(Topic ID: 267711)

Press fit nut separated from leg bracket


By FatPanda

63 days ago



Topic Stats

  • 49 posts
  • 16 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 60 days ago by YeOldPinPlayer
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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    #1 63 days ago

    Any thoughts in removing these leg bolts? The press fit nut was over tightened and it broke the nut away from the bracket. Now the bolt just spins in place. And the best this is that the buyer is coming in a few hours to pick it up!

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    #2 63 days ago

    Can you reach it to grab it with pliers, vice grips perhaps, and then unscrew the bolt?

    #3 63 days ago

    Vice grips and then a few small spot welds to secure captured nut to basket once out.

    #4 63 days ago

    Maybe drive a wood screw or 2 in beside the nut to stop it from spinning?

    #5 63 days ago

    Cant grab it with a pliers unless I start putting holes in the cabinet, around the bolt, which I might.

    Dont have a welder to tack it in place, otherwise that would have been my first thought.

    #6 63 days ago

    Dremel that bad boy off ! Then offer to send new bolt and leg insert?

    #7 63 days ago

    After you Dremel it off, borrow a leg nut and bolt setup from another of your machines to finish the sale.
    Then get yourself a new bracket and bolts.

    #8 63 days ago

    How would you dremel it? It is countersunk atleast a 1/4 inch into the wood, you would have to cut the head off at the leg and then you might damage the leg.

    Try taping a flathead screwdriver in beside the nut, the pry on the side of the nut to stop it from spinning while turning the bolt out.

    #9 63 days ago

    Cut the head off the bolt if you have room.

    Or if you can get a chisel onthe press fitting you can then tap it loose with a hammer. Make a bigger notch in fitting with dremel to hold chisel if needed. Obvioously have someone hold the bolt on the other side while tapping

    Or drill it out

    #10 63 days ago
    Quoted from Mitch:

    How would you dremel it? It is countersunk atleast a 1/4 inch into the wood, you would have to cut the head off at the leg and then you might damage the leg.
    Try taping a flathead screwdriver in beside the nut, the pry on the side of the nut to stop it from spinning while turning the bolt out.

    Outside of cabinet you have plenty of real estate.

    #11 63 days ago
    Quoted from chad:

    Outside of cabinet you have plenty of real estate.

    Yes cut the head off the bolt . But the leg is still attached and tight might damage leg.

    #12 63 days ago

    Hammer it out from the inside? Also I thought those brackets were supposed to face the other way, not sit in the holes?

    #13 63 days ago

    I would use one of these twist sockets over the insert. they make shallow and deep sets. autozone or similar may have a cheap set.

    Screenshot_20200502-084939_Chrome (resized).jpg

    #14 63 days ago

    Lots of good ideas guys. I dont have any cutting bits for my dremel, and even if I did cut the head off, the leg nut is still countersunk into the corner.

    I cant get enough pitches with a pliers to grip tut hard enough to keep it from moving either.

    Right now I'm just trying to drill it out (around the nut) with as minimal damage to the cabinet as possible, but it isnt looking pretty.

    Worst part is that there are 3 of them.

    #15 63 days ago

    I dont have any problems buying the updated WPC style bracket and bolts once they are out.

    Thing is, these ate new leg brackets, era correct style too!

    #16 63 days ago
    Quoted from FatPanda:

    Lots of good ideas guys. I dont have any cutting bits for my dremel, and even if I did cut the head off, the leg nut is still countersunk into the corner.

    So the after the head is off and the leg is off the game put a punch into the hole from the outside and hammer it back into the cabinet.

    #17 63 days ago
    Quoted from FatPanda:

    I dont have any problems buying the updated WPC style bracket and bolts once they are out.
    Thing is, these ate new leg brackets, era correct style too!

    Again these bracket appear to have been installed backwards.

    #18 63 days ago

    I found some cutting discs that might work. I'm going to cut off the head of the bolt and hammer through to the inside.

    #19 63 days ago

    You can drill the bolt itself out if needed so you dint have to damage the cabinet

    Cutting the bolt head iff is going to be easier though

    #20 63 days ago

    I need a proper cutting wheel or an angle grinder. The cutting wheel that I have didn't do anything.

    I feel terrible too because the buyer traveled from 4 hours away and spent a night in town to pick up this morning

    #21 63 days ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    Again these bracket appear to have been installed backwards.

    I've seen them installed both ways and it appears the cabinet was countersunk for it but if they are press fit like that I'd definitely want them oriented inward so this can't happen.

    If you can get a slot cut into the nut on one side you could use a stout regular screwdriver to hold it steady while unbolting. Maybe even making a bit of a notch by pounding the screwdriver in there, or wedging it from the sides, or in a prying fashion to provide some friction on the nut.

    If you do resort to drilling maybe drill it from the head rather than the inside once you get enough of the head meat away it should pop off.

    #22 63 days ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    Again these bracket appear to have been installed backwards.

    That's how the original brackets were installed.

    #23 63 days ago
    Quoted from FatPanda:

    I need a proper cutting wheel or an angle grinder. The cutting wheel that I have didn't do anything.
    I feel terrible too because the buyer traveled from 4 hours away and spent a night in town to pick up this morning

    Sawsall? You will likely mar the leg some but...

    #24 63 days ago
    Quoted from FatPanda:

    That's how the original brackets were installed.

    Seems like a bad idea. This can’t happen if they are the other way. I’d flip them around if you’re going to replace them.

    #25 63 days ago

    I do not think vise grips would have enough hold , but if you could secure them inside the cabinet against side and take a 5/8 box wrench on the outside on head bolt and try to twist break tbe head off?

    #26 63 days ago

    As deep as that nut is sunk trying to get a good grip on it is going to be rough.

    I agree cutting the bolt head is way to go. Get yourself some reinforced dremel cutoff discs - the black ones, not the garbage red ones. You should be able to slip the disc between the edge of the bolt head and the corner of the leg. Use fast speed on the dremel, but slow and steady pressure. Should help keep leg marring to minimum.

    Once head is gone, hammer-punch the remains into the cabinet.

    The cutting wheel might also help cut a slot into the inner nut as others have suggested.

    #27 63 days ago

    Sounds like you don’t have a crazy amount of fabrication tools on hand, but I’d probably grind the head of the leg bolt as plat as possible then use a unibit to drill the head worm until the head is all but gone and the leg pops off. Then use a punch and drive the remaining stud into the cabinet and replace. No cabinet damage. No leg damage.

    Attempting to weld inside the cabinet won’t end well. That’s 30-40 year old wood that’s brittle and stressed. It won’t catch fire like some kind of inferno, but the heat from trying to get the press but reattached to the plate would do some noticeable damage.

    Just be calm. I’m sure your buyer understands how this stuff goes. If you drive 4 hours for a game, this ain’t your first rodeo. The buyer may have an idea or skill set.

    #28 62 days ago

    Looked at the pic again, looks like there might already be some nubs on the press fit? If you hold the flat blade screwdriver on the left side of the bolt it should stop it from turning with some pressure. Now, if something is cross threaded from too much tightening you might have to get more drastic.

    #29 62 days ago

    If you can break the angled piece of wood out of the corner with a chisel or screwdriver you should have plenty of room to hold the broken part and turn the bolt out. You’ll have to make a new wood piece when it goes back together.

    Cutting from the outside and hammering the remaining piece in would still be my preferred method.

    #30 62 days ago

    I ended up having to get an angle grinder, cutting off the head, taking off the bracket on the inside, and pounding the bolt shaft through. All in all the most stressful breakdown I've ever had. Needless to say, I owe the buyer a new set of leg brackets and a couple leg bolts.

    Thanks for jumping in with suggestions guys. This is why Pinside is awesome!

    #31 62 days ago
    Quoted from FatPanda:

    I ended up having to get an angle grinder, cutting off the head, taking off the bracket on the inside, and pounding the bolt shaft through. All in all the most stressful breakdown I've ever had. Needless to say, I owe the buyer a new set of lag brackets and a couple leg bolts.
    Thanks for jumping in with suggestions guys. This is why Pinside is awesome!

    Thanks for posting your resolution.

    And Chuckwurt is correct. That bracket was reversed. If it had been installed the other direction you would have had less problems.

    #32 62 days ago
    Quoted from cottonm4:

    That bracket was reversed.

    I don’t doubt the originals were installed wrong. When the bracket is on correctly you won’t have much bolt sticking out, if any. When they are on backwards you’ll have an inch or so protruding.

    fatpanda you had three of them that came apart? I’d be checking the rest of my games if that’s the case.

    #33 62 days ago
    Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

    I don’t doubt the originals were installed wrong. When the bracket is on correctly you won’t have much bolt sticking out, if any. When they are on backwards you’ll have an inch or so protruding.
    fatpanda you had three of them that came apart? I’d be checking the rest of my games if that’s the case.

    These were bought new from Pinball Life, and should be the only ones that are like that. Needless to say I cannot recommend them and will be using the wpc style brackets in the future.

    But yes, to reiterate, the originals were installed countersunk into the corner braces of the cabinet. I only installed them the way they came out. I vividly remember needing to get a screwdriver to tap them out after removing the holding screws.

    #34 62 days ago
    Quoted from FatPanda:

    These were bought new from Pinball Life, and should be the only ones that are like that. Needless to say I cannot recommend them and will be using the wpc style brackets in the future.

    All of my pins have the brackets installed with the threaded bushing facing the inside of the cab. This way, when the bolt gets tightened it pulls the bushing into the bracket and a solid mounting.

    If I understand you correctly, you had the bushing buried into the wood and when the bolt tightens it pulls the bushing out of the bracket. The bushings are press fitted in. And there is no thread in the bracket itself. Which almost turns the bolt into a bushing/gear puller.

    I do not think Pinball Life sent out defective brackets, if I am understanding you correctly. I have installed these brackets on several of my pins and have not had any problems.

    #35 62 days ago

    Those were not the original brackets.
    You will see that the WPC style bracket has those sleeves on inside of cabinet too.
    Those were added later, and installed backwards.

    #36 62 days ago
    Quoted from cottonm4:

    I do not think Pinball Life sent out defective brackets, if I am understanding you correctly. I have installed these brackets on several of my pins and have not had any problems.

    Great now I have to check mine for replaced ones since the original factory ones which appear to be punched and then have the threads cut (like 3 of them) are usually installed with the punch towards the cab..... and I probably will end up having the same issue the OP is when I go to take the legs off some games.....

    Learning something new even after 32 years in the hobby.....

    #37 62 days ago

    I dont know what else to say. Install them how you like, I suppose. Just saying that when I replaced them, the protruding part was in towards the corner braces on the original ones, unless the original ones were installed backwards too. I just put them in how I took them out.

    #38 62 days ago

    Yeah I’m pretty sure them inwards isn’t original. Someone changed that down the line I think. Flipping them around will ensure this issue never happens again. But either way will technically work.

    #39 62 days ago
    Quoted from FatPanda:

    I dont know what else to say. Install them how you like, I supposed. Just saying that when I replaced them, the protruding part was in towards the corner braces on the original ones, unless the original ones were installed backwards too. I just put them in how I took them out.

    I understand. I'm trying to poke a stick in your eye. I'm just telling you what most likely happened to cause the one you installed to come apart.

    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    Yeah I’m pretty sure them inwards isn’t original. Someone changed that down the line I think. Flipping them around will ensure this issue never happens again. But either way will technically work.

    With another one of my wild ass guesses, I am thinking some one had this pin apart, lost the leg bolts and got some replacements that were just a little too short. Reversing those brackets offered up a little more reach for a too short bolt. And made for a lousy connection. Just a guess.

    Quoted from slochar:

    Great now I have to check mine for replaced ones since the original factory ones which appear to be punched and then have the threads cut (like 3 of them) are usually installed with the punch towards the cab..... and I probably will end up having the same issue the OP is when I go to take the legs off some games.....
    Learning something new even after 32 years in the hobby.....

    I had some punched brackets on two of my pins. But they were facing inside and away from the cabinet. As for the correct position, a new hire on the line could have installed the punched units backwards and buried them in the cabinet corner brace. Just a guess.

    I have seen all kinds of strange things happen on a production line. Especially if the line is moving fast and the workers cannot keep up.

    Like why did only some the 1965 Chevy Corvettes wit fuel injection manifolds have the serial number stamped on the manifold twice when once was all that was required? I don't know if the Vette people ever figured it out, but my guess is a bored new hire decided two times was better.

    #40 62 days ago

    Sounds like a pin where the brackets were installed on a Friday at the factory.

    #41 62 days ago
    Quoted from ralphwiggum:

    Sounds like a pin where the brackets were installed on a Friday at the factory.

    I see you know about buying a car built on Wednesday, too

    #42 60 days ago

    stole this pic of another person's Pharaoh and another's BK. I'm not saying anything, but i'm just saying

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    #44 60 days ago
    Quoted from FatPanda:

    stole this pic of another person's Pharaoh and another's BK. I'm not saying anything, but i'm just saying
    [quoted image][quoted image]

    Thinking to your earlier points, there was no reason to have the cabinet holes countersunk (counterbored?) for the brackets, unless they were supposed to be installed as shown in your "stolen" pictures. Shoving the nut into a hole only big enough for the bolt shaft would be a mighty task.

    But as discussed and experienced, installing them the other way - with the nuts exposed to the air in the cabinet - is indisputably better. But if that were intended to be the case, there's no need for a wider hole in the wood to accept the nut.

    So is this a case where, original brackets were just better back in the day and less apt to let the nut pull off the base to get stuck in the wood... or, just like Williams' infamous "oops" of assembling switches backwards in the same era, they installed the leg brackets "backwards" in a bunch of games too? I guess an air tool could pull the nuts into the wood to that counterbore without much difficulty after all...

    #45 60 days ago
    Quoted from FatPanda:

    stole this pic of another person's Pharaoh and another's BK. I'm not saying anything, but i'm just saying
    [quoted image][quoted image]

    Can you tell if these are the punched an threaded brackets? Or do they have the pressed nut as your do?

    #46 60 days ago
    Quoted from cottonm4:

    Can you tell if these are the punched an threaded brackets? Or do they have the pressed nut as your do?

    I cant tell from the pics but this is my Alien Poker. Kind of forgot I had this 20200504_182400 (resized).jpg

    #47 60 days ago

    If I need to, then yes definitely these and never the other brackets again. I'll spend the extra $8 on a set of four.

    #48 60 days ago
    Quoted from FatPanda:

    If I need to, then yes definitely these and never the other brackets again. I'll spend the extra $8 on a set of four.

    These two brackets are the same except for the extra material on the sides. They both have the same pressed in threaded insert. The one that is bigger with more material is really not needed. When you install the smaller bracket and tighten your leg bolts, you are going to have all the clamping action you need. The bolt pulls the leg tight to the outside of the cab; At the same time the bolt is pulling on the bracket. What you wind up with is a piece of inside corner wood is that is clamped tight between the bracket and the leg. It is not going anywhere. The bigger bracket looks nice but it is not going to give you anymore clamping action than the small bracket.

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    #49 60 days ago
    Quoted from cottonm4:

    The bigger bracket looks nice but it is not going to give you anymore clamping action than the small bracket.

    The point of the larger bracket is increased corner strength. If you want to take advantage of that feature you utilize the screw holes along the sides.

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