(Topic ID: 107295)

Predator seemed like a scam --- but eventually happily resolved!


By JimWilks

5 years ago



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  • Latest reply 5 years ago by pmWolf
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#251 5 years ago
Quoted from 2RustyBalls:

...we give money to people to form companies to design and build pinball machines and now are surprised when it goes bad? Really? Quit giving money as deposit on machines. Stop the madness.

don't start to make sense!

-1
#252 5 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

It was his first post in this thread. My guess is that he didn't even read the stuff about the potential license issue.

You mean the topic that is pure speculation driven only by an echo chamber trying to make it an issue?

Driven entirely by commentary on what they chose to put on their website?

And people wonder why this place has a rep...

#253 5 years ago
Quoted from SadSack:

You are just plain wrong. WHy would you think anyone sitting on a million dollars of customers' money would have 3 or 4 minutes per month to actually think about and type a short update? You must be crazy.
BTW, I'm thinking the license holdup has something to do with arnie and Jessie "the mind" having an ego battle.

Too many people 'thinking' here, but that's cool. Let's keep this in mind gang: unless you can prove anything, please stop posting your thoughts in such a way as to present them as "I've heard", or "I was told by", or the best, " I have an insider" when you don't.

Other than that, speculation and talking in this thread is actually being quite civil.

#254 5 years ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

He said they were suspicions and gut feelings not facts, so it is not slander/libel.

Still statements made that would harm a companys/persons reputation or business. Even if presented without stating as fact, it's really on the edge to infer they might be doing it.

#255 5 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Still statements made that would harm a companys/persons reputation or business. Even if presented without stating as fact, it's really on the edge to infer they might be doing it.

True but the fine line is with missed timelines and taking peoples money a company owes them some updates. Its normal to have questions based on the delays as well as information that is not present and even removed.
In this case the entire project was born out of pinside. They really need to take five minutes and address the questions. If not there is no way to fault the speculation.

#256 5 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Still statements made that would harm a companys/persons reputation or business. Even if presented without stating as fact, it's really on the edge to infer they might be doing it.

All of that is SkitB's fault for not being communicative. That is all anybody wants...besides actually getting the games.

#257 5 years ago

Reality check. They were at expo with a working game...
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/skit-b-to-show-experts-of-disaster-at-the-chicago-expo#post-1982439
This is NOT pinball gremlins.

#258 5 years ago

I'm sure it's not a scam but I don't gave a shit about that right now. Where's Whysnow? I wanna make sure he hasn't backed out of the bet!

#259 5 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

True but the fine line is with missed timelines and taking peoples money a company owes them some updates. Its normal to have questions based on the delays as well as information that is not present and even removed.
In this case the entire project was born out of pinside. They really need to take five minutes and address the questions. If not there is no way to fault the speculation.

Exactly. If the explanation for the vanishing of the liscense and other concerns raised here is so minor and palatable, then for God's sake spend 5 minutes and end this now. This speculation has to be quite damaging to their brand and surely they're not too foolish to realize this.

-11
#260 5 years ago

Wow. I come here to read up on things and reading how people post on here literally makes me not want anything to do with any type of forums. I see that nothing has changed when it comes to forums in the the last several years. Kinda why I never much got into them. Nothing but speculations. Trolls. Assholes and a few good level headed people. But why should that surprise me. That's pretty much how it is in the real world.

On another note I'm sure kevin and skit b are working hard like there company depends in it. And like many have said in this thread earlier. If it was a scam I don't think he would be showing up at expos . Half you guys sound like morons. Why can't people be more optimistic and have a little faith

#261 5 years ago
Quoted from the_one:

Why no Bush or Obama or Carter or Washington vid??????

Because they haven't been featured in any epic movie clips.

#262 5 years ago
Quoted from Kneissl:

Reality check. They were at expo with a working game...
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/skit-b-to-show-experts-of-disaster-at-the-chicago-expo#post-1982439
This is NOT pinball gremlins.

Anybody can make a single game of any license they choose. It is when you go to sell copies that a license is needed.

One other note, I feel that the term "scam" is harsh and excessive in this thread.

#263 5 years ago
Quoted from lokiean:

..Nothing but speculations. Trolls. Assholes and a few good level headed people.

You forgot aloof sideliners who think they are above everybody else while adding nothing to the conversation.

I see at least one of those.

12
#264 5 years ago

Bottom line, if a pinball company accepts prepayment they need to be communicative.

19
#265 5 years ago
Quoted from badbilly27:

So what did we learn? Communication could eliminate much of the natives carrying pitchforks jumping from MMr, Hobbit, JPOP and now Predator boards. You pinball makers want to embrace the community and leverage online to position yourselves as different than Stern and sell boutique pins - then act that way after you get our money not just before. You are one of us when you go back to acting like one of us - communicating honestly whether we like the message or not.
Marketing 101 - big or small you can't escape the basics once you have our deposit

Whysnow, I had a fun bet re Jpop and delivery this year. I'm already waving the white flag and sending RD his case of beer. I would caution you with going overboard here!

COMMUNICATION!

What irks me the most about these guys, any of them, all of them, is the attitude they take once money changes hands. Jpop had a very detailed and organized time line with features detailed etc., all necessary to get our $$$ up front. At least he has a "courtesy blog" despite a lack of a timeline and answers to simple questions until recently.

With Kevin and Skitb, everybody remembers how impressed we ALL were, what seems like yesterday but was years ago when Kevin was the new guy on the block and was answering detailed questions non stop, on these Pinside threads.

It made people optimistic that finally we had someone who would listen to the consumer, a "hobbyist" building a pin.

What's happened since, the only blackout UV mode with Predator is Kevin's silence. It's why I backed out. Congrats though to the other 250 and I hope it all ends well and you have a great pin!

To let people come on here and speculate, fill in the gaps, just like with Jpop, is STUPID!

Whether it's JJP with Smaug and past misrepresentations, Jpop with secrecy, Skitb with all of this BS, Stern with code and the collective pathetic nature of all of their presentations, DP excluded, it just blows me away that someone can't/won't take the lead here on marketing and selling a pinball machine the right way, from F ing start to finish!

Are you next DP? Let's hope not.

The lack of info and communication, the fact that Predator has been removed from the website, twitter, etc. I'm going to CONCLUDE that they don't have the license, prove everybody wrong, communicate. Seriously, wtf

Good luck everybody, as a guy that suffered through Woz and now with Jpop, I hope it all ends well!

#266 5 years ago
Quoted from lokiean:

Wow. I come here to read up on things and reading how people post on here literally makes me not want anything to do with any type of forums. I see that nothing has changed when it comes to forums in the the last several years. Kinda why I never much got into them. Nothing but speculations. Trolls. Assholes and a few good level headed people. But why should that surprise me. That's pretty much how it is in the real world.
On another note I'm sure kevin and skit b are working hard like there company depends in it. And like many have said in this thread earlier. If it was a scam I don't think he would be showing up at expos . Half you guys sound like morons. Why can't people be more optimistic and have a little faith

Name calling on your third post probably isn't the best way to endear yourself to the Pinside community.....

#267 5 years ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

Bottom line, if a pinball company accepts prepayment they need to be communicative.

Well said. It seems pretty simple.

#268 5 years ago
Quoted from lokiean:

Wow. I come here to read up on things and reading how people post on here literally makes me not want anything to do with any type of forums. I see that nothing has changed when it comes to forums in the the last several years. Kinda why I never much got into them. Nothing but speculations. Trolls. Assholes and a few good level headed people. But why should that surprise me. That's pretty much how it is in the real world.
On another note I'm sure kevin and skit b are working hard like there company depends in it. And like many have said in this thread earlier. If it was a scam I don't think he would be showing up at expos . Half you guys sound like morons. Why can't people be more optimistic and have a little faith

No reason to criticize the suspicious. I won't pretend to know whats up here, but there are similar situations like this where people have been ripped off by people that seemed credible.

There is a relatively recent one right in gameroom circles... Type Ram Controls in google, and read how someone with the actual ability to make and ship incredible products still chose to screw people over. Lack of communication for months, then appearing when everyone started asking questions was one of the things that allowed Ram to fleece people for tens of thousands of dollars.

#269 5 years ago

I love how everyone's drawn to a good car wreck. This is such a pointless thread with nothing but hearsay. All other Predator threads have been quiet for months. Now, someone posts something inflammatory and everyone jumps of the bandwagon. Including me now...stupid.

#270 5 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

You mean the topic that is pure speculation driven only by an echo chamber trying to make it an issue?
Driven entirely by commentary on what they chose to put on their website?
And people wonder why this place has a rep...

Seriously?

head-in-sand.jpg
#271 5 years ago
Quoted from lokiean:

Trolls. Assholes and a few good level headed people. But why should that surprise me. That's pretty much how it is in the real world.

Was a fairly civil discussion with hopes of some clarification until you popped in and started calling folks here Aholes. Nice!!

#272 5 years ago

You guys need to renew your subscriptions to 'Teenage girl gosip ' magazine

It is the weekend, may be he had bettertthings to do than ccheck Pinside every hour

-1
#273 5 years ago

Lol that was my 3rd post wasn't it. I'm pretty sure tons of people don't even get that far sometimes. I understand the perspective of concern and paranoid ad a worry about being screwed because let's face it. Everyone at some points been screwed. But shouldn't a forum be a friendly place of constructive and informative words. Instead of a never ending echo of people repeating the same incorrect unbacked by fact bs that echos on and on. I mean really . Who hasn't read this thread and thought wow. That's 15 mins of my life I'm not getting back and I've learned nothing factual or informative. I get were waiting on something that's at the shit or get off the pot stage. But we're all (maybe we're not) adults. And if anyone decided they'd like to back out of the predator let me know. Cause I wouldn't mind getting my hands on one. When they do

#274 5 years ago
Quoted from lokiean:

And if anyone decided they'd like to back out of the Predator let me know. Cause I wouldn't mind getting my hands on one. When they do

You can PM me. I'm in the early build.

#275 5 years ago
Quoted from lokiean:

And if anyone decided they'd like to back out of the Predator let me know. Cause I wouldn't mind getting my hands on one. When they do

You obviously have not read the whole thread then. There are people trying to get their money back, and there are concerns that SkitB may not have the proper licensing to legally make Predator.
It would be easy for you to buy a spot from one of the people that is trying to get their money back.

#276 5 years ago

Nah. This thread is ok in comparison to RGP threads of yesteryear.

Misinformation has ceased for now, now that we can talk to eachother like 12 year olds.

Pinside is a fun forum. I'm digging it. Although the OP should change thread title to something like 'SkitB lack of communication' or that sort. Scam has all sorts of negative connotations...except VD pinball. That was called out.

#277 5 years ago

Can we all agree that "scam" is not the right description, and possibly "Is Skit B in over their heads?" maybe a little more accurate?
It is my belief that in Canada, to successfully sue someone for fraud, you have to prove intent.
My point being, there's ZERO evidence that Skit B are maliciously trying to dupe anyone.
Seems like a couple good pinball-lovers trying to make a pin. It certainly appears as though there's much more to building a licensed pinball machine than many of us currently understand.
We've seen these sorts of projects delayed, over and over again (Jpop, JJP...) so this shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone.
One of the worst things a company can do is avoid communicating with customers. Especially after taking deposits/payments. It's feels as though the customer is no longer valued.

I do propose that everyone takes a deep breath for a couple days to see how they reply to these accusations. Give them a little time (48 hours?) to post something about an update.

I also would like to suggest to any pinball manufacturers out there that even bad news is better than no news at all.

#278 5 years ago

If its a scam then the CIA needs to hire Kevin fast, showing a second title, coming to the expo's. The names Kulek, Kevin Kulek.

images-626.jpg
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#279 5 years ago

Not only does "Predator" not appear anywhere on the Skit-B website, Facebook account, or Twitter account, it also looks like they have removed their Predator videos from YouTube.

Here is a post from the Predator update thread posted by moderator TheDudeAbides, which was a copy and paste from a Skit-B email, which included a link to a Predator game play video. That video has been removed:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/predator-updates#post-1713809

And here is Skit-B's YouTube channel, which have no videos or references to Predator at all:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQS9TJrHPKSmotfplwP3Zlg

I wish the title of this thread was something like "Does Skit-B Have the Predator License" as I think there would be fewer arguments and people upset because of the word "scam". It may not be a scam, but there is obviously something going on that really needs to be explained.

You don't just remove all referenced to Predator Pinball from your own website, and take down all of your YouTube videos if everything is running according to plan.

#280 5 years ago
Quoted from Hazoff:

If its a scam then the CIA needs to hire Kevin fast, showing a second title, coming to the expo's. The names Kulek, Kevin Kulek.

images-626.jpg 5 KB

Hazoff, much like trying to talk to a big boobed girl, I'm trying not to stare at your awesome avatar! Fricken cool bro!!!!

( not in a gay way either. Just a huge fan of Road Warrior)

#281 5 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Not only does "Predator" not appear anywhere on the SkitB website, Facebook account, or Twitter account, it also looks like they have removed their Predator videos from YouTube.
Here is a post from the Predator update thread posted by moderator TheDudeAbides, which was a copy and paste from a SkitB email, which included a link to a Predator game play video. That video has been removed:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/predator-updates#post-1713809
And here is Skit-B's YouTube channel, which have no videos or references to Predator at all:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/predator-updates#post-1713809
I wish the title of this thread was something like "Does Skit-B Have the Predator License" as I think there would be fewer arguments and people upset because of the word "scam". It may not be a scam, but there is obviously something going on that really needs to be explained.
You don't just remove all referenced to Predator Pinball from your own website, and take down all of your YouTube videos if everything is running according to plan.

I agree with Rob.

#282 5 years ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

All of that is SkitB's fault for not being communicative. That is all anybody wants...besides actually getting the games.

IMO Kevin started to flake out as soon as the mission complete post which was 8 months ago, first the game / mission was not complete at all, second he deleted all the earlier videos including the mission complete video, then he disappeared and had no answers for why the UV paint could not be seen or what type of UV light source was going to be used, why was Aaron not on the team anymore, why was there more info on Duck Hunt and a Experts of Dangerous info than if Predator? Why was he re-writing the payment schedule midstream? Why wouldn't Kevin answer any e-mails? There were too many red flags for me.

#283 5 years ago

Also from the link I posted above which included an interview with Kevin:

" Why isn't Predator anywhere on your website?

Our website admittedly has been on the backburner for quite some time, and could definitely use some updating. The sad truth is that any time I personally take to mess with the site is time I could be spending on the games, and paying a person to work on the site would feel wasteful at this exact moment. We are expecting a short downtime after the majority of parts are sorted, so hopefully I'll be able to get into it a bit at that time. "

#284 5 years ago

Sonm how much are people in at this point, is it the $250 or is it more than that?

#285 5 years ago
Quoted from BillE:

Sonm how much are people in at this point, is it the $250 or is it more than that?

Three big ones. $3000 unless they had not completed the buy-in in which case it's just $250.

If Kevin has received $3000 from 250 buyers he's sitting on $750,000.

#286 5 years ago
Quoted from Chambahz:

Can we all agree that "scam" is not the right description, and possibly "Is Skit B in over their heads?" maybe a little more accurate?

If the OP hasn't received a refund or communication as to why he hasn't received it, then thats why he worded the topic as he did. It may not be "our" or "your" views because you got your refund or never asked for one in the first place because your still in. If he missed the deadline the money should have been refunded immediately by SkitB.

#287 5 years ago

^ That's a valid point actually.

#288 5 years ago

Oof....The fact that they removed the YouTube videos, removed any references on their website and have been radio silent is a cause of concern. Dragging that same prototype to shows proves nothing... Hope everyone eventually gets their games.

#289 5 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Our website admittedly has been on the backburner for quite some time, and could definitely use some updating. The sad truth is that any time I personally take to mess with the site is time I could be spending on the games, and paying a person to work on the site would feel wasteful at this exact moment. We are expecting a short downtime after the majority of parts are sorted, so hopefully I'll be able to get into it a bit at that time. "

He is good at telling people what they want to hear......

#290 5 years ago

Is it possible that there is a condition of the licence that SkitB isn't allowed to publicly market the sale of the pin? It doesn't sound like they payed a whole lot for the licence which is why they were only allowed to make 250 units. Maybe there were some other stipulations about marketing and advertising. The more you pay for a licence the more freedom you get with the Brand i.e. more units and maybe more exposure? Just a thought.

#291 5 years ago

OP I am sure you will get your refund, they are just behind. I am confident they are not running a scam to get deposit money and abscond with it as they were just at expo and some people are in communication with them and, well, it just sounds absurd.

I cannot wait to get my Predator , which, according to Kevin, is fully licensed. Nothing here at the rumor mill has come above the level of raw speculation, which is funny in it's own right.

#292 5 years ago
Quoted from NinJaBooT:

Is it possible that there is a condition of the licence that SkitB isn't allowed to publicly market the sale of the pin? It doesn't sound like they payed a whole lot for the licence which is why they were only allowed to make 250 units. Maybe there were some other stipulations about marketing and advertising. The more you pay for a licence the more freedom you get with the Brand i.e. more units and maybe more exposure? Just a thought.

This is the first post in this thread that warrants a serious read by everyone following along. Again, not my place, but I am familiar with common licensing terms, and I am familiar with this case specifically. Thank you for contributing something of significance to this discussion!

Aaron
FAST Pinball

-1
#293 5 years ago

Roll call to those that have posted in this thread who are actually purchasing a Licensed Predator Pinball machine..... It is safe to assume not posting a reply or not including your production/build # means you're not on the list . Then when people read this thread they may actually understand any statement you have made or concern you have to be worthy of attention. Comments being volatile or positive,all the same. I myself would like to have a better understanding.

#294 5 years ago
Quoted from fastpinball:

This is the first post in this thread that warrants a serious read by everyone following along. Again, not my place, but I am familiar with common licensing terms, and I am familiar with this case specifically. Thank you for contributing something of significance to this discussion!
Aaron
FAST Pinball

If in fact that is the case, then why didn't Kevin just say that that's the case when he gave his interview that I quoted above? Instead of just saying he's behind on maintaining their website. Especially when the website had Predator pinball on it before, and it was removed?

#295 5 years ago

The Law of Information Flow

"Information, like electricity, WILL flow, and it will ALWAYS take the path of least resistance."

If you don't communicate with stakeholders, the grapevine will thrive. If you communicate with stakeholders, you can keep the grapevine in check.

#296 5 years ago
Quoted from rommy:

OP I am sure you will get your refund, they are just behind. I am confident they are not running a scam to get deposit money and abscond with it as they were just at expo and some people are in communication with them and, well, it just sounds absurd.
I cannot wait to get my Predator , which, according to Kevin, is fully licensed. Nothing here at the rumor mill has come above the level of raw speculation, which is funny in it's own right.

This is most likely, Kevin is swamped which accounts for delay and probably his record keeping is behind as well, however it's very odd he can't be reached or won't respond to this thread.

Many of his buyers are on pinside, I would assume Kevin had access to this forum and he should be aware something is brewing here.

#297 5 years ago

Someone call Kevin who's got his cell number

-1
#298 5 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Even more disconcerting than that language is the fact that there is zero mention of the word "Predator" anywhere on their webpage. Or Facebook. Or Twitter account.

Did Predator appear on their webpage before?

According to the Wayback Machine it did.

https://web.archive.org/web/20110822144745/http://www.skitbpinball.com/

Maybe more but I just pulled the first one. SkitB site has been archived 13 times in the last 3 years.

EDIT: Saw DC refer to the same thing. Sorry for repost.

#299 5 years ago
Quoted from lllvjr:

Someone call Kevin who's got his cell number

What build or production # are you?

#300 5 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

If in fact that is the case, then why didn't Kevin just say that that's the case when he gave his interview that I quoted above? Instead of just saying he's behind on maintaining their website. Especially when the website had Predator pinball on it before, and it was removed?

I don't disagree that updating the site appropriately would help fend off threads like this. But I also tend to let our fastpinball.com site slip when we are in "work mode" or traveling. Shifting gears from working on hardware, or games, to updating websites isn't the most natural way to end a day. It is, however, a good chore to get out of the way at the start of the day.

I am going to take my own advice here and get our post-Expo FAST updates going... tomorrow.

Aaron
FAST Pinball

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