That would be a real bummer if they didn't secure the license before they started. I've seen this happen before and complete projects were scrubbed because of it. They really need to communicate here and set the record straight.

No you did not , I stand corrected.
As for that statement, I don't feel I judged or criticized, just asked for info to be able to form an opinion and for others to do so also.
As for everything else I hope my statements and intentions were/are clear.

The "i heard this" and "i think that " are volatile to those that don't understand what's fact or fiction. especially when it stated by someone who comes off as a buyer or they make it sound like the real in the know knowledge ,when in fact it's a friend of an anonymous friend who doesn't speak for them self or someone who is talking about the $250 deposit who displays no knowledge of the current deposit amount .

Again that's where including or following up with I was/am xxx out of xxx and xxx of build order validates concern comment and opinion that may sway favor to or from. Especially if Kevin planned on checking into it.
8hrs on this forum is enough for me. I can't imagine how consumed Kevin gets when he posts or responds added to the private emails and phone calls he gets . With 100% certainty if I were him I'd want to get this project done for everyone's piece of mind. And to play the hell out of the games.

This thread reminds me of the Seinfeld episode where George doesn't hear back from a girl he has been dating and leaves increasingly hysterical messages on her answering machine.

I guess were all good. Let's agree to disagree lol...I mean we have different views. I do agree with several points you made, hopefully you agree with a couple of mine.

Back to the mess at hand. I hope tomorrow, or sooner, someone gets Kevin on the phone and he does three things. 1. Upload Predator back to web site. 2. Refund the two people waiting. 3. post a photo of the games in progress and maybe boxes of parts to be assembled!

To think these three itty bitty things could make so many people happy! I like happy people and I sincerely dislike conflicts. This thread is just a big conflict at this point

Well one things for sure, this thread is taking a lot of heat off of Jpop.

The most truthful statement in this thread.

I don't think so.

If anything, both examples are going to give more people serious pause before laying down cash on pre-orders from unproven companies.

I was in on Pred very early and was a huge supporter of the project. I offered up my restaurant as a potential Canadian Launch point for the SkitB team.
Over time things just were not feeling right to me; lack of toys, the UV struggles, lack of communication, even (dare I say) the vibe Kevin portrayed to me at my first ever pinball expo (MPE 2013). I knew I had to get out and after emailing Kevin, I had my money back within a week.

I hope Kevin and his team get all of the issues sorted out and get these games out to the people that desire them.
I agree, there is no scam here....just learning curves (some are very steep)! I truly don't think Hemi would put his reputation on the line backing a phantom machine without the possibility of being constructed.

Now Kevin....get on here and say something!!!!

I was in at $250, then after limited communications, I decided to bail once the $3000 was due. Only in fear....well of this.....

I got my $250 back in a couple of weeks. But $3000 is a much bigger prize. Once everyone is paid to 3k or higher... No contact. I hate this, and I sincerely hope this comes through. I have even regretted bailing on a couple occasions, because I think this game is going to be very cool, but this uncertainty make me glad I did. I don't get it, all of this concern is so easily avoided, and we all want nothing more than a quick note of clarification....or a refund if the project is a no go. No harm no foul. Thanks for trying, kind of thing.

But then again maybe all is well, the unknown is the worst, I feel for you all that are vested.

I do not believe there is a scam at all, Kevin or Jpop just find that making a pinball machine is more difficult than they thought, especially for Kevin who did not have 33 years in the industry like John.

I'm in on RAZA and Predator (For Jammer #9, build ~19) and bought a WOZ. I don't think I will ever go in on a preorder again based on my experience with all. I support what they are doing and wish them success. But will do so in the future without my preorder deposits. If we all spoke with our money and said enough with preorders maybe then all the boutiques would listen better.

btw - Let me point out that Heck and Spooky are delivering AMH. So if they came out with something I wanted maybe. TBL team looks good but so did Predator early on. No offense just being honest.

We were all lucky jack got to the finish line with a real company.

It's a difficult situation. If people like you didn't put money down on a game and company like JJP, and take a risk, that game (and company) probably wouldn't have made it.

Same with the pins being made by people like JPop etc. WOOLY will not be made if they don't get 100 preorders.

Some companies have more risk involved than others. People have to be comfortable with the level of risk, and the amount of delays that are a given, before getting involved in a preorder.

Tell you what, I have a ton of faith in Dutch Pinball. Hope I never have to eat those words! But they're doing everything right so far compared to everyone else.

It's weird, I heard the "SkitB doesn't have the license" rumor at least a year ago if not more. You'd think by now if that was the case that something would have come to light. Forget their website, these shows are highly public venues. Hell I got my Helen translite on the local news in Texas.

Like I said in my post above, some companies have less risk than others. I think DP risk is similar to that of JJP with WOZ. I.e, not super risky.

If I'm waiting for my TBL in 3 years I'm going to cry.

I agree. Like many, at first I was happy - proud even - to help fund a start-up pinball company each of the three for different reasons. Each have disappointed for different reasons as they strayed from their mission statements to owners. Always time to mend those wounds but the lackluster effort to remedy by all is disappointing regardless if I eventually get my game or not.

I have WOZ in my possession and enjoy it. Still not erasing my disappointment in handling of things. But I wish them super success as I wait for the Hobbit in the secondary market.

Well TBL was basically announced a year ago, so you've already got 1 year down. Two to go.

I pull out of Predator when the last big payment was due. There were many reasons for me pulling out but the biggest was the lack of communication from the company. I had no trouble getting my money back after a couple of emails. I hope everything works out but the lack of communication was just not working for me. Plus there seemed to be new stern games that were sure bets.

I don't follow the pin much at all but sorry to hear this. I remember a post from early this year where I thought the game was ready for production? I know there was a ton of replies in that thread. Mission accomplished or something like that. What happened since then?

There are an alarming number of people in this thread that have bailed out after the $250 deposit. I wonder if the amount of people pulling out has anything to do with all this as well.

(full disclosure, never was in on predator myself)

I hope for the best for everyone involved. If you want you money back, I hope you get it. If you are excited for the game, I hope it blows you away. If you are making the game, I hope its a success. This is really the only attitude and sentiment anyone should have if they dont have money down. If you do have money down I think you have every right to want updates and regular ones at that. If you want your money back, you should get it if that was a guarantee.

"vibe"? Was he drunk or something? Did he fondle you? Please indulge us.

I believe Kevin will respond when he gets wind of this thread on Monday (tomorrow).

This thread doesn't have a good feeling at this point, but I hope it's all something silly and just bad communication. I think an awful lot of these new companies, are forgetting about their customer base. Seems to me they should all ask themselves the question, (if I had given $xxxx of my hard earned money to this company would I be happy about the communication) each and every day.

This thread certainly isn't healthy for Skit-B. I thought about bailing on my order a number of times while reading it this far. At this point I'll remain optimistic, but if I don't hear or see something soon I think I'm going to order one of those new Star Wars cockpits instead.

DP definitely seems ahead of the curve with TBL, but they have also proven quite capable of missing target dates and huge lapses in communication with the BoP 2.0 project. "Everything" may be too strong of a word

I think the "finish line" is when your business finally reaches profitability. Considering Jack has many customers out there with money down but no game to show for it, he is still running the marathon (and I think it is too early in the race to tell if he'll make it.)

Predator NEVER looked TBL good!
Not a slam on Predator but the team/game isn't even in the same solar system as TBL ... IMHO

Still waiting on that kit...
But the delays as shitty as they are, sounds like they were unavoidable (at least by DP)
Confident it will be delivered before Xmas

Calm down everyone. Let's give the guy some time to respond.
overkill.jpg

This thread is ridiculous. Name a pinball company that really delivers updates and info in a timely well planned fashion? I've yet to come across one. SkitB has a website with zero mention of the Predator?? JJP doesn't have any videos posted or pictures for that matter of The Hobbit in its current state, maybe the whitewood, how long ago was that? Stern does a little better but for the most part its still crap, the first TWDLE that came off the line, they couldn't post some quick video of gameplay for the site? I want the same thing everyone else wants, communication, updates of even the smallest nature and reassurance that my money is being well spent. How often does that happen in this hobby?

Yeah, it sucks that they couldn't ship BOP 2.0 or really talk about it. There was a good reason for that, and so it's not a strike in my book.

You'll just have to decide if my judgement means anything or not for yourself on that though.

Here's my personal guess on Predator: I don't think it's a scam. That's not even worth talking about. Maybe things aren't going smoothly, but the project is real.

I'm thinking there are legal things going on. It won't be the first pinball project here that had to suddenly go radio silent over legal stuff. Sometimes it sucks but you just have to not say anything for a bit.

I'm hoping it's that, and things are just moving along quietly right now.

"Hey everybody its Kevin here from SkitB, i just wanted to give everyone an update on your Predator games you've preordered from us. We had some setbacks due to licensing, but rest assured weve got them worked out and you're going to love PredaTOUR pinball. Play along as a blonde haired austrian Special Ops commando known as Capt Lola and kick some PredaTour butt in this action packed pinball."

video of it makes it look like a turd. good luck

_{Post edited by moderator: Good bye from thread.}

the art looks like barf, and the layout leads to a ton of bricked shots

Predator will be made... I have faith.

You don't like the game, have it your way. There are 23 possible alternatives. Don't waste your time on us then!

bush works for skit- b.png

Edit: this is by no means a political statement...just reference to the mission accomplished banner

There is definitely some of this going on.......

stock-photo-business-man-with-his-head-buried-in-the-sand-2541043.jpg

stock-vector-the-ostrich-has-buried-a-head-in-sand-58909777.jpg

I'm on board with the licensing issue being the main hold up. I'm not 100% sure about that of course, but it feels like the right problem given everything.

I was always very surprised they walked up and secured the *full* rights and use of this major movie with major actors. I wonder (no idea if true and maybe a long shot) if they thought by securing (if they did) the movie rights that allowed them to use all the actors and voices, and later down the road were advised they could not use the likenesses and other aspects without each actors license. Maybe it's a matter or only new audio and art, maybe more.

Either way, I'm not surprised by this, and mentioned this many times, and that is nothing against skit-B. For anyone to make a pinball machine, you are inevitably going to be faced with overwhelming obstacles near the end. I hope they can pull it off somehow, as they did this out of passion.

The limited number as well has always baffled me, as you would think the 250 would just start to pay for the production of the machine, and the higher numbers is where you would see the profit, if any.

I remember hearing that a long time ago as well. As time went on and the game progressed, those rumors seemed ridiculous. Now, I don't know.

Because there was some intent shown by removing the game from the website, facebook, twitter and youtube, there is definitely far more going on than we know of and its been going on for a while.

According to Kevin the licensing is fine.

Why would kaneda say those terrible things when he so clearly has no clue? I would love to know what motivates people to say those terrible lies. I suspect drunken arrogant posting, but the arrogance and "holier than thou" and the "I am better than Pinside, I am Kaneda" really shines through in this thread.

I think Kaneda should have a glass of chocalate milk and hang out with his ninja turtles bed sheets...

Speculation is the mother of all evils. Only way to combat it is the ruler him self to come state the facts.

Yeah while driving around in a newly purchased Ferrari 458!

Agreed, and I for one can not wait to play the finished TBL, and then see their next project!

I am with you Rommy, I can also see why speculation is happening. We just need Skit B to come and clarify. Or even say everything is fine... People get nervous when someone has $3k of their cash and then goes off the grid, and rightfully so. It just seems so easily avoided.

If it goes on much longer, the concern will likely become anger....

I bowed out because I couldnt take the stress of the unknown wait......
I certainly hope all this works out fine.

I can only say how hard it is, and really this is so true, to make a new lightbulb, let alone a whole pinball.

Hoping Kevin hasn't aged dramatically in health to achieve this goal...

"Everything is fine"?

Hmmm. It's amazing the lengths that pinball people will go and the "suspension of reality" they will accept to keep their dreams alive

Something is "not fine."

It's one thing for a company to stop delivering updates. However, its something quite different for them to deliberately sanitize the internet of EVERY single reference to their product! No one does that voluntarily....

Anyone who still believes "everything is fine", please send me a PM. I have a friend in Nigeria who needs your help transferring a LARGE sum of money out of the country.

How's Alien going Rob?

If this table has been issued a C&D order then I highly doubt we will see a cent of our money back, as such what Skit B need to do is the following;

Put the machine out with no art (plain playfield, translite & cabinet), no speech or music, so its not Predator.

Then 'someone' to step in and create a playfield protector with the art on it, decals, translite.
Finally as the machine is PROC details on PC spec, with bittorrent of samples and dmd assets.

pred #140