Whysnow, I had a fun bet re Jpop and delivery this year. I'm already waving the white flag and sending RD his case of beer. I would caution you with going overboard here!

COMMUNICATION!

What irks me the most about these guys, any of them, all of them, is the attitude they take once money changes hands. Jpop had a very detailed and organized time line with features detailed etc., all necessary to get our $$$ up front. At least he has a "courtesy blog" despite a lack of a timeline and answers to simple questions until recently.

With Kevin and Skitb, everybody remembers how impressed we ALL were, what seems like yesterday but was years ago when Kevin was the new guy on the block and was answering detailed questions non stop, on these Pinside threads.

It made people optimistic that finally we had someone who would listen to the consumer, a "hobbyist" building a pin.

What's happened since, the only blackout UV mode with Predator is Kevin's silence. It's why I backed out. Congrats though to the other 250 and I hope it all ends well and you have a great pin!

To let people come on here and speculate, fill in the gaps, just like with Jpop, is STUPID!

Whether it's JJP with Smaug and past misrepresentations, Jpop with secrecy, Skitb with all of this BS, Stern with code and the collective pathetic nature of all of their presentations, DP excluded, it just blows me away that someone can't/won't take the lead here on marketing and selling a pinball machine the right way, from F ing start to finish!

Are you next DP? Let's hope not.

The lack of info and communication, the fact that Predator has been removed from the website, twitter, etc. I'm going to CONCLUDE that they don't have the license, prove everybody wrong, communicate. Seriously, wtf

Good luck everybody, as a guy that suffered through Woz and now with Jpop, I hope it all ends well!

Oh yeah! I've listened to a lot of "opinions" over the last several years with Woz and Jpop to a lesser degree, non pre order people, but the funny thing about Expo, it has seemed to bring the pinball community together a bit more, at least here on pinside.

Have an opinion, hell yeah, it helps everybody, and at the end of the day, maybe all of these guys will be a little more "accountable" and "truthful". After all, they are taking our $$$.

Stern is the only one that says here it is, buy it or don't. And yet if they keep up their coding BS and overpricing their LE's by comparison, it will be more of the "don't".

Thanks to DP and Heighway! Now everybody else, step up!

Hang in there Kevin. I just don't understand though "WHY" he wouldn't communicate on Pinside. He generated all of his orders on Pinside. He started out answering all of everybody's questions on Pinside. Why quit after taking all the deposits?

It's THE FORUM for pinball and the best place for a boutique guy to shine! I don't get it, maybe he doesn't ever want to make another pin. If that's the case then at least communicate with the 250 owners.

Why not? They raised all the $$$ on here "publicly". Answered every question initially "online".

Where is the "simple email"? Wtf, many of the "250 buyers" have questions, glad you are part of the secret NDA club with Kevin.

What a bunch of BS.

Uhhhh, that ain't happenin, not a F ing chance in hell with me now. That's why I along with many others are interested in what all these guys are doing and HOW they are doing it. That is why we read these forums and have an opinion. That is also gonna dictate how many of us spend our future $$$.

The lack of the simple and basic task of bookkeeping, if that is an issue, is not good, ie Jpop.

Answer this one Hilton, if you know for a fact that they are currently building Predators right now then how can there be any licensing issues unless they like throwing away expensive play fields? So I guess licensing is a green light

How many cabs have been printed for "production"

I was gonna say the same thing. Nothing is logical about any of this. But hey, maybe that is just par for the pinball course. I don't understand 80% of the shit any of them do

"become unsettling to some and has allowed this to lead to this fire which has been largely stoked on by naysayers that are not even in on the game and as far as I am concerned have zero reason to be entitled to ANY information.
I personally hope Kevin sends out an email to all owners in the near future and asks then to keep it private and not repost on the internet. I see no reason for any info to be provided to anyone that is not paid in for 3k+ at this point."

Wow. I'm gonna take my toys and go home. That's a pathetic attitude imo. If he really takes everything that personally, he won't last long

Let's hope his attitude isn't on the same lines of yours.

That said, despite what I see as a total lack of respect for the other 245 owners that know nothing, I hope it works out for you guys on Predator.

Last time I checked we consumers/pinsiders are all in the SAME boat!

We all deserve honesty and accountability from anybody that takes our $$$.

Expo changed things for the better and I hope we start working together instead of against each other.

Does Kevin have another job? How does he support himself over these last several years? Does he devote all of his working time and effort to building pinball machines? SkitB his sole source of income? What happened to his partner?

Could it also be that there is no way a boutique guy can build a pinball machine in a quantity of 250 for $4750 per pin? Is that too good to be true?

I agree with Lowepg, "scam" is not the right word, trying to drink from a firehose, more like it.....he does seem like a good guy with great intentions originally. I'm gonna say over and over, honesty and communication!

IP must be a non issue if he's building them right? Printed cabs and play fields aren't cheap.

I guess it will remain a mystery for now!

Not sure what other guys have to do but I'm literally on call 24/7 no matter where I'm at. It's just part of what I do for my clients and thankfully I have help. I've learned to live with never "unplugging". There is always an email or phone call to return. If I stop and ignore it or had nobody else to deal with issues or questions then I'd be done pretty fast.

Pinball and Pinside give me some escape from the non stop!

If he was peeved about everybody taking a dump on the #2 announcement (hmmm #2) maybe he should have picked a better theme. To not communicate for months is acting like a petulant child and you are feeding right into it.

Maybe he is just giving the middle finger to Pinside?

Please Hilton, can you just get us some real facts, there is no NDA. I'd defend Jared for free and counter sue for filing a frivolous lawsuit but its such a joke that I'm rotflmao

Trying not to beat a dead horse here but their "customers" are/is Pinside, people that were in, are in, and may be "in" in the future, to ignore that fact doesn't make it right.

I'm representing the interests of all of us downtrodden, abused and unloved Pinsiders that have been trampled upon repeatedly over and over again! Which includes the owners that don't want to speak up.

I got my $250 refund finally in August, no big deal, never sweated it. He did a few weeks after the "hard deadline" in June send an email asking if I was sure I wanted out. Huh?

Not at all, if you didn't respond you supposedly were out at the deadline, although not really. But then the $250 would be refunded. I think they are still spinning from trying to figure out who's in, who's out, who's paid and who still is owed $250, much less trying to build a pinball machine.

Any pictures of play field racks (or titty racks), cabs or pins in production? Jk (not really) NDA

Did you watch TWD last night Hilton, we are going to eat your leg next!

You mean we can't eat Hilton's leg?

<edit> No walking dead fans here? Wtf

Since we are in a "Predator" thread, maybe it would be appropriate to post vaginas?

See if we can match the Predator face with the vagina, closest one wins a new pin?

That's an interesting attitude to have. Considering he generated nearly 100% of sales on here. I wonder how Robin feels about that in light of the Pinside presentation at Expo.

I wonder how pre order campaigns like this will go in the future here on Pinside. I don't blame Robin for monetizing some of Pinside and benefits it bring to others, especially those selling to Pinsiders. Maybe that's not what he was talking about.

Well it doesn't really matter, I hope all you guys get your pins and are happy with them, one of the coolest themes ever. For me, however, this is one less vendor I have to worry about in the future.

It's funny, some of you same guys were doing the exact same thing with Woz for years and now it's TH. Pot meet kettle.

I defended and drank so much Woz kool aid my lips are permanently purple! I was wrong then with JJP and more recently with Jpop. Anybody asking for honesty and communication affects everybody here, like it or not.

The idea that if you are one of the "owners" and it's F everybody else and what they think is ridiculous. This attitude just perpetuates the BS that these guys get away with after they have our $$$.

When I was an owner, questions never got answered then like UL testing.

Keep burying your heads in the sand. We are on the same side as consumers. One day some of you might realize that.

It was sold on Pinside, it's talked about on Pinside, and you are going to get all sides. Get over it

I don't see it as a joke? Why? 100% of people fully paid up? Anybody that wants one will be able to get one. Ever see a FS thread asking somebody to "take over my spot". You want one, you'll be able to get one when and if they make it

You are cracking me up Hilton! You def are one of the best pumpers on Pinside, no doubt. The Wooly guy should give you a commission.

I like your passion though.....