(Topic ID: 181602)

Predator, zidware/Jpop games, Big Lebowski - How were you affected?


By Barakawins1

3 years ago



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  • Latest reply 3 years ago by badbilly27
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    -2
    #51 3 years ago

    I got ripped off when I purchased METLE if that will help any of you feel any better.

    #52 3 years ago
    Quoted from CaptainNeo:

    I know someone that will trade you a MM for that TBL.

    Have them throw in a another 10k and they got a deal.

    #53 3 years ago
    Quoted from ectobar:

    Have them throw in a another 10k and they got a deal.

    wow, you value MM at $0. That's even lower than prices I quote.

    #54 3 years ago

    Could someone give a brief synopsis of what happened with JPop and Predator to a newer pinsider, please?

    I put a $1000 deposit on what would have been one of the last of TBL in Dec 2016. I had my deposit refunded a few days ago because even if I get the game, the reports about reliability and customer support from people that had theirs didn't seem very impressive. And while the possible rarity of the game could make it very valuable, that would be less of a factor if I actually got my game as I was one of the last few.

    I am strongly thinking about pre-ordering Dialed In and the reason I haven't yet has nothing to do with any concern about JJP not delivering.

    Quoted from ectobar:

    Have them throw in a another 10k and they got a deal.

    TBL probably isn't worth $18-20K just yet but anyone who has one and doesn't need ten grand right now would be smart to hold onto their machine because it could be worth BBB levels or even more if the whole thing implodes and there are only about 20-60 machines out there. I would pay $10,000 for TBL for a game in hand without hesitation but wouldn't pay much more than that RIGHT NOW, especially if it was one with issues.

    #55 3 years ago

    I had $250 in on Predator, but got a refund when the payment terms changed and upfront payment was asked for from everyone. I was already on the fence after the dismal demo of the game at Louisville that year. Glad I got out when I did.

    #56 3 years ago
    Quoted from Russo121:

    but could be partially satisfied should he decide to start sucking on the end of a loaded Ruger P38 sometime soon. That's truly how i feel.

    Would his pirate cutlass be equally as satisfying?

    15
    #57 3 years ago

    JPOP: Was never paid a cent, nor received any promises of what I'd make on the Zombie game. Never had a contract either! Insane. But I learned a lot from John, even if he didn't practice what he preached. Glad I got pushed out early.

    Predator: Think we could have sold another 50 AMH had this thing not sucked money off the market. People gave money to a dumb con man redneck for his brick fest game instead of someone with my background. Proves that THEME (or fake license) is all that matters.

    TBL: We sold a LOT of AMH the week of Phil's "refund gate" in fact that's the point where sales really sped up.

    When things go bad we all lose. Money destroyed is never a good thing. The 2008 crash was mostly based off bad home loans, but it affected people who never bought a house as well.

    #58 3 years ago
    Quoted from mrgone:

    It looks like the dutch boys will be at tpf. The American playfield and plastic company as well. anyone with skin on mg and or tbl going to tpf there's your chance to unload on the lying, thieving scum. tpf could be very interesting this year.

    C'mon, do you really believe they will show up?

    16
    #59 3 years ago
    Quoted from TRAMD:

    Could someone give a brief synopsis of what happened with JPop and Predator to a newer pinsider, please?

    Jpop Cliffnotes:

    -Jpop says: I'm going to make 16 games called "Magic Girl", send me $16,000 to secure one! He has no pictures, no concepts, no way to code/animate/manufacture. He makes everyone sign an NDA. While this is expensive per game, there's NO WAY this makes financial sense to produce and manufacture a title. However, because of his B/W games, he has a cult-like status...and cult leaders can trick people into following them.

    -When it's clear he can't afford to make Magic Girl, he announces "I'm going to make Ben Heck's Zombie Adventure Land!" I'm going to make 125 of them for $10,000. Send me money and sign an NDA! He hasn't shown even a flipable whitewood for MG yet. It's clear this is a scheme...he needs money to finish the first game. People ignore that...the cult leader's influence is strong. People send him money for game #2. Eventually the name changes to Retro Atomic Zombie Adventure Land.

    -The pyramid scheme continues...he announces game #3, Alice in Wonderland before he still has shown ANYTHING for the first 2. PEOPLE SEND HIM MONEY!!!! Fool me once, twice...three times....

    -At Chicago Expo 2014, Dutch brings 3 fully playable Lebowski prototypes out of nowhere...and John brings and EMPTY CABINET to show off. This is when the wheels come off and the cult leader loses his grip...people start to come to their sense, demand answers, demand refunds, John hides out in his office/studio that people have been paying for....bullshit bullshit bullshit, lawsuits...and here we are.

    -There's a lawsuit, but somehow he used his culty culty magic on some newbs to start a new business called "American Pinball". He designs a game for them in exchange for their help building Magic Girl. People find out this company is helping him and are livid.

    -AP claims that they've built and are going to ship Magic Girl...but other than that now have nothing to do with John...we'll see...the saga continues.

    Skit-B Cliffnotes:

    -Kevin Kulek wants in on the "indy pin" scene, but instead of charging a ton like John, he says he's going to build 250 Predator pinballs for $4750.

    -He has a playable proto that he brings around to shows, giving people the confidence he can get it done. He claims he got the license from Fox.

    -After a few years, all mentions of Predator vanish from his website. They game keeps getting delayed, Kevin doesn't give anyone real answers. This is where some suspect there's something wrong.

    -Predator hasnt shipped yet, but they announce game #2 at California Extreme: "Experts of Dangerous" with the Myth Busters guys. Game looks like absolute shit and the art is instantly mocked. We don't hear much about this new game after that.

    -Some people do some digging, get in touch with Fox...turns out he NEVER HAD THE LICENSE. The lie is exposed.

    -People ask for refunds, Kevin claims he will....then he doesn't and vanishes.

    -He's currently in a lawsuit where it looks like he's F*CKED.

    #60 3 years ago
    Quoted from Rarehero:

    Jpop Cliffnotes:
    -Jpop says: I'm going to make 16 games called "Magic Girl", send me $16,000 to secure one! He has no pictures, no concepts, no way to code/animate/manufacture. He makes everyone sign an NDA. While this is expensive per game, there's NO WAY this makes financial sense to produce and manufacture a title. However, because of his B/W games, he has a cult-like status...and cult leaders can trick people into following them.
    -When it's clear he can't afford to make Magic Girl, he announces "I'm going to make Ben Heck's Zombie Adventure Land!" I'm going to make 125 of them for $10,000. Send me money and sign an NDA! He hasn't shown even a flipable whitewood for MG yet. It's clear this is a scheme...he needs money to finish the first game. People ignore that...the cult leader's influence is strong. People send him money for game #2. Eventually the name changes to Retro Atomic Zombie Adventure Land.
    -The pyramid scheme continues...he announces game #3, Alice in Wonderland before he still has shown ANYTHING for the first 2. PEOPLE SEND HIM MONEY!!!! Fool me once, twice...three times....
    -At Chicago Expo 2014, Dutch brings 3 fully playable Lebowski prototypes out of nowhere...and John brings and EMPTY CABINET to show off. This is when the wheels come off and the cult leader loses his grip...people start to come to their sense, demand answers, demand refunds, John hides out in his office/studio that people have been paying for....bullshit bullshit bullshit, lawsuits...and here we are.
    -There's a lawsuit, but somehow he used his culty culty magic on some newbs to start a new business called "American Pinball". He designs a game for them in exchange for their help building Magic Girl. People find out this company is helping him and are livid.
    -AP claims that they've built and are going to ship Magic Girl...but other than that now have nothing to do with John...we'll see...the saga continues.
    Skit-B Cliffnotes:
    -Kevin Kulek wants in on the "indy pin" scene, but instead of charging a ton like John, he says he's going to build 250 Predator pinballs for $4750.
    -He has a playable proto that he brings around to shows, giving people the confidence he can get it done. He claims he got the license from Fox.
    -After a few years, all mentions of Predator vanish from his website. They game keeps getting delayed, Kevin doesn't give anyone real answers. This is where some suspect there's something wrong.
    -Predator hasnt shipped yet, but they announce game #2 at California Extreme: "Experts of Dangerous" with the Myth Busters guys. Game looks like absolute shit and the art is instantly mocked. We don't hear much about this new game after that.
    -Some people do some digging, get in touch with Fox...turns out he NEVER HAD THE LICENSE. The lie is exposed.
    -People ask for refunds, Kevin claims he will....then he doesn't and vanishes.
    -He's currently in a lawsuit where it looks like he's F*CKED.

    Great synopsis. Don't forget the cult-like status that Shit-B achieved too. Anyone that didn't have praise for Kevin was berated and called a troll.

    #61 3 years ago

    My take so far on this is don't trust anyone. I'm starting to have my doubts about Stern's recent antics as well. Several games have been
    collecting dust because the code is incomplete. However, they move on making more titles with unreleased code and people are buying
    them. Recent playfield issues with Ghost Busters and let's not even go to Batman 66 a huge flop fest. I don't think anyone should buy
    anything any longer unless the machines are complete. Code should be polished and complete. Pay after you play. This hobby was fun when games were completely finished and consumer loyalty there. Well, loyalty is overrated when games are released incomplete, you have to beg for codes to be completed and the quality of the machines is sub par. No company is exhibiting loyalty to their customers except for
    Jersey Jack, Spooky Pinball and Heihgway these days.

    #62 3 years ago
    Quoted from BillySastard:

    Great synopsis. Don't forget the cult-like status that Shit-B achieved too. Anyone that didn't have praise for Kevin was berated and called a troll.

    Wasn't that pretty much just Whysnow, though? ...but yeah, there were sycophants that didn't snap out of it until way down the line.

    When I talk about John being a cult leader...I'm absolutely serious. Because of Theatre of Magic, Cirqus Voltaire and Tales of the Arabian Nights - he had this mystical magical aura about him amongst pinball collectors. Since he was the only one not working for the new pinball companies, when he announced he was going to do this...it was like Jeebus Christ was returning from Pinball Heaven. People were so overwhelmed by the "HOLY SHIT" factor, they didn't bother to look at the facts. Each time he announced a new game, it was more and more obvious that it was a scam...but cult leaders are very convincing and charismatic...he was able to fool people, just like polygamist cult leaders convince their members to stay...just like Scientology's leader convinces people to stay. Unlike those cults, John's was destined to fall apart, as he had no way to keep the mystique of the story alive without the "magical trinket" to keep it alive.

    Kevin was never a cult leader...he was "one of us" and showed us the game he was making. So there was some logical and tangible proof to go by in his situation.

    #63 3 years ago
    Quoted from Rarehero:

    Wasn't that pretty much just Whysnow, though? ...but yeah, there were sycophants that didn't snap out of it until way down the line

    There were more, Whysnow was just the loudest. I was in on the original 250 and I liked it when guys started questioning things about Predator and hated when the defenders stepped in to defend Kevin. I got out when they changed the pricing structure. I got my deposit back and bought an IMVE with my Predator money. Best pinball decision I ever made.

    #64 3 years ago
    Quoted from benheck:

    JPOP: Was never paid a cent, nor received any promises of what I'd make on the Zombie game. Never had a contract either! Insane. But I learned a lot from John, even if he didn't practice what he preached. Glad I got pushed out early.
    Predator: Think we could have sold another 50 AMH had this thing not sucked money off the market. People gave money to a dumb con man redneck for his brick fest game instead of someone with my background. Proves that THEME (or fake license) is all that matters.

    My caveat: I've met you in person and you're a really good dude. But, some things deserve clarification...

    JPOP: The combo of you (modern tech guy, local, passionate) and JPOP (designed classic games in past, local) sold me on joining the BHZA. It was also cool to see the option "build it in your house with you" - I passed on that as it seemed awkward. I watched a bit of the streaming workshop sessions with you two. Started to get worried at progress. You bailed but never really said why - creative differences inferred. RAZA now instead of BHZA. Went to JPOP studio, saw all these other projects in some development state nothing close to being done. Refund opportunity too late.

    Not blaming you for my poor decision to pre-order BHZA or RAZA, but why no "Hey everyone, my name is coming off because JPOP will never finish this - I don't want to be associated any longer. Just sharing my opinion." Your position came out after JPOP shit fest hit the fan and lawsuits filed. TBL guys had an "issue", at least Barry (edit: Phil) came out and said here's why I'm out. Keep me honest if my recollection of the facts is incorrect.

    Predator: "People gave money to a dumb con man redneck for his brick fest game instead of someone with my background." A little re-writing history. Before AMH you built Bill Paxson pinball. Kevin built Sonic. Both part of the pinball community - one of us. That's how pre-order people viewed it at the time. Both had a game on display at Expos people could mess around with. But, rolling back the hot tub time machine everyone was in the hype and wanted to support all you guys who made one offs. Now, we're more educated. Ben delivers, Kevin....well there's a whole thread for that.

    No ill will intended. Just interesting how history is interpreted.

    #65 3 years ago
    Quoted from MrBally:

    C'mon, do you really believe they will show up?

    That's what I'm wondering. if so, someone please get it all on video.

    I'm thinking that ap will show and any questions about mg will get the ask john response.

    dutch, no show is what I'm betting.

    #66 3 years ago
    Quoted from BillySastard:

    Great synopsis. Don't forget the cult-like status that Shit-B achieved too. Anyone that didn't have praise for Kevin was berated and called a troll.

    He even got donations from Pinside to get things rolling.

    #67 3 years ago
    Quoted from Rarehero:

    When I talk about John being a cult leader...I'm absolutely serious. Because of Theatre of Magic, Cirqus Voltaire and Tales of the Arabian Nights - he had this mystical magical aura about him amongst pinball collectors.

    Even after all of the shit that he has done, there are people that still view him this way. Shocking to me.

    #68 3 years ago
    Quoted from badbilly27:

    TBL guys had an "issue", at least Barry came out and said here's why I'm out. Keep me honest if my recollection of the facts is incorrect.

    Minor correction: Phil - not Barry. Barry and Jaap, who were at Expo 2014 along with Phil (who did most of the talking at Dutch Pinball's presentation), are still running DP. Jaap will supposedly be at TPF in March.

    #69 3 years ago
    Quoted from badbilly27:

    Not blaming you for my poor decision to pre-order BHZA or RAZA, but why no "Hey everyone, my name is coming off because JPOP will never finish this - I don't want to be associated any longer. Just sharing my opinion." Your position came out after JPOP shit fest hit the fan and lawsuits filed. TBL guys had an "issue", at least Barry came out and said here's why I'm out. Keep me honest if my recollection of the facts is incorrect.

    I can answer that one for Ben...

    JPop had one thing, lawyers. If Ben would have said those things then he would have faced accusations of tortious business interference. People wouldn't have believed him anyway and said it was sour grapes since he worked for a competitor, and it would have hurt Spooky.

    He didn't owe anyone that explanation, it would have only hurt him if he gave it then. My personal view anyway.

    #70 3 years ago
    Quoted from TigerLaw:

    JPop had one thing, lawyers. If Ben would have said those things then he would have faced accusations of tortious business interference. People wouldn't have believed him anyway and said it was sour grapes since he worked for a competitor.
    He didn't owe anyone that explanation. My personal view anyway

    Fair point. I understand how the legal angle could have played a role. Nonetheless, when a game has your name on the original model that was being pre-sold and you bail, I'm sure legal advice could have been available by the community to help find a way to warn risks are heightened based on first hand knowledge. Maybe if his name wasn't on it I get your POV. But, I feel the same way on SkitB's original partner too. Just my personal view on accountability. If you're involved in a project and something ethically could be remiss, just excusing yourself from the situation is a step in the right direction, but not enough.

    -2
    #71 3 years ago
    Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

    Even after all of the shit that he has done, there are people that still view him this way. Shocking to me.

    Consider that most of us only know Jpop via his games, and not necessarily his deeds. The guy made good games, full stop. That's why people like Rarehero sent him $12k or more sight unseen to make them a boutique pin.

    It's disingenuous as all hell to be like "JPOOP IS A CULT LEADER" when they were totally drinking their kool aid freely just a few years ago.

    #72 3 years ago
    Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

    Even after all of the shit that he has done, there are people that still view him this way. Shocking to me.

    Not shocking. His last games from WMS are great. Him being a fraud doesn't change a thing about the quality of the previous games he helped design at WMS.

    You can disagree that you have never liked CV, TOM or TOTAN but the present doesn't change the past.

    Marc

    #73 3 years ago

    I learned my lesson from the original Medieval Madness remake from Australia. Seems all future investment type pinball machines followed the same model - tease with pictures and vague timelines to keep "investors" in. I didn't want to be an "investor", I wanted to be a consumer. I was able to get my money out and buy an original MM.

    Lesson: Never put money into a pinball company that is building a company as well as a pinball machine. Your money can turn into an investment versus a purchase.

    I learned my lesson of NIB from my XMLE from Stern. Waiting and hoping for software updates was terrible. Yes, they finally came through, but there was no guarantee. The wait between software updates sucked as it could have gone either way.

    Lesson: HUO > NIB

    #74 3 years ago
    Quoted from pintechev:

    His last games from WMS are great.

    One of the things that did not really become well known until after things started to crash, was how few of those games he actually completed on his own. Old WMS guys have since reported that in most cases others had to step in to get the games across the finish line. John is a total right brain guy, he is innovative and creative, and is never satisfied that it is the way he wants it, thus the reason he can't finish anything. In addition, his inability to let others help him leaves him stuck in that mode. If he had gotten a left brain guy help him run it as a business (and many offered), to understand how to get things done on time, things probably would have been very different. John did not go into this to screw people, he went into this with a dream and a vision, he just refused to accept the realities of what it takes to succeed as a business. And yes, he clearly has the ability to get folks excited about his vision, to get them to look past the realities that should be staring them in the face. I guess that is an attribute of a cult leader, regardless, he was effective in getting folks to part with their cash. People believed what they wanted to believe, and disregarded the rest, and for many it was an expensive mistake to do so.

    Hopefully some day John will find a way to get RAZA and AIW completed, but as a betting man, I would not put my money on it, no matter what kind of odds someone may offer.

    16
    #75 3 years ago

    BadBilly: As I've explained many times:

    1) I never asked to be on a game, John was just trying to flatter me (probably just to use my board sets)
    2) I had no input on the game, my ideas hit a Teflon wall and slid off. "But Ben, nobody wants violence in pinball!" John said... of his GAME ABOUT ZOMBIES.
    3) There was never a financial contract for me to breach, but there WAS an NDA. I could walk away... silently.
    4) John worked at a pace that would embarrass those sloths from Zootopia.
    5) The insane idea of "build games in your home" was sprung on me during a MGC panel. I thought "WTF!???"

    Spooky gave me a chance to make MY game and see tangible results of my hard work. They also said "we'll pay you X per game" at the start which was a great motivator!

    Had I stuck around with Zidware we'd be at the same result we are now because I had no agency over what happened. Worse, Spooky (who's already shipped more pins than all other boutiques combined) might not have gotten off the ground.

    #76 3 years ago
    Quoted from jimjim66:

    I learned my lesson of NIB from my XMLE from Stern. Waiting and hoping for software updates was terrible. Yes, they finally came through, but there was no guarantee. The wait between software updates sucked as it could have gone either way.

    I also learned about buying (pre-order) from XMLE.

    This game was coming on the heals of AcDc LE and after Tron which was well regarded. However like Tron there was to be no premium version and I thought that if I didn't buy it immediately that I would miss out on the opportunity.

    I got fed a line of BS from the dealers who said they were in scarce supply (later come to find out that there were an excess of NIB games to be had 1-2 years after). I don't know if the dealer outright lied or if Stern manipulated the distribution to make it seem like there would be a shortage. Anyway once the games were sold and as there was no premium to push either, Stern could give a flying fuck all if the code was ever done.

    I lost $2000 on XMLE, not saying I expected to make money but it was a dud much like Avengers and WWE LE. I am not saying it was garbage, but it was (IMO) severely let down on code.

    I learned a few things after XMLE, was able to buy Tron (remake) and IMVE and STLE all of which I find outstanding, so my batting average is ok. I was able to pick up some pre-owned gems like Met and TWD pro as well as AcDc premium that made me realize that it's no shame to wait and see how the game turns out.

    I would not fall for buying any more Stern pins until the code is done. I feel sorry for BM66 SLE or LE owners since they have bought something at an exorbitant price that will sink like a stone, but you can't say they weren't warned.

    #77 3 years ago
    Quoted from benheck:

    1) I never asked to be on a game, John was just trying to flatter me (probably just to use my board sets)

    But being a smart person as you are, you can appreciate when your name is on something potential buyers are in because of your affiliation as well. While never asked, could have demanded to have your name/likeness pulled off. I don't fault you, my ego would have been at attention as well. Just sayin.

    Quoted from benheck:

    2) I had no input on the game, my ideas hit a Teflon wall and slid off. "But Ben, nobody wants violence in pinball!" John said... of his GAME ABOUT ZOMBIES.

    That sucks. I get why you left, too bad we didn't learn of this sooner. Big red flag.

    Quoted from benheck:

    3) There was never a financial contract for me to breach, but there WAS an NDA. I could walk away... silently.

    I get that the NDA was likely what kept you silent on sharing.

    Quoted from benheck:

    Spooky gave me a chance to make MY game and see tangible results of my hard work. They also said "we'll pay you X per game" at the start which was a great motivator!

    All rooting for Spooky to one day ramp up and evolve games. Right move to join Spooky team and realize your dream. I respect that.

    #78 3 years ago
    Quoted from denmark71:

    I was in with an early preorder for Predator. I was on that ride for a while but opted out and got a refund- luckily before the whole thing imploded. I'd still preorder other games as long as it was through a reputable distributor.

    Cointaker was the distro for Jpop's games and aren't refunding money they took as deposits so pre-ordering from a reputable distro probably still isn't a good plan.

    #79 3 years ago
    Quoted from badbilly27:

    But being a smart person as you are, you can appreciate when your name is on something potential buyers are in because of your affiliation as well. While never asked, could have demanded to have your name/likeness pulled off. I don't fault you, my ego would have been at attention as well. Just sayin.

    A great point. But thanks to John being a control freak, customers weren't getting any value from my association with this game.

    #80 3 years ago

    The NDA was one of the biggest BS smokescreens ever.

    Like Tiger said, he was smart enough to have legal on his side and pull off that big time bluff

    #81 3 years ago

    From my armchair quarterback position, I see Ben leaving JPOP in the dust was a GREAT THING for our hobby/business. Let's count our blessings where they can be found. So Ben, where's the Bible Adventureland pin you been working on?

    12
    #82 3 years ago

    Have to finish my current game first. I hear when you work on too many projects at once it doesn't go well...

    #83 3 years ago

    I got off easier than most. I only pre ordered woz. It was a three year journey and I did get my game. But that was the lesson for me, no more pre-order. I feel so bad for the others that are much less fortunate.

    The lesson I learned is not to get tied up in the pre order hype. If a game comes out and it is awesome I will pay the premium from a flipper because the odds are most games will not have an extreme price increase. I will take my chances of finding one, than taking my chances before the game is ever built.

    #84 3 years ago
    Quoted from rai:

    I also got out of MMr because Rick was giving me some attitude and I don't feel that's the way to treat a paying customer so I dropped out of MMr and got STLE instead.

    Thank god Pinside is on the hate-Rick bandwagon (for good reason) or those 10 upvotes would be downvotes and people would be calling you a bitch for not taking the shaft like it's some kind of right of passage

    Good for you. I can get by the supermarket lady not wishing me a nice day & the godawful DMV hellhole just fine, but when you're paying thousands upon thousands (or even hundreds) you shouldn't be treated like shit. Enough said. But that's just my opinion. (Nor am I saying they should hand you the coin door keys on a silver platter with a suit on with a smile, just have some human decency - but on second thought at that price, maybe they should!)

    #85 3 years ago
    Quoted from Otaku:

    Thank god Pinside is on the hate-Rick bandwagon (for good reason) or those 10 upvotes would be downvotes and people would be calling you a bitch for not taking the shaft like it's some kind of right of passage
    Good for you. I can get by the supermarket lady not wishing me a nice day & the godawful DMV hellhole just fine, but when you're paying thousands upon thousands (or even hundreds) you shouldn't be treated like shit. Enough said. But that's just my opinion. (Nor am I saying they should hand you the coin door keys on a silver platter with a suit on with a smile, just have some human decency - but on second thought at that price, maybe they should!)

    I sent Rick a PM asking for clarification about what was included on the LE since he said there would be other features added.

    He sent me a reply that said if I was on the fence, I should drop out because there were other people who would take my spot.
    IMG_2858 (resized).JPG

    #86 3 years ago

    I did my part to help document the journey of Zidware with this interview though...

    #87 3 years ago
    Quoted from benheck:

    BadBilly: As I've explained many times:
    Spooky (who's already shipped more pins than all other boutiques combined).

    Hence my coining Spooky to be the Godzilla of boutique pinball in this interview...

    #88 3 years ago

    How were you affected?

    I don't have a Predator pinball machine but I'm hoping Heighway fixes that in the near future.

    #89 3 years ago
    Quoted from rai:

    I should drop out because there were other people who would take my spot.

    He probably got that line from his wife

    #90 3 years ago

    I've been lucky - I was seriously considering getting into the Predator pre order, but being a cheapskate preventing me from buying in. I feel bad for those affected and hope it resolves in the end. After all the crap.... I am nevering handing out $$ until machines have been in production and are shipping to customers promptly. I am not interested in collector's items, just fun playing games.

    #91 3 years ago

    Stern has been a safe haven, but is hit or miss.

    For every Met, Tron or Twd you'd get an Avengers, WWE or BM66 situation.

    Even the great Stern pins could be poor for 1-2 years that's no bargain.

    #92 3 years ago
    Quoted from rai:

    For every Met, Tron or Twd you'd get an Avengers, WWE or BM66 situation.

    Nothing wrong with Batman situation I can see. They built the machine and shipped it out before the programmer barely got started on it. Not a problem as it is shaping up to be an all time classic. And those that bought one didn't have to wait very long to get it or wonder if they would ever get theirs.

    #93 3 years ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    I didn't lose financially.
    The hobby took a big financial loss. Money that could have gone to Spooky, Jersey Jack, and Stern.
    And a lot of people work hard to help others. Keep their games going. Make pinball more enjoyable for them.
    This soured a lot of people. Made pinball something less. Some may have even left pinball for other things to do.
    We all were effected. We all lost something.
    LTG : (

    Well said Lloyd, I couldn't have said it better. And I will add, widespread, rampant greed is what is really killing the industry as a whole. First on the part of the manufacturers (or would-be manufacturers) that heard about games trading in the used market for 5 figures and a lot of them thought "I'd like a piece of that lucrative pie!". And in the same vein, us end buyers so willing to fork over huge deposits to people that have absolutely not earned that trust, all in quest that we might end up with something in the end that nobody else (or very few others) have because of our willingness to bargain on these hacks.

    I realize the days of NIB games being sold for $3200 and actually ready to ship when they are announced is an old-fashioned idea. But we really do need to get back to something reasonable for this industry to survive. At least for the people that I know, I'm not personally friends with a lot of folks buying $15k Batman games...

    #94 3 years ago
    Quoted from rai:

    I sent Rick a PM asking for clarification about what was included on the LE since he said there would be other features added.
    He sent me a reply that said if I was on the fence, I should drop out because there were other people who would take my spot.

    I would guess when he sent that reply to you he was thinking in his head how great of a sales tactic he was using.

    #95 3 years ago
    Quoted from benheck:

    Have to finish my current game first.

    Sad news today that Bill Paxson has passed away. May need to swap current game and mass-produce the Bill Paxson title. Or, your one-off is now worth $1M dollars!

    dr.-evil-million-dollar-term-policy-300x241 (resized).jpg

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