(Topic ID: 59929)

Practicing for tournaments

By ahanson

10 years ago


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  • 37 posts
  • 18 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 10 years ago by jayvo86
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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    #1 10 years ago

    How do you practice so when you only get one game you have a good enough one?

    I just got into the pinball hobby this year and I've started to join the local tournaments and will likely be doing leagues this fall too. I think my skills are progressing OK. I've been watching many of the pinball.org videos and just started to make my own rule sheets to help remember how to score more points and learn new machines. I can reach replay levels on many of the location machines now (usually my first goal) and have even made it on a few of the high score boards recently. My problem is even though I can get a good game in, I seem to have a problem putting it together in tournament play. I'm wondering if there are any strategies I could be trying to help improve my tournament play. I've setup my games at home with more sensitive tilt and open outlanes but I'm not sure how best to practice so that when I only get one game I do alright. Overall, I'm still just trying to improve my avg level of play in hopes that gets me higher.

    #2 10 years ago

    I would say practice ball trapping and learn to try and cradle the ball more. The more control you have the better. If you know of the games in the tournament ahead of time, try and brush up on the rules and figure out how to get the big points.

    #3 10 years ago

    ...and watch Pinball 102!

    #4 10 years ago

    Dont forget to turn off extra balls and long ball saves. Learn how to post pass, dead flip, drop catch, nudge and make accurate shots... the hardest skill I have found to master is nerves.

    #5 10 years ago
    Quoted from practicalsteve:

    I would say practice ball trapping and learn to try and cradle the ball more. The more control you have the better. If you know of the games in the tournament ahead of time, try and brush up on the rules and figure out how to get the big points.

    Definitely. To expand on this advice: Control, Shot accuracy and Strategy are the three big elements to develop and practice. Flipper control skills and shot accuracy can be practiced on most games. Depending on how anal you want to get, you should practice on games with the same era of flippers as the tournament you're going to (there ARE differences that will alter some control techniques)...but that might be too extreme right now. ;P

    How I tend to warm up before going to a competition is on something like F-14. I put a 4-player game in and I'll just work on putting the ball into screwed up situations and attempt to gain control. Then I might attempt to do 10-20 post passes in a row. Maybe shatz the lanes 10-20 times. Then point at a random shot and attempt to shoot it in as few tries as possible (while regaining control via flipper skills). I don't so much play for points, I put the ball into "situations" which I have to recover from.

    Side-quick-rant: Patience is the key to control IMO...and patience is only developed through confidence...and confidence is only developed through experience. I feel a lot of players flail at the ball and send it into randomness because of a lack of confidence. I know that's when I wind up flailing in tournaments/leagues. The key is to always stay calm and learn to only flip when you have to. Catch yourself when you've entered a flailing meltdown and in the moment force yourself to calm down and gain control. It has done wonders for me in stressful situations where I was set to blow it big time. This is all IMO of course.

    Rules...rules, unfortunately, you can't really practice. You gotta look them up. Unless there is something oddball or rare, you can usually look up a rule sheet/strategy discussion online. Or one of Bowen's tutorials.

    Good luck!

    #6 10 years ago

    I'm still working on patience. It's very hard to trust a dead flipper bounce as it just seems counter intuitive and I don't think I do enough of it. I also notice many of my drains are due to anxious slap saves that I probably didn't need to try resulting in the ball draining between the flippers.

    I see myself as more of a precision style player than an on the fly flow style at the moment although my multiball play is generally a flail fest, working on that though for tournaments.

    I also have started playing multi-player games while practicing to get used to having to wait for other players in between balls.

    Oh and nerves seem to get me every time.

    The pros just make it look so easy.

    #7 10 years ago
    Quoted from ahanson:

    It's very hard to trust a dead flipper bounce as it just seems counter intuitive and I don't think I do enough of it.

    Yeah it's rough...it's rough at home to get used to it...then add in a tourney situation and it's a lot tougher. It's like anything else that involves skill, you can know exactly what you want/should do, but to be able to do it makes the difference.

    #8 10 years ago

    I generally tend to try and live catch instead of let it dead bounce but the more I watch all the PAPA guys play the more I try to trust the ball to do its thing and pass it, if needed, after its on a flipper.

    #9 10 years ago
    Quoted from ahanson:

    I generally tend to try and live catch instead of let it dead bounce but the more I watch all the PAPA guys play the more I try to trust the ball to do its thing and pass it, if needed, after its on a flipper.

    Just start small...some games I do it all the time, other games I need to learn.
    You own a Tron, it's so quick when I play letting it bounce from right flipper after coming out of scoop can just cause more harm that good.

    #10 10 years ago

    Personally, I hate to say it, but while ball control is of paramount importance, what separates the winners from the losers is knowledge of the game they're playing. And that's really time consuming. The top-level players know every nuance in a game, which shots to go for, even down to the software versions and any special idiosyncrasies the game version may have.

    #11 10 years ago
    Quoted from PinballHelp:

    Personally, I hate to say it, but while ball control is of paramount importance, what separates the winners from the losers is knowledge of the game they're playing. And that's really time consuming. The top-level players know every nuance in a game, which shots to go for, even down to the software versions and any special idiosyncrasies the game version may have.

    I agree, knowing what to go for is so key. Like on T2 the super jackpot is so huge that even if you have good flipper skills, knowing that it's a huge payout is almost more important. I am trying to improve my skills but I still primarily play for fun so I am not going to try and learn all the rules to every machine!

    #12 10 years ago

    This is the dilemma I wrestle with. I have really good flipper skills. But I don't have unlimited access to every game ever made, access to the latest games as soon as they come out, or hours upon hours to play every game out there. But the top-level pros do. And the sad reality is, you can only go so far on your skills. To cross to the "next level" you have to invest a huge amount of time into learning all the rulesets, software versions, and different play strategies that are exclusive to tournaments.

    I am not sure where I fit into the rankings when I think about how much time I am willing to invest and whether it's worth it? So right now I mostly play for fun, but I am enjoying being ranked kinda up there.. I just fear to get much higher, I have to give up exponentially more time to the hobby for not as much return.

    #13 10 years ago
    Quoted from PinballHelp:

    Personally, I hate to say it, but while ball control is of paramount importance, what separates the winners from the losers is knowledge of the game they're playing. And that's really time consuming. The top-level players know every nuance in a game, which shots to go for, even down to the software versions and any special idiosyncrasies the game version may have.

    Not really...

    The Shadow: shoot left loop then inner loop at top. Shoot Khan Multiball start when it's lit.
    Medieval Madness: Shoot castle. Shoot for Castle Multiball when you get to Castle #3 or later.

    Lots of games can boil down to simple strategies, and lots of success can come from keeping it as simple as possible. Game tutorials help, too. Ball and feed control ends up being more important than strategy at the top, because all the players are generally working similar strategies; if you're not sure what to do, just watch someone play and copy theirs!

    #14 10 years ago

    I wish it were that simple, but when it comes to the new Stern games, not knowing what to shoot for really puts you at a disadvantage. Depending upon where you are you may or may not get a lot of cooperation. I've been in scenarios, especially in Texas where it's pretty much "every man for himself" and they aren't sharing what they know about the new games. Yea, you can kinda watch the players, but like when ACDC first came out, a few higher-level players were posting killer scores beyond everybody else because they knew something others didn't. In some cases they know of glitches in certain software versions and I've seen that exploited.

    #15 10 years ago
    Quoted from bkerins:

    Not really...
    The Shadow: shoot left loop then inner loop at top. Shoot Khan Multiball start when it's lit.
    Medieval Madness: Shoot castle. Shoot for Castle Multiball when you get to Castle #3 or later.

    Sorry I'm just not buying these strategies.

    #16 10 years ago
    Quoted from bkerins:

    Lots of games can boil down to simple strategies, and lots of success can come from keeping it as simple as possible.

    That's true in some cases. You can say generally the goal is to get multiball going and hit the jackpots. But some games, there are ways to add multipliers or increase the jackpots that if you don't know about the setup, it's a lot harder.

    And then there are tourney games like Jackbot for example, where there are clear tricks experienced players use to get farther in the game quicker (short-plunging, shooting the special shot to immediately light multiball or letting the ball drain). I know this one guy.. I forget his name *cough* where he showed some tricks on BSD to send the ball to the pop bumpers when Rats or Bats was initiated to rack up lots of points.

    In Dallas I ended up on a team with, if I remember correctly, either Trent Augustine or Donovan Stepp, and since we were on the same team he offered me some really cool insider advice on how to get farther in the game -- tricky stuff that hadn't occurred to me.

    However, I believe that you can probably work your way into the 200s in the IFPA rankings just by playing a lot of tournaments, but I think the top 30 are at a different level.

    This "bkerins" dude.. probably doesn't know what he's talking about *cough*

    #17 10 years ago

    To practice dead bounces at home - just play game after game and make it so you are only allowed to flip after a dead bounce unless it comes down an inlane. Any balls down the middle must be bounced before flipping. Its like when you play a game of pool and every shot must be a bank shot.

    Yeh your going to loose some balls down the middle but it will train your eye and mind to know after so many attempts. Angle and speed etc will get ingrained into your mind and it will no longer be a thought just a normal reaction.

    You can also play with one hand, which often results in you dead flipping because you know you wont be able to switch hands quick enough.

    Dont worry about points, this is training and it works. Guys don't go into the batting cages to see how far they can hit the ball.

    #18 10 years ago

    YES, playing one handed is how I learned to dead pass comfortably. Practicing for tournaments is different than playing for fun. Practice a certain skill until you get comfortable with it, then try to learn a new one. For me this is a slow process. I first learned how to dead pass, then post pass, then live catch. Now I'm working on drop catches and loop passes. For me, those skills I have listed are in order from easiest to hardest. It has taken several years of league play, tournaments, and practicing at home to get 1/2 way decent at those skills.

    Another thing at home is to set your games up difficult. And you need to set them where game re-start is not available. That forces you to try to make a good game out of a stinker, which is often the case in competition.

    And yes, yes, yes to watching tutorials and reading rulesheets. I forced myself to watch a tutorial, gameplay video, or read a rulesheet for ALL 200 games that were used at Pinburgh. That took months!

    #19 10 years ago
    Quoted from ahanson:

    How do you practice so when you only get one game you have a good enough one?
    I just got into the pinball hobby this year and I've started to join the local tournaments and will likely be doing leagues this fall too. I think my skills are progressing OK. I've been watching many of the pinball.org videos and just started to make my own rule sheets to help remember how to score more points and learn new machines. I can reach replay levels on many of the location machines now (usually my first goal) and have even made it on a few of the high score boards recently. My problem is even though I can get a good game in, I seem to have a problem putting it together in tournament play. I'm wondering if there are any strategies I could be trying to help improve my tournament play. I've setup my games at home with more sensitive tilt and open outlanes but I'm not sure how best to practice so that when I only get one game I do alright. Overall, I'm still just trying to improve my avg level of play in hopes that gets me higher.

    Which tournaments have you gone to locally? You should come to Mortimers (last Sunday of the month), Blainbrook (first Sunday and second Saturday of the month). Playing in them is the best way to get better and watching how other's play.

    #20 10 years ago

    Blainbrook only so far. I was in your semi group last Sat. I'm the guy that choked on DM with the impressive 9M or so. I think I'll be joining the leagues in Sept and starting to come to Morts this month.

    #21 10 years ago
    Quoted from bkerins:

    if you're not sure what to do, just watch someone play and copy theirs!

    That was my PAPA strategy I had a blast watching and learning though. Well worth the price of admission

    #22 10 years ago

    I asked Neil Shatz what I should do to play better and his response was work on my:

    1) live catches
    2) drop catches
    3) post passes

    I am not sure if he customized his advice to my play but I will do whatever he says I should. I also asked him if I should practice one handed and he says he never has. So I decided not to.

    If you want advice from me for tournaments, is work on being able to calm your mind at any time. If you are getting nervous during a tournament, take a moment, trap the ball and calm down. Try to calm down inbetween balls and games as well. That's just what I think will help me play better, everyone is different.

    #23 10 years ago
    Quoted from PinballHelp:

    This is the dilemma I wrestle with. I have really good flipper skills. But I don't have unlimited access to every game ever made, access to the latest games as soon as they come out, or hours upon hours to play every game out there. But the top-level pros do. And the sad reality is, you can only go so far on your skills. To cross to the "next level" you have to invest a huge amount of time into learning all the rulesets, software versions, and different play strategies that are exclusive to tournaments.

    You do have access to find all the rules. Use visual pinball / vpinmame, etc. Play on real tables you do have access too. Then you will know the rules AND have good ball control.

    #24 10 years ago
    Quoted from bkerins:

    if you're not sure what to do, just watch someone play and copy theirs!

    Nice. Also don't drain and shoot for the top of the table (get the ball back above the top lanes or whatever is towards the top)

    #25 10 years ago
    Quoted from ahanson:

    Blainbrook only so far. I was in your semi group last Sat. I'm the guy that choked on DM with the impressive 9M or so. I think I'll be joining the leagues in Sept and starting to come to Morts this month.

    Ahh, hey, good to see you here. Definitely come out to Morts, it's a great time. I run the tournament, so we try to keep it fun. League is cool too, I played last fall. You get to play a huge variety of games with a bunch of different people, so the experience is great.

    #26 10 years ago

    If in doubt - Shoot the blinking lights

    #27 10 years ago

    I'd agree with Bowen here - once you have a handle on the major skills, someone can boil a game strategy down for you in a few sentences and you'll be fine in competition as long as you execute.

    Quoted from PinballHelp:

    I wish it were that simple, but when it comes to the new Stern games, not knowing what to shoot for really puts you at a disadvantage. Depending upon where you are you may or may not get a lot of cooperation. I've been in scenarios, especially in Texas where it's pretty much "every man for himself" and they aren't sharing what they know about the new games. Yea, you can kinda watch the players, but like when ACDC first came out, a few higher-level players were posting killer scores beyond everybody else because they knew something others didn't. In some cases they know of glitches in certain software versions and I've seen that exploited.

    #28 10 years ago
    Quoted from caylegeorge:

    I'd agree with Bowen here - once you have a handle on the major skills, someone can boil a game strategy down for you in a few sentences and you'll be fine in competition as long as you execute.

    I agree as well, but once you have the major skills down, it becomes a question of what to shoot for? As soon as you are able to catch and pass the ball from flipper to flipper, then what? You have to know the ruleset. Every game has something different. For example, on Dr. Who if you are playing a multi-player game, and the first player locks his balls, you have to make a different shot to lock yours. That's not always apparent, and watching the other player may not help because on your turn you might have to do something different to achieve the same results. You can have the best ball control in the world, but if you don't know what to shoot for, you can't win.

    IMO, another key element, is to know which shots are "dangerous". This varies from game-to-game, but I've learned from competing that strategies for competition differ from strategies in normal play. On older machines, especially EMs, I've learned that in many cases, there's more points sending the ball to the upper playfield than hitting the more obvious drop targets. On some games, it's worth risking tilt because there is no significant end-of-ball bonus, but on others, you definitely don't want to tilt because the end-of-ball bonus is a huge part of the score. You have to know the game once you have the basic skills down.

    #29 10 years ago

    Watch this. Learn this. Love this.

    #30 10 years ago
    Quoted from ahanson:

    I'm still working on patience. It's very hard to trust a dead flipper bounce as it just seems counter intuitive and I don't think I do enough of it. I also notice many of my drains are due to anxious slap saves that I probably didn't need to try resulting in the ball draining between the flippers.
    I see myself as more of a precision style player than an on the fly flow style at the moment although my multiball play is generally a flail fest, working on that though for tournaments.
    I also have started playing multi-player games while practicing to get used to having to wait for other players in between balls.
    Oh and nerves seem to get me every time.
    The pros just make it look so easy.

    Play a few games one-handed. The bounce passes will just happen.

    #31 10 years ago
    Quoted from PinballHelp:

    Personally, I hate to say it, but while ball control is of paramount importance, what separates the winners from the losers is knowledge of the game they're playing. And that's really time consuming. The top-level players know every nuance in a game, which shots to go for, even down to the software versions and any special idiosyncrasies the game version may have.

    Knowing every little detail certainly gives you an edge, but for the vast majority of competitors it's not the difference between winning and losing. The first thing on any game is to figure out a basic strategy to score quick, safe points. Watch the PAPA tutorial on STTNG for an example of this using the Picard Maneuver.

    At league night last week, I noticed the lock shot was super hard, but the beta ramp was very easy and I could hold the right flipper up on the return, bop it over and repeat. I quickly racked up 500M just shooting it over and over. At 50M per shot, there was no reason to go for anything else. Unfortunately I didn't notice this until the 3rd ball...

    Big tournaments like PAPA will often set up the game to neuter such strategies. For example, at Pinburgh, the Earthshaker left flipper had a little shim below the rubber that causes the ball to bounce. It was to intentionally make the center ramp extremely difficult because that's the safest way to score a lot of points. Or on Addams, they put big post rubbers on the electric chair. That's where knowledge of the game starts to come into play, because you need to go for plan B or C.

    But if you're playing in league or a local tourney, you can generally assume your plan A strategy will carry you.

    #32 10 years ago

    I've done this as well. With videos circulating on how to "game" various machines in competition, I've been known to alter the settings and playfield layout to nullify some of those strategies, so that ultimately good pinball skills become more important.

    I'd also agree with you, Bowen and others that ultimately it comes down to 90% basic skill and straightforward gameplay, and often times if you're hell-bent on playing a strategy, the determination to hit a certain sequence of targets + random bad luck can screw up your score worse than if you randomly batted the ball around. I try to play as simply as possible, but when I have a choice, being familiar with the game really makes a difference.

    #33 10 years ago

    I like how Bowen seemed to change his strategy during Papa 16 livestreaming. On Medieval Madness it seemed like whatever everyone was doing wasn't working correctly since the scores were low. He seemed to change to aiming for the castle repeatedly and scored a lot and pulled out a win out of a game off to a bad start. So what I mean is you need to constantly adapt whatever pre-planned strategies to what works on the table in front of you, based on shots that are working.

    #34 10 years ago
    Quoted from jonnyo:

    Watch this. Learn this. Love this.
    » YouTube video

    Wow! Those were some very advanced techniques! I guess he'll be doing a Pinball.37 video soon! Funny how I was unable to find a Leo Daniels in the WPPR.

    #35 10 years ago

    Leo is truly a world champion video game .... .... and pinball player. Leo's work may have been the primary motivation for the PAPA tutorials.

    At PAPA 16, and usually playing Medieval, my plan is "get 2 castles first, then get the third castle open, then ... profit?" I pretty much stick to this plan no matter what happens, and followed it in all 3 finals rounds. I did notice other players were having trouble with the ramps, and I lost a ball shooting for a ramp in the first round; further, I was able to shoot the Castle lock on the first try, which is rare -- it was basically in the same position as the AFM lock.

    Based on this the strategy became "get 2 castles, open the 3rd, then get Castle multiball, using it to shoot castles", and it worked out okay. Josh Sharpe pointed out the more precise version -- from the left flipper, shoot castle; from the right flipper, shoot lock.

    #36 10 years ago

    Listen to the pros here! Cayle and Bowen are bang on. Learn the basic skills, and continue to practice them. Watch LOTS of videos. You'll notice on almost every game, all the players have the same strategy. It's interesting to see how the players used different skills (ie. on the fly, lots of catching and control play, or a combination of both) to accomplish the same strategy.

    Personally I like a game set up slightly easier when I'm learning it. This allows for longer ball times and allows you to really see all of the features that you might not see with shorter ball times. After I have a good feel for the game/strategy/rules, I like it to play the way it will in a tournament. This means extra balls off, outlanes open, tilt super tight, kickbacks not lit, ball save reduced or eliminated all together and the steepest pitch that still allows the game to play the way it is supposed to. If you set your games up this way, they will kick your ass unless you are playing in control and making your shots. With the tilt set tight, you will also learn to use the right force at the right time to keep the ball in play.

    Another resource I find extremely valuable is Pinball Arcade. I have this on my ipad and ps3 and I think it's a nice tool if you don't have exposure to some of the games they offer. To me it's much easier than the real thing, and again you get to see lots of the features. This won't really help you with flipper skills because I find fancy catches difficult on the ipad, but certainly it will help with game knowledge. You are also offered "goals" to complete that might not align with the main scoring strategy so you can learn most of the ins and outs.

    #37 10 years ago

    I really like pinball arcade too. Though, I find it more difficult than the real thing. I can't seem to do a live catch and sometimes the physics just get a little weird and nudging sometimes isn't so subtle. That said, it's probably the closest I've seen to the real thing.

    Over all, I find it is an extremely valuable too for learning tables. Two of the competition tables I had to play were available for download.

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