(Topic ID: 198466)

Pre-DMD multiball with no lock stealing?


By volcanolotus

3 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 21 posts
  • 8 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 months ago by zacaj
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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Linked Games

#1 3 years ago

I know many/most early SS games that have multiball also have lock stealing. I'm wondering which ones don't? I've linked a few I know about - what else is there? In particular, I'm interested to know about these:

Alien Star
Elektra
Firepower 2
Flight 2000
Hoops
Scramble
Space Team
Star Light
Transporter The Rescue
Vector

Thanks!

#2 3 years ago

Alien Star doesn't, as there are no locks. Same with Jungle Lord.

Do you count something like Black Knight?

#3 3 years ago

Hoops doesn't, or at least there's a setting to make the game eject locked balls between turns.

Transporter does.

Also, calling Hoops an early SS game is kind of weird.

#4 3 years ago

I'm pretty sure that Fire!, Road Kings and F-14 Tom-Cat all kick out the other players locked ball when another player locks one as do
Scorpion, Solar Fire, Cosmic Gunfight, Barracora...
That's all I can think of ATM...

Phoebe

#5 3 years ago
Quoted from Butterflygirl24:

I'm pretty sure that Fire!, Road Kings and F-14 Tom-Cat all kick out the other players locked ball when another player locks one as do
Scorpion, Solar Fire, Cosmic Gunfight, Barracora...
That's all I can think of ATM...
Phoebe

Fire! does not. Even though it could, it just lets you steal them instead. Or at least the one on location here does...

#6 3 years ago
Quoted from zacaj:

Do you count something like Black Knight?

Sure!

Quoted from stevevt:

Also, calling Hoops an early SS game is kind of weird.

Yeah, true Pre-DMD is more accurate, I should've just stuck with that.

Quoted from Butterflygirl24:

Scorpion, Solar Fire

Are you sure about these two? IPDB says Scorpion has lock stealing and PAPA says Solar Fire does. Do you know if there's a setting?

#7 3 years ago
Quoted from volcanolotus:

Are you sure about these two? IPDB says Scorpion has lock stealing and PAPA says Solar Fire does. Do you know if there's a setting?

As zacaj was hinting at when talking about BK, "lock stealing" is a pretty vague term. It's really best to describe the lock behavior for each game. For example, if P1 locks a ball in Scorpion and drains,P2 can lock a ball in the other lock and the ball kicks out. No lock stealing! But then, P2 can start a multiball and not lock another ball, and P1 ends up with no lock. Lock stealing!

#8 3 years ago

There's also Big Guns then, it has the same rules for locks.

Most Gottliebs eject the balls on drain so they're okay:
Spirit, Mars God of War, maybe Volcano?

Whirlwind doesn't have stealing per se, but some of its attempts to avoid it can get weird.

Quoted from stevevt:

As #zacaj was hinting at, "lock stealing" is a pretty vague term. It's really best to describe the lock behavior for each game. For example, if P1 locks a ball in Scorpion and drains,P2 can lock a ball in the other lock and the ball kicks out. No lock stealing! But then, P2 can start a multiball and not lock another ball, and P1 ends up with no lock. Lock stealing!

There's really two different issues, lock stealing (when you get a lock you didn't earn) and lock.... something else (when you lose a lock you did earn). Trashing? Any game with stealing also has the second, but many games without stealing (like Black Knight, Scorpion, Firepower) do have the second. Even some DMD games (World Cup Soccer I think? But any game with a physical lock and without auto fire) have lock 'trashing'.

#9 3 years ago
Quoted from zacaj:

Whirlwind doesn't have stealing per se,

Lock stealing has at least a couple components:
1) One player benefits from another player's locks.
2) One player removes another player's locked ball(s).

WW has #2 but not #1.

#10 3 years ago
Quoted from zacaj:

There's really two different issues, lock stealing (when you get a lock you didn't earn) and lock.... something else (when you lose a lock you did earn). Trashing? Any game with stealing also has the second, but many games without stealing (like Black Knight, Scorpion, Firepower) do have the second. Even some DMD games (World Cup Soccer I think? But any game with a physical lock and without auto fire) have lock 'trashing'.

Hmm, that's interesting, thanks! I didn't realize that about BK; I guess it's not what I'm looking for here, then.

What I was getting at was "games with multiball where one player cannot influence another player's locks". So those Gottliebs that eject on drain would count, as would something like Blackwater 100 where multiball just happens at the start of the ball, or something like Alien Star where you're not exactly "locking" the ball. It seems technically possible for a design with physically locked balls to still have player "memory" of some sort, but perhaps not practical and I can't think of any pre-DMD examples I've personally seen offhand. Is that how Funhouse works?

#11 3 years ago

Funhouse is the same as black knight, you need to reload your locks if someone else gets multiball

#12 3 years ago
Quoted from zacaj:

Funhouse is the same as black knight, you need to reload your locks if someone else gets multiball

The Tournament setting for Funhouse fixes this problem by forcing you to re-lock balls every time, so at least each player always has the same (more difficult) experience.

#13 3 years ago
Quoted from stevevt:

The Tournament setting for Funhouse fixes this problem by forcing you to re-lock balls every time, so at least each player always has the same (more difficult) experience.

So it just removes lock memory? Basically just trashing everyone's locks automatically...

#14 3 years ago
Quoted from zacaj:

So it just removes lock memory? Basically just trashing everyone's locks automatically...

Yup. I think it also brings you back to 11:30 each time.

#15 3 years ago

You cannot steal locks on Firepower.

#16 3 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

You cannot steal locks on Firepower.

But people can take yours away, right?

I always thought I'd be cool on firepower if it just used the star rollovers in front of the locks to register if you'd 'hit' a lock when there was already a ball in it

#17 3 years ago
Quoted from zacaj:

But people can take yours away, right?
I always thought I'd be cool on firepower if it just used the star rollovers in front of the locks to register if you'd 'hit' a lock when there was already a ball in it

Right like WCS. You have to get to multiball on you're own, but you can have another player's locked ball released on your way there.

2 years later
#18 7 months ago

I own a Mars God of War since april 2019...
That is a game from 1981 which drains all locked balls when you drain a ball!!

#20 7 months ago
Quoted from Antoshka:

I own a Mars God of War since april 2019...
That is a game from 1981 which drains all locked balls when you drain a ball!!

True, just one of the features that make that a really brutal game. always challenging though , keeps you coming back for more.

#21 7 months ago

I wonder what the first Gottlieb multiball game that /didn't/ eject your lock on drain was?

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