(Topic ID: 98940)

PPS / MMR communication - it's NOT about the coin mechs (or is it?)


By jfh

5 years ago



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  • Latest reply 5 years ago by TigerLaw
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#10 5 years ago
Quoted from jfh:

"Hey guys, we underestimated what was required to efficiently install the proper coin mechs during the production of MMR, so we believe it's best for the project that machines ship without them. PPS will send a set of coin mechs at no charge to the registered owner of a machine if they would like them. In addition, we would like to offer [something/discount coupon/whatever] to all owners as our thanks for your understanding on what we hope is a minor inconvenience."

EXACTLY!!! When those of us started posting our concerns about this coin mech issue, I figured Rick might not enjoy seeing so many customers showing their disappointment. But instead, for bringing the subject up, we got pilloried not only by a handful on the thread but by Rick himself.

You did a good job jth explaining this. Those were my sentiments exactly!!!
Thanks,
Mike

#12 5 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

Personally I think coin mechs are stupid.

Quoted from jalpert:

It's only $20.

Oh hell! And 'they' follow . . . . the ones who bitched about our discussion on the other thread are on here now. PROOF they just like stirring pot!

#19 5 years ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

I just hope everyone that ordered the game ends up happy with it and does not end up finding out there are a lot of things that were done with cheap alternative/facsimile parts or omissions thereof.

Agree! This coin mech thing helped trigger those kinds of feelings as you stated.

Loved your one word reply on 'our' WOZ forum. Just read it! Agree on that one too!
Mike in Kentucky

#28 5 years ago

Saw the picture. I'll probably look like that in about 35 years! I'm the youngest looking 66 year old you'll ever see. But you DID 'get me' on that one! Got a chuckle out of it. And you can thank your old buddy pezpunk for keying me in on your personality, thus me not crying 'foul' over that picture of the old goat!!! You ain't as mean at heart as you may sound at times. So, I got a good laugh out of that.

Quoted from Hwawonyu:

By this I mean they are outdated. Bill receptors, tokens or better yet credit and debit readers make more sense for routing a game.

I have never considered this. You are right, especially for operators. Coins would not work so well for them. I guess because of MY AGE . . . I have only thought of 'coins'.

-1
#184 5 years ago
Quoted from rx3:

PPS has gone out of their way to communicate with the pinball community more than any other pinball company ever has.

If you are talking about Stern, then yes. But when JJP started the WOZ project, he offered loads of information and set up a private forum for all of us who bought the game. We were constantly in the loop.

#202 5 years ago
Quoted from jfh:

sending mechs/coupons to those that were upset

IF . . . according to the naysayers . . . there are only 4 or 5 people on the forum who wanted the coin mechs, then this would have been a very plausible solution. If that was the case, Rick could have easily PM'd us to send him our mailing addresses and he would send out complimentary coin mechs. After all, that cost would be a mere drop in the bucket compared to putting them in every pin. Would have been a perfect PR solution and restored confidence.

Of course, there are a LOT more people disappointed by this than has been publicly revealed, so methinks Rick didn't actually believe what the bashers were saying about how only a handful of people were complaining about this, and didn't want to send out maybe hundreds of mechs!

#218 5 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

I wonder if it will be these.

Good catch, o-din!

I would say you just showed us where the initial idea to NOT put coin mechs in the pins came about! So . . . he was looking for a coin mech source and then decided just a week or so later that these pins didn't need them. Something is rotten in Denmark!!!

#229 5 years ago
Quoted from Ed209:

Just play this video in reverse for tutorial...

Thanks for posting this. I knew what consists of a coin mech, just had never taken one out before or adjusted one.
Mike

#230 5 years ago
Quoted from jfh:

Makes me wonder if the reason there are no coin mechs shipping with MMR is more "no one spec'ed them in the BOM until the last minute"

I think you got it right there. I can not imagine creating such a special project and purposefully leaving this out.

10
#297 5 years ago
Quoted from Borygard:

This is the first I'm hearing about no coin mechs in MMr.

My first thought is if it's "too hard" to put a coin much in a coin operated machine, what else is "too hard" to do to get this game out the door? Cost cutting, cost savings, bad planning, whatever.

I bought a coin operated pinball machine, if it can't accept coins from the factory, I *will* be getting a refund. I don't want a game that was pushed out the door with stuff not included because it was "too hard".

Man, I'm glad you weighed in on this, Rob. When an expert like you believes the coin mechs should have come with the pin, then that validates MY arguments I've been making. Don't know if I told you, but I bought one of these. I have been pissed over the 'principle' of the matter of leaving them out and we have to buy our own. I paid 8 thousand big bucks for a coin operated machine, and Rick and his blind 'followers' have done a lot of taunting over how cheesy we are who want them to come in the game. Like WE are the idiots asking for too much! I've heard the $20 spiel of how "cheap and easy it is to buy one yourself if you want it so bad", until I'm sick of it. When you pay big money for a pin like that, you shouldn't have to shell out more money just to have it operate like a genuine coin operated machine!

I'm THRILLED to see you 'on my side' in this . . . or, at least having the same viewpoint.

I've got to go now. I'm trying to wire up a 24" diameter hot air balloon to my WOZ pin that will rise to the top of my 25 foot ceiling when the ball kills out all the lights on the balloon on the PF. I decided to hook this up to my abandoned 2nd knocker still inside the cabinet and powering it through the primary knocker, plus wired to the 'Start' Button to make the big Hot Air balloon launch. I drilled a hole in the left side of my cabinet and hooked a coat hanger to the knocker lugs hoping this will power the big balloon to rise to the ceiling traveling a catgut string that is invisible. I'll let you know if I blow any fuses or transistors. But I think this will work!!!
Mike
Mike

#298 5 years ago
Quoted from Firebaall:

I wonder how long before mechs are optional on new Stern games. With this kind of money being left uncontested by the customers, you know they've noticed.

That's been my fear. When Stern and PPS see that we, the buyers, will just roll over and not contest this, then they will take this liberty and soon there will be more trimming off here and there. That's what I wish the 'opposition' on this thread would take into consideration.

#300 5 years ago
Quoted from taylor34:

It's a little hard to complain about the manufacturer being 'cheap' when they're including a $200 shaker motor that the original didn't have plus offering custom trim. Those aren't things that happen when you're trying to 'cheap' out. At least in my opinion.

Have to disagree. Not when you are shelling out $8,000 for an LE pin that is SUPPOSED to have all these add-ons. You are letting him off too easy. While he might be doing all us MM lovers a 'favor' by reproducing them, he is in this to make a profit, and there appears there's plenty of room to add in a standard coin mech.

#304 5 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

I bet if you called Jack and complained about this he would in fact . . . [and] send you some coin mechs to make you happy.

I actually am planning on getting in touch with Jack and asking him to throw in the coin mech(s). He'll either tell me he will be glad to do it, or tell me with what little profit margin he has on the pin, he can't possibly do it. And I'll just have to live with that. It is not HIS obligation to do this though. It belongs with PPS.

11
#309 5 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Again, these are just concerns. Whether they rise to the level of "I want my money back" is doubtful for most, I would think. But that doesn't mean that questions and concerns about this issue shouldn't be discussed.

Exacty Rob. I don't want my money back. I want the pin. If I get screwed out of two coin mechs, then I'll just have to grin and bear it because I don't want to back out on owning one of these. BUT . . . I do have the right to call their hand on playing such a dirty trick on us buyers. Announcing this cut AFTER the freeze was not kosher. And even if they did it before the freeze, I'd still stay 'in', but I'd be contesting this with every fiber of my being.

There is a very simple conclusion to reach in this fiasco, and that is: IT IS JUST NOT RIGHT! It really puts a bad taste in my mouth with someone who could pull such a stunt. I paid for the damned things and I shouldn't have to pay again!!! And it will certainly be "buyer beware" if or when I consider buying a future pin from them. I'll learn from my own naivete. On the next pin, I will request a complete itemized sheet on everything that is coming on the new pin so I can assess what is being cut and have it in writing!!! A 'contract' of sorts, so they are bound to what they said we are getting. That's been a problem all along. We knew very little of their plans on what shortcuts they would be taking. We took them at face value to receive a fully functional coin operated machine, and that didn't happen.

#310 5 years ago
Quoted from jalpert:

So, after all is said and done, what's the point of this thread? Are we all supposed to be inspired to cancel our orders? Are we all supposed to feel and admit we were ripped off? Are we supposed to form a mob and demand coin mechs?

jalpert . . . you make some good points. The only reason I continue to whip this horse is in hoping Rick reads this and sees how we feel we have been violated. The 'protesters' are growing. Surely, he sees this. I hope he clues in on how much PR damage this has caused and what it is doing to his image and that of PPS.

As a businessman, if I saw this much clamoring from my customer base, I'd be closely examining my own conscience, for I certainly would not feel very good if I saw so much negative feedback from something I did to my 'trusting' customers. That's our only hope: Reinforcing to him how much we didn't like this and how unfair it was. We might not change his mind on this one, but maybe in the future he will be more forthright in spelling out what to expect when we buy a pin.

The only way you can change things is to voice your opinion and hope it is seen/heard. If that was to happen to me in my business, I'd have to cave in and do something to regain my customer's respect. And I'd probably eat the cost of something equivalent to this coin mech fiasco to continue to have the faith of my customers. I'd want them to think highly of me FIRST, and THEN continue buying from me. Sometimes honor is more important than money.

I don't want to cancel my order. I want the pin. I just have to live with the outcome.

#311 5 years ago

FYI . . . to answer some concerns voiced on here, this was posted on the PPS site:

More MMR FAQ 7/25/14 …

Q: Does MMR come with a printed manual?
A: Yes

Q: Will there be available printed schematics?
A: Yes

Q: Will the game include wing bolt nuts for securing the head on location?
A: Yes

Q: Will there be a 110 service outlet for soldering or lights?
A: Yes, same as original

Q: How will the game be updated?
A: Customer will boot off Mirco SD card. System will automatically update onboard flash. Updates will be available on the web to load onto SD card.

Q: Does the coin door have a high power lockout?
A: Yes, this is a UL/CE requirement

Q: Original had helpful scrolling text in the test menu when you hit the start button, telling fuse type and number, connector locations, etc – will MMR?
A: It will display original information. We will add a document explaining how to translate this from original system to the MMR system.

Q: Will test reports (credit dot) still work as it does on original MM?
A: Yes

Q: How are boards below the play field protected against debris?
A: Driver boards are backed by Formex (modern replacement for fishpaper, power supply PCB is located in the metal case in the front right of the cabinet with on/off switch fuse, etc.

#327 5 years ago

Sorry . . . this didn't come out the way I thought it would. You'll have to read between the lines. I have responded to each of your concerns. Thanks, Mike

Quoted from Rarehero:

It's not wrong to voice concerns over the missing coin mechs.

I haven't agree with your postings much at all, avoided talking with you, but SOME of what you say here warrants comments:

-It's wrong to come up with conspiracies like "what ELSE will be missing!?"

Well. . . we had this one totally unexpected thing thrown at us. Why not something else? I actually thought of this as an impending problem of more surprises. I think it is a legitimate concern.

-It's wrong to infer the game is incapable of taking coins as though it's a Zizzle or Costco Stern

You are correct here. A few folks thought this meant no coin door. Hopefully, once one gets the coin mechs installed the pin will function correctly.

-It's wrong to keep bitching here if you haven't called Rick or your distributor to vent to the people who need to hear it.

Partially right. I am going to call my distributor. I have continued my rants on here in hopes that Rick sees them, plus the many more that are joining in on this thread expressing their outrage about it, and he starts 'thinking', and maybe comes up with a solution to appease the angry villagers. Momentum IS growing with the coin mech supporters posting on here. Surely, he will see it.

-It's wrong to keep pretend-peeping into Rick's bank account as though he's a dastardly villain rolling in coin-mech cash.

Well . .. this is a reasonably large amount of savings he is making. I'm not concerned with his bank account. But one has to wonder what was the real motive behind this. Was it truly an assembly line problem? Or, just an easy way to move the profit numbers up on the old ledger sheet.

Even though I don't personally care, it will agree that it was a bonehead move and backlash should have been expected. It would have been better for Rick to offer them for those who wanted them or needed them (operators). That way, everyone's happy. If the international mechs would have slowed down production, this keeps production speedy & lets people who need mechs get mechs.

The best thing you've said! Exactly the way I feel! A wrong move and an apparent easy one to resolve.

#418 5 years ago
Quoted from Borygard:

I'd recommend adding a remote skylight that opens on your ceiling that the balloon can go through. That way the neighbors know when you're playing. Connect the skylight to the Witch mech, and have it open and close when the Witch goes up and down.

Great idea! I'm gonna jump right on that!

#540 5 years ago
Quoted from tracelifter:

you didn't have to buy the turret at a discount.

Rolling on the floor laughing my ass off on THAT one!!!

#546 5 years ago

Great job on the Hitler video. At least he knows the difference between a coin mech and a coin door!
Mike

#594 5 years ago
Quoted from scott_freeman:

how were you informed? they have not contacted me.

I received an email and invoice with the DEMAND that I must pay in full by July 11, or my order would be cancelled and I would lose my deposit. If you haven't heard anything from JJP, you need to get in touch with them and explain the oversight of you not getting your payment notice. You don't want to lose your $1,000 deposit!

"Will we get our games in 2 weeks?"
Obviously not. I think we'll be lucky to get anything by Christmas.

#605 5 years ago
Quoted from tracelifter:

I don't understand why this preorder model isn't dead yet.

The only reason I rushed to order one of these was a pinball friend phoned me while I was on the road driving, and he told me there had been an announcement that ONLY 1,000 MM's would be reproduce by 'a company' and that they were going fast! He thought it was JJP. I got excited and got to thinking . . . . (worst thing I usually do!), and a few minutes later I got another call from him saying nearly all 1,000 had sold in the first 3 hours. With that, I put in an urgent call to JJP and asked could I still get on the list. Was told to mail a quick Bank Check and I'd get one of the 'last few left' depending if my check beat others who have phoned and committed. I raced to my bank and mailed the check immediately. I didn't want to lose out!

THEN . . . days or a week or so later, I find out there there will be an unlimited supply of standard MM's to be made AFTER the initial release of the LE's. THAT busted my bubble REAL FAST! I would probably not have ordered an LE and waited until the Standards came out and put my own shaker motor on.

I don't want to participate in any pre-order thing AGAIN!!!!
Mike in Kentucky

#610 5 years ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

why didn't you just cancel your order when the Standards were announced

I just didn't have the heart to call Jack and tell him I changed my mind. Plus, I believe this is my last major foray into buying new pins. I'm kinda get up in years and planning on keeping this MM for a long, long time and slowly sell off my other pins. I bit the bullet! And . . . . kept on thinking how nice and different the LE version would be. I'm okay with this. I definitely want it now even though it will be shy of two coin mechs! Ha.
Mike in Kentucky

#615 5 years ago
Quoted from tracelifter:

or me it is The Stockade in Crestline.

BRAVO to you!!! From a Vet . . . .
Mike

10
#660 5 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

remember I'm in the "I don't care" category

I'm not trying to be crude or rude here, but you constantly say things like this but you have stayed with this thread and pestered the hell out of everyone trying to 'talk' on here. It is obvious you don't think coin mechs are necessary. OK. I get it. For YOU that is! There are only about 5 people on this thread who jump in with negative and insulting garbage, while the rest of us have conversation about what we deem are problems.

For the life of me, I do not know why you even have desire to keep up your stabs at everyone. You are a very unpleasant human being, to put it mildly. Why don't you and a couple of the friends of your ilk just go off to some other thread and annoy the hell out of THOSE guys?!

I can only draw one conclusion. You are bouncing in and out of here purely for the joy of amusing yourself and hoping you can rile others who are engaged in discourse about a problem WE see! It is your 'game' of one-up-manship'. Hate filled challenges. YOU don't see the lack of coin mechs as a problem. You have nothing else to prove or say. We know your stance. So, why don't you just go away and let us all engage in decent 'talk' here and go play with your bucket of coin mechs that you don't need?!

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