This one recently sold on ebay: ebay.com link: 1932 Genco Jiggers Jr Pinball Game

The big red flag is that it is missing the coin slide so you have to reach inside to manually reset it. And no playfield glass but that can be rectified for $30 at the local glass shop.
The colours are bright but there is a lot of track wear.
It's also one of the numerous Goofy ripoffs that came out, so a nice and complete one probably wouldn't go for more than $300-400.

Controversial opinion, let's rank Rock-ola games:
World's Series > Army Navy > Jigsaw

I recently got a PAMCO Contact (Master) and noticed that a previous owner had made an incision in the sliding under-plate that keeps the balls on the playfield, and which is pushed in to reset the game.
They had carved out the "OUT" hole at the bottom, so that while playing any ball that makes it to the bottom is returned to the shooter lane, just like in a bingo machine.

A nightmare for operators, sure, but in a home environment I found it actually makes the game even more. It let's you land all 10 balls into pockets. And for games with playfield advances via a trigger hole (like Contact, Signal, etc) it provides more action that way.

I don't see myself cutting out that hole in any other games, but I have decided to leave the Contact Master as-is and not fully patch up that bottom plate.

considering the obscurity of that title, a remake would be such a blessing to the hobby!

I think there are def different price tiers of pre-war games. Rock-Ola, unless I'm wildly off, are the most collectible and fetch the most consistent amounts.
lower-tier tends to be the games that are plunger only and with static playfields, like Jiggers. (IMHO obviously)

*ahem*
there are still plenty of women collecting!

I have a Signal Jr. and two of the solenoids are not working. Connections all seem good, but does anyone have any experience working with these super old solenoids? should I open them up and respin the wiring and check for breaks?
Would there be a workable replacement?

Two Signals getting set up

20180921_123200 (resized).jpg

Marco sells steel balls in most of the sizes you would ever want
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/BALL-STEEL?VIEW_SIZE=60&view=card&sortOrder=SortProductField:totalTimesViewed

Marbles are lighter and change the game play but are a fun alternative https://www.moonmarble.com/c-83-opaque-game-marbles-all-sizes.aspx

cool find! Can you post a better picture of the game's backbox? IPDB could sure use your photos too, btw https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=3465&picno=44569&zoom=1

Seems to be a great gameplay concept: top lane determines Dealer's Hand (center rollover is dealer goes bust) then hole on the playfield is your hand.
If you beat the dealer, you get the payout on the odds wheel relating to what hole you used to defeat the dealer!

Top'Em is one damn cool payout machine. Love the multiple dynamic play aspects of the changing odds AND the "house hand to beat" off the plunge.

photo of a GOLD COAST from an Allentown thread https://images.pinside.com/a/3b/a3b919413cd28739a980f56901dbb1757ce6186c/resized/large/a3b919413cd28739a980f56901dbb1757ce6186c.jpeg

What's the machine next to it? who's there right now?

Thanks to TopMoose, I'm now the happy owner of his old Cloverleaf. Thanks for the trade!

cloverleaf (resized).jpg

yay, glad you like it! Any recommendation for the tape marks on the cloverleaf lockdown bar? It unfortunately pulled a bit of the veneer when I took the tape off.

ok everyone, OFFICIAL* NEW RULES FOR CLOVERLEAF!
main rule change: only the first ball into any one pocket scores.
This changes the game play up and forces you to search for shots you have not yet hit.
The 1000 pocket is fairly reliable and easy. hit it once? 1000. Hit it again? ZERO for that ball.
Have you already hit 2 pockets in the same area? You probably want to aim elsewhere or odds are you're wasting your shot.

TopMoose included a green ball and a red ball. I am just using a single green ball in the mix, which since it's CLOVERLEAF, will be the one ball that scores double.
Get the green ball into a pocket that already has a ball? Zero x 2 is still zero.
( *by the power vested in me )

I always put the Competition ROMs in my games.

oh hey there is a thread just for Genco owners: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/genco-owners-club

Welcome! Now, about incorporating Top 'Em into your multi-singleball machine...

hey pre-war crew, anyone know when the first pinball machine had a scoring motor? You know, the kind of motor with a timing diagram?
What was the first coin-op with one? (I'm assuming some kind of early slot?)

I'm going to be hosting a "pinhistory" booth at the Ottawa show in September, anyone here want to join me?
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/opgs-ottawa-pinball-amp-gameroom-show-2019-sep-21-22

Would love to have more early machines. Also looking for 40s and 50s machines.
more details: https://www.maaca.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25597

*high-five*

Pre-war fans!!!!
Don't miss the ultimate prewar for-sale posting: https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/103398
the famous "Rock-ola trifecta" lineup all at once, except all restored by master restorer Mike Hasanov.
If you don't know Hasanov's work, he's like HEP, except for pre-wars and other obscure coin-op machines. his youtube: https://www.youtube.com/user/efalsst23/videos

I have never seen one before but I have so many questions! Please please please document this heavily and get it all up on IPDB?
Why is there a credit counter if you just win a "free game"?
What are the other shapes/colours on the backglass? Just decoration or do they have bulbs behind them and indicate things?
Does each ball keep going until it lands in a hole?

the holes light up these pairs:
1 6
1 9
2 10
2 5
8 5
1 7
8 3
9 3
2 4
9 8

Occurence chart:
1: 3
2: 3
3: 2
4: 1
5: 2
6: 1
7: 1
8: 3
9: 3
10: 1

so in your six sots there are 4 shots you MUST hit to win the game, as they only have one hole for that number:
1 6
2 10
1 7
2 4

And that gives you 1, 2, 4, 6, 7, 10. So you need 3, 5, 8, 9, which you need to make out the remaining two shots:
1 9
2 5
8 5
8 3
9 3
9 8

But the only combination that works is 8 5 and 9 3.

So in order to win this game you MUST get all 6 balls into these 6 holes:
1 6
2 10
1 7
2 4
8 5
9 3

If you get a ball into ANY of these 4 holes, you cannot win:
1 9
2 5
8 3
9 8

Absolutely devious.
Assuming even odds on all holes:
6/10 * 5/9 * 4/8 * 3/7 * 2/6 * 1/5
= 0.004761905
= 0.476 % chances of winning
am I doing the math right?

Please let me know when you start documenting it! Looking forward to learning from your journey

Please do a video of Par Golf if you can!

I just quoted it over here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/%e2%97%8bsome-flipperless-just-came-up-on-cl-e-bay%e2%97%8b/page/16#post-5997461

here is the original post I assume you're talking about: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/%e2%97%8bsome-flipperless-just-came-up-on-cl-e-bay%e2%97%8b/page/14#post-4881341

I'm not sure what it's worth but if it's still for sale this long later, it probably means $750 obo was too much.
I'm a bit surprised, as complete + working payout pins are often more collectible than other late 30s pins.
If it was anywhere near me I'd immediately toss a $400 USD offer as it looks pretty good and would make a wonderful winter project.

wow, thanks Nate! and it's great news to know you'll still be selling parts

these are great little videos. Will there be more?

it's post-war put I love this Hot-Rods video you posted. It's an obscure gambling game so it's a blessing to have an explainer video like this.

Subscribed!

one thing that is always great is just like 5 minute dedicated gameplay videos of really obscure and rare stuff. Like I would love to see 5 minutes of Hot Rods gameplay, even if just a gambling machine.
With the pre-50s stuff, and even some 60s, there is minimal documentation online, especially little well-recorded video.

(yes yes one day I'll follow my own advice and have a friend over and record/upload gameplay videos of my own stuff...)

in case anyone here didn't see it, I'm in the market for a 19th century folding bagatelle table,
and a nice Redgrave parlor bagatelle toy.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/wtb-19th-century-redgrave-bagatelle

I have been making posts about various pre-pinball game and bagatelle variants:
http://pinballnovice.blogspot.com/2021/07/bagatelle-notes.html
http://pinballnovice.blogspot.com/2021/07/bagatelle-notes-carombolette-slanted.html
http://pinballnovice.blogspot.com/2021/07/a-note-on-bar-billiards.html
http://pinballnovice.blogspot.com/2021/08/bagatelle-notes-slanted-pin-tables.html
http://pinballnovice.blogspot.com/2021/09/bagatelle-notes-toupie-hollandaise.html

1938 Bally Operator collections book + data available for download
https://pinballnovice.blogspot.com/2021/10/1938-bally-operator-collections-book.html

one thing for payout pins is: does it payout perfectly?
Most electric flipperless pins of that era go for $100-$400 depending on condition.
If it's a payout pin and it's complete and works, maybe up to $700 except for a few examples which go for more. But if it doesn't pay out, you're looking at maybe $200 max as it's a major project

thanks for the heads-up! I love watching people spend their money on crazy shit
Here are links to each day:
https://www.auctionzip.com/auction-catalog/Day-1-Annual-Fall-Classic_GZREHZ99W2/
https://www.auctionzip.com/auction-catalog/Day-2-Annual-Fall-Classic_2P5VSMEMOB/
https://www.auctionzip.com/auction-catalog/Day-3-Annual-Fall-Classic_RA23KFPT19/
someone bump this in a few days and lets see what prizes were realized

Chicago Express is a great looking game but I find the gameplay design quite lacking, so it's a pass from me.
https://www.auctionzip.com/auction-lot/chicago-express-coin-op-pinball-game-166010477_D4F40269CB

they have a prewar-style Kicker Catcher there, which is nice to see (full manikin) https://www.auctionzip.com/auction-lot/1930s-coin-op-kicker-catcher-football-skill-game-_654475AA78

a bunch of shooting games like https://www.auctionzip.com/auction-lot/shoot-the-duck-coin-op-gum-vender-165908456a_B4B4EEB80B

There's lot of really cooll random stuff to check:
RKO Pictures spotlight https://www.auctionzip.com/auction-lot/rko-pictures-movie-studio-light-166140640_3BC4BD8B67
scrap metal cowboy sculptures! https://www.auctionzip.com/auction-lot/scrap-metal-art-cowboy-3-165795323_6614B16997
an entire 1932 carousel! https://www.auctionzip.com/auction-lot/1932-spillman-carousel-166175867_2F34A7F940
very cool weighing machine https://www.auctionzip.com/auction-lot/voland-precision-laboratory-apparatus-165795317_73D4760B78
a ferris wheel seat? https://www.auctionzip.com/auction-lot/ferris-wheel-amusement-park-ride-seat-165795311_CC44F65AE4
imagine having the room for stuff like a giant wheel? https://www.auctionzip.com/auction-lot/evans-big-six-wheel-165795300_0D44B23A34
1945 movie jukebox! https://www.auctionzip.com/auction-lot/mills-1945-sono-vision-movie-jukebox-165794949_9794A879E3
a high-striker! https://www.auctionzip.com/auction-lot/vintage-high-striker-game-166297398_5884E9CB6D
great radio selection but I love these the most https://www.auctionzip.com/auction-lot/lot-of-2-hallicrafters-radios-165795549_CA74067B8A

I have one of these: https://www.auctionzip.com/auction-lot/northwestern-morris-il-5-cent-gumball-machine-165_A014A9FA3A

oh wow that auction was a bust for the sellers. So many unsold items, and lots of sold stuff went for the lowest possible bid....

when I posted that the prices weren't all updated. It looked like some were, but it was sketchy. I now know better than trust those sites for live updates. Things weren't nearly as dire as I first thought
But still, good price on Chicago Express

does anyone know the whereabouts of a square pinball machine called The Maple Leaf? https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=5321&picno=38141
I know the square games were all duds, I just want this one because of the Canada connection

I was finally able to cross the border and picked up these items.
20211130_142757 (resized).jpg
technically not all pre-war. 1960s, 1950s, and then the other two are pre-war.
The Novomat project is for sale if you're near me, I don't have time for it right now. And that square one will be for sale when I find The Maple Leaf. I figure if I'm going to have a square game, I want to get the lone Canadian one.

Good to have you back up! thanks for your help in keeping so many machines alive.

It's not pinball, but I have an article up on Japanese Rolling Ball that people here might like

http://nikkeivoice.ca/arcade-origins-in-the-japanese-rolling-ball-how-tamakorogashi-shaped-the-world-of-modern-gaming/

http://pinballnovice.blogspot.com/2022/01/nikkei-voice-article-on-tamakorogashi.html

sharing a trove of prewar carnival/arcade photographs: http://pinballnovice.blogspot.com/2022/01/photographs-from-collection-of-james-r.html
no pinball but ah well still really cool

yes that's a fabulous image! Thank you for thinking of me. That photo is in the full body of research, under 1910 http://pinballnovice.blogspot.com/2021/07/tamakorogashi-japanese-roll-ball.html
What a great service that shorpy site is, right? Some really amazing photos in high res. I love to see the old American streetscapes and with the high res you can zoom in on some and read all the signs.

a quick update on PRE-prewar front...
http://pinballnovice.blogspot.com/2022/01/9-hole-bagatelle.html

pasted_image (resized).png

http://pinballnovice.blogspot.com/2022/01/assembling-bite-sized-bagatelles.html

If you ever find a rolling ball table, like the one on the right, that has lineage that can be traced back to America (or Japan,) please alert me immediately! Most of them that exist are from around France, because it became a popular fair game there.

tangent: in many parts of Europe there are pockets of vibrant enthusiasm for many of the old-timey table games. It's pretty delightful.
some places in England still have 9-hole bagatelle leagues. Bar billiards tournaments. Spinning top / Toupie Hollandaise conventions! Many variants of table skittles games. And even Japanese Rolling Ball, though there they typically call it Billard Japonais.
One of the common factors is that many of the folksy old games that still have a following can all be built by woodworkers without too much difficulty. Billiards tables obviously take a lot more craftsmanship and varied components (rubber, felt,) but all of the ones tend to be primarily wood games. You have some wood and a few handy workers, your town can have a carnival games lineup at the local fair.

Very cool find, what are the dimensions of this?
It seems way larger than most of the other bagatelles of the time. Like, almost to a detriment? There's TOO MUCH on the playfield! lol
I'm interested in buying a nice 19th century bagatelle. If yours was a normal sized one (like PlanetExpress posted examples of) I'd send you an offer but it's probably too much to ship with that size.
If you ever made it to Canada or Norther NY State I'd be interested!

While many were certainly retrofitted with plungers, why do you think this one had a plunger added later?

thanks for the vids, great little collection. I might snag an ABT gun game some day, but it'd have to be right machine at the right time at the right price. Still, there's plenty enough of 'em so you never know.

Which ones have moving targets? I aways figured I'd go for one of the more novel ones since I'll probably only ever have one. But I'd hope to find one fully serviced and pay up for that.

if you were in my town I'd be mighty tempted by that Grand Canyon. Very cool.

Is the Solo supposed to have playfield spring plates? Does it payout accurately? Was it hard to work on an early payout like that?

One note about marbles: they can have wild tolerances. Buy a bunch and check for wobbly shapes and set those aside. Then grab a micrometer and try and find a set with a specific range.

Don't forget a 2nd colour for the double value ball!

Beautiful game! I hope someone snaps it up. What a looker.
Of course I'll admit I'm dying to know which of the curious obscure games on your wishlist you're funding
Please let us know once it's secured.

That artwork is really cool. In my head, I hear this in a Rollergames announcer voice: "shoot the onion!"

love it

the under-side photo of the Army Navy is just DREAMY.
What a glorious testament to mechanical design. So so SO many lazy ass game designs in the same years by companies trying to make a fast buck and Rock-ola blesses the world with THAT!

Can you please upload some game video to youtube? I'd love to see more. Love this stuff.

Congrats on the Safety Zone and welcome to life in the slow lane where most problems can be solved with some wood glue, clamps, and a Dremel.

Cloverleaf is one of those games with THE LOOK, and it is rarer than other looping playfields like the ever popular Five Star Final.
My copy is regular, but there was a variant payout model as well but I've never seen one of those up close irl so I don't know how they work. To make games like this more lively and better for competition I like making up extra rules. Like for Cloverleaf, I only count the first ball in any scoring hole, so if you hit the same one that ball is worth zero.

Another cool variant is playing by Price Is Right Rules, where players have to get as close to an arbitrary total by using X number of balls, without going over.

look at the CURVES on that one! what a look

Everything about this makes me happy.

Love to see a one ball payout game! Good luck with the project and I hope you get it going.

nah, indigenous stereotypes are a dime-a-dozen in pinball, especially 30s-60s.

and yeah like 50% of the value of that table is wrapped up in the payout mech. Is the payout mech complete but not working? Probably 40% less value. Is the payout mech missing? Maybe 70% less value.

Very lovely, especially that Signal!

I consider this to be a trade stimulator. There's no real game interaction, it just serves to present a randomized outcome of the coloured marbles.

Is there a standard method for dealing with cloudy varnish on wood? Anyone have a recommended YouTube tutorial perhaps?