Five Star Final Jr.
Gottlieb, 1932
American Beauty
Daval, 1934
Army Navy
Rockola, 1935
Ballyhoo
Bally, 1932
Big League
Genco, 1940
Eureka
Bally, 1938
Fleet Jr
Bally, 1934
Fleet Sr.
Bally, 1934You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider Jappie.
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Here's 3 video's I've recently produced for the Dutch Pinball Museum. They're part of a series we're making to educate the general public about the history of pinball. Thought you guys might like them. If you do, please consider to give them a 'thumbs up' on Youtube. Enjoy!
Quoted from cait001:these are great little videos. Will there be more?
Quoted from cait001:it's post-war put I love this Hot-Rods video you posted. It's an obscure gambling game so it's a blessing to have an explainer video like this.
Subscribed!
I'm glad to hear you like the videos! Thanks much for the subscription. I really appreciate that.
And: yes, there will definitely be more! Don't expect new content daily, but our plan is definitely to make more educational vids.
I like to believe I ran into something quite special today. A beautiful Bally Roundup, from 1936. It's in great shape for a machine from this vintage. It also seems to be semi-complete: all that seems to be missing is the playfield glass, the battery pack (these early EM machines ran on batteries, believe it or not) and the shooter housing.
I have still to examine it better, but it's a very interesting machine that seems to have two seperate payout systems.
In time, I would like to make the machine and the payout systems work. For power, I'm thinking using a modern transformer might be the best idea. Does anybody happen to know the voltage that Bally's from this vintage are supposed to run on? Also, if anybody has or knows a shooter housing for one of these for sale, please let me know!
I could not find anything online but a few Billboard and Coin Machine Journal ads on ipdb.org. So if anybody has any information about this generation of Bally's, or this specific machine, please share!
Roundup 12 (resized).jpgRoundup 14 (resized).jpgRoundup 05 (resized).jpgRoundup 10 (resized).jpgRoundup 06 (resized).jpgRoundup 11 (resized).jpgRoundup 07 (resized).jpgRoundup 13 (resized).jpgRoundup 08 (resized).jpgRoundup 09 (resized).jpgQuoted from Biffbar:Roundup layout looks like the Bally Jumbo one ball. Scores the same except for the one 10 point hole having a mystery payout. Very cool & love the artwork on it. Can see that someone removed pins to make it easier to avoid the upper "out" hole. Probably not the operator, who would be more likely to add pins where a player wouldn't want them.
Wow, you are right! My 1936 Bally Roundup is a 1935 Bally Jumbo with added features and new artwork. Excellent detective work, thank you!
Now I at least have some more info on the machine's background and how it is supposed to work. The schematics for Jumbo are even on ipdb.
Quoted from Biffbar:6 volts if it is like Jumbo, which used four large cylindrical single cell batteries in series. Your light bulb #'s, if any, could provide a clue.
Well it is a remake of Jumbo, playfield wise. With some extra features added, including two lamps. They both say something different. I'm not quite sure what to make of it.
I would guess the one in the first picture says 6v, .33A. Not so sure about the one in the second picture. 2w, .3A? Or 8w, .3A, maybe?
What do you guys think?
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Quoted from baldtwit:the pacific pinball museum has a few machines from the 1930's in their warehouse I can look in if a 6V supply doesn't work.
That would be great, I will let you know if it works or not. However, it would specifically need to be one of the larger Bally payout models that were made around 1935-1936. Like Jumbo, Prospector, Round Up or Ace.
Quoted from baldtwit:they also have a hot-rods in the public museum, but it's not working. I guess I should fix it so people can play it ... do you have the schematic for it or is it not really needed?
I'd say it's definitely worth it to get it playing. Hot-Rods is a very good example of the approach Bally was taking with pinball at that time: while Gottlieb really wanted to create games of skill, Bally was very much still on the gambling path.
I don't think the Dutch Pinball Museum (the owner of the Hot-Rods in my video) has the schematics for theirs, but it should be quite straightforward. You can always send me a PM if you have a question on how it's supposed to work.
Quoted from baldtwit:no luck on the power supply. I just noticed you're looking for the shooter cover. I'll rummage again on monday. I think the same cover was used on some one-ball games and there's a couple parts one-ball playfields in the warehouse.
Thank you for checking! Much appreciated.
It would be amazing if you had a fitting shooter cover laying around. You are right: a shooter cover from another Bally One Ball game should fit, as long as it's the type that used the larger 1" balls. It should look like this (photo from ipdb):
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Again, many thanks for your help!
Quoted from baldtwit:This look right? Bally bumper playfield
It's a standard 1-1/16". Pinball in the pic.
You need the metal plate for the left side of runway the ball hits when it ejects from lifter?
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Yes, that's it! Amazing. I have sent you a PM.
Quoted from arcademan1:Hey we just got this Bally golden wheel in on trade. Looks fantastic and the owner said that they always had it and he’s 70 now
It partially works so I need to clean some assembly’s
What’s something like this worth. Very little info that I can find
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What a beauty. I would probably buy this if it wasn't on the other end of the world. Best of luck selling it and thanks for the pictures!
Just drove back home from the Dutch Pinball Museum with a friend and this is what he had in his trunk. An unseen beauty: Exhibit's 1940 Wings.
Gotta love the 'futuristic' artwork on this backglass. Planes on rooftops ftw. And I'm quite sure those boats will not fit underneath that bridge! 
Quoted from MarkG:Please send some good photos to IPDB (https://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=2790)
Yes, that will definitely be done. I won't post these there though: My friend prefers to add his own pictures there himself.
Quoted from TopMoose:And video once it’s set up and working!
Who knows! Genco's Big League is up for that first, though. I'll post it here when it's ready.
IMG-20211203-WA0041 (resized).jpegI just released a new video for everybody to enjoy, featuring Exhibit's 1940 Wings. A machine that was recently unearthed by a friend of mine. Really interesting layout and gameplay. Enjoy!
And another one! This time I've dissected the ruleset of my 1940 Genco Big League. Which was easier said then done. But... I'm quite happy with the result. Hope you people enjoy the video.
Picked up this Rock-Ola Wings for €155 yesterday. Bit of a basket case, eh... But: the spinning part of the playfield works and the important stuff seems to be mostly there.
The plan is to make it presentable and of course fully working. Looks like the wood underneath that yellow is too far gone to go back to bare wood and clear laquer. So I might just fix up the cabinet a bit and paint it black.
We'll see. Lots of projects in line before this one, so it'll take a while before I even start working on it. It's good to see more Wings owners on here.
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Quoted from PlanetExpress:Congrats on the pickup!
Miguel351 did an awesome job recreating the apron labels: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pre-war-club-1930-1939/page/9#post-7654853
PlanetExpress Thanks for the heads up!
Miguel351 Would you be so kind to make a new link to those apron labels for Rock-Ola's Wings you created? It seems the existing Dropbox links are out of date. Thanks very much in advance!
Quoted from Miguel351:It was a pair of files for PlanetExpress to use with his Cricut machine. One file was all the text, the other was the outline to be cut on the Cricut. If you have a Cricut machine, or other similar plotter/cutter type device, I can put those files back up. If you don't, I can put the outlines back on the artwork file and it'd just be up to you to cut them out just on the inside of the outline I'll put on there.
Let me know which way you want it, and I'll upload them.
Miguel351 Thanks so much for your help
I don't have a Cricut machine (I'll be honest: I had to look up what it is). However, they do seem handy for the hobby. I wouldn't mind having those files in case I ever buy one. For now, having the artwork and outlines in one file would be amazing.
On another note: does anyone know what size balls Wings uses? And are they supposed to be metal, ceramic or something else?
Quoted from PlanetExpress:Wings should use glass marbles of about 22mm or 7/8”. Here is what I’m using: https://www.moonmarble.com/p-2482-lustered-blue-cobbles.aspx
Thank you! I ordered a set of white 22mm marbles. Think those will stand out on that dark playfield.
Quoted from Miguel351:I used mine to make stencils for painting over insert edges on my Spirit of 76. I also used it to cut custom shaped pieces of mylar to protect certain areas that I repainted on it, too. Worked perfectly for both purposes.
I've attached the apron art for Wings to this post. Couple bits of instruction for it:
1) Be sure to print it at 100% scale. This can be done in the print dialog box that pops up after you tell whatever program to print.
2) I added a slight bit more space inside the outline to allow you more room to cut inside of it to be sure you don't have any of the magenta left on the pieces you end up with. This means that if you cut right on the edge of the magenta, you'll have plenty of room to trim them down further if you need to for whatever reason(like if your apron area is smaller that other Wings machines). I know there were more variances on these pre-war machines, so having a little extra leeway on something like this is helpful.
3) This should be obvious, but use a straight-edge when cutting the straight sides, and look to use something hard sided that has roughly the same curve as the inside sweep of these to cut it. If you have to make a wood block with that curve on it to use as your guide, that'd be understandable and would work really well. I personally suck at free-handing this kind of stuff, so I do what I can to outsmart myself.
4) These should be printed on some sort of silver colored, or metallic, sticker paper to be correct. But if you can only find silver paper, you can always just use some craft-type spray adhesive on them and they should stick fairly well.
If you have any other questions, or whatever, let me know and good luck!
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Amazing! Thanks a bunch
Quoted from TopMoose:Showing off my brother's handiwork - he made this stand for my 1933 Broadway, based on my design.
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Nice work!
Off topic: I dig the legs on that Spectrum too!
Hi people, this World Series popped up for sale locally.
Legs, door and backglass are missing. Coin pusher seems broken.
Seller says the cabinet is solid and that the inside looks to be complete. I assume the game is not working.
I might go check it out. Anything specific to look for? What would you say is a fair price for this?
IMG_20230927_203813 (resized).jpgIMG_20230927_203838 (resized).jpgIMG_20230927_203952 (resized).jpgIMG_20230927_204554 (resized).jpgIMG_20230927_204618 (resized).jpgIMG_20230927_204653 (resized).jpgIMG_20230927_204722 (resized).jpgQuoted from WalrusPin:It's not in bad shape overall - what is the seller asking as a starting point?
Quoted from way2wyrd:Looks like a good one and looks like its complete
Look for broken metal parts inside the cab. If the spider mount is broken youre screwed
Legs, Door, Backsplash and a ton of other stuff is available on http://buckwerx.com/
Price varies. Id drop 500 on this in an instant. Anything over 700 is too much IMHO with the missing pieces
--Jeff
www.historyofpinball.org
Thank you Jeff! What is the 'spider mount'? Is it often broken?
Quoted from Jappie:Hi people, this World Series popped up for sale locally.
Legs, door and backglass are missing. Coin pusher seems broken.
Seller says the cabinet is solid and that the inside looks to be complete. I assume the game is not working.
I might go check it out. Anything specific to look for? What would you say is a fair price for this? [quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Update: brought her home today. Very happy! You never run into these in Europe.
The seller would not budge on his price of €750 (about $794). However, the machine is in nice original condition. All key mechanisms seem original, intact and not tampered with. That fucked up coin slider being the exception.
The playfield has quite some grime on it, but I got the feeling it will clean up nicely.
So yeah. That's one more project in line. As if I didn't have enough of those to begin with. 
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Quoted from Nate:Hi Jappie,
You have one of the rare games that has a serial number sticker on the ball return casting.
Look on the bottom of the cabinet (plywood side) and you should see a five digit serial number written with a pencil in large numerals. With any luck, it matches the number on the sticker. Seems like that would make a game worth more.
Note to all WS collectors and and collectors to be: I have a pretty good process for repairing broken spider castings, which I have done a dozen times. If your spider casting is broken, PM me and we can set up a time to discuss how you can surgically repair it. You need all of the parts from the broken casting, a particular type of 3M epoxy, and some method of cutting and bending thin sheet metal--but it can be done at home.
-Nate
That is so cool! Thanks for pointing that out @Nate. Seems it's a match: 14605. I'm not surprised as the game doesn't look to have been screwed around with.
Once I've examined the game properly, I will be in touch with you to make the game complete (legs, coin door, marquee, et cetera). Really hoping you (or somebody in this group) can help me with a good coin slide as well.
I think the spider casting on my game is in good shape, but I'll have to take a closer look to be 100% certain. The Base Disk spins whenever I bring a ball to the shooter lane, so it seems something isn't sitting quite right.
To be continued...
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Quoted from mda78666:Hey everyone! Noob here! I recently purchased this 1937 Bally Eureka, and I am excited to begin the restoration process. I am relying on an electrical engineer friend for guidance, but mostly relying on information I can find on the internet.
The gentleman I bought it from said it worked when he bought it 5 years ago. The wiring all looks pretty solid so I was going to start with getting a new 6v power supply, and go from there. I am still looking for schematics for this machine if anyone has some I would appreciate it!
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Cool machine, congrats!
The projector in the backbox is neat. Same one that Evans' Ten Strike uses.
Your machine has a conveyor belt for coins. It was used to check if any slugs were used in past games. So does my 1936 Bally Roundup. Seems yours is missing the belt itself. I had the same issue and MacGyvered a new one out of an inner tube for a bicycle. Works well.
Eureka doesn't seem to have a Pinside entry yet. You can apply for one here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pre-war-games-that-aren-t-on-pinside
Quoted from Wmsfan-GAP:One more-
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Unique game! One of the first pinball games where the player had a significant amount of control.
Quoted from justincasekazoo:American Beauty IS a beauty. Very nice! I've always been curious about the "catapult." Is it simply mechanical, or electro-mechanical?
It's definitely pleasing to the eye. I love the way it keeps score with that 'clock' in the middle. Very unique, very chique.
The Catapult is a very early example of a kickout hole. It's powered by a cute small coil. A ball should fall in the Catapult first. If, after that, another ball falls in the center 400 hole, the Catapult launches the captive ball into the Mystery Score hole. Not sure if it actually scores a random or a set amount of points.
The cabinet on my game is very sturdy, but also quite battered. I found a paint that seems to match the original bluish black well. And I hope to be able to restore the veneer panels to at least a bit of their former glory.
My plan is to document this restoration well and create a video once it's done.
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Quoted from TiltingT:Not much information out there for this one but I have a lead on this game "Red Man" but i wouldn't even know what to offer..he said he has the legs for it as well.. but saw th9s club amd thought I would ask you guys and share the pics at the very least you cam see it.. I know these aren't the best pictured the owner took them
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Jennings Red Man. Interesting payout machine.
https://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=1934
Gotta love that cabinet woodwork!
I can't help you with a ballpark value, but I can tell you the value depends on how complete it is. Is the payout mech still there, for instance?
Quoted from justincasekazoo:Oh, look at that! Thank you for satisfying my curiosity.
I seem to remember in Dick Bueschel's Encyclopedia of Pinball that there was some reference to the ball kicker in the trade literature at the time. Everyone was trying to lay claim to the "kicker" idea because it had been patented. (Or, if it hadn't been patented yet, it would be.) I'm going to go find this passage so I can get it right...
Daval's game immediately following American Beauty was Big Bertha, another game with a kicker to fire balls uphill.
Here's what Bueschel writes:"Realizing that Bally was ahead of them, and the original game maker [of a game with kickers that Bally was copying, probably Shyvers's Cannon Fire] was ahead of Bally, Daval made no attempt to patent Big Bertha. Instead, they opted to establish a link between their cannon games and the latest model of American Beauty, suggesting that they owned prior art on the basis that one game led to the other. 'The Daval Manufacturing Company will announce in a few days their new catapult type machine Big Bertha on which they have been experimenting for several months. The catapult idea first appeared on the Daval American Beauty machine. A. S. Douglis [president of Daval] showed The Coin Machine Journal plans for a game of this type several months ago and after considerable experimentation and development the finished product will now appear as a battlefield game with reproduction of heavy duty firing equipment which will project the balls counterwise to the pitch of the machine.'
"In making the desired connection, they made the strong point that the preceding Daval game shot balls uphill. 'The experimental department of the firm has just completed a new game for which dies and jigs are already in preparation. The game will be presented to the coin machine market on or about Aug. 1. It will be known as Big Bertha and will embody the catapult feature now found on the American Beauty in a different and much more intriguing manner. The action will be up the board as in the present catapult shot on the American Beauty game. Larger balls will be used. Entirely different mechanism is being constructed and many of the outstanding features will be entirely new to the pinball industry. The tremendous popularity of the catapult shot, the firm states, has been the reason for the further continuance of the idea in this new form of a Big Bertha game.' What Daval neglected to mention was that the American Beauty catapult was mechanical, whereas the Big Bertha kick was electrical, with little or no true relationship between the two features."So this raises questions. Never mind that there are two versions of American Beauty, one of which has no "catapult" on the playfield at all. This is the "Three Vases" version. Clearly Bueschel was not aware of a version of American Beauty with an electric kicker. Are there two versions with a kicker, one mechanical and one electric? I've not seen any of these games in the wild to have an idea. Perhaps American Beauty was in production with a mechanical kicker, and once Daval got wind of electric kickers, they started producing American Beauty with such, while working on the design for the next game, Big Bertha.
I don't know, and this is probably more consideration than anyone is interested in giving, haha. cait001, can you provide any insight or thoughts on this? You're the only living pin historian I know of.
Jappie, I look forward to seeing the restoration and the video when it's complete!
Love the write up and the research. Thanks for the read!
It seems Daval wasn't shy of making elaborate changes to their titles mid-production. As you said, there's the 3 Vases vs the Catapult edition. Another difference I noticed is in the pictures below. The metal guiderail on the lower left is different in shape on both machines.IMG_20231205_015817 (resized).jpg
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I cleaned up the score counter mech on my American Beauty. Made a Youtube Short on how it works.
Enjoy!
Quoted from Irishbastard:If anyone near the New England area is interested in a rare Stoner, throw me an offer on this restored example...I'd like it out of my way.
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Beautiful machine. Is this the Senior version?
Quoted from Irishbastard:I don't know which version it is exactly, IMBD contacted me when I picked it up as they did not have photos of this machine. It has a rare "Tilt" mech and the rare medal adornments on the front.
It's hard to be sure without any reference, but looking at that cabinet I bet it's the Senior Deluxe. Both the Standard and the Junior Deluxe look different.
Do you have any other pictures of it? That art deco finishing on the front looks amazing.
Kinda cool to think this is the first generation of games that came in a Pro, Premium and LE.
I'd like to know your opinions and experiences on clearcoating the playfield of a prewar game.
Do you use 2k, like a modern game? Or is an 1k coating (that is normally used for wooden floors) good enough?
...or would you just put some good coats of wax on it?
Quoted from cfh:why do you need to clear coat a prewar game?
Many possible reasons. To preserve original paint that got brittle over the years, to protect touch ups, to reduce existing damage or to improve the general appearance.
Quoted from cfh:the only time i've used clear was when i had to touch up a pre-war playfield. but that happened because of damage, not ball play.
cfh May I ask what kind of clear you used? Were you happy with the results?
The game I'm working on has some damage in the wood that I feel will be less noticable with a protective layer on the playfield. I'm debating if that layer should be wax, 1k or 2k.
This might just be my favorite prewar playfield artwork ever. A stunning vista with some cowboys playing music and being merry around a campfire in the foreground, their horses grazing peacefully in the middle and their cattle in the background, surrounded by beautiful mountain peaks. A beautifully peaceful scene. I admire the fact that an unknown artist put the effort into making this ordinary gambling machine into something extrordinary.
I would love to bring back the vivid colors on this piece of art. Any ideas on what type of cleaner best to use for this type of playfield?
In the second picture you see the vivid colors that came from underneath some very old thick grime. I would like to get those colors back to the entire playfield, but I'm not sure if the rest of the playfield is faded/yellowed or grimey.
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West Chicago, IL