Predator
Skit-B Pinball, 2013This topic is closed.
Jeeze no wonder why people don't hang out here as often as they once did.
Predator a scam, what a freaking joke. So that's why they took time out of their busy ass schedule to go to Expo to promote the game. They weren't promoting game# 2. But yes it was upstairs and is coming together nicely.
So in short, I am looking forward to my machine arriving very soon and yes it is real!
Quoted from DCfoodfreak:If you are saying email vs answer the group that made this all possible than yes I am saying its bullshit!!!
Bullshit !
Well this is kind of redundant since the email would be going out to the group that made it possible. Just because you post on a forum doesn't mean you made predator possible. Foremost Robin website pinside made it possible for Skit-B to promote a new game and mine and 249 other buyers made it possible to start building predator. Shouldnt Kevin's first priority be to the customer? Im sure he knows someone will explain what happened after the email. You are entitled to nothing unless you have money into the game, im sorry this frustrates you but thats like me prying into the MMr thead expecting answers from Rick on why the coin mechs were left off, now he very well may answer me but im not entitled to the information. You'll know something when I know something or if Kevin decides to address pinside. So bullshit? I think not but some of pinside are hard headed bunch so im sure your mind won't change.
Quoted from BlackRabbit:That is odd KC. May I directly quote you from the other Predator thread?
"If you're not in on Predator then it shouldn't matter to you what happens with that pin one way or another"
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/skit-b-predator-apology-lets-wait-for-facts
Lol
Yeah and it shouldn't matter, that doesnt mean I think people should stay away from the threads or not post at all. It just makes absolutely no sense why anyone that has no vested interest in a company gives two shits on why videos of a sold out machine were removed from the web. I never once said its none of your business or not to post in this or any other thread pertaining to Skit-B or predator so please dont twist my words.
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:Just so you know im not of this mindset. I do think that Kevin doesn't owe people that have no skin in Skit-B an explanation about why he pulled down videos or any trace of Predator. People that are considering game 2 can form an opinion by what we have seen from Skit-B thus far. These people can discuss Skit-B and speculate to the hearts content, since that is what a forum is for. When games are delivered people will more than likely decide on Skit-B games and forget about this thread or if the games are never delivered well it won't matter what Skit-B is trying to sell.
Again, a actual game and delivery of said game is not the only determining factor when it comes to customers purchasing games. Customer service matters and I think it's sad that skit-b has let their potential and current customers speculate and guess as much as they have for three days. Say something to stop people from shying away from your company that could have potentially been customers. How can you not see/understand that?
Quoted from inhomearcades:Again, a actual game and delivery of said game is not the only determining factor when it comes to customers purchasing games. Customer service matters and I think it's sad that skit-b has let their potential and current customers speculate and guess as much as they have for three days. Say something to stop people from shying away from your company that could have potentially been customers. How can you not see/understand that?
Thats the thing, if there is a license issue Skit-B may not be able to speak about it. I was told there is an email coming, if there is an explanation on why there is silence ill form my opinion then. Let me make this clear I ABSOLUTELY THINK NO COMMUNICATION IS THE WORST THING SKIT B CAN DO AT THIS TIME. I am paid in full and have 4750 reasons to expect communication and customer sevice. You are preaching to the choir that this is having some sort of affect on future customers. I do believe 250 delivered predators will cure what ails most.
Quoted from Whysnow:I only need to address these 3 "facts"
Fact: Requests for a $250 initial deposit to be refunded were addressed in the original terms. You have ZERO idea of what is going on with the 2 people that claim to have never gotten their 250 refund but either way based on the terms they may not be entitled to it (I think more likely they have not sent communication properly or wires were crossed). This is a non-issue since FAR more people which have requested even larger refunds have gotten them
Fact: You have ZERO powers of observation and your claim that this is the same prototype from the past few years are both completely false and show your complete ignorance on the issue. This further demonstrates your intent is to defame and slander the SkitB company. Without question the game at MPE 2 years ago was different from the game at MGC last year which was different from the game at expo this year. You either did not even look at these games or are just that dense. I mean seriously... the Fucking playfields were completely different. Did you even look at the games during this timeframe? I can probably point out 3 things that even a complete moron would notice if he looked that any of the last 3 prototypes (pretty sure there have been at least 4 prototypes now?; but most noticeable have been changed light and black lights, all changed plastics, tweaked ramps, modified/fine touches on pf art, and for obvious proof of whole new pfs in the past 3 iterations... the holes sizes for the standups right in the middle of the pf have changed.)
Fact: You had better watch what you say when you make false claims that are intended to damage the reputation of a business. You can not say these "facts" without evidence to back them up. You have ZERO proof of SkitB getting a C&D letter and stating such as fact leaves no legal grey area for you to operate. You are very clearly stating a fact that you have no proof of. You have no proof of them not issuing refunds AND you have no proof of them not making multiple prototypes over the past few years.
they own YOU nothing! Read it again, they own you nothing!
Fact: You are out of your element Donny.
Keep it up and I can promise you that you will not like the outcome (i.e. possibly being sued for slander).
Wow. Which Pinside attorney wants to handle my case? lol
I never claimed that Skit-B got a C&D. I have no knowledge of such things and would never say they did. I simply laid out that when (any) company sends (anyone) a C&D letter it would typically include provisions like removing images, logos, information and media related to the property. That's all.
Coincidentally, all images, information and videos having to do with predator pinball have been removed from the skit-b website for no publicly known reason.
Just a coincidence.
***
I genuinely hope that this is all resolved, the games are great and get shipped soon and skit-b has a long and successful history with this hobby. I truly do. Predator working out for everyone is good for pinball, and that's a FACT.
Quoted from StevenP:On the bright side, I doubt the playfield will have licensing issues because that shar-pei-like mutant image in the middle of the pf is anything BUT a 'likeness of Arnold'!
Looks like Arnold Schwarzenneger in caricature...
Figure on Predator pinball playfield:
http://pinballbayarea.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/pred1.jpg
"Dutch" (Arnold) in Predator film:
http://doubleaardvarkmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/arnold_8-1345063994-450-x-675.jpg
Quoted from Jetzxi:Jeeze no wonder why people don't hang out here as often as they once did.
Man, after being here for about two years, the only reason I come back is for the Pred thread. The community is just an endless circlejerk of the same threads about the same stuff. Hype about the new game, complaints about the new game, arguments about the new game, arguments about money, etc. I don't remember a JJP thread asking about them being frauds for all the bitching that went on. This thread is the reason Skit-B doesn't come around anymore. How many other developers you see that are as active on the pinball threads as Skit-B was? You got two guys that did coin-op their whole lives trying to create something, apparently at the cost of their working relationship, and you think they don't want this game to be over and done with and shipped? I think the project started off as a fun thing, and then was realized for how much work had to actually go into it. Plus, being active on Pinside is kind of like the fame overnight thing, but I'm sure the negative comments far outweigh the positive. These guys never asked for the up front money like the other guys until they had to. This game was never really going to gain a huge profit so I can see why some refunds are taking longer than expected. You think they have a refund fund to toss money back to fickle consumers? Most of these companies start or operate under some kind of backing fund. These guys didn't even do a kickstarter; they just started it because an idea that they made in their basement seemed cool and people wanted a piece of it. They never even planned to sell it! Now, to have more money at one time than anyone has ever seen in their life, trying to line up 1000 different things to come together at the right time to get a product out to a mere 250 people, and this is the feedback that they get on the forums? I'd want to disappear from this place, too. /rant
I would like to thank all of my fellow pinsiders that take the time to thumbs up/down. When a thread gets this long, if it ain't green or red, I ain't reading it!!
Quoted from playboywillis:Man, after being here for about two years, the only reason I come back is for the Pred thread. The community is just an endless circlejerk of the same threads about the same stuff. Hype about the new game, complaints about the new game, arguments about the new game, arguments about money, etc. I don't remember a JJP thread asking about them being frauds for all the bitching that went on. This thread is the reason Skit-B doesn't come around anymore. How many other developers you see that are as active on the pinball threads as Skit-B was? You got two guys that did coin-op their whole lives trying to create something, apparently at the cost of their working relationship, and you think they don't want this game to be over and done with and shipped? I think the project started off as a fun thing, and then was realized for how much work had to actually go into it. Plus, being active on Pinside is kind of like the fame overnight thing, but I'm sure the negative comments far outweigh the positive. These guys never asked for the up front money like the other guys until they had to. This game was never really going to gain a huge profit so I can see why some refunds are taking longer than expected. You think they have a refund fund to toss money back to fickle consumers? Most of these companies start or operate under some kind of backing fund. These guys didn't even do a kickstarter; they just started it because an idea that they made in their basement seemed cool and people wanted a piece of it. They never even planned to sell it! Now, to have more money at one time than anyone has ever seen in their life, trying to line up 1000 different things to come together at the right time to get a product out to a mere 250 people, and this is the feedback that they get on the forums? I'd want to disappear from this place, too. /rant
If I asked you a fair question, could you give me a fair answer?
How long did it take you to type and submit that post? The reason I ask is it unfair for Predator pinball followers to expect a similar post from the manufacturer? What does it take...2 or 3 minutes? I back read the old Pradotor threads today. It is not even remotely funny how many times Kevin posted here at the time the $250 payment was due and then again regarding the $3k payment. Why not take the time it took you and I to type a post here and just do it? Yes he does owe Pinside that. Go back read...he used Pinside like a magnet on steel to pull funds in via posting here! Now silent!
Not good, period!
Quoted from BlackRabbit:If I asked you a fair question, could you give me a fair answer?
How long did it take you to type and submit that post? The reason I ask is it unfair for Predator pinball followers to expect a similar post from the manufacturer? What does it take...2 or 3 minutes? I back read the old Pradotor threads today. It is not even remotely funny how many times Kevin posted here at the time the $250 payment was due and then again regarding the $3k payment. Why not take the time it took you and I to type a post here and just do it? Yes he does owe Pinside that. Go back read...he used Pinside like a magnet on steel to pull funds in via posting here! Now silent!
Not good, period!
The email I got from Kevin took less time than your post. If I were him there is NO WAY you would get me to post here. He is communicating with customers, no need to come here for the pitchforks. There are a few guys like a frothing mob. 
FACT - when you state FACT it does not make it true LOL . Too funny!
Quoted from rommy:He is communicating with customers, no need to come here for the pitchforks.
No need to confront the Pinside mob indeed. Especially in that thread which leaves a very sour taste.
Funny how the most active posters in that thread are actually not customers 
Quoted from rommy:The email I got from Kevin took less time than your post. If I were him there is NO WAY you would get me to post here. He is communicating with customers, no need to come here for the pitchforks. There are a few guys like a frothing mob. FACT - when you state FACT it does not make it true LOL . Too funny!
I guess I don't understand. He goes to expo with the pin. I mean jeesh that is way out on the front lines. Why in the world would you go silent months ago and continue now in regards to Pinside? That itself is strange amongst everything else discussed here. I talked to him and his mom back when I was in...straight respectable folks. I do not understand I guess...perhaps I never will
I'm just saying, but some companies solve this problem in an easy fashion, and then there's no speculation and drama. Kevin could solve all this in a similar fashion. Maybe he can't, I dunno.
I'm not in on the game, so I won't make a big deal out of it, but maybe in the future for these smaller shops we might want to look for more of this:
Quoted from jlm33:No need to confront the Pinside mob indeed. Especially in that thread which leaves a very sour taste.
Funny how the most active posters in that thread are actually not customers
I do not understand you and others and this non-customer comments and being in a thread. I day trade and because of that I am in countless threads daily before I even take a position. Pinball, cars, stocks, boats,etc....all the same in cyberspace. Should not matter if you are an owner or not!!!
Quoted from rommy:The email I got from Kevin took less time than your post. If I were him there is NO WAY you would get me to post here. He is communicating with customers, no need to come here for the pitchforks. There are a few guys like a frothing mob. FACT - when you state FACT it does not make it true LOL . Too funny!
We're all potential customers for future games. That's why this Skit-B & Jpop's "only talk to those who have paid" positions are detrimental to their future business. They both seem to have long term goals...that won't happen if all of us "non-customers" think they don't have their shit together.
Just to throw some random info possibly concerning licencing, I live in the UK and their entire youtube channel was "unavailable in my country" so couldn't watch any vids.
Unless it was just youtube being dumb, I now assume the licence deal meant info in the US only?
Just a wild guess...
Quoted from Rarehero:they don't have their shit together
if they need a liaison (whysnow) for keeping a handle on who sent them money, i have serious doubts regarding their attention to detail. they will never see a dime from me.
i don't know what's taking so long, but they better have a damn good excuse. i played the whitewood a few years back at the MPE, and it seemed like it could have been built and shipped the next year. in that same timeframe, i've personally designed and manufactured a product significantly more complex than a pinball machine. if i ran skit-b, the designers would be fired, or at the very least explaining to their customers (investors) why they shouldn't be.
Quoted from Aurich:I'm just saying, but some companies solve this problem in an easy fashion, and then there's no speculation and drama. Kevin could solve all this in a similar fashion. Maybe he can't, I dunno.
I'm not in on the game, so I won't make a big deal out of it, but maybe in the future for these smaller shops we might want to look for more of this:DP-UPL-Press-Release.pdf 28 KB
That's cool to see
Seems like the silence is only going to hurt any other independent that wants to attempt to market a machine.
Looks like people that pre-paid want some reassurance that everything is in order.
A simple statement and a cover letter (similar to the Lebowski letter) should seemly be enough to calm the waters.
But even that will only be temporary. Need I remind anyone of the 'we want our games jersey jack' thread.
I saw the white wood in Detroit last year. SkitB need only start filling some orders to have most of this hype calm down.
It seems obvious there will be no peace until games start arriving at doors.
Otherwise a very entertaining thread.
Quoted from Whysnow:Pred Plastics.jpg 126 KB
whysnow, if your so confident the games getting done on time and ur going to make all this money in December when the game ships to u. Why don't u mail the guy who started this thread his $250... When skit b sends him a check he' ll forward it to u. 
Quoted from lllvjr:whysnow, if your so confident the games getting done on time and ur going to make all this money in December when the game ships to u. Why don't u mail the guy who started this thread his $250... When skit b sends him a check he' ll forward it to u.
What money am I making?????
I already helped the guy out whom started this thread and he is now finally in touch with Kevin. I am hoping he will update after he gets his refund.
Aside from that, there is no way I would trust the OP to mail me a check. Based on his actions here, I would not want to deal with him in any way.
Quoted from rommy:Do you think it would be OK for me to start a thread titled,
Dutch Pinball a scam?
BOP 2.0 a scam?
TBL a scam?
The Hobbit a scam?
Obviously I am inferring NOTHING according to logic in this thread LOL and all questions are OK.
OP will you change the thread title and apologize once you get your refund? Or do you still think implying a well known boutique pinball maker is actually running a Ponzi scheme is fair treatment in this hobby?
I'd say that the OPs scenario justifies the title. Why hasn't he been contacted on the status of his order/refund. OP is a customer...thus customer service is expected.
By the way OP, I think you're making a wise decission...the art on this game looks like a Data East threw up on itself. I'm surprised they sold 250
I can only imagine what you'd be doing and saying if you were in the op's shoes.
I'd be f'ing pissed if I were him too.
Quoted from Whysnow:What money am I making?????
I already helped the guy out whom started this thread and he is now finally in touch with Kevin. I am hoping he will update after he gets his refund.
Aside from that, there is no way I would trust the OP to mail me a check. Based on his actions here, I would not want to deal with him in any way.
Quoted from JimWilks:My first email requesting a refund was sent on October 1. Since then, I've sent more emails to various SkitB email addresses, but all have been completely ignored. Here we stand almost 4 weeks later with no progress at all. To me, this seems like it could be a scam. Hence the thread title.
How soon after the hard deadline email for full deposit did you respond ?
I received an email from Kevin at SkitB last night wondering if I had some problem. This clearly was in response to a pinsider contacting him.
I explained the situation and he then PayPal'd me my refund. Clearly, this would not have happened without Pinside members assistance. No explanation for all my previously ignored emails.
Thanks to Kevin of SkitB for finally coming through.
Thanks to Pinside for your assistance.
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:Well this is kind of redundant since the email would be going out to the group that made it possible. Just because you post on a forum doesn't mean you made Predator possible. Foremost Robin website pinside made it possible for Skit-B to promote a new game and mine and 249 other buyers made it possible to start building Predator. Shouldnt Kevin's first priority be to the customer? Im sure he knows someone will explain what happened after the email. You are entitled to nothing unless you have money into the game, im sorry this frustrates you but thats like me prying into the MMr thead expecting answers from Rick on why the coin mechs were left off, now he very well may answer me but im not entitled to the information. You'll know something when I know something or if Kevin decides to address pinside. So bullshit? I think not but some of pinside are hard headed bunch so im sure your mind won't change.
When there is a recall a manufacturer makes sure it's message gets out by all conventional means. By blanket advertising and pinpoint with snail mail to the buyer. So you're saying it's too much effort to copy and paste his email to a thread here on pinside? Sure. I think it's more about controlling the narrative, whatever that may be. Pinside opens them up to greater scrutiny than a mass email to the buyers.
Mark me as pass on future skitb if they make it beyond this one.
Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:I can only imagine what you'd be doing and saying if you were in the op's shoes.
Well, to start with I would have reached out to others in the community via PM if my email from 3 weeks ago had gone unanswered (I would not have waited 3 weeks if it was a priority). Then I apparently would have never been in his situation.
I offered to forward on his info to Kevin via the email I had gotten correspondence through and BAM, problem resolved in a few hours.
Pretty sad that the OP had a little freak out and started a thread insinuating a pinball company is a scam after really doing nothing besides supposedly sending an email 3 weeks ago.
Even sadder that he is unable to realize that something which was likely his inability to properly communicate caused this whole ordeal and yet he edits the thread title to still include "scam" when he could edit to state his "fact" of skitB contacted via correct email and refund issued immediately.
Quoted from JimWilks:No explanation for all my previously ignored emails.
Thanks to Kevin of SkitB for finally coming through.
Thanks to Pinside for your assistance.
Glad you got your refund. Seems to me like emails were not ignored but rather did not go through or were sent to the wrong address (similar to how you apparently never got the email for payment beyond the intitial $250).
Quoted from maddog14:I just can't wait for the first production pin to ship.
Don't worry these guys will think of something else to complain about!
Quoted from Whysnow:I offered to forward on his info to Kevin via the email I had gotten correspondence through and BAM, problem resolved in a few hours..
You certainly had a Strong Hand in this stories happy ending..... Kudos 
Quoted from Whysnow:Well, to start with I would have reached out to others in the community via PM if my email from 3 weeks ago had gone unanswered (I would not have waited 3 weeks if it was a priority). Then I apparently would have never been in his situation.
I offered to forward on his info to Kevin via the email I had gotten correspondence through and BAM, problem resolved in a few hours.
Pretty sad that the OP had a little freak out and started a thread insinuating a pinball company is a scam after really doing nothing besides supposedly sending an email 3 weeks ago.
Even sadder that he is unable to realize that something which was likely his inability to properly communicate caused this whole ordeal and yet he edits the thread title to still include "scam" when he could edit to state his "fact" of skitB contacted via correct email and refund issued immediately.
My goodness. Blame shift? Did you just blame O.P. for everything? Oh my....I guess I should have expected that based on your posting style
Quoted from Whysnow:I was just told that hasselcastle is actually on the waitlist...
That explains alot.
Your nuts.
I love the theme, but to me it looks poorly executed. I've seen and played there one and only prototype at the show and to me it looks much better than probably anything I could do. It clearly to me has a look and feel of a amaturely made pinball machine. It looks and feels like it was made in a basement. From the artwork that looks like a high school students art project to the clunky/non flow of gameplay....I'm out.
I shouldnt be shunned for speaking my mind on the title because all 250 are sold right?
Quoted from Whysnow:Well, to start with I would have reached out to others in the community via PM if my email from 3 weeks ago had gone unanswered (I would not have waited 3 weeks if it was a priority). Then I apparently would have never been in his situation.
I offered to forward on his info to Kevin via the email I had gotten correspondence through and BAM, problem resolved in a few hours.
Pretty sad that the OP had a little freak out and started a thread insinuating a pinball company is a scam after really doing nothing besides supposedly sending an email 3 weeks ago.
Even sadder that he is unable to realize that something which was likely his inability to properly communicate caused this whole ordeal and yet he edits the thread title to still include "scam" when he could edit to state his "fact" of skitB contacted via correct email and refund issued immediately.
No need to rub salt in the open wound.
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