Predator
Skit-B Pinball, 2013You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider robt.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.
This topic is closed.
Quoted from SilverBallz:this to all those new companies on the horizon, including DP and TBL. anyone group of guys can sit around and make one game and get people excited but taking it to the next level is an enormous and expensive task.
This post is spot on accurate.
Actual production is the biggest hurdle by far. We saw how that went with JJP. Things will be no easier for DP and certainly not for the boutiques.
Quoted from lllvjr:Did the group really wait three years to check if skit b had the preditor license? Or need to have it?
I was thinking the same thing. They definitely *need* to have it, assuming that they want to sell them legally.
Quoted from RyThom:"Quick Notes" 1 and 3 on skitbpinball.com sounds like covering for a lack of a license, in place just in case they missed any traces of Predator on the site:
1. Absolutely none of the items featured on this site or any of its affiliates are for commercial sale or use unless explicitly stated otherwise.
3. All images and likenesses used on this site are and remain copyrights of their respective owners.
Even more disconcerting than that language is the fact that there is zero mention of the word "Predator" anywhere on their webpage. Or Facebook. Or Twitter account.
Did Predator appear on their webpage before?
If so, speculation will begin that they in fact do not own the license, and received a C&D and had to take any references to Predator Pinball down from the site.
It would be nice if Kevin could come on here an nip this in the bud asap.
Quoted from frolic:Ok, that is very odd.
Yep. Especially considering this:
Quoted from DCFAN:Yes sir, it did (see wayback machine):
http://web.archive.org/web/20130414092155/http://www.skitbpinball.com/
Not good.
I realize that Predator is sold out so technically there's no real reason to "market" the pin for sale. But to not list the one pin that you've done anywhere on your website?
That's a head scratcher, and makes no sense.
Quoted from DCFAN:With what theme/license?
It was his first post in this thread. My guess is that he didn't even read the stuff about the potential license issue.
Quoted from flynnibus:You mean the topic that is pure speculation driven only by an echo chamber trying to make it an issue?
Driven entirely by commentary on what they chose to put on their website?
And people wonder why this place has a rep...
Seriously?
head-in-sand.jpgNot only does "Predator" not appear anywhere on the Skit-B website, Facebook account, or Twitter account, it also looks like they have removed their Predator videos from YouTube.
Here is a post from the Predator update thread posted by moderator TheDudeAbides, which was a copy and paste from a Skit-B email, which included a link to a Predator game play video. That video has been removed:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/predator-updates#post-1713809
And here is Skit-B's YouTube channel, which have no videos or references to Predator at all:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQS9TJrHPKSmotfplwP3Zlg
I wish the title of this thread was something like "Does Skit-B Have the Predator License" as I think there would be fewer arguments and people upset because of the word "scam". It may not be a scam, but there is obviously something going on that really needs to be explained.
You don't just remove all referenced to Predator Pinball from your own website, and take down all of your YouTube videos if everything is running according to plan.
Also from the link I posted above which included an interview with Kevin:
" Why isn't Predator anywhere on your website?
Our website admittedly has been on the backburner for quite some time, and could definitely use some updating. The sad truth is that any time I personally take to mess with the site is time I could be spending on the games, and paying a person to work on the site would feel wasteful at this exact moment. We are expecting a short downtime after the majority of parts are sorted, so hopefully I'll be able to get into it a bit at that time. "
Quoted from fastpinball:This is the first post in this thread that warrants a serious read by everyone following along. Again, not my place, but I am familiar with common licensing terms, and I am familiar with this case specifically. Thank you for contributing something of significance to this discussion!
Aaron
FAST Pinball
If in fact that is the case, then why didn't Kevin just say that that's the case when he gave his interview that I quoted above? Instead of just saying he's behind on maintaining their website. Especially when the website had Predator pinball on it before, and it was removed?
Quoted from rai:Well one things for sure, this thread is taking a lot of heat off of Jpop.
I don't think so.
If anything, both examples are going to give more people serious pause before laying down cash on pre-orders from unproven companies.
Quoted from badbilly27:I'm in on RAZA and Predator (For Jammer #9, build ~19) and bought a WOZ. I don't think I will ever go in on a preorder again based on my experience with all. I support what they are doing and wish them success. But will do so in the future without my preorder deposits. If we all spoke with our money and said enough with preorders maybe then all the boutiques would listen better.
It's a difficult situation. If people like you didn't put money down on a game and company like JJP, and take a risk, that game (and company) probably wouldn't have made it.
Same with the pins being made by people like JPop etc. WOOLY will not be made if they don't get 100 preorders.
Some companies have more risk involved than others. People have to be comfortable with the level of risk, and the amount of delays that are a given, before getting involved in a preorder.
Quoted from Aurich:Tell you what, I have a ton of faith in Dutch Pinball. Hope I never have to eat those words! But they're doing everything right so far compared to everyone else.
Like I said in my post above, some companies have less risk than others. I think DP risk is similar to that of JJP with WOZ. I.e, not super risky.
Quoted from Aurich:If I'm waiting for my TBL in 3 years I'm going to cry.
Well TBL was basically announced a year ago, so you've already got 1 year down. Two to go. 
Quoted from underlord:How's Alien going Rob?
I *hope* it's going great!
Not in on that preorder. Wanted to. Just can't do it.
Quoted from Whysnow:This is pretty much the stupidest thread on all of pinside and that is saying a lot.
I can hardly believe how much completely made up crap is in here!
For all those that are feeding and saying these false statements, what are you going to do when the game is delivered?
That's pretty much one of the biggest "dodges" I've ever seen on Pinside, and that's saying a lot!
Please do not simply dismiss the facts that have been discussed in this thread. You don't mention *any* of these facts in your post. Instead you choose to stick your head in the sand and call the entire thread "pretty much the stupidest thread on all of pinside".
You are proof positive that The Stockholm Syndrome is alive and well.
Here are the facts that you have not mentioned or addressed:
1. Any mention of "Predator" the pinball machine, movie, or it's status have been completely removed from the Skit-B website, although it used to be there.
2. The word "Predator" does not appear anywhere on Skit-B's Facebook page. Zero discussion regarding the progress etc.
3. No mention of "Predator" on their Twitter account.
4. ALL of their YouTube videos of Predator have been completely removed from their YouTube account.
5. The owner of Skit-B has gone silent on the above issues (and has not posted on Pinside for more than 3 months)
6. There is no proof that Skit-B currently has the license for Predator.
7. The OP has tried to contact Skit-B and has asked for a refund of his money. He has received no response.
And you come in and say that despite the above facts, that this is "pretty much the stupidest thread on all of pinside".
Ignoring the facts instead of addressing them like you are isn't doing anyone any favors Hilton.
Quoted from Whysnow:1. - 5. Only need 1 answer. There is no obligation for SkitB to have anything posted in any public space. Kevin and team were at Expo last week and were anything but silent. I am in the first games being built, saw evidence of it, and he answered every question I have. Yes, they fail at online communication. However, I had all questions answered in person 1 week ago and was given all the proof I need. I have no desire to share any of this publically as it was a private conversation between me (an owner in the first batch) and Kevin. Suffice to say, games are actively being built and I see no need for any publicly shared information about this other than to dispell a bunch of shit talkers that are wasting more time attempting to distract from the things that are actually worthwhile that they are doing.
Wow.
Just....wow.
In all seriousness, I just don't even know where to start with a response like this. It's actually hard to believe what I'm reading.
Quoted from Whysnow:I agree that they need to communicate but see no need for them to do it publically.
Yes, that's a great way to do business!
Take down any and all references to the only pinball machine that you have built so nobody can see it. Don't answer any questions publicly about it's current status. Don't even attempt to alleviate current concerns publically. This will really get people excited and wanting to buy their next pin!
Quoted from Whysnow:I never claimed it was a great way to do business.
Then you are just making excuses.
How about some actual answers instead?
Does Skit-B currently have the full license to Predator and to use Arnold's likeness on the pin or not?
Quoted from Whysnow:To me, the fact that the game is being built and was just at Expo last week points to the liscence thing being a non-issue and all made up?
All made up? Really?
It may very well be speculation, but the speculation is based on the numerous facts that have been pointed out in this thread repeatedly. I.e., you simply do not actively remove all mentions of Predator on your website, social media, and remove your YouTube videos for no reason.
Please read the above paragraph again.
Saying things are just being made up isn't helping anyone, and it seems like you are trying to convince yourself more than anyone else.
The proto Predator being at Expo isn't proof of a license. Anyone can make their own pin using any theme/artwork that they want, even without a license, and bring it to a Pinball gathering as long as they are not selling it or making money on it.
Post edited by RobT: added "not" in front of "selling"
Quoted from inhomearcades:I believe they may have the license, however they may be running into issues portraying what they want. Everything has to be approved from the studio, and something may have planned or even built such as a playfield and now the studio will not allow it. That would seem much more likely than not having the license at all.
That's a good point.
Heighway Pinball has the rights to Alien. But they can't show any artwork yet because the license holder hasn't signed off on it.
Quoted from Jared:Prove that it's not.
FACT: Requests for refund have gone unanswered.
FACT: No-one has received their game.
FACT: There are no published photos of games being made in bulk.
FACT: The same prototype game has gone to events for years now.
FACT: All mentions, photos and information about the game has been removed from their site.
FACT: Videos that were uploaded by skit-b to youtube were later removed for unknown reasons.
FACT: Farsight paid $60,000+ for license fees related to using the likeness of Arnold in a pinball.
FACT: Licenses expire after a certain amount of time.
FACT: Communication from Skit-B on pinside, despite getting $750,000 from pinside members, is non existent.
FACT: In the past lack of Predator info on website was blamed on lack of time for such updates.
FACT: When a company issues a C&D letter they ask that all logos, photos and video of their property be removed the web.
FACT: You cannot mass produce a Predator Pinball with Arnold Schwarzenegger on the playfield and DMD without a license agreement from 20th Century Fox.
Now...
I am not saying Skit-B and Predator are a scam.
I am saying the facts don't look good when you look at them.
***
Here's to hoping this ends well for all parties.
Hilton doesn't care about the facts. But he will now accuse you of having an "agenda" for raising these issues.
He will also claim that you have no right to know answers to any of those questions because you aren't an owner of Predator.
Quoted from edwinpblue:So Oldpinster and CraZ4pin both had their accounts frozen. Were the rumors true that he had a duplicate account?!? What is it with the Flint, MI area and people doing that? That's twice!
If that's true I definitely owe Alex an apology!
Quoted from Whysnow:You have ZERO proof of SkitB getting a C&D letter and stating such as fact leaves no legal grey area for you to operate. You are very clearly stating a fact that you have no proof of.
You clearly lack reading comprehension skills.
He NEVER said that SkitB received a C&D letter. Ever.
Quoted from Whysnow:Keep it up and I can promise you that you will not like the outcome.
GTFO with this crap.
Quoted from Whysnow:Come on Rob... Pretty obvious exactly what he is saying and it is slanderous without a doubt.
Also, if he keeps it up I would not be surprised if his loud mouth writes a few checks his ass can't cash. I don't think that SkitB is the type but with the outright lies and Jared's attempt to do harm with false accusations it would be a pretty easy case.
LOL
You have 3 attorneys posting in this thread. I don't think any of us think Jared has anything to worry about.
Thanks for the free legal advice though. It's worth the price paid.
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:He sent me an email stating everything is going as planned, he doesnt owe an explanation to pinside on why he pulled the videos. The game is in production and if you don't believe that then you likely won't believe any explanation he would post on pinside. So does it really matter if he explains to non-customers on his reasoning for the video and Predator disappearance? As I stated he told me he would be sending an explanation to "customers" shortly. As I said before I'll start to worry if my game misses the date quoted.
What a joke.
Pretty much anyone on Pinside is a potential customer. I guess he doesn't care if anyone buys their next pin?
Way to kick your audience in the nuts. The same audience/platform that he used to sell the pin to.
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:As I said the owing an explanation was my opinion and not a quote from Skit-B. IMO it doesnt matter if you are a potential customer or not. If you didnt buy Predator why does he need to explain to you why he pulled the videos, website etc? Right now even if Kevin came here and explained the situation, if you or anyone else doesnt trust him then all they are is empty words, delivering the game will be the only explanation that will matter on pinside, that I'm certain of.
He needs to explain it to the same community that he sold the pin to in my opinion.
Pretty simple really.
Quoted from Jared:Sending me a PM calling me a "Factass" and writing a small novel going off on me... you are mental. Seriously. Mental. This whole thread is crawling with proof.
That's pretty weak sauce right there Hilton.
Pathetic, really.
Either way, now that the OP has got his refund, maybe people can concentrate on the other important issues raised in this thread?
Namely, does Skit-B have the license for Predator and to use Arnold's likeness on it?
Obviously this question isn't going to be answered by any of us here. Skit-B seems to have taken the position that they will not post on the internets biggest pinball forum any longer (even though they had no problem using this forum to sell the game).
Sad.
Quoted from Whysnow:Better yet would be if a moderator did not fan the flames on what appears to be a completely unsubstantiated claim based on wild speculation because people don't see an online presence on SkitB website.
Why is it OK to make up completely preposterous claims but if you then phrase them as questions (regarless of the implications and intent by some to hurt a start up pinball company) it is all OK and even Pinside moderators are jumping in?
I would have no problem if you said the purple elephant is a lack of communication from SkitB online or via email, but when you are attempting to bait a response by continuing to spread factless rumors then that is the definition of trolling.
It isn't "wild" speculation when you look at the facts that have been pointed out repeatedly (including active removal of videos from YouTube and their own website).
Any reasonable person (you are excluded since you have shown your obvious over the top bias on this issue) would look at the facts presented in this thread and start to wonder if there are issues with the Predator license (including Arnold).
That's the question.
Add to that the fact that the maker of Predator, Skit-B, has been painfully silent on this issue, and that is adding more fuel to the fire than any single post made in this entire thread, resulting in the continued speculation.
The fact is, if there is no issue at all with the Predator license, it would be the easiest thing in the world for them to come here and set the record straight.
There is simply no excuse for their failure to do that. None.
You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider robt.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.
This topic is closed.
Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.
Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!
This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/predator-a-scam?tu=robt and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.
Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.
