecting parts for my eventual NB scratch build. One thing I can’t turn up are the metal ball guides, but another Pinsider can make repros, provided he has good working photos to help him. Does anybody on here have partial teardown pics showing the ball guides still on the playfield?

I don't have any pictures, but ball guides are pretty easy to make. I just made some for a Gottlieb I'm restoring. https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/if-florida-were-a-pinball-machine-aka-my-first-gottlieb/page/2#post-6512489

There is also a really good Vid guide on how to do it https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/making-new-ball-guides-from-scratch-vids-guide

Not sure how you would make them from a picture though. Seems like it would be hard to make them to the right size/scale.

#5792 50 days ago

I just traded an email with Kerry at Mantis. He has some parts ready to send to me for evaluation. I will be leaving town on Thursday and returning on Monday and have asked him to coordinate his shipping to match my arrival home.

Sometime next week I should have something to share with everybody.

#5793 49 days ago

I bought the wrong lock down bar by accident, thought i'd post it here to see if anyone was looking for a stern button style lockdown. Message me if your interested. Its in pretty good shape with some light scratches.

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#5794 48 days ago
Quoted from Zzap:

That worked well! I had more nylon washers spare than metal, so went with a couple of those, no more scratching!
[quoted image]

Thanks for bringing this up. You got me to looking around and thinking a little bit about my scratching problem.

I have a similar problem with the bagatelle brackets on my Catacomb. They have eaten thru the ink on my back glass. I taped them over to stop the damage. We are only talking .010 of clearance between the bracket and the back glass. I have a BG Resto glass on order and cannot risk the same thing happening with that.

IMG_7999 (resized).JPG

IMG_7997 (resized).JPG

I just figured out what I need to do.

The lamp board has two locating blocks on the latch side of the lamp board.

IMG_8011 (resized).JPG

I'll need to move these 2 blocks ( one shown) towards the rear about 1/16" and also reposition the lamp board hinge rearward the same 1/16" inch and my problem will go away.

IMG_8012 (resized).JPG

#5795 48 days ago

How much would you guys pay for a non playing, but complete project condition Trident? Just wondering how much I overpaid
IMG_20211020_171426492 (resized).jpgIMG_20211020_171432815 (resized).jpgIMG_20211020_173933098 (resized).jpg

#5796 48 days ago

no head? definitely not the most sought after game though it is fun.

#5797 48 days ago

It's a GREAT game and does not come up very often. I think the longest-standing pin in my collection, over 20 years, and I have no plans to ever let it go. Feel like it's starting to get more attention with the arduino code update but I haven't done that since I think the original code is spot on.

#5798 48 days ago
Quoted from hisokajp:

no head? definitely not the most sought after game though it is fun.

Got the head, just didn't post pics. It's a complete game.

#5799 48 days ago
Quoted from Pinash:

How much would you guys pay for a non playing, but complete project condition Trident? Just wondering how much I overpaid
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Not working I would say in the 800-1000 range these days. Hopefully just a rectifier or MPU gets you up and running.

#5800 48 days ago
Quoted from play_pinball:

It's a GREAT game and does not come up very often. I think the longest-standing pin in my collection, over 20 years, and I have no plans to ever let it go. Feel like it's starting to get more attention with the arduino code update but I haven't done that since I think the original code is spot on.

I've never seen one pop up for sale, so I had to jump on it. It's unfortunate the condition wasn't as good as described, but oh well. I am VERY excited for the Arduino mod, but I've got plenty of must do's before I get to that.

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