Forgot to mention that my particular game used to be a payout machine but is missing that whole bottom portion that had those mechs and other bits in it. I do have a lead on a game that still has one attached and the guy's phone number. Just gotta call him and have him take a ton of pictures for me.

I recently completed a restoration of a 1934 Rockola World Series and I made a video documenting the process!

Welcome to Pinside. I didn't realize you'd end up here so I posted your video in reply #197 to this topic. A reminder never hurts though. It's all good.

/Mark

SullivanMadden
That World Series looks excellent! Well done on the video, too. I appreciate your inclusion of your mistakes-- gosh, how many times have I been embarrassed for making a mistake that seemed very stupid. But it's good experience learning how to fix those mistakes, haha. Is this your first restoration? Very cool to see other young people restoring pre wars.

It's not pinball, but I have an article up on Japanese Rolling Ball that people here might like

http://nikkeivoice.ca/arcade-origins-in-the-japanese-rolling-ball-how-tamakorogashi-shaped-the-world-of-modern-gaming/

http://pinballnovice.blogspot.com/2022/01/nikkei-voice-article-on-tamakorogashi.html

I'm currently restoring a 1934 Gottlieb Push Over. The wiring will need to be replaced because of dry rot. It looks to be hacked up and adapted to fit two 6-volt DC batteries (maybe?). At least thats my guess to this point. Hoping someone has a working example of this title or one close to it for comparison. The game has both a coil and a bell that are electrically powered when either of two switches are closed. I'm believe this machine was made long before schematics were made available. Did Gottlieb and others power all there pre A/C pins with a single 12 volt battery? Was it common to convert to two 6 volt lantern style batteries?

Here are a few pics of all the wiring and a rough schematic I drew up for reference if you can follow it. If I can't figure out the original way they wired it I may just wire it how I see fit but I'd really like to keep it original. There are two connectors that are an obvious mating pair. Whether they wired it correctly is still up in the air.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

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All the battery games I've had were 6 Volt systems, although none of those were Gottlieb games (Bally, Genco, Jennings, Peo, etc.). They were powered by four large cylindrical carbon zinc batteries, like huge "D" cells (still have old batteries in a few games here). If you spot the place for the original batteries in your cabinet then you might be able to confirm how many cells were used (4 at 1.5 Volts per cell, in series, for a 6 volt game). Some manufacturers started adding battery doors to their cabinets, otherwise it is a nuisance to get under the playfield for a battery swap.

I'm currently restoring a 1934 Gottlieb Push Over. The wiring will need to be replaced because of dry rot. It looks to be hacked up and adapted to fit two 6-volt DC batteries (maybe?). At least thats my guess to this point. ...

Thanks for the help. I see where they were originally in the back of the cabinet as there was leakage. But maybe I can decipher the number of cells by the outline. Looked square initially.

Do you happen to have any wiring pics of your pre war games? I’m curious how they wired in items like bells and coils in parallel as well as the stool pigeon tilt and battery.

I’m thinking of rewiring the cabinet like this.

Probably reposition the switches to be after the coil/bell load.

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Following out of curiosity.

The way you have it drawn, after the unit is switched on, both the bell and push over coil will energize any time either of the two switches close. Is that what you want?

Just a thought, last time I saw those old Cardboard wrapped cylindrical batteries was twenty years ago at an old small town hardware store auction. I’m sure those batteries were dead, but they sure brought back memories.

Good luck on getting this going.

Yes thats correct. The game is 5 balls plunged for points. If you plunge into the "Push Over" hole you close a switch which energizes the coil and both returns any balls in the "Out" hole and advances the balls inside the kickout holes. It simultaneously rings the bell. And as far as I have read placing a ball into the "Repeater" hole does the same.

Neat looking game. Wires are bad enough to be original, and then they were taped up later on. Can't tell from pics but the game might work fine after replacing the wires, one wire at a time.

Have a Jennings 4-cell battery compartment and the internal measurements are: 10-1/4" wide, 2-1/2" deep, 6-1/4" tall and currently open (no lid or retaining bar on top).

Yea I think getting it going won't be to bad as none of the mechs/moving parts are seized just gunked up. But without knowing what battery combination was meant for the 4x fork connectors that are currently present I'm not really sure what to connect where. I'm confident I could rewire the game like in the schematic above and get it to perform the proper way but it would be nice to keep it original. I have a hard time wrapping my head around the wiring methods they used. I'm sure they knew exactly what the fastest/best method was. Its just not easy to follow or necessarily straight forward.

The back area where I'm assuming the battery sat in this cabinet has no retaining brackets/wood blocks to hold the battery whatsoever. Maybe they were removed because of the leakage though.

Gaining some. Is it true that many early pigeon stool tilts were not connected electrically and simply relied on an honor system or the clerk/attendant to make sure the tilt was not disturbed when confirming scores?

This would make sense when looking at mine as I don't see any electrical connections.

Found a video of a 1934 Bally Fleet that shows the wiring depicted as I have in my schematic. So I know that will work as the game is accomplishing the same objective of firing a coil and ringing a bell simultaneously after a switch closure.

sharing a trove of prewar carnival/arcade photographs: http://pinballnovice.blogspot.com/2022/01/photographs-from-collection-of-james-r.html
no pinball but ah well still really cool

That is a Fleet Jr, and the bell shouldn’t have a separate coil, it should be struck by a hammer when the cannons fire from the coil. In this photo from mine, you can see how the steel plate fires the cannons and moves the bell striker, while the copper plate resets the game without triggering the bell or cannons (steel plate moves when the copper plate moves, but the copper plate stays in place when the steel plate moves). Creative bit of design!

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I hate to be that guy but I can’t find a lot of info on this what is a 1935 Genco Baseball pinball machine value buying maybe.

Fully restored and perfect: $1,000 Clean and working: $800 Needing restoration: $300

Thanks now I know what to offer

Those pics were cool! Thank you for sharing.

Thanks for the additional info. I only used that video for informational purposes when wiring up a game that uses a bell and coil. My Gottlieb Push Over is a different setup as for how the bell and coil are actuated. Both in parallel. Mine has a traditional bell powered by the battery.

I have since wired it up and the game is now safe and working correctly. At least while out of the cab during testing.

I am however missing the leg plates that are on the outside of the wooden leg. I would love to come across a set.

Hey Cait,
Looking through Shorpy I just found this and thought of your Japanese Rolling Ball article. Thought you might get a kick out of it.
https://www.shorpy.com/node/11594

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yes that's a fabulous image! Thank you for thinking of me. That photo is in the full body of research, under 1910 http://pinballnovice.blogspot.com/2021/07/tamakorogashi-japanese-roll-ball.html
What a great service that shorpy site is, right? Some really amazing photos in high res. I love to see the old American streetscapes and with the high res you can zoom in on some and read all the signs.

a quick update on PRE-prewar front...
http://pinballnovice.blogspot.com/2022/01/9-hole-bagatelle.html

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http://pinballnovice.blogspot.com/2022/01/assembling-bite-sized-bagatelles.html

Well I guess I should have expected you'd seen that one. Shorpy is awesome. The Rolling Ball photo came up while searching in there for skeeball. Always hoping I will see my old Wurlitzer in some vintage photo. When I saw that image I was like wow I just read about that. Never knew it was a predecessor to skeeball before the article.

I've also seen a few for sale like the one on the far right in your above photo but never knew the connection before.

If you ever find a rolling ball table, like the one on the right, that has lineage that can be traced back to America (or Japan,) please alert me immediately! Most of them that exist are from around France, because it became a popular fair game there.

tangent: in many parts of Europe there are pockets of vibrant enthusiasm for many of the old-timey table games. It's pretty delightful.
some places in England still have 9-hole bagatelle leagues. Bar billiards tournaments. Spinning top / Toupie Hollandaise conventions! Many variants of table skittles games. And even Japanese Rolling Ball, though there they typically call it Billard Japonais.
One of the common factors is that many of the folksy old games that still have a following can all be built by woodworkers without too much difficulty. Billiards tables obviously take a lot more craftsmanship and varied components (rubber, felt,) but all of the ones tend to be primarily wood games. You have some wood and a few handy workers, your town can have a carnival games lineup at the local fair.

Ok... I had never heard of that Shorpy site before just now and after visiting for just a few minutes, I can tell I'll be spending some hours on it this weekend searching for all kinds of stuff to make me happy/sad/nostalgic! So, thanks, I think!

Luv these machines I have 3 Rockola's including my latest Rockola Wings. Just the coin shute to strip and polish and fix the ball lift, then good to go. I have still rebuild my world series

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Looking for pre-war decorative leg plates? I'm missing all 4 from my Gottlieb Push-Over. From the indentations on my legs they look to be similar to that of the Rock-Ola trifecta series. I see that some folks if lucky enough to get there hands on one will send them out for reproduction. Thanks for any help.

-Blake

Tq9e5

I have a few Rockola leg plates available.

Sent a pm. Thanks.

Scratched my previous post. Now it's this:

Found these on eBay. They look correct for most pre-war games, definitely for Bally games as they look identical to what I've got on my 1938 Reserve. I'm going to message the seller to get an exact measurement on them to be sure they're correct.

ebay.com link: itm

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Those look identical to what’s on my Gottlieb Push Over too. I’d love to find the caster feet as well.

Pinball Resource has these for 90 cents. http://www.pbresource.com/gtbsd/leg-plate.jpg

I believe I’ve bought these before and I think they are different in size but someone may want to verify. The old ones being a larger diameter and less threads than the new.

I can confirm later this weekend.

Those are basic 3/8x16 tee nuts that you can get at McMaster-Carr or Home Depot, and they're incorrect for lots of early games, especially mine. The hole drilled in the bottom of the older wooden legs wouldn't let the smaller diameter of those tee nuts' nail holes let the nails grab all that much wood. These correct tee nuts are not only identical to what I've got, but the wider location of the nail holes lets the nails grab more "meat", as it were.

Here is the one I've got. This guy's new ones are a perfect match. If you can find them cheaper somewhere, let me know and I'll happily buy another set.

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Update a couple of pictures from rockola wings and world fair jigsaw. My jigsaw has has had the double score removed, does anybody have pictures so i can fabricate a new one. I believe a rod goes from the coin side to somewhere underneath the playfield.

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Such a cool game. I love the way the ball flys all over the pf. Yours seems to play great!

Leg plates cleaned up pretty good so far Bruce @znet. Thanks again.

I’m still looking for one more if anyone has one available. Also wondering if anyone has a source for the proper size ceramic balls (7/8” I believe). I need another white ball. I’d like to replace several if available.

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Awesome! I will check them out. Thanks for the info.

Can anyone confirm that the stool pigeon tilt ball size on 1930 Gottlieb's is 1/2" ? Curious if this is standard on Bally, Rock-ola, Jennings, exc. of the same era.

thanks
Blake

EDIT: Looks like Rock-Ola may have used 3/4"

Checked my Bally Fleet Jr… it uses a 9/16” steel ball.

HELP - Rockola World Fair Jigsaw Tilt problem
I have just fitted the tilt mechanism at last and I am having a problem i.e. it will not tilt when the tilt ball falls into the T plate which should then move the display to TILT. If I touch the the mechanism after the ball has fallen in to the trough it tilts straight away. The ball is 3/4 inch. All the mechanisms are free to move. Seems like the mechanism may be catching somewhere. It will tilt if you lift the front of the floor.

Awesome. Thanks for doing that.

Anyone had to repair a shooter rod/ball lift housing? Or anything made of similar metal. I believe it’s pot metal or white metal. It’s a little more then a hairline crack and has not completely broke. I only noticed when getting ready to put in ultrasonic cleaner.

There is an open void on the backside that I feel something similar to JB weld could be applied but I’d like to hear ideas. I also need to make sure it’s going to adhere.

Thanks
Blake

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I’d put it through the ultrasonic to degrease, then JB Weld the back and call it a day.

Yes thats what the plan is. Already gone through the cleaner. Now for some JB weld. I plan on scoring the area with an xacto knife before hand for extra tooth.

Pic was pre ultrasonic cleaner.

I would cut a piece of heavy gauge sheet metal to fit the cavity, mark and drill out clearance holes, sand down the cavity, then epoxy the sheet metal to the cavity. Unfortunately putting a slight "V" in the crack may not be enough to hold it together.