(Topic ID: 98940)

PPS / MMR communication - it's NOT about the coin mechs (or is it?)

By jfh

5 years ago

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  • 700 posts
  • 130 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by TigerLaw
  • Topic is favorited by 7 Pinsiders


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#11 5 years ago
Quoted from jalpert:

Nobody is perfect. No company is perfect. No new product release is perfect. It's only $20.

God I love Straw Man arguments!

#70 5 years ago
Quoted from TaylorVA:

It's a MM. Pretty sure people know what a MM is, and when you have someone like Roger Sharp say that the game plays like the original it tells most people all they want to know.


You don't think Roger Sharp is biased? You think he'd really come out and say that MMr doesn't play like the original?

#75 5 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

I guarantee you, if this issue is just too much to handle and such a bait-n-switch, I bet you anything that you could get a full refund + deposit. Have you asked? Just get a refund…be done with it.

I bet you are right. He'd be happy to make a refund or two.

But what if 30 people thought it was enough of an issue to want a refund? 50? 100? At some point PPS is going to rely on their non-refundable deposit date having passed and deny a refund of the deposit.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say whether the OP could get a refund or not really isn't the point.

#78 5 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

No, he was working for Williams at that time. And game play had to meet his approval, for Williams. No skin off his hind parts if he didn't okay it and Planetary and Chicago Gaming had to start over. He got paid the same either way. And I suspect he wanted to protect his employers interests, not someone else's.
LTG : )™

And what do you think would happen if he said "no, this is no good, it doesn't play enough like the original, I won't sign off on this"?

#84 5 years ago
Quoted from phishrace:

Roger is a player. And his last name is spelled Sharpe. When you make comments like this, it makes me think you don't know your pinball history. If you knew anything at all about Roger, you wouldn't question his judgement. He's not a shill for anyone and has never been one in the past.
Go ahead and bitch about missing coin mechs, but don't be talking shit about Roger. Him and Tim Arnold are the closest things to untouchables that this hobby has.

Oh stop.

I didn't say anything negative about him at all. I'm talking "shit" about Roger? Seriously?

Untouchable? Good lord!

#94 5 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

Roger Sharpe's opinion of the game is now moot since hundreds of people have played the same prototypes at shows, and all the reviews were the same. I don't get why this is even brought up?

I agree. And virtually all of the reviews have been positive. People that I know and trust have played the protos and had very good things to say, some of whom have a very critical eye. Hopefully the production ones will play the same, and there won't be any (other) negative surprises.

#175 5 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

lol, of course you did.
Very relevant as folks who buy games vs bitchy non buyers defines what you call fanboys better. Rick has also done a great job communicating on this in the other thread.

Most of the time people who are buyers are more likely to give the company that they preordered from a pass. They need to feel good about their decision to pre-order a game. It's just human nature.

Obviously this isn't always the case, and we have also seen plenty of examples of buyers (current or those who bailed) who have been plenty critical.

#178 5 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

That's really my point . You shell out the bucks you tend to get fanboyish as big duke calls it.

Yep, makes sense.

#276 5 years ago
Quoted from taylor34:

It's a little hard to complain about the manufacturer being 'cheap' when they're including a $200 shaker motor that the original didn't have plus offering custom trim. Those aren't things that happen when you're trying to 'cheap' out. At least in my opinion.

The original didn't cost $8k either so the comparison in terms of the coin mechs not being there is meaningless

#278 5 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

In 2013 the original in "brand new" condition (restored) cost $12-20k. Coin mechs schmoin schmecks.

Did they have coin mechs?

#286 5 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Maybe, maybe not. They're not on route so who cares.

Then why make the comparison to begin with?

Also it's disingenuous to say that those restored $20k MM's may not have had coin mechs.

#296 5 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Why do I keep replying to these threads….while I personally don't care about the mechs, this is Rick's mess….I'll let him deal with it….but seriously, if you guys are going to endlessly cry about this - PLEASE - call whoever you bought it from and demand a refund. Just get out and be done with it. You just won't be happy with this game.

You keep saying this, but it is missing the point.

Why is it wrong to voice concerns over the missing coin mechs, whether it means you actually want a refund or not or even if you haven't even purchased the pin? It's like the WoZ threads where owners say you can't have an opinion on WoZ or JJP if you haven't bought the pin.

The fact is, this is an issue to many people, even if it isn't an issue to you. And even if you don't care because you never plan on putting a coin through the slot anyway, there are still reasons to have at least some concern.

It doesn't make a lot of sense to me to sell an $8k coin operated pinball machine without the ability to accept coins out of the box. Is this indicative of "cheapening out"? Why did it take them so long to figure out that the coin mechs weren't going to be included? Too difficult to implement? Why tell buyers about this after the refund period had expired?

If coin mechs aren't included, why include a coin box? Seems pretty easy to justify not including a coin box if you aren't going to include coin mechs. Etc.

Again, these are just concerns. Whether they rise to the level of "I want my money back" is doubtful for most, I would think. But that doesn't mean that questions and concerns about this issue shouldn't be discussed.

Edit: I missed Borygard's post quoted by Pintucky below. He said it more succinctly.

#302 5 years ago
Quoted from jalpert:

So, after all is said and done, what's the point of this thread? Are we all supposed to be inspired to cancel our orders? Are we all supposed to feel and admit we were ripped off? Are we supposed to form a mob and demand coin mechs?

Good lord.

If the OP hasn't cancelled his order for MMr, why in the world would you interpret his thread as being an attempt to get others to cancel their orders?

"Form a mob"?

Hyperbole much?

#305 5 years ago
Quoted from jalpert:

So, answer the question then. He's really mad, he's down on the project, he doesn't trust Rick or care for his communication. Why buy? That's all I was asking.

No, that's not "all you were asking".

You made a bunch of other comments about convincing people to cancel their orders, forming a mob, etc. Remember?

#308 5 years ago
Quoted from jalpert:

Comments usually end in periods, questions end with question marks. I was genuinely wondering, those were the best ideas I had.
I made no comments about that at all.


#356 5 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

Or do what I did and just bail on this wishy washy project. If they won't give you your money back, we'll get RobT involved.

Leave me out of this mess!

#431 5 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Good lord. I think it was dumb to not include the coin mechs, the "would make it complicated for international markets" thing is a cop out. It's just a bad PR move on Chicago Gaming's part and I'm sure Rick wishes they hadn't done it. But it's really, really not a big deal. Why are we blowing this up to this level?

If you agree that it was "dumb" to not include coin mechs (ON A COIN OPERATED MACHINE), and that Rick's explanation about it making it too complicated for international markets was nothing more than a "cop out", and it's a "bad PR move on Chicago Gaming's part"....how can you go on to say that it's "really, really not a big deal"?

Quoted from o-din:

That's where RobT comes in.

Why you, I oughta....!!!

#433 5 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Installing both coin mechs will take less time than it did for me to write this post, it's easy and not a big deal.

I see that you either type extremely slow, or you have never installed coin mechs.

#434 5 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Because it's not! It's $20 and two minutes of time for the handful of people that will even care! Yes, it was dumb, it's created waaaaay more ill will than it was worth just stick in some damn mechs, even if US only and tell everyone else to swap them. Stupid PR move.
But it doesn't render the machine useless, unplayable, or hard to "fix". It's simply a minor issue.

I think you nailed the issue in your post.

It truly is a matter of degree. There is lots of hyperbole by both sides on this issue, and you engaged in that hyperbole (or straw man argument) yourself (nobody is saying it renders the machine useless or unplayable).

#518 5 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Just pure insanity lately…
» YouTube video

How is that pure insanity?

He posted something that was 100% accurate in every way. He even toned it down by using the term "with minor adaptation". And he even used the word "technically", which kind of acknowledges that it isn't a huge deal, and he isn't arguing that the pin is completely gimped.

All things considered, it's one of the more even handed responses in the entire thread. Certainly didn't seem deserving of an eye roll, or claim of pure insanity.

If you keep going like this, you are going to be known as the PanzerFreak of MMr.

#522 5 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

True, but still trying to justify the false accusation that it's not a coin-operated machine. Can we end this charade? It's a f'ing coin-operated machine. End of story. I don't see how being rational makes me Panzerfreak.
BTW, based on the many PM's I've received about this issue - the rest of the rational people are just putting the "Coin Mechers" on ignore and wiping their hands of it. Should I just do that? Is that how it is going to be around here? People go nuts, rational voices run & zip-it?

Dude, I think the point was that his post *was* rational!

And you called it insane.

#537 5 years ago
Quoted from JAXPinball:

RobT gets it... I can't wait to get my coin operated "capable" MMR

#547 5 years ago
Quoted from mof:

awesome scene.

That's one I'd call iconic.

#587 5 years ago
Quoted from TaylorVA:

well that promise was broken

#649 5 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

What's the last pinball project that's BEEN on schedule??

Stern releases pins pretty much on schedule.

Wish they'd do the same with code updates, which have no schedule at all.

#651 5 years ago
Quoted from Ed209:

Doesn't Stern just announce the next big thing when it's pretty much on the production line?


Which makes it fairly easy to stay on schedule.

#680 5 years ago
Quoted from MrBally:

Yes, which is the way Bally, the real Bally, Williams, Gottlieb and Chicago Coin did it for about sixty years and each making hundreds of thousands of machines.


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