(Topic ID: 233216)

Pre-War Club! 1930 - 1939

By TopMoose

3 years ago


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  • 293 posts
  • 62 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 days ago by ourdave76
  • Topic is favorited by 48 Pinsiders

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There are 293 posts in this topic. You are on page 6 of 6.
#251 5 months ago
Quoted from minnesota13:

I would cut a piece of heavy gauge sheet metal to fit the cavity, mark and drill out clearance holes, sand down the cavity, then epoxy the sheet metal to the cavity. Unfortunately putting a slight "V" in the crack may not be enough to hold it together.

Thanks for the recommendation. I am going to add a piece of sheet metal to the repair. I’m still troubleshooting exactly how to go about it. But I think I have a pretty good idea. We shall see how it comes out. Curious what epoxy you use?

#252 5 months ago
Quoted from Blake:

Thanks for the recommendation. I am going to add a piece of sheet metal to the repair. I’m still troubleshooting exactly how to go about it. But I think I have a pretty good idea. We shall see how it comes out. Curious what epoxy you use?

There is nothing wrong with adding sheet metal, but I wouldn’t think it is needed. I would guess this was cracked by rough handling, not actual use. In the machine and doing its job, there are no forces tugging or pulling on this casting, just the shooter or ball lift smacking into it.

#253 5 months ago

1940 Bally "Record Time" I've been restoring. All that's left is to re-solder the bulb sockets, clean and wax the playfield, and some miscellaneous small cleaning.

And before I get called out on the date - this was produced 15 months before the US entered the war (and importantly, before the government enlisted the factories for the war effort)

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#254 5 months ago
Quoted from Wylte:

1940 Bally "Record Time" I've been restoring.

WOW! I don't recall for sure, but I think that's the earliest example of a Skill Lane. Can you please take a photo of the apron area? (score/instruction cards).

I'm curious about how the star features work.

#255 5 months ago
Quoted from bingopodcast:

WOW! I don't recall for sure, but I think that's the earliest example of a Skill Lane. Can you please take a photo of the apron area? (score/instruction cards).
I'm curious about how the star features work.

Unfortunately they don't explain it, but if memory serves they act as another "First" scoring hole when lit. I'll edit this next time I have the glass off; will roll until I get a star, poke it, and see how much it pays
I'm pretty sure there are earlier skill lanes (been a few months since I researched it) but this was the first game to make the outholes into goals. And then Bally kept making the exact same layout for a decade lol

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#256 5 months ago
Quoted from Wylte:

Unfortunately they don't explain it, but if memory serves they act as another "First" scoring hole when lit. I'll edit this next time I have the glass off; will roll until I get a star, poke it, and see how much it pays

I see - looking closer I see that the holes for the stars are in the typical boot or trophy or jockey cap or feature or etc. position.

On this game is it possible to light more than one star per game? Games made directly after the war returned to a 2 hole layout at the bottom.

This game is really neat! 6 playfield lamps arranged on the sides like a much later bingo pinball (minus 2 lamps ).

I shot you a private message as I have a special project I'm working on that could use your help. If you are willing, I'd be very grateful.

#257 5 months ago

got the schematic for record time? If yes, please post hi res pics of it ... the whole thing or overlapping sections so it can be stitched together.

pics of the inside would be great too!

if you don't have the schematic, you can find paperwork for a few one-balls in https://bingo.cdyn.com/machines/bally_one_balls/

sport king would probably be similar to record time

#258 5 months ago

Still 8 hours until fully cured. I think this should hold. Sanded both surfaces. Painted a thick layer of JB weld on the repair surface, then evenly pressed the brace into position. The sheet metal worked great and I was able to get it to lay nice and flat. Used a pencil to plug screw hole. Waxing it made for easy removal.

Used JB weld original formula as it’s what I had on hand. I’ve ordered some higher end epoxy. I wondered to about using bondo resin as I have worked with that a lot for busted corners on cabs and such. But people seem to be having great success with epoxy so I’ll try that in the future.

I was debating on filling the cavity completely but I didn’t think it was necessary. What do you think?

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#259 5 months ago
Quoted from Blake:

Still 8 hours until fully cured. I think this should hold. Sanded both surfaces. Painted a thick layer of JB weld on the repair surface, then evenly pressed the brace into position. The sheet metal worked great and I was able to get it to lay nice and flat. Used a pencil to plug screw hole. Waxing it made for easy removal.
Used JB weld original formula as it’s what I had on hand. I’ve ordered some higher end epoxy. I wondered to about using bondo resin as I have worked with that a lot for busted corners on cabs and such. But people seem to be having great success with epoxy so I’ll try that in the future.
I was debating on filling the cavity completely but I didn’t think it was necessary. What do you think?
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Nice clean work, that’ll hold forever!

#260 5 months ago
Quoted from bingopodcast:

I see - looking closer I see that the holes for the stars are in the typical boot or trophy or jockey cap or feature or etc. position.
On this game is it possible to light more than one star per game? Games made directly after the war returned to a 2 hole layout at the bottom.
... I shot you a private message as I have a special project I'm working on that could use your help. If you are willing, I'd be very grateful.

One star lit at a time, usually none. And any pictures I upload are free to use; I plan on uploading pictures (when it's cleaned and waxed) here and to IPDB, as well as making a virtual recreation

Quoted from baldtwit:

got the schematic for record time? If yes, please post hi res pics of it ... the whole thing or overlapping sections so it can be stitched together.
pics of the inside would be great too!
if you don't have the schematic, you can find paperwork for a few one-balls in https://bingo.cdyn.com/machines/bally_one_balls/
sport king would probably be similar to record time

Sadly no schematic, but I've taken lots of pictures of everything inside and out. Been documenting my progress on Discord. Once I'm done I'll make a thread here with the whole process and upload a folder with everything.
And thank you for the link, that might help me! I want to try and make at least a rough schematic for this.

I *think* I have Steve Campbell to thank for taking care of this in the past - adding a power switch, fixing the Bally tilt wiring, and labeling everything - if anyone knows him.

On a side note, how do I get this added to the database here, so I can add it to my collection?

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#261 5 months ago
Quoted from Wylte:

On a side note, how do I get this added to the database here, so I can add it to my collection?

Added!

#262 5 months ago

How did this happen so quickly? I asked to have my 1938 Bally Reserve added a number of weeks ago via a new, appropriately sub-forumed thread and got zero response.

2 weeks later
#264 5 months ago

Hello All,
I'm relatively new to this era of pins, and looking to see if anyone else out there has a 1935 Mills Pearl Harbor. I am working on one for a friend, and part of the decision to go forward full blown with the project is whether I can find or replicate the missing pieces. If anyone has one and is willing to share some pics, I would greatly appreciate it!

I have many questions, but thought I'd start by seeing if anyone has this particular one. Here's a few pics of the game. Missing the metal cover piece that goes on playfield near the shooter rod, access doors, and coin mech linkage. Also, the ball lift has been hacked up.

Thank you!

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#265 5 months ago
Quoted from PolePosition:

Hello All,
I'm relatively new to this era of pins, and looking to see if anyone else out there has a 1935 Mills Pearl Harbor. I am working on one for a friend, and part of the decision to go forward full blown with the project is whether I can find or replicate the missing pieces. If anyone has one and is willing to share some pics, I would greatly appreciate it!
I have many questions, but thought I'd start by seeing if anyone has this particular one. Here's a few pics of the game. Missing the metal cover piece that goes on playfield near the shooter rod, access doors, and coin mech linkage. Also, the ball lift has been hacked up.
Thank you!
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Very cool, certainly deserves restoration. It still has the payout mech, which is very good news. OLDPINGUY may be able to provide some details.

#266 5 months ago

Sorry, I dont have mine anymore. Its somewhere here in Florida.

It was in worse shape than yours, so unless someone here restored it, its sitting as a "project" to do.

I can try to help, if I know something.....Whats your needs? Others can chime.....

I just Love the Playfield and History.

#267 5 months ago

Check the Facebook group. I know ive seen at least one other Pearl Harbor on there

https://www.facebook.com/groups/prewar

#269 5 months ago

I'm really hoping to find someone else that has one so I can see what the missing parts look like. Here's the main things it's missing:

1. Metal trim piece that mounts in the shooter rod area
2. Front and side access doors and locks
3. Diamond shaped accent pieces for cab (3 each side, plus one on front door)
4. Glass
5. Ball lift assembly. The currently assembly has been hacked in, and not sure if it could be returned back to original.
6. Original legs, decorative metal trim pieces that mount on the legs, and leg levelers. Game did come with some reproduction legs that look the part, so really just the metal pieces.
7. Coin mech linkage. Photos of how it connects into the payout lever would be helpful.
8. Battery info. Wiring looks to be intact, with a 9 pin plug coming from the playfield that connects into the payout block. Two leads coming from the switch presumably go to a battery source, so info on battery requirements would be helpful.

Item #1 will be the most difficult. My son was going to draft up a 3D pic of what we think it looks like based on brochure images and fade lines on the game, then 3D print it, then see if we could find somewhere to have it cast in aluminum. Very much a long shot, but if the part exists out there that's sitting on someone's shelf, please let me know.

Thank you!

#270 5 months ago

way2wyrd - Thanks for the tip. I'm not on facebook unfortunately, and cool to see the game added already!

#271 5 months ago

I had my son post on the Facebook group link, so we’ll see what comes out of it. It would be great to get those pre war pinheads to migrate over to Pinside.

1 week later
#272 4 months ago

Started a restoration thread on my 1934 Daval Big Bertha (senior) - https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/1934-daval-big-bertha-senior

1 week later
#273 4 months ago

Started work on my 1933 Genco Silver Cup: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/1933-genco-silver-cup

I found the last person to work on it left behind a mint 1930’s Yankee Handyman 2H ratcheting screwdriver. This is going into my pinball toolkit!
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#274 4 months ago
Quoted from PlanetExpress:

Started work on my 1933 Genco Silver Cup: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/1933-genco-silver-cup
I found the last person to work on it left behind a mint 1930’s Yankee Handyman 2H ratcheting screwdriver. This is going into my pinball toolkit!
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[quoted image]

That's where I left it!!!
Cool find. Imagine how long last guy looked for that?

2 weeks later
#275 4 months ago

I just released a new video for everybody to enjoy, featuring Exhibit's 1940 Wings. A machine that was recently unearthed by a friend of mine. Really interesting layout and gameplay. Enjoy!

10
#276 4 months ago

And another one! This time I've dissected the ruleset of my 1940 Genco Big League. Which was easier said then done. But... I'm quite happy with the result. Hope you people enjoy the video.

1 week later
12
#277 3 months ago

Picked this ol' girl up yesterday.

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#278 3 months ago
Quoted from Blake:

Picked this ol' girl up yesterday.

such a fun game

#279 3 months ago
Quoted from way2wyrd:

such a fun game

I'm really looking forward to the restoration. Overall its in fantastic shape. Hope to get to it shortly after Big Bertha is finished.

#280 3 months ago
Quoted from way2wyrd:

such a fun game

When you tell someone the features of this pin it sounds like your talking about an early SS.

- 5 kickouts
- 2 subways
- 2 captive balls
- 2 habitrails
- rollover triggers firing of captive balls
- automatic kickout on lower pf
- dual shooter lane holes to rotate/choose scoring ball

#281 3 months ago
Quoted from Blake:

When you tell someone the features of this pin it sounds like your talking about an early SS.
- 5 kickouts
- 2 subways
- 2 captive balls
- 2 habitrails
- rollover triggers firing of captive balls
- automatic kickout on lower pf
- dual shooter lane holes to rotate/choose scoring ball

Damn you find the good stuff!
Big Bertha now this.
Congrats, jealous.

#282 3 months ago
Quoted from Ericpinballfan:

Damn you find the good stuff!
Big Bertha now this.
Congrats, jealous.

Thanks! I consider myself lucky with Spit Fire. Big Bertha was an absolute basket case. It’s looking good now but my lord was this pin in rough shape to start.

2 months later
#283 20 days ago

Another video of Genco's 1940 Big League!

1 week later
#284 12 days ago

Hello. Looking for info about this bagatelle game, date, value, etc. Any tips where else to look would be appreciated to.

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#285 12 days ago
Quoted from ourdave76:

Hello. Looking for info about this bagatelle game,

Not a clue. Can only speculate, that the date on the game '1876' could be the name. The ball plunger was added later, as an upgrade. Since it has the 1881 patent date.

Hopefully some one else will chime in.

#286 12 days ago
Quoted from ourdave76:

Hello. Looking for info about this bagatelle game, date, value, etc. Any tips where else to look would be appreciated to.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

R Rothschild and Son was a bar room and billiards manufacturer and retailer from Cincinnati. Here is an example of their work: https://www.facebook.com/JeffRubysSteakhouse/photos/ms.c.eJxljcENwEAMwjaqIArJ3f6LVX1Vgq~_FDUEJV3OEpXYe~;qQ5RqqcoNNygo5OlBXvVVGGWxsbXSezn~;UClF0vTw~-~-.bps.a.10155095684951576/10155095685591576

That bagatelle was made by Montague Redgrave and then retailed through R Rothschild and Son, as detailed here: https://americanhistory.si.edu/blog/2012/10/the-bagatelle-wizard-instead-of-the-pinball-wizard.html

“The bulk of the profits came from a new, larger version of the original table top game that was promoted to saloon owners as a way to "entertain your customers and make money." The Parisian Bagatelle Table "combines gravity with muscular power." Marketed by Rothschild's & Sons, the game was advertised as "two actions worked in harmony on an inclining table which has great advantage over the cue." For just a nickel you could buy a handful of balls and try your luck for 20-30 minutes. With this glowing endorsement, bagatelle tables became a common fixture in taverns, inns, saloons, and penny arcades.”

#287 12 days ago
Quoted from ourdave76:

Hello. Looking for info about this bagatelle game, date, value, etc. Any tips where else to look would be appreciated to.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

IMO, the history is really cool, but the actual value isn’t much. I guess the highest $ value would be to someone who already has a R Rothschild and Son bar or billiards set, who wants a cool showpiece from the same vendor. Likely it’d bring the most value in a Cincinnati area sale, too.

A few more items for you:

Pacific Pinball Museum’s example:
https://m.facebook.com/pacificpinball/posts/did-you-know-montague-redgrave-was-a-british-immigrant-living-in-cincinnati-ohio/2007221352664582/

Redgrave’s patent:
https://pdfpiw.uspto.gov/.piw?docid=00115357&PageNum=1&IDKey=88B5D4F8D92D&HomeUrl=http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1%2526Sect2=HITOFF%2526d=PALL%2526p=1%2526u=%25252Fnetahtml%25252FPTO%25252Fsrchnum.htm%2526r=1%2526f=G%2526l=50%2526s1=0115357.PN.%2526OS=PN/0115357%2526RS=PN/0115357

Original patent model is actually on display (not just in the collection) of the National Museum of American History:
https://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/search/object/nmah_689012

I don’t see an 1881 patent granted for Redgrave, but I think that could be related to this (losing) patent infringement suite against Singer, where Redgrave was trying to claim a new patent, but the device changes were not large enough to warrant a new patent:

https://books.google.com/books?id=_a4KAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA306&lpg=PA306&dq=Montague+Redgrave+patents&source=bl&ots=ZQ-kqKMydp&sig=ACfU3U0TiDXS9YTxbk_iigfE2u0w7iFDhA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj5hpeforX5AhXkCDQIHQjnCeoQ6AF6BAguEAI#v=onepage&q=Montague%20Redgrave%20patents&f=false

#288 12 days ago
Quoted from ourdave76:

Hello. Looking for info about this bagatelle game, date, value, etc. Any tips where else to look would be appreciated to.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Here’s what I could find for auction results for Redgrave bagatelle games (some are older results, but there hasn’t been much change in the demand for bagatelle):

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#289 11 days ago
Quoted from ourdave76:

Hello. Looking for info about this bagatelle game, date, value, etc. Any tips where else to look would be appreciated to.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Very cool find, what are the dimensions of this?
It seems way larger than most of the other bagatelles of the time. Like, almost to a detriment? There's TOO MUCH on the playfield! lol
I'm interested in buying a nice 19th century bagatelle. If yours was a normal sized one (like PlanetExpress posted examples of) I'd send you an offer but it's probably too much to ship with that size.
If you ever made it to Canada or Norther NY State I'd be interested!

#290 11 days ago
Quoted from Darcy:

Not a clue. Can only speculate, that the date on the game '1876' could be the name. The ball plunger was added later, as an upgrade. Since it has the 1881 patent date.
Hopefully some one else will chime in.

While many were certainly retrofitted with plungers, why do you think this one had a plunger added later?

#291 9 days ago
Quoted from cait001:

While many were certainly retrofitted with plungers, why do you think this one had a plunger added later?

The whole plunger and lane cover just has a different look to it. I was just speculating based on the photo, with the difference of the '1876' on the playfield and the patent date on that plaque of '1881'. Making a game to celebrate 1876, 5 years later could of happened, since no one is around from that time, one can only guess.

#292 9 days ago
Quoted from Darcy:

The whole plunger and lane cover just has a different look to it. I was just speculating based on the photo, with the difference of the '1876' on the playfield and the patent date on that plaque of '1881'. Making a game to celebrate 1876, 5 years later could of happened, since no one is around from that time, one can only guess.

In the linked example, the playfield is marked “PAT FEB 15, 1876”, so my thought is that something about the playfield was patented in 1876 and that became the model number. https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/antique-1876-redgrave-original-parlor-1866116312

In this image of the instructions from a Redgrave, it calls out the 1871 and 1876 patents.

This site has some other examples: http://www.pinballhistory.com/bagatelle.html

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#293 5 days ago

Thanks to everyone who supplied info on the large 3'x5' bagatelle. When I have an update on its status I'll post.

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