(Topic ID: 107295)

Predator seemed like a scam --- but eventually happily resolved!


By JimWilks

5 years ago



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#102 5 years ago
Quoted from dgoett:

I heard from a reliable source the first 10 are being assembled right now.
I was very impressed with how smooth and nice the game played at expo and did note the new sling and inlane plastics.
we'll get our machines. relax.

If thats true I should hear quite soon from Kevin because my games are between 22 and 26. That would be awesome news

#103 5 years ago

Looks like we are 3 for 3 on B S D s...

Lots of trash talk against predator, some of it slanderous, but nobody is willing to put up a pin to back it up.

oh pinside.

10
#104 5 years ago
Quoted from lllvjr:

Ballzy... Guess they decided to skip the UL testing.

There is no law that a product HAS to be tested by UL.

UL is a for-profit, private company, it's not part of the US Government.

=

Look on any of your Bally / Williams pins or Arcade Games and see if you see a UL label.

I've got a couple of Gottliebs that are UL listed, otherwise, nada .

#105 5 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Looks like we are 3 for 3 on B S D s...
Lots of trash talk against Predator, some of it slanderous, but nobody is willing to put up a pin to back it up.
oh pinside.

So your bet is, You'll be playing your finished, completed Predator by the end of 2014? I'd take that bet.

#106 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

There is no law that a product HAS to be tested by UL.

Very true, however, there can be some municipalities that require some form of testing for an item to be sold there. No clue how that works for internet/out of state purchases. Obviously there is some liability risk with not having it tested. There are also other companies that can do similar testing.

#107 5 years ago

I'm not putting a pinball up on a trade, Don't be a douche.
Simply stating things look fishy to me.

Fact is anyone can make a home brew pinball machine for any title they want "for themselves" not for resale. Look at all the one off games that have been to Expo or we have seen in the past. It turns into a whole different ball game with licensing when you change it from being something for youself to enjoy to selling it for a profit.

Congrats on getting your game by the end of 2014. More power to you.
I will personally recant anything I said about this when I see people take delivery and state Whysnow is a Pinball god I should have listened to him, I am such a fool.

Let me pour you another glass

P.s. on the subject of license. I know we all knew about ST and TWD before they came out as it was figured out that Stern had acquired the license to those themes before they went into production. So here is a legit question that I don't know how to look up. If Skit B has the license shouldnt it be published somewhere under 20the Century Fox....just sayin

-1
#108 5 years ago

Kevin>

Yes, I would bet these guys that are slinging shit that I will be playing MY predator in this calendar year. (For clarity, "finished" is whatever product they provide at pickup/delivery; I don't want some technicality BS where someone claims it is not finished because there is a code update later).

That said, you don't have a single game in your pinside collection that I am interested in. Anything not in your current collection?

-10
#109 5 years ago
Quoted from hassellcastle:

I'm not putting a pinball up on a trade, Don't be a douche.

Pretty sure you are the only one being a douche bag here. You come in with all sorts of BS and nothing to back it up. Then you get called to the carpet and back down.

this would be a bet and not a "trade"... WTH?

typical

28
#110 5 years ago

Hey guys,

I can't get into specifics (not my place to) but I got to hangout with Kevin and his crew the week before Expo. While Predator isn't a focus on mine, it was certainly fun to get to see things ramping up for producing a whole bunch of Predators. Cabinets being built, pallets of parts being delivered, not to mention the new prototype toys for game #2.

Predator is certainly not a scam. I have been friends with Kevin now for a while. I have watched as Kevin and Co. have worked as best they can to go from some kids in a basement making games to an indie pinball company who is eager to release their first title and move on to the next and the next and the next. I am liking the decisions Kevin is making to ensure that the lessons learned in the process of Predator's development and coming release, are not repeated for game #2.

I am only chiming in here because it's a bummer seeing a friends hard work ripped apart because of assumptions. I will agree that Kevin and Co. need to refine the communication process a bit and I have told him that. I also know that there are only so many hours in the day. Time working on games, with vendors, on code, etc. Trust me, I know that. It's also realistic to recognize that the level of online engagement in the early Predator days would not be sustainable unless you hire one of those "social media specialist" that seem all the rage these days.

Anyway, Predators are coming. I have been on the ground and I talk to Kevin at least every few days. If I started to see anything that seemed like Predators weren't going to see the light of day, as a friend I would do what I could to aid in anyway. Even lend a hand to build a few... even if they are stuffed with someone else's hardware!

Aaron
FAST Pinball

skitbfastroadtriptoexpo.jpg
-1
#111 5 years ago

I don't think I'm being a douche. I seem to have more thumbs ups from my comments then you do in this thread. I'm done...can't wait to see your game. Or at least a stack of screened playfields or ramps.

#112 5 years ago

I can see where some would jump to conclusions with the whole Pinball Gremlins fiasco fresh on everyone's minds, but this is really happening finally.
Yes, a couple photos of machines lined up in various assembly stages or a stack of playfields would be great, and maybe they will come soon.
Spooky has done the AMH playfields and will be doing [or has already] done the predator playfields. I inspected them real good this weekend as I was concerned about the thickness of the inserts and the frosted look to them, but they do like they will hold up nicely and shouldn't be an issue.
Chill for a few more months and I'm sure you'll see some in owners hands.

#113 5 years ago

is it my imagination or does Kevin look like papa smurf in that photo -- oh, could that be game #3?

Papa_Smurf123.png

#114 5 years ago

It just seems strange that pinside was used heavily for 2 way communication and now crickets.

I mean, how difficult to switch on pc and type a post??

-2
#115 5 years ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

It just seems strange that pinside was used heavily for 2 way communication and now crickets.
I mean, how difficult to switch on pc and type a post??

What's a pc? I haven't used a pc since they invented the iphone

#116 5 years ago
Quoted from rosh:

Very true, however, there can be some municipalities that require some form of testing for an item to be sold there. No clue how that works for internet/out of state purchases. Obviously there is some liability risk with not having it tested. There are also other companies that can do similar testing.

True.

But pins, cranes and arcade games are everywhere and are not listed.

I read a few years ago that over 60% of all Christmas lights had bootleg UL Holograms on them and those are sold at every Wallmart.

#117 5 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

You dont scam folks and then drag a game and yourself to a major show. Cmon folks use a bit of common sense.

This. Exactly.

#118 5 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Looks like we are 3 for 3 on B S D s...

Lots of trash talk against Predator, some of it slanderous, but nobody is willing to put up a pin to back it up.

oh pinside.

I still have cash

the_bet_is_paid2.jpg
#119 5 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

hassellcastle> care to put any money where you slander?
I will make you a bet that Predator is real and I will be playing my game this year.

I would think about making a bet that 11 games will not be delivered to end user customers by December 31st 2014, But you don't have anything I would want.

I would bet you not because I think SkitB will or want SkitB to fail, but because I'm a betting man.

#120 5 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

games are more fun.
Then I will get the joy of playing someone's old game for years to come

my mom used to tell me that i had an answer for everything.

allow me to share the wisdom...

#121 5 years ago
Quoted from rosh:

who have dropped out, and if they had not gotten their money back, this thread would be a lot hotter and Kevin probably would have been strangled at expo.

#122 5 years ago

You have nothing that interests me at all unless you want to give me odds or buck up with your wallet.....

#123 5 years ago

I have no dog in this fight, not interested in Predator at all. But, the fact that the game is completely absent from their website is just bizarre. Something seems odd to me.

#124 5 years ago

When Kevin showed up at the Michigan Expo with the first whitewood prototype a couple (?) years ago I spoke with him in the parking lot afterwards. I specifically asked him if he had any issues with the licensing and he told me "none at at all". He said if was only a few grand and they were very liberal with only requiring him to not deface or degrade the image. There was no mention made of soundbytes etc.

I know that sounds bizarre compared to what JJP said they had to go thru with Hobbit. But thats the extent of the conversation somewhere between 18 and 30 months ago. I dunno if this helps anyone out or not.

#125 5 years ago

I believe Skit-b to be completely sincere in their quest to produce Predator but understaffed, likely underfunded (under charging), lacking critical expertise in key areas and never changed how they do business from their earliest beginnings to now being a million dollar biz (250 x $5000).

Till everyone gets their games this is going to be a bumpy ride.

#126 5 years ago

If you were a scammer would you use a theme with an ip copyright by a major movie company?

13
#127 5 years ago

For crying out loud, whysnow just take any bet man: a game, a project, a hundo, a buck. Betting makes a thread fun.

#128 5 years ago
Quoted from gprotein:

For crying out loud, whysnow just take any bet, man: a game, a project, a hundo, a buck. Betting makes a thread fun.

I was thinking $100 or $200, nothing crazy

-1
#129 5 years ago

Heck... I'll bet my MMPM just to get it outta here...
hmmm... but who should I bet ?

I'll also bet my MMRLE coin mechs to sweeten the deal.... oh wait...

13
#130 5 years ago

1. Kev is not a scammer. He's a hobbyist like us. He wouldn't go to every show displaying Predator if he was a scammer. Anyone who states he is a criminal mastermind is absurd. Seriously, check your meds and stop trying to create false drama.

2. Predator is behind. Yup, sure is. So is (insert game name here besides Stern & DP).

3. Skit B sucks at communication. Let me say it again for dramatic purposes - sucks at communication. Whether you're an owner (especially an owner) of Predator or not it's lacking poorly.

4. Refunds should be honored based on Skit B's stated agreement to owners. Before official production begins, full refunds will be honored. No excuses here - you stated a policy and brand promise to your customer, keep it - period. Otherwise as an indy pin developer you're as bad as the big boys you positioned yourselves against. OP has right to come to boards if you don't reply to his emails. See #3 - this could all be avoided.

5. The only people that need to know when production will start and their game will be delivered are the 250 owners. See #3 unfortunately. Owners hope to one day have a private board to know what's happening.

So what did we learn? Communication could eliminate much of the natives carrying pitchforks jumping from MMr, Hobbit, JPOP and now Predator boards. You pinball makers want to embrace the community and leverage online to position yourselves as different than Stern and sell boutique pins - then act that way after you get our money not just before. You are one of us when you go back to acting like one of us - communicating honestly whether we like the message or not.

Marketing 101 - big or small you can't escape the basics once you have our deposit.

#131 5 years ago
Quoted from SilverBallz:

this to all those new companies on the horizon, including DP and TBL. anyone group of guys can sit around and make one game and get people excited but taking it to the next level is an enormous and expensive task.

This post is spot on accurate.

Actual production is the biggest hurdle by far. We saw how that went with JJP. Things will be no easier for DP and certainly not for the boutiques.

#132 5 years ago
Quoted from the_one:

If thats true I should hear quite soon from Kevin because my games are between 22 and 26. That would be awesome news

Zwei??!! You lucky, lucky b@stard!

#133 5 years ago

Hey whysnow how about a simple wager and the loser donates say a hundo?

-1
#134 5 years ago
Quoted from misfitdart:

Hey whysnow how about a simple wager and the loser donates say a hundo?

Quoted from herbertbsharp:

I was thinking $100 or $200, nothing crazy

What say you whysnow?

#135 5 years ago
Quoted from badbilly27:

4. Refunds should be honored based on Skit B's stated agreement to owners. Before official production begins, full refunds will be honored. No excuses here - you stated a policy and brand promise to your customer, keep it - period. Otherwise as an indy pin developer you're as bad as the big boys you positioned yourselves against. OP has right to come to boards if you don't reply to his emails. See #3 - this could all be avoided.

I tried not to make it a public thing, but I think I'll chime in here. I still have not gotten my deposit back. When it came time to put up or show up, I decided the game wasn't for me in the end. But after a couple emails I still haven't received my money or even a reply from Skit-B. Im being patient because feel like Im a nice guy and I get the pressure these guys are on, but if machines ship before I get my deposit back? I wont be happy.

#136 5 years ago
Quoted from playernumber4:

When Kevin showed up at the Michigan Expo with the first whitewood prototype a couple (?) years ago I spoke with him in the parking lot afterwards. I specifically asked him if he had any issues with the licensing and he told me "none at at all". He said if was only a few grand and they were very liberal with only requiring him to not deface or degrade the image. There was no mention made of soundbytes etc.
I know that sounds bizarre compared to what JJP said they had to go thru with Hobbit. But thats the extent of the conversation somewhere between 18 and 30 months ago. I dunno if this helps anyone out or not.

I would say dealing with the Tolkien estate/New Line/MGM/Wingnut is a completely different kettle of fish

#137 5 years ago

If I had the money I would buy both SkitB "Predator" and Heighway Pinball's "Alien"

#138 5 years ago
Quoted from DrStarkweather:

I tried not to make it a public thing, but I think I'll chime in here. I still have not gotten my deposit back. When it came time to put up or show up, I decided the game wasn't for me in the end. But after a couple emails I still haven't received my money or even a reply from Skit-B. Im being patient because feel like Im a nice guy and I get the pressure these guys are on, but if machines ship before I get my deposit back? I wont be happy.

So you put $250 in, decided no thank you, requested that $250 back, not even a response. How long has it been Drstarkweather?

#139 5 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

You dont scam folks and then drag a game and yourself to a major show. Cmon folks use a bit of common sense.
Enjoyed playing it and really enjoyed talking to him. Of course we never talked build. Just about our kids loving pinball : )

i agree. i think the game looks real good. a little behind schedule, but definately worth waiting for...

#140 5 years ago
Quoted from gprotein:

What say you whysnow?

Betting cash is lame and not much fun.
How about this?

If my Predator is not in my hands by Dec 31st 2014 (I will provide a picture for proof) then I will donate an additional $100 to Pinside over my normal donations.

When Predator is in my hands by Dec 31st 2014 (I will provide a picture for proof) then all 3 of you donate an additional $100 to Pinside over your normal donations. All 3 (misfitdart, herbert and you) of you need to agreed to this since you are the ones wanting to just do a lame cash bet.

#141 5 years ago

That's a good bet

#142 5 years ago
Quoted from DrStarkweather:

I tried not to make it a public thing, but I think I'll chime in here. I still have not gotten my deposit back. When it came time to put up or show up, I decided the game wasn't for me in the end. But after a couple emails I still haven't received my money or even a reply from Skit-B. Im being patient because feel like Im a nice guy and I get the pressure these guys are on, but if machines ship before I get my deposit back? I wont be happy.

Seems like I'm not alone in being stiffed for a refund.

18
#143 5 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Betting cash is lame and not much fun.
How about this?

If my Predator is not in my hands by Dec 31st 2014 (I will provide a picture for proof) then I will donate an additional $100 to Pinside over my normal donations.

When Predator is in my hands by Dec 31st 2014 (I will provide a picture for proof) then all 3 of you donate an additional $100 to Pinside over your normal donations. All 3 (misfitdart, herbert and you) of you need to agreed to this since you are the ones wanting to just do a lame cash bet.

Agreed! Perfect bet, much more fun to donate anyway. But it has to be a normal production machine (non-proto), fully assembled by the skitb team, qc'd and fully functional. No shortcuts . Either way pinside wins. I like it. My $100 is officially on the line.

#144 5 years ago
Quoted from badbilly27:

Owners hope to one day have a private board to know what's happening.

I feel it doesn't matter if we have a private board or not. The information we have gotten in the past has been so inaccurate that I would have a hard time believing it. When the deadline for deposits drew near and the was no real production date given, nobody was in a rush to send their money to SkitB? Kevin then threw out this April production start date(telling us what we wanted to hear to get the $$$$), which in turn worked as the money started rolling in with the help of the infamous Mission Complete video. Obviously they needed the money to get things started which I accept but the way they went about getting it seems a bit shady to me. Its apparent that pinside is largely responsible for the success of Predator sales and to turn your back on it at this stage of the game makes no sense. I wonder when game 2(which I think has some real potential) is getting close to prototype stages if Kevin will re-appear in order to start selling that one to us pinsiders? I realize this is SkitB's first kick at the can and I don't hold it against them but transparency is key when your holding hundreds of thousands of dollars of other peoples money. All that being said; which is strictly my opinion, I have no doubt that I will be playing my Predator Pinball sometime early in 2015(wanna bet 100). I think we have all learned a lot(SkitB included) through this whole process that game #2 will roll out much more smoothly then Pred did which could make the second title more attractive to get on board with.

#145 5 years ago

oh snap...
this is going to be fun.

#146 5 years ago
Quoted from underlord:

So you put $250 in, decided no thank you, requested that $250 back, not even a response. How long has it been Drstarkweather?

Not long enough that Im overly concerned just yet. I honestly think its all just tied to the communication problems they have. No maliciousness or ill intent. Its this stack of emails Im sure they stare at every day and never seem to get a dent in on top of all their other work.

#147 5 years ago

I don't think it's a scam, but I do think they are overwhelmed and have become apathetic about the project compared to when it first started. I requested a refund when they asked for the $3k deposit and got it within a few weeks. Most of what appealed to me just isn't there anymore. The game never really ended up being what they were proposing early on. I believe they had stated there would be four interactive toys and there really ended up being none. The communication fell apart. The machine being brought to shows seemed to have a lot of technical issues that they weren't able to easily overcome. There seems to be something of a distraction technique being used with anything shown over the last year. The focus has all been on mods and add-ons like glo-balls, back alley skulls and now a $200 lighting kit to compensate for the failed UV. Originally, Kevin stated that he was against the idea of any premium add ons, LE's, etc. Now you're pretty much buying an LE by paying more for a bunch of bling. Also, the guy that designed the game isn't even with the company since last fall. Why did he split?

#148 5 years ago

And I was contemplating Putting Dr Who on the line for a Congo / Eating the shipping part is holding me back as that would bother me more than losing Dr who as I am not a fan of the Game so far . Has not grown on me... However glad someone else made the bet . I have no faith that he will have it by Dec 31st with all the holidays in these last 2 months / Good luck to you all

#149 5 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Betting cash is lame and not much fun.
How about this?
If my Predator is not in my hands by Dec 31st 2014 (I will provide a picture for proof) then I will donate an additional $100 to Pinside over my normal donations.
When Predator is in my hands by Dec 31st 2014 (I will provide a picture for proof) then all 3 of you donate an additional $100 to Pinside over your normal donations. All 3 (misfitdart, herbert and you) of you need to agreed to this since you are the ones wanting to just do a lame cash bet.

Damn Hilton, I'm on your side and rooting for you man. You know nobody gonna put a game on the line for a bet, so some cash would be easy picking for you. Good luck and I hope you get yours before the holidays.

#150 5 years ago
Quoted from herbertbsharp:

Whysnow said:
Betting cash is lame and not much fun.
How about this?

If my Predator is not in my hands by Dec 31st 2014 (I will provide a picture for proof) then I will donate an additional $100 to Pinside over my normal donations.

When Predator is in my hands by Dec 31st 2014 (I will provide a picture for proof) then all 3 of you donate an additional $100 to Pinside over your normal donations. All 3 (misfitdart, herbert and you) of you need to agreed to this since you are the ones wanting to just do a lame cash bet.

Agreed! Perfect bet, much more fun to donate anyway. But it has to be a normal production machine (non-proto), fully assembled by the skitb team, qc'd and fully functional. No shortcuts . Either way pinside wins. I like it. My $100 is officially on the line.

BUT you can't challenge others to put there money (or pins) where their mouth is and then stipulate that the other side puts up 3x what you do. So Whysnow, it's gotta be you and me $100 vs $100 and you match the additional $$$ (if any) put in by the other 2 to really be a fair bet.

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