(Topic ID: 107295)

Predator seemed like a scam --- but eventually happily resolved!


By JimWilks

5 years ago



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  • Latest reply 5 years ago by pmWolf
  • Topic is favorited by 9 Pinsiders

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#15 5 years ago
Quoted from crlush:

I received my deposit right away after I cancelled.

I did also...maybe 1 week but it came. That was Sept of 2013 though.

#24 5 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

hassellcastle> care to put any money where you slander?
I will make you a bet that Predator is real and I will be playing my game this year.

Where is the slander? Viewpoint/opinion yes. Slander? Hmmm, why say that?

#41 5 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

here he is trying to say they are taking the cash and have run away, not even making a product. That sounds like intent to damage a reputation to me???

I don't understand. I am the kind of guy that believes there are always two sides. Also, I believe in opposite extremes. Surely if this gathering place (Pinside) allows fanboy sunshine and rahs rahs (read any thread almost) then certainly it allows the opposite/opposing type post? That's how I read his post...not slander...just not rah rah Predator sunshine!

#91 5 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Bram Stoker's Draculas, of course!

Hahaha...good one!

#204 5 years ago

I just hope whatever way this goes that both opposing sides are mature enough to NOT play the, "I told you so" game! I mean if Kevin were to post tonight and include massive details and photos....the believers should respect the other side having concerns based on existing ( or non-existing) information at the time of posting here! We all have to draw conclusions in life, and sometimes you do not make friends when doing it. With the delays, secrecy of Predator ( remember the YouTube video teasing what was in the other room?), Predator advertising removed from site, Pinside posting/sharing info. decrease, delayed refunds, etc. it is no wonder concerns were voiced here!!!

On the flip side. I really hope this does not happen and likely will not. Should somehow things go down the tubes nobody should be saying, " I told you so"! To the folks that had their hard earned money in the project. It has to work both ways no matter what the final result is! Professional and friendly courtesy!

Just my 2 cents

#207 5 years ago
Quoted from limelime20:

Well, I would not say scam,..(not yet anyway). I would say he has ran into some type of license issue, or parts..
I can see whysnow calling Kev. now:
whysnow: Kev, you there?
Kev: <yawning> ..Hey, yea I'm here , what's up?
whysnow: wake up man, you still gonna get my game delivered to me by this year right?
Kev: this year.? when did I say that.? yea, well, I can if u still need it by then, i'm still waiting for things...
whysnow: what???? what things? look, I opened my big mouth on pinside, and challenged everyone to either put up or shut up, and the line is forming.!!!
Kev: well, I can't help that. I'm waiting on things, but then i'm ready to build.
whysnow: Listen, I need that machine by this year, or I could go broke.!!
Kev: <yawns>...uhm..,who are you again.??
whysnow: Dammit Kev., its me whysnow, the laughing stock of pinside now, I was one of the first to order your Predator machine.!!
Kev: Shhh.,, we cannot say that name at the moment....
We have a new code name for the machine : "Shasta"
whysnow: Holy Shasta.!! are you kidding me?? I may lose my pinball collection over this...and
someone has even bet for my house.!!
Kev: Look, <yawn> I think we can get "Shasta" done by end of year for you, but we will need your help in assembly, you a pinball mechanic? any tools you could bring?
whysnow: <Click>
Kev: <yawn> hello?

You raise a valid point. Is either party allowed to contact Skit b and possibly influence the result? Like say...." Kev...please move me up in the build order"? Or, " Kev....please move that guy down in the build order"

Gotta make you wonder....

#220 5 years ago

I was in way early and out about a year ago. Like I mentioned earlier my refund only took about a week. So after receiving it I basically stopped following the Predator threads. When I resumed recently (hoping to read feedback from owners with the actual pin at home) two things surprised me. 1st was the pin not shipping...I thought no biggie, almost every project anywhere gets hit with delays. The 2nd though..all mention of Predator gone from the website. I do not get this at all. There should be another years worth of info there since my absense visiting there. For Pete's sake, Duck Hunt now has tons of info and that was supposedly a fun side project while main focus was Predator.

Back when I was in I spoke to Kevin and his mother several times. Very exciting and honest appearing people! So the web site removal of Predator without any explanation totally surprises me!!! Does Kevin ever post here anymore? Anyone have the exact last day he posted here? A year ago it seemed like almost every day or every other day he was active here.

#326 5 years ago
Quoted from fastpinball:

This is the first post in this thread that warrants a serious read by everyone following along. Again, not my place, but I am familiar with common licensing terms, and I am familiar with this case specifically. Thank you for contributing something of significance to this discussion!
Aaron
FAST Pinball

First post worthy of reading? Hah, lol thanks for the laugh. Every post here is worthy of reading except those that insult the op, pinside or other members!!!?

#332 5 years ago
Quoted from jammer74:

Having Kevin's number,when I speak to him I can pass on your concern for your friends . Unfortunately without names or production number I can not . My point being, is that speculation is relevant on all accounts,including the fact that some information passed in this thread has no validity.
Your friends have Kevin's contact info,ask them for it.
The actual facts have been posted all over Predator threads since the inception. The license agreement is for 250 production units no more no less. It is a shame you have to filter through the nonsense to read it.
Based on statements from people who have spoken to Kevin personally,Production is not in delay. There is no hiding,the presence at the Pinball Expo and is proof of that.
Not one person has replied in this thread with information that they are on the list following my suggestion. So don't take this personal Hwawonyu,as my request went out to the entire thread.
The misinformation in this thread may cause uneasiness in those otherwise confident. I'm sure Kevin having to filter through 300+ emails every time a post or thread like this occurs. It is counter productive to all involved. Even more so when he addresses directly here. Repeated questions that have been answered multiple times in pinside threads as well as private correspondence flood his inbox. A vast significant amount from people not related to the project.
My suggestion is to those on the list , rest assured the Skit-B camp is fine ,your game is in production . Those that are not ,please represent yourself as such to not confuse people from the reality and current status.
I'm confident Kevin will be in touch with the 250 when the next mile marker is reached.
I'm pretty sure the 250 are also.

Actually you are mistaken. Originally it was less...200 to be exact. Also, something is not a fact simply because it was posted "...all over Predator threads...". For the license to be indeed fact, it must be known to exist without any uncertainty. People are concerned it may not be fact since red flags exist indicating what was thought to be fact may be in question at the least. I think the web site growing ten fold in size, while Predator material was removed, is causing that concern. Last thing. Confusing reality and current status? I think it is the non concerned parties confusing the concerned parties with unprovable comments. You yourself say, " My suggestion is to those on the list , rest assured the Skit-B camp is fine ,your game is in production ". How can you actually say all is fine like that? Its pure guesswork on your part unless you are privey to information others are not???

I really don't see why people can't post about concerns and why they have them without others judging and criticizing them!

#341 5 years ago
Quoted from CraZ4Pin:

I wonder who will eat the cost of all those skull toppers that have already been made too, hmmm.
You do raise some interesting points Kaneda. Now Im more curious how many parts they have already ordered and now cant return if this does turn out to be true. Ugh.

In my business (automotive) when a contract goes south usually it is a 20% cancelation fee on remaining (unproduced parts) plus purchase all parts already in the supply chain.

Can't anybody here call Kevin voice and tell him to ftp the Predator info back to the site if he has no time to post here on Pinside? Oh yeah, refund those two people also that requested it. Then life can be good again here

#342 5 years ago
Quoted from jammer74:

Never did I state people should not be able to post concerns. Quote me if I did.please.
The license exists with certainty or Kevin has the world or at least pinside fooled for years now .
As stated prior ,by another poster,possibly by licensing contract ,advertising may not be allowed at this point. As for first hand knowledge from Kevin , the amount of emails requesting to buy in ,outbid and push out the current preorder holders ,or those requesting to get on the waitlist was overwhelming. Flattering as it may be ,for that fact alone advertising a sold out product was pointless and problem causing.
Fact that Kevin has stated in the past , when the Predator project is done the website will be updated with an article about the Predator project. I believe that is how the Duck Hunt article was handled.
100% agree it's the non concerned confusing the concerned. Stated well. Btw ,I am a concerned party with vested interest.
As for pricey no . Privy ,well, apparently not as much as I thought based on being called a big shot for being able to call Kevin as it's more common than I thought .
I stand behind my statement that I did my best to not be biased,at least in my posts.
And again, I never said people should not be able to post their concerns or opinions. Quote me otherwise please. The closest thing to it is that I did not see or address cosmo when he accused me of it saying it.
The request for build/production numbers was to see who on the list was actually here posting to add validity,and to pass it on to Kevin.
Predator is happening . privy info ? No. Public info ? Yes . You just have to believe.
Oh and as for 200 or 250, what was offered to the public and what the contract states may have been 2 different things early on..... pure speculation on my part though.

I never said you said people could not post concerns...lol...quote me correctly back at you! I said why can't folks post concerns without being judged and criticized

-1
#347 5 years ago

<<<<<<<
Oh and as for 200 or 250, what was offered to the public and what the contract states may have been 2 different things early on..... pure speculation on my part though.
<<<<<<<

Well at least you changed and used the word speculation now. Originally you said license was 250 no more or no less like you actually had the contract in your pocket. I called you on it because I remember what Kevin said two years 7 months ago ( I did have to back read to find it).

>>>>>>>
You would be right. We will be shooting for 200 games to be produced, but will go to 250 if the demand is high enough. There will be no more than 250 made, when all is said and done.
>>>>>>>
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/predator-pinball-at-michigan-pinball-expo/page/2

#349 5 years ago
Quoted from labnip:

did you just use a "diff tool" to do that?

No but I am drinking beer

#354 5 years ago
Quoted from jammer74:

No you did not , I stand corrected.
As for that statement, I don't feel I judged or criticized, just asked for info to be able to form an opinion and for others to do so also.
As for everything else I hope my statements and intentions were/are clear.
The "i heard this" and "i think that " are volatile to those that don't understand what's fact or fiction. especially when it stated by someone who comes off as a buyer or they make it sound like the real in the know knowledge ,when in fact it's a friend of an anonymous friend who doesn't speak for them self or someone who is talking about the $250 deposit who displays no knowledge of the current deposit amount .
Again that's where including or following up with I was/am xxx out of xxx and xxx of build order validates concern comment and opinion that may sway favor to or from. Especially if Kevin planned on checking into it.
8hrs on this forum is enough for me. I can't imagine how consumed Kevin gets when he posts or responds added to the private emails and phone calls he gets . With 100% certainty if I were him I'd want to get this project done for everyone's piece of mind. And to play the hell out of the games.

I guess were all good. Let's agree to disagree lol...I mean we have different views. I do agree with several points you made, hopefully you agree with a couple of mine.

Back to the mess at hand. I hope tomorrow, or sooner, someone gets Kevin on the phone and he does three things. 1. Upload Predator back to web site. 2. Refund the two people waiting. 3. post a photo of the games in progress and maybe boxes of parts to be assembled!

To think these three itty bitty things could make so many people happy! I like happy people and I sincerely dislike conflicts. This thread is just a big conflict at this point

#659 5 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

Sorry... I knew I went too far with the spinach post immediately after I posted it.
I'm sorry...

I like to laugh. That photo made me laugh! Don't tell me it's against some rule?

#676 5 years ago

What a shame. I am sad. One person in this entire world has the power to make many people happy and will not? Or is not in a hurry to? Could care less about Pinside? I mentioned awhile back I would like Kevin to do 3 itty bitty things. 1) refund the two people waiting. 2) upload the Predator image back to Skit website. 3) post a photo of a bunch of games/materials here.

It sounds like he does not care to despite it would only takes 5 minutes to do all 3 and make many people happy! I like happy people. Perhaps he does not. I will not be considering any Skit games in the future because of this attitude. GL to him and waiters of Predator!

#696 5 years ago
Quoted from inhomearcades:

I must be the only one that considers who I am buying a game from just as much as what that game is. I am happy to hear he is willing to eventually communicate with his current customers, but he should also be concerned with his potential customers as well.
Maybe I am only speaking for myself, but it seems as though others are feeling this way as well.

I felt this way. Some folk here have the position that if you are not "in" on Predator then mind your own business and you should not be in this thread. What about people considering game 2? Or better yet...what about people hanging in the backrow hoping to nab a Predator from the first person putting one on the used market? Absolutely a person like this would hang out in Predator threads despite not being in the 250 club!

#700 5 years ago
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

Just so you know im not of this mindset. I do think that Kevin doesn't owe people that have no skin in Skit-B an explanation about why he pulled down videos or any trace of Predator. People that are considering game 2 can form an opinion by what we have seen from Skit-B thus far. These people can discuss Skit-B and speculate to the hearts content, since that is what a forum is for. When games are delivered people will more than likely decide on Skit-B games and forget about this thread or if the games are never delivered well it won't matter what Skit-B is trying to sell.

That is odd KC. May I directly quote you from the other Predator thread?

"If you're not in on Predator then it shouldn't matter to you what happens with that pin one way or another"

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/skit-b-predator-apology-lets-wait-for-facts
Lol

#713 5 years ago
Quoted from playboywillis:

Man, after being here for about two years, the only reason I come back is for the Pred thread. The community is just an endless circlejerk of the same threads about the same stuff. Hype about the new game, complaints about the new game, arguments about the new game, arguments about money, etc. I don't remember a JJP thread asking about them being frauds for all the bitching that went on. This thread is the reason Skit-B doesn't come around anymore. How many other developers you see that are as active on the pinball threads as Skit-B was? You got two guys that did coin-op their whole lives trying to create something, apparently at the cost of their working relationship, and you think they don't want this game to be over and done with and shipped? I think the project started off as a fun thing, and then was realized for how much work had to actually go into it. Plus, being active on Pinside is kind of like the fame overnight thing, but I'm sure the negative comments far outweigh the positive. These guys never asked for the up front money like the other guys until they had to. This game was never really going to gain a huge profit so I can see why some refunds are taking longer than expected. You think they have a refund fund to toss money back to fickle consumers? Most of these companies start or operate under some kind of backing fund. These guys didn't even do a kickstarter; they just started it because an idea that they made in their basement seemed cool and people wanted a piece of it. They never even planned to sell it! Now, to have more money at one time than anyone has ever seen in their life, trying to line up 1000 different things to come together at the right time to get a product out to a mere 250 people, and this is the feedback that they get on the forums? I'd want to disappear from this place, too. /rant

If I asked you a fair question, could you give me a fair answer?

How long did it take you to type and submit that post? The reason I ask is it unfair for Predator pinball followers to expect a similar post from the manufacturer? What does it take...2 or 3 minutes? I back read the old Pradotor threads today. It is not even remotely funny how many times Kevin posted here at the time the $250 payment was due and then again regarding the $3k payment. Why not take the time it took you and I to type a post here and just do it? Yes he does owe Pinside that. Go back read...he used Pinside like a magnet on steel to pull funds in via posting here! Now silent!

Not good, period!

#718 5 years ago
Quoted from rommy:

The email I got from Kevin took less time than your post. If I were him there is NO WAY you would get me to post here. He is communicating with customers, no need to come here for the pitchforks. There are a few guys like a frothing mob. FACT - when you state FACT it does not make it true LOL . Too funny!

I guess I don't understand. He goes to expo with the pin. I mean jeesh that is way out on the front lines. Why in the world would you go silent months ago and continue now in regards to Pinside? That itself is strange amongst everything else discussed here. I talked to him and his mom back when I was in...straight respectable folks. I do not understand I guess...perhaps I never will

#720 5 years ago
Quoted from jlm33:

No need to confront the Pinside mob indeed. Especially in that thread which leaves a very sour taste.
Funny how the most active posters in that thread are actually not customers

I do not understand you and others and this non-customer comments and being in a thread. I day trade and because of that I am in countless threads daily before I even take a position. Pinball, cars, stocks, boats,etc....all the same in cyberspace. Should not matter if you are an owner or not!!!

#746 5 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Well, to start with I would have reached out to others in the community via PM if my email from 3 weeks ago had gone unanswered (I would not have waited 3 weeks if it was a priority). Then I apparently would have never been in his situation.
I offered to forward on his info to Kevin via the email I had gotten correspondence through and BAM, problem resolved in a few hours.
Pretty sad that the OP had a little freak out and started a thread insinuating a pinball company is a scam after really doing nothing besides supposedly sending an email 3 weeks ago.
Even sadder that he is unable to realize that something which was likely his inability to properly communicate caused this whole ordeal and yet he edits the thread title to still include "scam" when he could edit to state his "fact" of skitB contacted via correct email and refund issued immediately.

My goodness. Blame shift? Did you just blame O.P. for everything? Oh my....I guess I should have expected that based on your posting style

#778 5 years ago

I would think if the o.p. did not provide the 2nd payment of $3k that the $250 would auto refund. Kind of like you are disqualified because you opted to not meet a payment deadline. The contract was null and void at that point and a refund should be automatic from skitb. No request should be required at all ( IMO).

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