If all goes well MMR LE will be delivered late October. I'm in on MMR own AFM and like AFM much better than MB, but still my pick is MB next which I said earlier in this thread. I'd practically bet $$$ on it.

Just to comment on something that was said earlier.

BBB was still not a major discussion at PPS when I was in the room. Other titles seemed to have a higher priority.

BBB would probably not be a big deal on the hardware platform. You can put what ever you want on it. Its the playfield parts that would be the problem. This includes lamp boards and other assemblies. It's not a Williams game. We have talked about WMS parts being used, and in theory that would work. I am looking at some of the kicker assemblies now and comparing them to WMS units. Many of you that are technically able already know there isn't much difference. All of this is moot if the licensing is an issue.

Everything would have to be re-sourced again and who knows if the original parts manufacturers are still out there. Not all of the tooling is there, so either it did not survive, or hasn't been relocated yet, (according to an earlier discussion that I had with Rick).

I have seen a few of the tube dancers and enclosures in the recent acquisition of parts but that's about it so far. Rick has asked for parts request inquiries from the Pinside group and I would take that seriously if you want spares.

Don't put a lot of brain power into CCr or BBBr. I really think these are not going to happen.

Pinside is a discussion group and my comment was completely appropriate. My guess is you found my statement to be weird only because it’s contrary to the herd mentality of wishful thinkers.

What's the odds Mr68 owns a BBB remade by Gene?

How many MB or AFM are you going to sell in France at $8k (which will translate into nearly 8000 euros, after taking into account taxes and transport) knowing that they can be found for 3-5000 euros here??
I guess the same price range can be found in Italy and Spain and Portugal, perhaps a bit more expensive in Holland and Germany.
What would be the european market for these remades? 25 games?
MB has a good reputation for ops, but you will have to be very convincing to make them spend 3,000 euros more than for a Stern Pro...

Yes I do.

What are the odds that Pimp77 does not own a BBB? Should your opinions be tainted somehow because of this?

Now feel free to rush to judgment based on this single shred of evidence as to what my motivation is. This is exactly what Pinsider's did and have been doing since the news of the Illinois Pinball sale. If you guys are happy believing in circumstantial evidence and ignoring contrary information, then I say rock on. - But I'm allowed to play in the sandbox also.

I don't know if BBBr will be made or not. But its my strong opinion that it will not and there is plenty of evidence to support my position. And until there's an official announcement, it aint happening.

Its amazing how people with a differing opinion from the majority will be attacked around here.

Cut that figure down to about 1/3 and you probably have an accurate count of who will actually complete the purchase.

It's called Mob rule. Tyranny of the majority. Look it up. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ochlocracy

nobody was attacking the guy. i found his response weird because he was answering a different question than the poll was asking, and another guy correctly guessed the guy's agenda. he seems to have a very thin skin about the whole thing, and kind of a persecution complex.

also how is it "tyranny of the majority" when the "no way jose" poll option is the one that's winning anyway?

*shrug* Good luck with all of that.

Your response to his post is 3 times as weird as what he wrote.

If it wasn't discussed, sounds like you arn't listening to your customer base

I have no interest in buying one
But man do I want to play a BBB

Ready & waiting...

image.jpg

Regarding how easy it would be to even manufacture BBB, I'd like to tell you why I believe that much of BBB's building blocks were scattered like leaves on a windy day, long before RIck bought what was left of IPB.

* Before Rick bought IPB, Gene had his famous barn-sale years ago. A lot of then-active vendors swooped in and grabbed what they could. That was a good thing as suddenly sites like Marco had a lot of old NOS Bly/Wms stuff to sell. In addition, a whole hell of a lot, basically everything else, got put into containers and shipped to Mark @ pinballspareparts.com. We know Mark is the only place to go for NOS Capcom stuff. He is also the only place I know to get NOS slingshot assys for CV, and since I just completed a CV restore, I'm glad as hell he still had some since the design for that part, which was unique to the game, was horrible. In order to make a Capcom BBB, I suppose Rick would have to make a deal for as many of the leftover Capcom assemblies as possible.

It's true Gene had no idea of what-all he received from Williams. Mike Chestnut once told me that during the barn sale he and James (pinball inc) literally spent hours simply cracking open crates, drums and palates of stuff that Gene had never touched in the years since he got the stuff.

Also at the barn event, some stuff was literally just tossed out. Why do you think there are Airborne translites coming out of the woodwork? I heard they were literally tossing the ones they couldn't give away into the dumpster. What's my point? Well... the easiest way to put is that anyone who thinks Rick got a turnkey Capcom manufacturing capability is very naive.

* Someone posited that Rick got all the molds that Gene had. Perhaps not. We know that some molds went down under. A while back a pinsider posted pics of skids worth of the stuff. He was from either NZ or AU, I don't recall. But, I have skin in the game since I've been looking for an NOS ramp for AB for like five years. Maybe some day somebody will unearth either the mold, or a stash of NOS ramps. Ha Ha. A guy can dream, can't he?

* Evidently at some point James picked up a lot of Gene's IPB engineering drawings. Does anyone else recall the table or two that he had on exhibit at MGC a few years ago? Lots of blueprints. Some were for sale. As a matter of fact, a few weeks ago a couple made it to eBay:

(paste this into your address bar, the pinside conversion doesn't work)
cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=161372719888
cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=161372717640

So I'm asking myself, if the blueprints for BBB aren't in Rick's possession, how are they going to engineer the game? It's not like Gene's run resulted in a big archive of AutoCAD/SolidWorks data files. Gene didn't even do e-mail.

As far as the game code itself, I'm with the rest of the folks that think that emulation would be the solution there. For those that asked about playing BBB on their tablets, well that isn't available, but BBB is available on VirtualPin and any decent PC that can run Win7 will suffice. Have at it, FWIW.

Finally, in anticipation, I'll remind folks that yes I own a BBB, and no I didn't pay $20K for it, and no I really don't care if Rick makes another run. I'm a Capcom fan and in fact I do hope they remake BBB, just so more people who want to own one, can. If I had a choice, I'd rather see Rick do KingPin, just because the world could always use another Mark Ritchie pin and I've played KP a few times and it has a lot of potential. I do think an update would make it better than the protos are currently, and that would probably make me a buyer.

it seems like a sizable chunk of the entire pinball universe at one point ran through gene, and then just stopped like the worlds worst clogged pipe, which subsequently exploded. seems like peices are still being picked up and the odor aint gone yet.

I have bbb on my virtualpin and get to play it whenever I want. I know I will never see it in life let alone play one; hell I've only played mm once in real life. I think people hype bbb because of its rarity, game play isn't that great. I find myself playing AFM, tspp or lotr; all three better games then bbb. IMHO. I'm a noob player and have never had a problem with incomplete game code, I just don't pinball play that well, I have the odd great game, but I play for fun not for points or competition.

I really like the art package of bbb, and I like the DMD animations. It's a fun game, but there are other games that are more fun. I'd prefer a remake of cc, or afm over a bbb.

Agreed.

I didn't pay $20K for mine either. Nor would I as I personally cant justify that price. Comparatively I also quit chasing MM once they hit 6K back in the day. Even the MMr at 8K I'm passing on. MM is a fun game but I just don't see the value there. But more power to those that can justify it.

Again, I don't believe BBBr will be made but another run would mean a ready supply of parts for my game. And my friend Greg would finally own one.

Maybe this is a dumb question, but wouldn't PPS just need someone to loan them an original BBB and they could use those parts to remanufacture the majority of it?

Nope...because they left the last big show with one. They dont need to borrow anything ; )

Rick bought one last year.

Easier said than done. Gene did that and took a long time.

LTG : )™

I never said it would be easy I was just responding to the guy who said all the blue prints and NOS parts were not included in the deal. I don't think that's a deal breaker.

It's not easy, or cheap, or quick to build BBB, but in my opinion, it could be the only other game they could get $8K for.

I understand what you said.

Redoing a lot of BBB would add to the cost. Gene easily lost 2 or 3 grand on each one. He did get them done. So I don't know if it could be done for $8K, maybe more.

There are others that could be done at the $8K mark. KP, MB, CC, CV. Brand new ones of those would be hot.

And no way of knowing their plans for the future. Once rolling maybe some lower prices ?

LTG : )™

If you listen to the podcast on Pinball News at around 2008. Gene spoke in length about the trouble it was to source parts/find manufacturers that made the stuff for the Capcom protos. And how a lot of the parts were from job shops due to the low amount needed.
PPS would be ordering in bulk so would be cheaper. And they might have the contacts to make it. Even call on TOG for advice.

Look the posdcast up. Really quite interesting

One thing for sure. PPS would do a better job at getting the parts.

LTG : )™

As far as what others are interested in, BBB, CC, and Kingpin seem like they'd be the top sellers. However I personally don't care all too much for those games and would be more interested in MB or AFM (at less than $8,000, though).

Gene says a lot of things.

Those numbers change every time he tells the story.

I don't think anyone ever believed those numbers.

But, it is a great piece of pinball folklore "I lost $900,000 building those machines, but I did it because I love pinball....."

We may never know the exact numbers. I believe he lost a lot. Just because of the way he operates.

LTG : )™

Sadly, proven.

BBB, KP. Is everyone serious!!! Medieval Madness is popular / fun / and a proven market. Cactus Canyon is fun too, BBB is adult-themed (that's all-who cares), KP is bland (buy Sopranos). When a game is announced to be remade; it takes 2 years+ for the poor guys who financed these remakes to get their game. In the mean time, we would get WOZ, Star Trek, ACDC, ..etc. Why would anyone buy a BBB for 8k/9k/10k remake when there's 2015/16 NEW titles available. I hope BBB drops to 3k while a BBBr is made so these companies can quit the bull and step up for some new titles. Fueling these silly Capcom games astonishes me. Next time somebody has the chance to play a Star Trek / WOZ / ACDC - please play a BBB or better yet watch a You Tube video of KP.
I have played BBB and KP, these are ok pins, if they were 3k right now, nobody would give a crap about them. I truly hope they remake a BBB - then all of you will hurt the company moreso with the hype. 1000 + BBBs for 10k each. 1 year after release - 4k each used; nobody will buy this game b/c its, "just ok" and it wont be rare anymore.... Hulk LE is, "just ok"... how much is it selling for right now?..... C'mon, spark a little interest in New titles opposed to old expensive ones that are expensive just b/c they're super limited. Medieval Madness had 4000 available (proven market) for 16k a few years ago; wasn't a rare title. just saying.
PPS - get creative, make something new and give Stern and JJP a reason to step up. I don't think Stern or JJP find threat in MM or better yet; front row seats to a "Capcom" remake... I hope PPS does it, finally we will get some new titles thereafter and pinball will have a competitive market.
I just want to see Hobbit / Game of Thrones / And something NEW to choose from. Why Why Why BBB and KP... ughh.

why are you so bitter?

I don't believe they ever intended to do that. no idea if it would ever change after they remake a lot of titles.

Your opinion. And I respect it is right for you.

KP has always been my favorite pin. Always will be. I'd love to have one again.

LTG : )™

I thought with the chineese knockoff market making everything under the sun, it would be easy to remanufacture the old components. There are probably very many company's in china that specialize in ripping any machine apart to recreate all of its pieces. They have made a knockoff ford f-150, how much harder could a pinball machine be?
image.jpg

Sorry but my consideration is:

1) BBB its a great Pin!!! but isnt a WMS pin!
2) made repro of BBB with WMS parts isnt a real BBB feedback when play.
3) if this operation its good for the MMR ... for copy one CAPCOM need copy ALL not only the design of playfield.

Williams thought BBB was so good, they actually bought the rights from Capcom to reproduce it.

Williams did make one before Neil got rid of the pinball division.

Had the pinball division stayed open, the only BBB you would know would be a Williams machine.

I don't mean to be bitter. And I know BBB and KP are fun, all machines are fun, but why make 1000 of them for big dollars, we're in 2014, isn't Batman vs Superman coming out in 2 years, Mad Max, Guardians 2,... There's good material there to work with. Eventually BBB will drop in price, people who really want it will get one. No need to want one just b/c 200 people are asking 20k for it now; if they were asking 5k for it - BBB wouldn't be appealing. I would be happy with a BBB Clone or something. Family Guy -Shrek that thing.
I know there's no arguing with you guys and I will stand back, but be careful what you wish for, BBBr could end the remakes everyone is hoping to see, if there will even be anymore. Lets see what happens with MMr. This MM remake is putting stress on people, buyers and distributors in 1 way or another; once the product arrives /positives/negatives come out and the Used listings go up; will most likely predict future remakes. Honestly, CC would probably be next...sigh.

Then post them in the Stern or JJP threads for wanting up coming titles. Or any of the smaller company threads.

Posting in a PPS thread that concerns remakes, won't get your ideas to market.

LTG : )™

I'd say any licensed theme would be no go. Monster bash with universal studios name on it-- never happen. BBB and KP. No way, too much red tape. Original themes is what I'd expect to see remade, CC and AFM are perfect examples.

I hope it gets cancelled.

Every Superman move sucks .

Every new pinball machine seems to stress out Pinside completely.

For MB, they were able to repro the pinball toys a couple years ago so based on that I would expect that MBR is not out of the question.

Could PPS not find out who made the parts for the BBB remakes by Gene and just use the same companies? I suspect that those companies could probably make those parts in the volumes needed by PPS, should they get a lot of people interested in purchasing BBB.

Who pissed in your Weaties this morning?

It's highly unlikely you will see an original title from PPS for years, if ever. They own the WMS rights, so expect to see remakes of popular WMS pins. Period.

Don't like the idea? Buy a pin from Stern, JJP, or one of the boutique guys like Spooky.

But you are barking up the wrong tree in this thread.

Wild ass guesses and speculation are fun.20000 Addams were built in the past for a reason and a couple thousand more are coming.Get in line.Behind me.

They could try. 18 years have passed. Companies might not exist. Tooling might not exist.

Companies don't wait around for years waiting for a parts order. They move on.

LTG : )™

Couldn't agree more.

PPS isn't a pinball manufacturer. The are a licensee (licensor?). So there is zero chance of them releasing an unlicensed (original) theme.

Exactly.

They are the licensee for Williams, and they OWN the pinball division for Capcom.