(Topic ID: 225496)

Stern Electronics Club (1977-1984).

By Mitch

3 years ago


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#5201 4 months ago
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:

So my Seawitch is playing great after the playfield swap. My only issue is one of my slings is machine gunning every once in awhile. I took a closer look and noticed a capacitor on the side machine gunning and no capacitor on the side working perfectly. Which configuration is correct. The sling switches seemed gapped correctly.
[quoted image][quoted image]

Get rid of the cap. It's not needed on slings or pops for that matter.

#5202 4 months ago
Quoted from Gott_Lieb:

Get rid of the cap. It's not needed on slings or pops for that matter.

That's my thought but it looks factory installed. I like to keep my classics as close to factory as I can. If it is original I would like it stay.

#5203 4 months ago
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:

That's my thought but it looks factory installed. I like to keep my classics as close to factory as I can. If it is original I would like it stay.

The switches in the schematic will show if a cap was there from the factory or not.

#5204 4 months ago
Quoted from Gott_Lieb:

The switches in the schematic will show if a cap was there from the factory or not.

The schematic shows no caps on the slings.

Good call

#5205 4 months ago

Ok - it's coming off. Here is a shot of the bottom of the playfield post swap.

20210613_134045 (resized).jpg
#5206 4 months ago
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:

Ok - it's coming off. Here is a shot of the bottom of the playfield post swap.[quoted image]

Why are there resistors on some feature lights and not on others?

#5207 4 months ago

Hi. I may bring a nice Stern Ligthining to Pinfest. Playfield was clear coated for previous owners. Altek mpu fully working. A as lol led’s. And also many let in the red posts. Plastics originals but ok. Cabinet solid and whit some minor cosmetically dens.

#5208 4 months ago

Upgraded my Galaxy to 7-digit roms and LISY displays today. Certainly gonna be a hot day when I roll this game again haha.

E3EF9FD7-7B57-4250-8516-3E51F73CC9F2.jpeg
#5209 4 months ago
Quoted from rcbrown316:

Why are there resistors on some feature lights and not on others?

I'm running a Stern lamp driver board with the anti-flicker boards installed. Sadly some lights still flickered. The resistors put a stop to that.

#5210 4 months ago
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:

I'm running a Stern lamp driver board with the anti-flicker boards installed. Sadly some lights still flickered. The resistors put a stop to that.

If you haven't already, take a close look at the underside of your anti-flicker boards. I had a similar issue on a few Bally SS pins where some LEDs would continue to flicker but others were fine. The last three sets of these anti-flicker boards I've purchased (2 from one vendor, 1 from another) had at least 1 board out of the set where there was no solder on a pin. Good thing these companies have quality control....without quality control, the next thing you know we'd have quality all over the place.

I refreshed all of the connector pins with new solder (whether the solder was missing or not) and all my flicker issues went away.

IMG_7617 (resized).jpg
#5211 4 months ago
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:

I'm running a Stern lamp driver board with the anti-flicker boards installed. Sadly some lights still flickered. The resistors put a stop to that.

That's interesting. I have had this happen twice very recently. I can probably get the ohms off the board but off the top of your head do you remember?

#5212 4 months ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

If you haven't already, take a close look at the underside of your anti-flicker boards. I had a similar issue on a few Bally SS pins where some LEDs would continue to flicker but others were fine. The last three sets of these anti-flicker boards I've purchased (2 from one vendor, 1 from another) had at least 1 board out of the set where there was no solder on a pin. Good thing these companies have quality control....without quality control, the next thing you know we'd have quality all over the place.
I refreshed all of the connector pins with new solder (whether the solder was missing or not) and all my flicker issues went away.[quoted image]

That's even more interesting. I need to go back and look at the quicksilver I just did. All the sets I have ordered came from Hans. He freely admits when there's issues and does get them corrected based on feedback.

#5213 4 months ago
Quoted from play_pinball:

Upgraded my Galaxy to 7-digit roms and LISY displays today. Certainly gonna be a hot day when I roll this game again haha.
[quoted image]

Pretty cool. How much cost/labor is involved with this? I've seen these but i don't think they will work on galaxy or meteor:
https://xpinpinball.com/product-category/xpin-displays/bly_stern_7volution/

#5214 4 months ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

If you haven't already, take a close look at the underside of your anti-flicker boards. I had a similar issue on a few Bally SS pins where some LEDs would continue to flicker but others were fine. The last three sets of these anti-flicker boards I've purchased (2 from one vendor, 1 from another) had at least 1 board out of the set where there was no solder on a pin. Good thing these companies have quality control....without quality control, the next thing you know we'd have quality all over the place.
I refreshed all of the connector pins with new solder (whether the solder was missing or not) and all my flicker issues went away.[quoted image]

I'll have to keep an eye on that, didn't know some were sneaking out with that kind of problem. I haven't been completely happy with the last couple rolls of solder that came through.

#5215 4 months ago
Quoted from rcbrown316:

That's interesting. I have had this happen twice very recently. I can probably get the ohms off the board but off the top of your head do you remember?

I use 480 ohm.

#5216 4 months ago
Quoted from rcbrown316:

That's even more interesting. I need to go back and look at the quicksilver I just did. All the sets I have ordered came from Hans. He freely admits when there's issues and does get them corrected based on feedback.

With Stern MPU200 games the issues with LED adapters are far more prevalent than on MPU100 or Bally games, and they typically fall under two categories....

1: With a number of Stern owners, they report a very low voltage on the lamp power bus on the backbox lamp board, with voltage a bit under 3 volts instead of the normal approximately 5 volts. In cases like these, tapping into a playfield controlled lamp tends to fix it. I rarely get a chance to work on MPU200 games, and haven't encountered this in person yet to try and figure out what's causing that in the machines. (My game budget is consumed for quite a while now too, but I'll be on the hunt again later this year.)

2: Meteor has a HUGE problem with the rocket inserts, nearly universal on Meteor machines from what I can tell. I'm told it has to do with the drastically different software timing that Stern uses in the MPU200 games, and how it interacts with the zero cross voltage on the lamp drivers. Adding an additional resistor on the affected lamp sockets helps quite a lot in that regard.

There are a couple other machines/locations that have a similar trend, but not enough that I can remember off the top of my head. Production numbers were so small for MPU-200 in total that it's hard to catch what the trends are. But basically, everything has to be working perfectly for the adapters to be 100% effective on all locations, where a Bally or MPU-100 game will often get by with a marginal solder joint..... an MPU-200 game needs me to NOT give you guys bad solder joints. And even then..... your rocket inserts in Meteor will likely need an additional resistor on a couple lamps.

-Hans

#5217 4 months ago
Quoted from rcbrown316:

Pretty cool. How much cost/labor is involved with this? I've seen these but i don't think they will work on galaxy or meteor:
https://xpinpinball.com/product-category/xpin-displays/bly_stern_7volution/

The LISY displays are inexpensive but require a bit of footwork to buy all the parts.

The MPU in my Galaxy was already modified to be able to swap roms, so we burned the 7-digit “bootleg” roms from ipdb. Then I added a wire from J1 Pin 7 on the MPU to Pin 12 on all the displays (sans Credit/Ball in Play display).

It’s playing great and keeping accurate scoring in-game but for some reason isn’t storing high scores. Just shows “0” after any game”.

The instructions on upgrading the displays I found somewhat confusing as I think they’re specific to plasma upgrades but maybe which pin I added the display connections to is why I’m having those issues? Or possibly a corrupted rom burn? I’m hesitant to bug you again but… slochar?

#5218 4 months ago
Quoted from HHaase:

With Stern MPU200 games the issues with LED adapters are far more prevalent than on MPU100 or Bally games, and they typically fall under two categories....
1: With a number of Stern owners, they report a very low voltage on the lamp power bus on the backbox lamp board, with voltage a bit under 3 volts instead of the normal approximately 5 volts. In cases like these, tapping into a playfield controlled lamp tends to fix it. I rarely get a chance to work on MPU200 games, and haven't encountered this in person yet to try and figure out what's causing that in the machines. (My game budget is consumed for quite a while now too, but I'll be on the hunt again later this year.)
2: Meteor has a HUGE problem with the rocket inserts, nearly universal on Meteor machines from what I can tell. I'm told it has to do with the drastically different software timing that Stern uses in the MPU200 games, and how it interacts with the zero cross voltage on the lamp drivers. Adding an additional resistor on the affected lamp sockets helps quite a lot in that regard.
There are a couple other machines/locations that have a similar trend, but not enough that I can remember off the top of my head. Production numbers were so small for MPU-200 in total that it's hard to catch what the trends are. But basically, everything has to be working perfectly for the adapters to be 100% effective on all locations, where a Bally or MPU-100 game will often get by with a marginal solder joint..... an MPU-200 game needs me to NOT give you guys bad solder joints. And even then..... your rocket inserts in Meteor will likely need an additional resistor on a couple lamps.
-Hans

Thanks for the insightful response Hans. Yes it was indeed meteor that was the other game. There were only about 3 lamps I noticed it on and they were all rocket oriented. I'll check the connections and simply add resistors where needed. Thanks Mad Dog also. Here's some Galaxy eye candy. Just finished it up tonight. I actually did all the restoration work about 5 or 6 years ago but I wasnt as familiar with the mechanics of everything at the time so after I was done with the cosmetics i just got it to a working state and wheeled it into the game room I just rebuilt all the pops, flippers and futzed around with the poorly performing drop bank to get it to an acceptable level of "brickness" It plays WAY better. rather than mess with the 7 digits I will jsu tjack up the back and make it difficult to roll.

20210613_215818 (resized).jpg20210613_215759 (resized).jpg20210613_220314 (resized).jpg20210613_222830 (resized).jpg20210613_215201 (resized).jpg20210613_215415 (resized).jpg20210613_215429 (resized).jpg20210613_215633 (resized).jpg
#5220 4 months ago
Quoted from Clytor:

Looks fantastic!

I paid 150 bucks for it lol. Those days are long gone.

#5221 4 months ago
Quoted from NeilMcRae:

Anyone got a three drop target bank? Building a new QS
Neil.

I think I do

#5222 4 months ago
Quoted from play_pinball:

Upgraded my Galaxy to 7-digit roms and LISY displays today. Certainly gonna be a hot day when I roll this game again haha.
[quoted image]

Looks can be so deceiving. You did not upgrade from a 6-digit pin to a 7-digit pin. You upgraded from a 5-digit pin to a 6-digit pin. Big Game was the first pin to sport 7-digit displays and Stern made sure the pinball world knew it was 7-digits; during attract mode, Big Game advertises those 7-digits.

How they did it:

This is a back box for a Sonic Cherry Bell pin. It is a 6-digit pin. Or is it a 4-digit pin?

image-18 (resized).jpg

Actually, this is a 4-digit pin. But who wants to say they made one point? Making 100 points is more fun. How do you that? Just add a couple of dead zeros

Classic Sterns: That units digit is always a zero. It really counts for nothing except points inflation . So, when you are looking at your 50,000 point score just mentally remove that last digit and arrive at the true number of 5,000.

#5223 4 months ago
Quoted from rcbrown316:

I paid 150 bucks for it lol. Those days are long gone.

I’ll give you $151 !!! Zike. Lol. Really neat piece of history.

#5224 4 months ago

That’s purely semantics cottonm4. Previously the game would roll over and lose your high score when you hit over 999,990. Now my max is 9,999,990.

Only problem is it’s not saving high scores. The mpu has nvram installed and it is saving settings. Even without cycling power, it never displays a high score.

When I lowered the replay value to essentially rig “free play”, there was some odd behavior in the digits. The 10s and 100s digits were blank and everything was displaying 2 spaces over. I wasn’t sure if this was from my wiring (though it all scores correctly when playing), from the hacked rom, or even a slightly corrupted rom burn.

#5225 4 months ago
Quoted from play_pinball:

The MPU in my Galaxy was already modified to be able to swap roms, so we burned the 7-digit “bootleg” roms from ipdb. Then I added a wire from J1 Pin 7 on the MPU to Pin 12 on all the displays (sans Credit/Ball in Play display).

It’s playing great and keeping accurate scoring in-game but for some reason isn’t storing high scores. Just shows “0” after any game”.

The instructions on upgrading the displays I found somewhat confusing as I think they’re specific to plasma upgrades but maybe which pin I added the display connections to is why I’m having those issues?

The wire you add is only to the p1-p4 display connectors and it's just adding one signal to the displays. You would need it regardless of if you are using LED displays or plasmas. The stern 7 digit conversion roms from Oliver Kaegi (that's the source of the bootleg one on ipdb) do not require the same circuit as the bally ones for Mystic era - so an LED replacement would be a direct LED replacement for a 7 digit display, no setting jumpers for 6-to-7 digit conversions - that's not going to work correctly. If you are getting the correct scoring though that's probably ok.

Quoted from play_pinball:

When I lowered the replay value to essentially rig “free play”, there was some odd behavior in the digits. The 10s and 100s digits were blank and everything was displaying 2 spaces over. I wasn’t sure if this was from my wiring (though it all scores correctly when playing), from the hacked rom, or even a slightly corrupted rom burn.

Clear the nvram by going into audits and zeroing each entry. Likely you have a random entry in the HSTD so you can never 'beat' it because blank digits are all greater than 9 and you can't score greater than 9. It would be a very specific rom burn error to cause something like you're describing almost to the point of being extremely unlikely.

#5226 4 months ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

You did not upgrade from a 6-digit pin to a 7-digit pin.

Absolutely and completely disagree.

You do not go out and buy "5 digits" displays for any SS pin. You buy "6" digit displays. Or "7 digit" displays.

#5227 4 months ago
Quoted from JLay:

Got my Stars CPR PF swap done and getting things dialed in. Overall working well, just regretting using the knock off connectors for the mechs, they suck and I’ll be switching to molex.
I’m realizing now that it’s pretty shitty to have that exposed metal rail above the pop bumper, the ball gets smashed into that thing so much. A new ball is already looking pretty dinged up...[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Looks great!! Congrats!! Are they new drops or just decals?

#5228 4 months ago
Quoted from slochar:

The wire you add is only to the p1-p4 display connectors and it's just adding one signal to the displays. You would need it regardless of if you are using LED displays or plasmas. The stern 7 digit conversion roms from Oliver Kaegi (that's the source of the bootleg one on ipdb) do not require the same circuit as the bally ones for Mystic era - so an LED replacement would be a direct LED replacement for a 7 digit display, no setting jumpers for 6-to-7 digit conversions - that's not going to work correctly. If you are getting the correct scoring though that's probably ok.

So I did *not* need to add a wire to the those pins for an LED display upgrade? Oliver's instructions are what we referenced before doing the conversion but my assumption was the instructions were specific to plasma displays re: which pin to add the wire to (pin 11 vs 12). So are you saying if I upgrade Meteor using the 7-digit LED displays and 7-digit roms, I just drop them in as-is? Seems odd to me logically.

Quoted from slochar:

Clear the nvram by going into audits and zeroing each entry. Likely you have a random entry in the HSTD so you can never 'beat' it because blank digits are all greater than 9 and you can't score greater than 9. It would be a very specific rom burn error to cause something like you're describing almost to the point of being extremely unlikely.

We'll give this a shot. Thanks once again for advice.

#5229 4 months ago
Quoted from play_pinball:

That’s purely semantics cottonm4. Previously the game would roll over and lose your high score when you hit over 999,990. Now my max is 9,999,990.

Actually, your max was 99,999 and now it is 999,999. But you can talk up that zero if it makes you feel better

Quoted from Coyote:

Absolutely and completely disagree.
You do not go out and buy "5 digits" displays for any SS pin. You buy "6" digit displays. Or "7 digit" displays.

I did not say anything about going out and buying 5-digit displays. You buy a 6-digit display but the 6th digit is a zero that never changes. It is just a points inflator.

The only time Big Game displays anything other than a zero in the units section is during the attract mode. During attract mode you will see a "1" and a "7" displayed. But that is the only time.

IMG_6729 (resized).jpg
IMG_6730 (resized).jpg

During play, that units zero just stays as one big fat zero. It never changes. The lowest score you can get is 10 points. The zero just inflates the score.

IMG_6735 (resized).jpg

#5230 4 months ago

Its not that I don’t understand, but it doesn’t change that you’re purely arguing semantics. 0 by itself is a philosophically debatable concept, but like it or not, 10 is a real number. I’m aware of the divide-by-10 roms existing, but if the playfield says something scores 500 points, I want it to score 500 points. And they are used in test and audit functions, if you wanna get real dirty about it

#5231 4 months ago
Quoted from play_pinball:

So I did *not* need to add a wire to the those pins for an LED display upgrade? Oliver's instructions are what we referenced before doing the conversion but my assumption was the instructions were specific to plasma displays re: which pin to add the wire to (pin 11 vs 12). So are you saying if I upgrade Meteor using the 7-digit LED displays and 7-digit roms, I just drop them in as-is?

Which LED displays did you add? If it's the xpin 7olution thing, AFAIK you do not add the wire as the display itself that does the 6 to 7 digit conversion, not the game rom. Anytime you change the gamerom though for Meteor and Galaxy you have to add the wire (I forget if he did Ali.... probably would need to be added to my queue if not). If you use the gameroms for Bally as well you'd have to add either the wire or the small circuit.

The extra digit wire add is separate from the pins 11/12 change to make bally/stern 7 digit displays interchangeable so do not confuse those 2.

In summary.... add the wire from the mpu connector to the player 1-4 displays if you've changed the rom.

#5232 4 months ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

Actually, your max was 99,999 and now it is 999,999. But you can talk up that zero if it makes you feel better

Evidently the manufacturer disagrees with you:
https://www.ipdb.org/files/980/Stern_1980_Galaxy_Manual.pdf

#5233 4 months ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

Actually, your max was 99,999 and now it is 999,999. But you can talk up that zero if it makes you feel better

That was kind of the whole point doing that - higher scores do make you feel better. That's why they did the score inflation (culminating sometime in the 90s with ridiculously high scoring games like AFM, JM, etc. where a couple billion is a BAD score.)

Let's just call it an order of magnitude farther when you go from the 6 digits to the 7. The 7 digit upgrades don't shift the scores over making the 10s and 1s 0, it just counts the number of times you would have turned it over if you still had 6 digits to record the scores.

Ironically once doing the upgrade on Meteor and Galaxy I've only gotten >1m once on Galaxy and on Meteor a handful of times, and never on Mystic or Trizone.

#5234 4 months ago
Quoted from slochar:

That was kind of the whole point doing that - higher scores do make you feel better.

Yes, the old games that scored 5 points for a pop hit were OK when candy bars were a nickel. That was big points.

But when candy bars started costing a buck each, pinball had to keep up with the times and pops started scoring 1,000 points.

IMG_6737 (resized).JPG

Now, candy bars cost $2.00 plus and houses are fast approaching $1 million for a 2 bedroom shack, so, Stern added another digit for inflation adjustment

Screen Shot 2021-06-15 at 9.37.53 AM (resized).png
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quoted from slochar:

Ironically once doing the upgrade on Meteor and Galaxy I've only gotten >1m once on Galaxy and on Meteor a handful of times, and never on Mystic or Trizone.

Help my understanding here.

How does this work when you install a 7-digit display on your 6-digit Meteor? The Meteor outlanes score 3000 points. In what manner does the outlane score change when you add that 7th digit? Or is it that all of the scores on Meteor stay the same, except now the better players can score above 1 million because of better playing?

#5235 4 months ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

Or is it that all of the scores on Meteor stay the same, except now the better players can score above 1 million because of better playing?

yes, this. Mainly so that you can get your HSTD's recorded in a home situation, it's not an arcade where you were trying to nine out the hstd to get the 3 credits. Although that's still fun too.

You do realize that this is a rom upgrade as well, 7 digit displays in a 6 digit machine with unmodified software won't utilize the 7th digit.

Galaxy in stock form is ridiculously easy to roll over. Make it hard with the rubber facing the flippers on the bottom 2 lane guides, pull the outlane posts, and put a hair tilt on it.... not so much. I only did that to see if I could make it worth playing, and it turns out everyone likes the challenge.

I need to add the spinner counter to galaxy too, once I get around to it.

#5236 4 months ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

Or is it that all of the scores on Meteor stay the same, except now the better players can score above 1 million because of better playing?

This is the reason for switching from 6 digits to 7 digits.

#5237 4 months ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

zero that never changes

But it is still a digit.

#5238 4 months ago

The ones position being zero all the time is a problem for the 7-digit Nixie displays I made. I've had them in Centaur for the last three years. The last digit always being zero has caused the ones tube on three of the four displays to get dim and finally go out. I think this is "cathode poisoning". Lately I've remembered to run the game in digit test for a few hours every month, to light all the digits on all tubes and save the last remaining one. If they were socketed I could rotate them but they're soldered in.

#5239 4 months ago
Quoted from RoyGBev:

I've had them in Centaur for the last three years. The last digit always being zero has caused the ones tube on three of the four displays to get dim and finally go out.

Screensaver.

#5240 4 months ago
Quoted from RoyGBev:

The ones position being zero all the time is a problem for the 7-digit Nixie displays I made. I've had them in Centaur for the last three years. The last digit always being zero has caused the ones tube on three of the four displays to get dim and finally go out. I think this is "cathode poisoning". Lately I've remembered to run the game in digit test for a few hours every month, to light all the digits on all tubes and save the last remaining one. If they were socketed I could rotate them but they're soldered in.

Would a screen saver as Coyote indicates helps? Just every so often in attract mode it would count all the digits from 0-9? The game has that launch the balls things every 15 minutes or so if you have it set that way it could do it the same way, every 15 minutes, also cycle the displays a couple of times.

#5241 4 months ago
Quoted from Flynnyfalcon:

Looks great!! Congrats!! Are they new drops or just decals?

New drops from PBR

#5242 4 months ago

A friend asked if I could make him a Star Gazer lamp board. I could and I did. I also cut an extra board to sell.

Here is my pinside ad.

https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/116520

IMG_6774 (resized).JPG

#5243 4 months ago

Edit: Nevermind, I'm an idiot.

#5244 4 months ago
Quoted from Coyote:

Edit: Nevermind, I'm an idiot.

Ok. If you said so ... lol

#5245 4 months ago
Quoted from Santis:

Ok. If you said so ... lol

Was going to post and state how I was having a problem finding the proper pins for the millions digit on the Meteor schematices.

And then realized that .. Meteor wasn't originally set up that way. *facepalm*.

#5246 4 months ago
Quoted from Coyote:

Was going to post and state how I was having a problem finding the proper pins for the millions digit on t

lol
I won’t discuss whit you who you are. Lol. Just kidding

#5247 4 months ago

This is the lightning I’ll bring to Allentown If interested please pm me. Thanks.

051B1D53-12C3-40E6-880F-34031A8A883D (resized).jpeg11189839-5199-4B28-A4A8-E81A34C6ED55 (resized).jpeg12B826CD-4496-4BE0-9C91-D38B22B6F479 (resized).jpeg3119A59D-7528-44DB-9952-368743F89799 (resized).jpeg455CC8D0-758D-4834-B75B-CFD60C707123 (resized).jpeg5B7C9116-DA2D-4D74-8AF5-DA299ABF3E8C (resized).jpegA3EB5B8E-82CB-4DC4-B155-AEB67AB01DF4 (resized).jpegB775EE80-6D95-4F5D-90A9-35C12218A67B (resized).jpegB997E376-A97A-43C8-B2A7-08E3133A1CFB (resized).jpeg
#5248 4 months ago

Makes me wish I pushed harder to get that local lightning a couple years ago. Gorgeous looking!

#5249 4 months ago
Quoted from HHaase:

Makes me wish I pushed harder to get that local lightning a couple years ago. Gorgeous looking!

Thank you

#5250 4 months ago
Quoted from JLay:

New drops from PBR

How well do they… drop?

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