(Topic ID: 81977)

Predator Pinball: Mission Complete

By SkitBPinball

10 years ago


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#31 10 years ago

Looks great guys. If you get a chance, can we get a lights on, no one talking, overhead camera shot of a few games being played?

I know it sounds really boring to you but I would love the just watch some steady cam vids of things happening in the game.

Fingers crossed that this is coming to MGC so we all get to play it soon!
Also fingers crossed that I will get mine in time for our big charity event this year, MadRollinPinball 2014, Sept12-13.
http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/save-the-date-mad-rollin-pinball-2014-sept-12-13th#post-1480324

If you guys want to come, it would be great to have you.

Looks great.

#56 10 years ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

Congrats on the end of the long journey, Kevin and crew.E

You mean the start of the next chapter >> building em'

#80 10 years ago
Quoted from u2sean:

Congrats! Looks great - VERY nicely done! Something you can definitely be proud of. I'm sure this is just the start for SkitB. Can't wait to put up a few games on one local to me!

I know a local guy that may be getting one he will let you play.

I plan on setting mine up with a red velvet rope around it and will sell tickets to see it in person. For 50cents I will let you watch me play a game. For an additional dollar I will enter your initials intot he leader board if I have a good game.

#101 10 years ago

So really the only thing that I am looking forward to at this point is a reconfirmation that production is still on track for first games to go out April 6th and the rest to go out at a steady pace after that.

My only concern is that I need to plan ahead to have all the $$$ ready when I get the call.

#118 10 years ago
Quoted from Mtpacifico:

Ever thought of selling them as kits and allowing purchasers to assemble themselves?
Might be able to increase sales...
- Mike

these have been sold out for a long time and I think the wait list is pretty long?

#128 10 years ago
Quoted from Mtpacifico:

The production amount is what, 250? Not sure what the reason behind that number was (wanting to maintain a modest and reachable goal, available initial capital, etc), but if they prospect of assembling 250+ is something the company wouldn't be interested in then perhaps offering a kit option would allow them to surpass that initial 250 production run.
Just throwing out ideas to get more pins in collectors hands.
- Mike

it is LIMITED to 250. Period. End of story. Get on the wait list if you are interested. There are NO kits and thankfully they will all be built by a trained team.

#183 10 years ago
Quoted from rommy:

Let me ask - the guys who bought to speculate and flip, are you at Skit-B comfortable watching a spot get bid up while you are still assembling machines? Do you anticipate any reaction if say Predator started selling for 7k or 8k on Pinside? like raising the projected price of Duck Hunt ?

Pretty sure spots are not transferrable and there is no reselling prior to delivery allowed, unless someone is selling behind the scenes and trusts the reseller to actually delover the game to them after it arrives.

This only seems fair as guys are on the wait list already.

#185 10 years ago

Kevin I want to make sure I am not confused from the email that went out to pre-owners earleir today/yesterday???

Money is not due for my machine yet, correct? I assume I will get a dedicated email telling me shorthly before my 50% down payment is due. With production starting in April and 40 games per month, is it safe to assume I will need to pay 50% around July for August production of my game (I am around production # 140-160 I think)?

Just checking as I will need to make some decisions soon on if I start working the corner or sell some other games.

#189 10 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

They just announced the "Ruby Blood Red Edition"

Quoted from Toasterdog:

I'll hold out for the "Predator Blood Green/UV Edition"

These comments are not going to help new people that are interested...

Like Blondetall said >> 250 is IT!

#219 10 years ago

Please, Please, Please do NOT put globalls in Predator for the shows it is at!!!!!!

I can NOT stress this enough! I do not want to have my only chance to potentially play a final production game prior to my purchase be limited to playing with balls that are different. Put normal balls in it for shows! I want to play it like it was originally intended.

Sure they look cool, but let owners play the game as it was originally intended and decide on their own at a later date what crap to add or not add.

The game should be playable EXACTLY as is will come from you when delivered!

Full power, normal balls, normal lighting, normal pitch, etc...

#223 10 years ago
Quoted from CraZ4Pin:

Dang, feel pretty strongly about this do you?? lol. You really believe the glo-balls play so differently and will change your experience in a lighted ballroom that much?

Yes, I have 2 sets of the globalls and they play VERY differently than a normal ball. They are a fun novelty but play totally different. I have tried them in almost all of my games but they sit on the shelf in their packaging as they are just not much fun to actually play with in a game ona regular basis. They also get beat up pretty quickly and for the cost are not a mod I would currently reccomend to anyone. Maybe in the future they will be made more durable?

After the tribulations of expo, there are many buyers that deserve to see and play the game in a factory original state before a final commitment.

#239 10 years ago
Quoted from SkitBPinball:

The deposit call is something of a "soft" now. We've done a TON of logistics to make sure that everything can be achieved by giving everyone as large of a window as possible, but July or August is definitely a ways off. We haven't set an exact cutoff date for it yet, but it won't be long at all before it becomes absolutely necessary to continue with the build. If you were waiting for something of a heads-up to start making room and such, that is definitely upon us.

Can I wait till after MGC to make my big 50% deposit so I get a chance to play the final game? This will be my first NIB purchase and is a BIG deal financially for me and will be by far my most expensive keeper purchase to date. It will also likely mean I need to sell some things of great personal value (like my freshly restored and clearcoated RFM?) sooner rather than later. I was secretly hoping that you guys would take just slightly longer as my wife will be starting gainful employement in June and we will have 2 incomes for the first time in over 4 years

#246 10 years ago

I will say I think I prefer the new hopper location and action on him.

#309 10 years ago

I think I have come up with my quote?

"Better than spending it on hookers and blow"
"No.247"

#312 10 years ago
Quoted from rai:

I would get on the waiting list, it's free and I suspect ~50 people will back out.

I suspect you are way off! Considering the apparent flurry of people getting on the waiting list after the final announcement I think few would be silly enough to drop off at this point (granted that assumes it plays like we all assume when we see it in person at MGC and other spring shows).

#316 10 years ago
Quoted from CptAwesomest:

This is very debatable
"I've spent nearly all of my money on women, booze, drugs and pinball... the rest of the money I wasted"

True

Maybe "My balls were on the lockdown before you played"

#372 10 years ago

claw is what grabs/diverts about half way down on left side of pf.

#378 10 years ago

Pretty sure it was made 'public' after/around Expo that things had changed in the organization.

All I care is that the business goes on and I get a polished game when my build time comes!

#431 10 years ago
Quoted from rai:

That does not sound good.

Sounds like about what I expected. A new production game is bound to have issues, esp at the first show of the season. Hopefully any bugs get worked out ASAP and we see improvements as the show season continues.

#491 10 years ago
Quoted from NYP:

Think I'll pass my machine on to someone who will appreciate it more than me, hope it all works out in the end, still support what the Skit-B guys have done but going with my gut on this one. I'm going to email them so it goes to the person next in order and won't be entertaining any 'bids" for my spot. I'll assume I won't be getting any fond farewells and i'll try not to let the door hit me on the way out.
Production Number: 162
Production Order: 138

I will give you props for knowing you are out and just doing the right thing and passing it on the the next guy on the waitlist.

#492 10 years ago

I TRUST in SKITB. nuff said.

If you have doubts that all issues will be addressed then you should probably bail at this point and let someone else fill the spot.

I love the optimism of Skit B (production starting in April and 40 a month after that) and fully expect some delays. Bets guess is the first 10 will go out and then a lag while those early testers are able to help work out the bugs. Thing swill get better and grow once in our homes. Those of us lucky enough to be IN are a sub community and really all part of the (Some Kids In The Basement) gang.

I am excited to still be in on this ride and wish I had the financial capabilities to toss them 100% payment at this stage. My gut shows me that this will be a polished game when I get it and I think the reviews are very positive as there are big improvements since expo. If all the physics are worked out then all these minor bugs are relatively small potatoes. Looking forward to playing one at MGC in April!

#501 10 years ago
Quoted from Wahchintonka:

It seems that a lot a negativity surrounding Predator come from people like you who aren't even on the list to get one. It is almost like you are so upset that you cannot get your hands on one that you feel the need bash it and tear it down in hopes that others will drop off the list. While the rarity of the pin is why we got in when we did, it is not the reason we are planning to buy one. We are still in because we like the features, the rules and we like Skit-B.

Hit the nail on the head with our most recent Predator troll!

Very well said.

#550 10 years ago

Thanks for the honest review B.

Looking forward to things being addressed and seeing improvements by the time MGC roles around.
No worries if you need delays to get things right guys.

#564 10 years ago
Quoted from Marc:

-whyshow will like it no matter what
Sounds like calling it done was premature.

You are trolling but I will still respond. To say I will like it no matter what is both silly and stupid. In case you have not realized I have been a critic of many things on Predator and for the most part those things have been addressed in a very good way up to this point. I am optimistic based on the history of the team making this happen that all other things will be fixed. Why would they stop short at this stage in the game???

I agree that saying "mission complete" was over optimistic from Kevin but no worse than where those words originally became popular from some lost village idiot.

I am looking forward to some steady improvements from show to show and really hope that 1 month from now when it is at MGC I will get to play a "done" version and decide at that point if it is time to add money or pull out.

#576 10 years ago

Was the UV layer thing part of the original build list? Just curious as it always seemed like an after thought to me.

#586 10 years ago

Looking at that video again, the UV layer obviously works so it seems it may just be a matter of how much light is hitting it? Seems in that video if you look at the sides where the flood is not direct you can still see the extra layer? Could possibly be an easy fix of getting a few well placed LED black light spots?

I will of course wait to judge till I get to see it in person on MGC, but still seems like a fixable thing.

#590 10 years ago

I am hoping at MGC that I have an opportunity for some lights out play at the after party?

#611 10 years ago
Quoted from kaneda:

I hear ya...I don't think there's been a more "on the fence" game than this...It all has to do with the THEME. We all LOVE Predator so much that even if the pin is so-so, the theme just seems worth it. If this was a less desirable theme, everyone would have bailed by now. Cause let's face it, there's nothing new being brought to the table here in terms of innovation or uniqueness outside of the theme. The UV light was the one new thing, and now that's a maybe.
I just wish someone would have taken some video of gameplay during the last show...even the video's SkipB uploaded were all ark and off center. Just so hard to get some straight answers now when straight answers should be easy to come by, since it's mission complete time.

What does it take to get you banned form this site? Coming into a thread and constantly insulting SkitB when you are not in for the game, are not on the wait list, and have no intentions of even getting a game makes you look like a complete donkey. Your constant attacks on the team and calling them SkipB like a 2nd grader are pretty silly. You are not entitled to any answers and it seems pretty obvious you have some sort of side motive at this point.

#615 10 years ago

I am not going to rehash all the bullshit you have been spouting about Predator just a few pages back about the game, the team, and the people that are in for this ride.

In case anyone missed it, Kaneda is the donkey offering to buy a slot for a premium (against the wishes of the team) and then trying to hint he got a game some backdoor way. Since that plan failed he is hoping he will be able to bag on a game he has never even seen or played so others will drop off the list and he can get one. Keep in mind he also thinks those of us on the list are all rich guys that are treating this like a commodity, hence negating our support for some regular guys to get a dream game built.

There is not a whole lot to read into here, your words have been pretty clear how you feel and seems obvious what your motive is. Pretty sad. I think Aurich said it better when he asked you to go crawl back under the rock you came from (or something to that effect)...

#623 10 years ago

and after that is likely MGC in WI. I will be there to report/play.

#664 10 years ago
Quoted from flashburn:

The silence from Kevin is deafening.

hey, that is my line

#682 10 years ago

I am hoping the silence means that Kevin and crew are working out a solution before the next show.

Their is an optimal wavelength to get UV to activate and that is pretty much the blacklight spectrum. At the optimal wavelength you are doing a better job at exciting the particles which then fluoresce as they shed the energy.

I personally think the lack of UV at the LAX show is due to a combination of factors of angle of incidence, spectrum, and intensity. All things that are addressable.

#714 10 years ago

Just want to say that I am not blind to the issues, but rather that I am both optimistic and confident that they will be addressed.

I appreciate the reports from the LAX show, hope to get reports from the next show, and will report from MGC. I will hold judgement till I physically play the "done" machine.

#716 10 years ago

Rommy > He was an employee. He no longer works for the company. he will not have a leg to stand on if he tried to bring up some frivalous lawsuit. On top of that, I believe they are all friends and things ended ammicably. End of story. It really should be no concern of ours...

#721 10 years ago

that is pretty funny. Guess that is what I get with typing before my morning caffine...

I also suck at typing.

#724 10 years ago

did that one on purpose

pinside needs spell check...

#743 10 years ago

It should be easy to stay in when the only money down is the $250 deposit.

I can only assume/hope that they are busy making tweaks and the machine will speak for itself at the next show. I am anxiously awaiting to play at MGC in early April!

#814 10 years ago

I will wait for more pics and video from the next show as I patiently look forward to playing it myself at MGC.

As a point to BadBilly, SkitB NEEDS to make it to as many shows as possible and WITH the actual complete project.
They may have 250 sold and a long waiting list, but that is still 100% refundable at this stage. It is really the time for them to put up and make others shut up so they are willing to send off the remaining $4500.

Now more than ever IS the time to travel to shows, ensure all are committed, get 1/2 payments and start producing those games to get the remaining 1/2 payment.

#822 10 years ago

Yeah, the pin needs to actually be fully functional/complete AND come to the shows IMHO.

I agree that no need to bring it to shows with issues as that is obviously doing more harm than good.

#826 10 years ago

Sorry, I only see blondtalltail when I read your screen name...

#855 10 years ago
Quoted from Jared:

He even welcomed the photographers, what a champ!

So can we get some live action streaming with question and answer session with you while you are there?

#861 10 years ago
Quoted from Jared:

I have the technology... and the means to do it... but I am going to leave that one up to the Skit-B dudes. I dont want to put them on the spot (Like I did at EXPO last year). I am just going to take some very nice high res photos of the machine at all possible angles, play several games on it and write an unbiased report.
If Skit-B agrees, I can do a pinside exclusive live video session where I can repeat questions asked by the viewers to him so he can respond live via camera...
But honestly thats a little hardcore...
If Skit-B does a panel at the TPF I will step over and live-stream that one.

Now THAT would be EPIC

#906 10 years ago

having anything but regular balls in Predator is STUPID!

Why is this even happening? Unless it was designed for those crap globalls (it was not) then it should NOT have them in it for shows. The balls suck, they are floaty, and get beat to crap quickly. Pull them out and put standard back in so people can play it like it is intended please.

#914 10 years ago
Quoted from rolandthoms:

I flew from San Francisco to Texas to play Predator and decide whether to stay in or not. I have played the game about 7 times. I'm in

Please let us know your opinions on Pros/Cons and what conversation you had with SkitB.

#951 10 years ago

Is this the first iteration with the pop bumpers lit?

Thanks for the great coverage and pics and videos and interview Jared! It is greatly appreciated. I missed the second portion of the first ustream recording and can not seem to get it to load for me??? anyone else try?

Really pumped for MGC now!

#952 10 years ago
Quoted from MK6PIN:

How much is this machine? Have all been preordered? Apologize, as this has probably been posted a long, long time ago......just stumbled on this review.....thanks....mark

4750. All 250 of them long ago sold out and it sounds like 132? on the waitlist?

#961 10 years ago

Depending on where they set up for MGC, I should be able to get some dark/lights off play pics/vid (assuming Kevin will welcome this) ?

#965 10 years ago
Quoted from flashburn:

Well, Kevin did say that if people started requesting this, they would include them as an option. Maybe it'd be a good idea to setup a poll? He said there was still room on the sheet for these plastics, so they'd basically be free for them.

In that case, seems like a no brainer to not include them in the sheet plus a few extra of the most likely broken plastics.

If it fits on the sheet then it sounds like no extra cost so might as well get the most use of the sheet as possible.

#966 10 years ago

I always thought the inlane ball guides would eventually have plastics covering them.

-1
#977 10 years ago
Quoted from rai:

Please, everyone don't attack any negative reviews. I want to hear the bad as well as the good.
Too often, I have expressed a question pr concern and had people say something like I should just drop off if I didn't like it. This is kind of the vibe I get from some here whenever anything isolated the slight bit negative against Predator.
I just hope this does not prevent some people from posting their free opinions.

That is because for months now you just complain and are the continual pessimest.

It seems many welcome the constructive yet critical comments, inclusing Kevin. I sure do, but just pissing and moaning with no solutions should get you lynched. Keep in mind lots of people will crap on Pred just liek lots will Fluff without reason.

#990 10 years ago

Thanks for all the coverage at TPF Jared!

I hope we get more of the same at MI pinball this weekend, followed by the promised video form skit B nexy week, followed by MGC.

I am really looking forward to getting my hands on this finished game.

#1000 10 years ago

As it currently stands I am really looking forward to laying my hands on Predator at MGC.

I have taken some time to digest the images, reports, and opinions of those people at LAX and TPF shows. My opinion is based on the caveat that I have not played the game in person since 2013 MPE or seen it since 2013 Expo. Things will likely change for me (one way or the other) post MGC.

The following are a few things that can likely be modified at this stage and I think are relatively minor but could really up the overall finsihed product. JMHO

Currently, the GI lighting needs to be changed. I have spent a great deal of time learning how to LED a game properly and Predator appears to be just too damn bright. I would like to see some WARM frosted premiums in lower GI with sparse amount of colored bulbs to be sure not to color bomb while still adding flare. Currently the game is too cool in light choice. The jungle should feel warm and moist with lush green foilage. The game plastics are predominantly green and warm bulbs do a better job lighting up cool spectrum colors.

The plastics do appear to have art of much lower quality than the pf. The detail is just not there and plastics should be something critically evaluated and likely still modifiable at this stage. Kevin, if you are not sure of this, then how about providing some of us with the current design files and letting us do some tweaks to see what we can come up with? There is the possibility that the community of 250 can help be part of an improvement. In conjunction, the inlane guides really should have plastics. It is a small aspect that still seems unfinished.

I went back through a large bolus of posts and I was under the impression the current plastics we are seeing are not what was intended to be the final plastics? I could not find the exact post but around the time that the plastics were revealed Kevin spoke about future changes to the plastics and that there were holes that are no longer needed and will be removed.

The UV tubes appear to still be an issue and in proto stage. It looks odd to always be ON in the current game and previous iterations were that it only would light up during hunt modes. It seems like ART has some potentially good ideas and he is an up and coming LED guy so please reach out to him and take him up on his offer to help look at the possibilities for chages that could possibly be simple to implement and provide the desired end product. Some tests with differnet lighting styles and techniques could really bring this all together.

#1034 10 years ago
Quoted from PinManV:

This is directed to Kevin... at MGC, could we look at taking Predator to a small interior room (for pitch black play) or even up the elevator to a hotel room? for the guys that are in on Predator (myself included) to play and see the game in a total dark environment? I'd really like to see the UV in this setting. I traveled specifically to Expo last fall to play Predator but the game never worked, so I'm going to MGC to make a final decision on your game. I really want to see all it has to offer. Thank you for considering.

I do not know, but can only assume that Predator will be in the regular arcade area. This means that the after party has an added draw! Bring a game and be part of the fun and hopefully also get to play predator in a dark after party arcade experience!

#1073 10 years ago
Quoted from rai:

I never did understand the two stand up targets in the center of the PF.

LOFL

#1094 10 years ago
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

I have finished testing the COB Panel.
UV Light carries a distance of 3-4 feet with no problems and has an effect up to 6 Feet.It will light the majority of a playfield with one panel, 1" x 1.5".
I wil try some pictures to share, but Kevin, My Predator Master...pick up the phone and call me....you really need to try this....
Art

Priority mail me one ready to wire in and I will take it to MGC!

I will cover the cost if you want to do this!

10
#1160 10 years ago

As I promised, here is my review post MGC. I should not have to say it, but this is all my opinion. Anyone that knows me or has met me typically determines that I am over analytical and a no bullshit sort of guy (for better or worse). I call it like I see it and I will freely admit I often do a poor job of conveying my 'feelings' (I am also a non-emotive prick I am told) or thoughts in text. Take it for what it is worth. None of this is meant to be argumentative and I am just laying some thoughts out there in an overly exhausted (12 hrs of sleep since Thursday because MGC is too much fun to sleep!) mind dump sort of way.

Full disclosure, I signed up for Predator around expo 2012 and as of this past Friday I was giving the game its final shot to convince me one way or the other. I went in with an open mind and decided I would approach it like it was any new game that I stumbled across. Anyone that knows me also knows that me "being in" on predator does not impact my thoughts in ANY way on the game or bias my opinions. I maintain a critical edge and eye for detail no matter what. Worth mention is that many that are not in on the game have plenty of biases so the coin flips both ways Half-Life.

Over the course of the weekend I put over 30 games on Predator (and watched another 90 likely). I spent a great amount of time looking at both the details and the big picture. When I first started playing (the first 5 games) I actually was very disappointed and my initial reaction is that I was “out”. The game was not fine tuned, the pops are not on hair triggers, the right return lane can lead to SDTM drains when not prepared, the slings did not have enough action for my liking. Side note: these are actually very similar issues to what AMH and many other games actually at the show had >> not a bag on anyone but few people look at a game the way I tend to and think about fine tuning small things (each and every switch has an optimal adjustment to make a game play like it really should) that actually impact the overall performance and feel of a game. Luckily, all these things are easy adjustments.

Once you calm yourself down after the initial frustration on any game not tuned in to your liking and realize that these are all things that are in your control when you have your own version of any game at home, then I tend to look at any game with attention to the aspects of the game that I cannot easily change and evaluate those items.

Some more specific thoughts:
The cabinet is great
The sound package is really nice and well thought out. It makes the game very immerse and brings you in. Quality of sound is top notch.
The trim package is spot on.
The pf art is really nice and still unique in feel.
The siders are cool but I do not have the space for them.
The ramps are nice quality and while I prefer them to be clearer, the slight clouding makes the UV light really pop in the ramps. They also appear to be indestructible.

The ramps and other shots on the game are very tight. Mike mentioned that the shots do not feel polished and I initially felt the same way but after about game 10 I was getting a feel for them and learned how to shoot the layout much better. These shots are all completely makeable but very challenging. IMHO this is a great thing if you are a player as the game will hold up well over time. I get bored quickly on games where I can make a shot too easily. The ramps feel good to shoot and are back handable with a good shot. Actually the orbits are even backhandable.

The DMD dots are really good, but worth note that I think the DMD text needs more contrast and my wife agreed. The text tends to get washed out with the animations at some times. The text needs to pop through a little better.

The plastics are bland in comparison to the rest of the art package and feel the most out of place from an aesthetic POV. The shapes of the plastics are odd to me (large triangle in areas where contours or simply following lines of ramps with more layering would look better). I would like to see more thought put into the plastic set and also would like to see inlane guide plastics. The plastics being modified could go a long way to making the game be more complete and polished, but that said >> I don’t play the plastics. I would like to divorce the plastics but if Kevin is married to them then I can deal with it on the back end. This is something that can be altered on the back end even though I would like to see it changed up front as I think it can have a large impact on the overall immersion aspect of the game. If it does not change, I can only imagine that the community will make something better on the back end. The art package lacks a completely cohesive feel and to me is evident that the spate components were put together my different people.

The UV effect works in a DARK room, but is simply not at the level of intensity it needs to be. You can see the predator face but not at the level of intensity that it needs for the unique feature to be considered a success. I played the game a TON at the after party and I was able to get the lights completely turned off on that side of the room. The only other lighting was that of other games giving off an arcade glow. Sure, I could make my room darker at home, but that is not how I ever want to play nor do I intend to play. I have actually been thinking about this feature on the side and there are really 3 parts to the equation that can be adjusted to possibly find a better solution, the nanometer fluorescence range of the ink used, the lighting used to make it react, and the application method. I am not sure what the answer to this equation is, but I do know (think) that is can be done to really make it pop. To me the UV bulbs currently in the game are not optimal and I would steer back to a different lighting set up. If the UV ink can only come in the 360nm range the lighting needs to be adjusted to pin point that range. Ideally they would find an ink that is closer to the 395nm range as it will fluoresce better and be more visible to more people if they go back to UV LEDs (the closer to 395 the better shot of more people being able to pick it up when activated yet unable to see it under normal lighting) and is more easily activated by typical UV light sources. They can also look into some blue or violet laser options as they are potentially viable options. The other thing to examine is the UV ink application process. I think a process change of printing the normal ink screens, then printing the UV layer, then a super think clear coat is likely blocking some of the UV (that is what clear coat does). Maybe switching to normal> UV> nice clear coat > additional UV > final top layer of clear would be a solution. What is currently in the game is not optimal and for me does not work, but again… I don’t play the UV ink. If the SkitB guys are struggling then I hope they reach out to some of the really smart minds and see if there is a solution/improvement that can be made before things are truly cemented in the production games.

It is worth mention that the UV layer is VERY important to game play as the blood trails need to be more visible to help you line up your shots. The switch from normal lighting to only UV when doing hunts takes your eyes a second or 2 to adjust but each hunt is only for a few second. If the UV blood trails were popping through then these shots would be better and less “blind” in feel. You can still make these hunt shots but a UV blood trail that works better would really help to polish it.

The 2 standups in the center are well placed and do what they are intended to do. They make you think about your play and a wicked hard when to inadvertently hit them. One bad shot turns into a flailfest to get the ball back under control. As a player I LIKE this. I did talk with Kevin about the width of the slot that the targets come through and that it is too big. This is apparently being adjusted before “completion”. I actually like the 2 circle stand ups better than the rectangle ones from before.

The GI is way too bright for my tastes and needs to be fine tuned. Warm white premiums would go a long way to help. Again, this is within my control so I can live with it.

The coding and gameplay is flat out F U N! This game had me coming back for more and more every time I played it. I played more games on Predator than any other game. I also took the shot to try and explain the rules I had figured out to anyone that wanted to listen or play with me. Those people that understood what was going on actually “got it”. This is more evidence to me that if you don’t know how to play this game it is not going to do much for you other than look pretty, but once you figure out the feel of the tight shots and how to actually play the game is all begins to click. I saw this evolution in myself as I played more games and spent more time actually appreciating what the game has to offer.

If you want to be passive entertained by pinball then I would say that Predator is not for you. If you want a game that is perfect out of the box then you should either take a wait and see approach or be prepared to make your own changes on the back end. I feel that the majority of things I am not able to easily modify either have been or will be addressed before the REAL completed games are ready to go. UV effect and plastics are things that IMHO need to still be addressed. I would like some other fine tunes (text contrast and GI) but those are not worth mentioning on the level as the previous.

A bit if advice is that the SkitB team should critically examine their PR and the perceptions of the public for the short and long haul. Sorry guys but you need to work on your online communication and it causes some level of concern about what support will be in place after my game is delivered. I do ask myself, “what support will I get when I have a 1 off problem if the current UV problem is being somewhat evasively answered?” A simple statement of “the UV layer is not as intense as we would like and we are still looking into viable options to see if we can make improvements” goes much further in earning respect and trust then “it works in a completely dark room” Maybe you guys do not see the reality yet, but I hope you do. Also, the game was working flawlessly for the majority of the show but on Saturday nobody showed up till after noon to turn it on and again on Sunday it sat unplayed for a good chunk of the day because none of the team was there to flip the switch so people could play it. In contrast, the Spooky guys were available and had the booth manned for the majority of the show and were readily available and accessible. This perception in the public eye is impacted greatly as I heard many people comment how “Predator is broken again and sitting idle with nobody around”

The take home message is that this game is 100% F U N and is built by players for players. I will repeat it for gravity >> THIS GAME IS MADE BY PLAYERS AND FOR PLAYERS. If playing is what you value most in pinball then you own it to both yourself and the game to actually put some time in on this game and get a true feel for how it shoots and how to ACTUALLY play it. I originally put down my deposit on the game because the code/ game play drew me in at the whitewood stage and I am committed to see this project through to completion as I was reminded that the code and game play is really great. I am still IN on this game for the same reasons. With 250 being made by some guys that re just like many of us (but more talented and committed) I have a different scale that I measure on and am willing to see out the door. That said, I will still happily pay 4750 for my Predator game well ahead of anything else currently close to that range. If AMH was closer in price then it would be a tough decision, but to me the additional $1500 is significant. If money was not object I would buy AMH and Predator.

#1161 10 years ago

Also, this is the best picture I could get of the UV predator face in the dark arcade hall. It is more visible in person than can be pictured but just wanted to show that you can see it if you look.

P4120714.JPGP4120714.JPG

#1164 10 years ago

Here is some circling to help you see some of the ink. The face is visible in person but you do have to focus on it.
As I said, it needs some real intensity to pop.P4120714.JPGP4120714.JPG

#1174 10 years ago

Also meant to say that Kevin spoke with me about the previous LED UV strips casting more visible light which was washing out the ability to see the UV ink that was actually reacting. Made me think about the idea of using a a more intense light option like LEDs but then filtering the visible portion back down to a more manageable level.

#1182 10 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Might be a real difference between UV reactive pigments like those games have that are still visible to the naked eye vs the hidden UV art that Predator is using.

From my research, there is a big difference.

#1192 10 years ago

Kevin > do you have a spare pf I can buy in advance to play around with this? The nerd in me would like to help out. Even if I can not do it, I am sure someone in the group can.

Details on the specific ink used, clear coat used, and different lighting options tried thus far are a good starting point to see if others can make some tweaks.

#1198 10 years ago

Rai, I have never met you in person but from what I can tell based on your online presence, I do honestly not think you will be happy with Predator.

For me personally, I had the option of playing both tron and lotr at MGC this past weekend but did not play a single game on either. I played 30plus on predator. I dont really care for the predator theme but I do like the adult content of the theme.

I think my take home message from my review is something that should be seriously thought about by anyone on the fence. If you want to be passively entertained then you will be much better off with something else in the price range (i.e. Stern Pro model or a recent HUO).

If gameplay and the fun/challenge of owning a unique game is something you value (and you will not be frustrated when a small company does not put out a perfect game) then stick it out on Predator. I think many should take a deeper look at why you are getting in on Predator.

Also worth mention is that if you are in on Predator to flip for profit, I think that is unlikely. Predator does not seem to have the fanfare for a quick flip. Buy something you will enjoy now rather that taking a personal risk on something that is likely to be a little rough around the edges even when truly 'complete'.

#1207 10 years ago
Quoted from shootar:

You will be able to pick up a LOTR anytime (my favorite pin). But i doubt if you pass on Predator you'll be able to find another come up for sale as easily.

good point, but I think a handful of people are just buying to flip so there will be some still available at the onset at minimum.

Quoted from tricky4815:

Just wondering ... but I know with the Hobbit, you can sell your spot. Is this the same with Predator?

I suppose you could attempt to work something backdoor, but the short answer is NO, you can not sell your spot. If you want to jump off the list and already have a deposit down SkitB will refund your deposit and let the next person on the waiting list know there number has been picked. With over 175 on the waiting list already the right thing to do is just get off if you no longer are interested. Plenty of other pinheads ready to get on board and take over your spot.

#1218 10 years ago

I think CAX is where they intend to unveil game #2

#1237 10 years ago

some things can/likely will change on this game before it is really complete, but removing/moving the 2 center targets is not likely one of those things...

#1244 10 years ago

Some people just want to piss and moan about the things that are not going to change it seems.

#1248 10 years ago

It is the criticism over and over part that makes it easy to gloss over the good points that you post.

People have been harping on the center targets for a little over a year. It just sounds like a broken record, esp when coming form people that have not even played the game.

#1250 10 years ago

I should have said, people that do not know how the game is intended to be played.

I am just being honest, but until I actually figured out how the designer intended for the game to be played I hated those damn targets. After around 10 consecutive games I began to understand the real way to play the game and the targets work perfectly for what they were intended (don't screw up, play better, plan your shots).

I will say that there is something VERY different when people bag on a mass produced game compared to repeated bagging on a game being built by a small group of guys and they also do not provide any viable constructive criticism.

"Close targets" "Targets too close" "Targets too prominent" just turns in to blah blah blah really quickly after the 300th time in the past year. Pretty sure the targets are there for the long haul so you are beating a dead horse. Do you have a viable solution to what you think is a design flaw?

#1267 10 years ago
Quoted from MikeS:

For economies of scale it would make sense for Skit-B to order parts for all 250 games at once which would likely mean collecting funds from a majority of buyer's prior to production? Or are they only ordering enough to build small batches at a time?

Unfortunately that would be dramatically different than what was the original agreement and likely would not work for many people.

The original argeement is $250 deposit, half of remainder when the game is ready to be produced and the other half when the game is ready for delivery. They have said they will be building in batches of 10-20 games so I can not imagine them asking for money from more than 40-60 people, which would allow them to build the original batch plus the next 2 or 3 batches so they can keep things moving. They also need to demonstrate that they are able to build the production game and get a batch into hands of paid owners relatively quickly if they want to maintain the business model they have been putting forth.

Hopefully they will provide some better clarification and communication SOON. They promised a video prior to MGC and that did not happen so at minimum they should be letting peopel know when they will see a video and a final procution game. Kevein pointed out that there are some changes to the one from MGC so I would assume we can all see those changes and the "real" completed game before actually sending in more $$?

#1269 10 years ago

completely agree

#1275 10 years ago
Quoted from IdahoRealtor:

Didn't Kevin already post a "Mission Complete" video about 2 months ago of the supposed final version? Has anything changed on the game since then?

At minimum I was told the slot that the 2 center target comes through would be made width appropriate (the current prototype game at MGC the slot was the dimension needed for 2 large rectangular targets and WAY too big for the small circular ones).

I also can only assume that some sort of change is coming for the UV light or ink effect. At minimum some communication to state if it is not changing is appropraite. What is currently on the prototype at MGC was not worthwhile and they would be better off just removing the lights and saving $$$ if that is the end product.

Communication is the real key at this stage.

I want this game, but would be hard pressed to provide ANY more $$$ with the lack of communication and no actual contract for what the finished product will be. I am happy to provide more refundable deposit or even non-refundable payment if the communication is there and I have a contract for what I am getting in return for my money.

#1300 10 years ago

From my perspective, I saw the UV effect in the darkest possible arrangement my game room will ever offer when at the MGC afterparty (no room lights on, all windows covered, and only the lighting of other games on at a distance) and it needs to be altered to be viewable in that arrangement. To be a success for me, I need to be able to see blood trails when in hunt mode in a normal home arcade with the lights off.

1 week later
#1421 9 years ago
Quoted from rai:

If I can't see the game and play it, I'm out. .

With a waitlist of over 160 at this point, I think they are taking the right stance to not go to any more shows. Time, effort, and money need to be sepnt on the next phase of this project >> building production games.

People travelled great distances to go to the shows they advertised being at and you could have done the same. Those that played it by and large had some constructive critisisms but the majority have said they are IN. At the same time, the wait list grew exponentionally from just the few shows they went to.

I understand the desire to play it before purchase, but you had ample opportunity to travel to a show if that was your perogative. It is what it is, but now is the time to make your decision if you are in the iniital few batches which they have asked for money. Either piss or get off the pot.

Just curious, but did you see and play all of your LE Stern games before committing to purchase?

#1424 9 years ago

Also worth note Rai, is that this purchase is finacially very tough for me and will by far be the most expensive game in my entire collection, but I am IN after extensive time on it at MGC. That should be worth something.

I will say that I am happy to not be in the first batch of games being made as that is the one last hurdle I look forward to seeing without having to pony up more $ myself. I am very thankful to those that have already paid in full and those that are in the first 80 or so that got the "money needed" email. If I had gotten the email, I would still be paying up the additional 50% deposit (afetr seeing the upcoming video).

#1440 9 years ago
Quoted from badbilly27:

Whysnow your a bud but I need to call you out on this one. I made an identical statement weeks ago and everyone, including yourself, who was going to MGC shut my comment down. Now after MGC, you guys echo my statement.

images-7.jpeg 9 KB

Weeks ago, they were previously confirmed/committed to MGC, production had not started, and there were no emails requiring payments in to hold your production spot.

Things have changed in the past few weeks >> They were never committed to Allentown, production is now started?, and people have paid to get games produced. In conjunction, the wait-list rapidly grew from the few shows they attended so that will of course give them some data/confidence that they have done enough shows and all 250 will go out the doors even if some "IN" turn to "OUT" as the back-fill list if long.

Now is the time for a video to make people happy that were not able or choose to not go to any of the shows they had committed to. Now is the time for firm commitment of exactly what the game will contain and if ANYthing else will change from what is in the upcoming video and what we can expect in our production games. NOW is the time to make games. ONCE they requested money, the focus should be on 1 thing, and that is the next gate >> get the games built and show everyone that you can cross that hurdle.

Timing is everything

#1445 9 years ago
Quoted from badbilly27:

Fair enough. The conversation was a month ago so things have changed with the payment email. Just like you I'd just like them to focus down on Predator now.
Just trying to keep it real my friend - consider me served.

nothing wrong with keepin it real brother. Now sell me your Wwind or SC for a reasonable price and we will call it good...

#1459 9 years ago
Quoted from bigduke13:

For those in the first "block" of builds a deposit of at least $2,750 is due May 1st.

And from my talking with others it appears the first block is the first 80ish on production???

#1464 9 years ago

by my accounting people nearer the front moved up 20ish and people nearer the back moved up 40ish in the past 12ish months.

#1473 9 years ago

I will take an early production number if someone wants to trade with me.

I am around #150 production. I would be happy to take your production slot Art.

If I get a first run production # then maybe Jetzxi and I can carpool to pick ours up?

#1487 9 years ago
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

If that fits Kevin, and possibly coordinated with a 2 pin pallet here...(2 pins is max, right?)
Then I dont have a problem, Hilton...2nd or 3rd group of Production helps me.....

OK.

We can email Kevin and see if that is allowed and will work for you to get a combined shipment with others.

Me getting in the early production makes sense on many levels. Mostly, I really woudl liek to get my game sooner so I can bring it to MadRolin charity event.

#1529 9 years ago
Quoted from rai:

I thought Allentown was unknown if Kevin is going to be there.

Ted just made it official!

#1549 9 years ago
Quoted from kaneda:

I bet you paid in full.

dude, how many times do you need to be asked???

13
#1580 9 years ago
Quoted from dannunz:

Predator a no show at allentown. Very disappointing!

what exactly do you define "no show" as? WTF? SkitB NEVER said they would be there. Just because you magically want it to happen does not mean you get it. Pretty lame to try and insinuate more bullshit like this. They did not break a commitment since they never committed...

It would be like me saying "SkitB was a no show at my house this weekend. Very Disappointed!"

#1585 9 years ago

You are missing the fact that they made it clear recently that they would NOT be there.

There is also this >>> http://www.skitbpinball.com/endofexposeason.html

which has been on the SkitB website post MGC...

#1624 9 years ago

it is

#1646 9 years ago

I thought Kaneda was requested by mods to no longer comment in predator threads? Where is the ban hammer when we need it. Getting really tired of this guys schtick.

#1674 9 years ago
Quoted from Rick471:

Emailed Kevin weeks ago about refund on deposit...no response

assuming this is true (you have no reason to make it up but there are some sick people that would do such a thing), then this needs to be addressed IMMEDIATELY!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can someone who has phone contact with SkitB (Chris, Ted?) call them and let them know this is VERY bad for long term and short term business. Also completely inappropriate.

1 week later
#1842 9 years ago

I and Art are trying to swap spots. He is early, i am middle, and we both would like to switch for own personal reasons.

9 months later
-1
#1876 9 years ago
Quoted from DCfoodfreak:

Rai,
I love you man but unless you are back in this is a bit of trolling.

Seriously!

It has been asked numerous times what is the motivation behind those that do stuff like this...

Rai, what are you looking for with this resurection?

Do you kick your dog after he has an accident in the house also?

-2
#1895 9 years ago
Quoted from Astropin:

Talk about a "strawman" logical fallacy

obviously you missed the point...

Rai's ressurection/trolling in this case is so obvious that was the point. Nobody with any degree of intelligence would kick their dog when the dog screws up.Pretty said to see Rai still trolling Predator threads.

Pretty sad for anyone claiming to care about pinball and the hobby in general to be trolling what has become a very sad and sore spot for many pinsiders already. What positive can come from this other than some morbid entertainment for an outsider. Reality is that the straw that could actually break the compilation of bad decisions could in reality be the incesant trolling by a select few pinheads that genuinely appear to want the project to fail under all circumstances. The problem being that at this point egging on failure shows true colors that Rai appears to not only want the project to fail but would like 250 of his pinball community to lose out on their deposits??? Again, very sad IMHO.

#1900 9 years ago
Quoted from stainedundies:

but you cannot deny that we are all watching the same event and entitled to cheer or jeer as we see fit.

agreed, but I would say you are a pretty big asshat if you are rooting for the train to crash and putting derailers on the already wobbly tracks.

#1910 9 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

...let's ship his ass over there!

I would love to go over and build my own game! I have PTO to blow and Kevin knows where/how to reach me. Tell me the address and a time to be there. Give me the parts and a second one to look at and I will be happily leaving with my new game and likely some great memories to boot!

#1911 9 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I do think we should say "hey, where are the games you promised? where are the pics? what exactly are you doing now with the money you took from this community?"
Those seem like legit things to ask, that benefit us all.

Those are all completely legit, but I don't think Rai's smug intent of a picture of birthday balloon image to celebrate an obvious failure to deliver long ago was in the same sentiment of what you are saying...

I don't want to see anything besides the first 10 games completely built/play tested/ 100% ready to rock at this point! I preferably want an email before that that is telling me a date to come pick my game up (I am in the first 10).

#1916 9 years ago

Some pinsiders have actively been contacting various sources for parts, licensee holders, competitors, etc... on a regular basis to try and put the halt to the entire project.

I am not saying you and your stupid trolling will lead to its failure, but I definitely put your incessant and assholish trolling/rooting against them in the same category of those that were contacting FOX a few months back and those that have tried to create road blocks along the way.

It make ZERO sense to me that anyone would be actively rooting against some pinheads that are trying their best to do something new in pinball. They have failed on their own merits in many ways on the journey, but to claim to be a pinhead yet rooting against them just does not make sense to me.

#1921 9 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

What? Proof for that allegation?
And what would contacting someone do if the game was actually being built anyways?

I have PMs from a member (part of the 1 week ban from pinside a few months back for me), but I don't care to post his PMs in public. He explicitly talks about him and his buddies actively contacting people in legal at FOX because they wanted to put a stop to the entire project. There are mods on Pinside which were told a similar story from this Pinsider and if they want to chime in, they can.

#1924 9 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Not sure what's got into you lately Dave, but it seems that every time someone brings up issues with one of the pre-order companies you have been on this crusade of basically saying "if you have no skin in the game, then STFU."
We are all in this together as hobbyists. There needs to be some damn accountability here.

I commend Dave for trying to stay positive or stay out of the BS as Robin has requested a few times now. I have to agree that if you have no skin in the game then you are only possibly doing more harm than good with these trolling crusades of some people.

At this point SkitB has been making good on their promise for biweekly (or close to it I guess) updates to all that are pre-orderers. They have shown more in the past 8 weeks then we saw in the 6 months before that and that is a good thing.

If we are going to hold companies accountable then we should also be holding damn trolling accountable. It is one thing to come in and ask some genuine questions that have not been answered. It is a whole different thing to be a jerk and beat the same dead horse when things recently have been better. Trust me, we ALL want to see more and we ALL want the game to be delivered soon. We also are ALL holding SkitB accountable. At this point continual shitting on what has been positive progress as of late is not doing anyone any favors, esp those that have 3k plus in this project already.

#1936 9 years ago

I would guess wiring harnesses are coming along. They are tedious to design but once you come up with the correct configuration and make a proper peg board, they should be pretty simple and just take time. Keep in mind Predator is a pretty simple design with not too many parts so should not be too bad.

I would speculate that the ramps are PITA and pretty much the only game specific part we have not see in production scale levels yet.

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